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Published: June 10, 2008
Transvestite nuns, public nudity, a person dressed as a phallus
San Francisco’s Most Holy Redeemer parish will participate again this year in the city’s “Gay Pride Weekend”
San Francisco’s Pride Weekend will once again include the participation of the AIDS Support Group at Most Holy Redeemer parish in San Francisco’s Castro District.
An announcement in the parish’s June 1 bulletin sought volunteers to help the support group staff a “major Beverage Booth in Civic Center (next to the main stage)” on Saturday, June 28, the first day of the homosexual “Pride Weekend.”
 This is not the first year either Most Holy Redeemer or its AIDS Support Group has participated in “Pride Weekend.” In previous years, members of Most Holy Redeemer, carrying a parish banner, have marched in the Pride Parade – an event that features floats and marchers celebrating everything from homosexual marriage to bisexuality to polyamory. Footage of the 2005 and 2006 parades show, among parade participants, examples of public nudity (women with bared breasts, men with buttocks showing), a person dressed as a phallus, and a contingent of the transvestite group the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. The footage also shows contingents from both Most Holy Redeemer and St. Agnes parish (a San Francisco church which, on its web site, calls itself: “Inclusive – Diverse – Jesuit.”).
But Most Holy Redeemer’s part in San Francisco’s “gay pride” goes much deeper. Jesuit Fr. Donal Godfrey, speaking at an October 2006 prayer service at Most Holy Redeemer, noted how the parish was the place where the rainbow flag “was first invented... for use at San Francisco’s Gay Pride in 1978.”
The theme of this year’s “Pride Weekend” will be “United by Pride, Bound for Equality,” and will feature Cyndi Lauper and Charo as celebrity grand marshals.
Priding itself as an “inclusive” parish, Most Holy Redeemer has rented its Ellard Hall facility to groups like the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, and the homosexual Inter-Club Fund of San Francisco, which, last February, held its 42nd Annual Motorcycle and Leather Community Awards at the hall. The parish sponsored a booth at the homosexual Castro Street Fair on Oct. 7, 2007 – the same day San Francisco’s Archbishop George Niederauer said Mass at the parish and gave communion to two Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence in full drag. (Niederauer later denied knowing they were Indulgence Sisters, and apologized.) A week earlier, the parish had hosted an unveiling of the 2008 Desperate Diva calendar, featuring pictures of transvestites.
As noted in the June 8 parish bulletin, Most Holy Redeemer advertises in the Bay Area Reporter. The Reporter calls itself “San Francisco's oldest and largest local newspaper of record serving the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities. Founded in 1971, B.A.R. is regarded for its original writing covering news and entertainment relevant to our lives.”
Except for banning the use of the Ellard Hall by the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, the San Francisco archdiocese has taken no public disciplinary action against Most Holy Redeemer or its pastor, Fr. Stephen Meriwether.
Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:11 AM By Lisa T.
To get a better idea of what is allowed in the Diocese of SF go to the below web link. ****************************************
http://www.sanfrancisco-catholic.com/index.htm
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:34 AM By Grisha
In SF there are two main events for AIDS services agencies to publicize their work, AIDS WALK SF and the Pride Festival after the parade. One outfit that my wife and I contribute to is PAWS (Pets are Wonderful Support) which helps homebound ill persons (AIDS and everything else) with keeping and maintaining their pets. Would anyone like to join us for a walk thru of the festival on Saturday? In the crowd we might be able to find the SPI and chat w/ them about why they do what they do. I'm sure Molly Mc Kay, in her wedding dress, will be happy to talk about why she supports gay marriage. If nudity offends you I wouldn't be too concerned. Last year we only saw a few topless women (not counting moms who were sitting on the grass modestly breast feeding their babies) and two beefy guys in thongs who spent most of their time posing for photos with straight women. Other than that, folks will be generally fully clothed. Expect top see a lot of kids and dogs. As the article points out the MHR AIDS Support Group will have a booth as will a number of churches and synagogues. Wear a hat and comfortable shoes. If you really want to see "Leather Alley" you'll have to stay over and do it on your own as it opens only on Sunday. We can head over for my favorite restaurant, in all the world, Maxs' Opera cafe afterwards for a snack or cocktail. Let me know if you're interested. ~ Grisha
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:36 AM By Chuck Anziulewicz
Would it make you any more supportive of the Gay community if all the men participating in these events wore sportcoats and ties, and all the women wore skirts and sensible shoes? NO? I didn't think so. Fact is, Gay pride parades have always had an irreverent, "Mardi Gras" atmosphere. Sorry if that sticks in your craw.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:17 AM By J
If I remember correctly, our Blessed Lord was often seen eating and drinking in the company of "tax-collectors" and prostitutes. While I am sure our Lord preached to them the message of repentance, He also was just "present" among them, doing very human things as well. Could not MHR's presence at a Gay Pride parade by an occasion of evangelization? While the past action(s) of having the "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" at the parish either for entertainment or Liturgy was a very BIG mistake on Fr. Meriwether's part, I think that participating in the Gay Pride parade shows the world that the Catholic Church, the true Church of Jesus Christ, is truly Catholic, and goes to preach the Gospel wherever it is needed. And, trust me... the Gay Pride contingency doesn't always look favorably on Catholics and for a Catholic presence at such an event takes courage.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 6:17 AM By J
If I remember correctly, our Blessed Lord was often seen eating and drinking in the company of "tax-collectors" and prostitutes. While I am sure our Lord preached to them the message of repentance, He also was just "present" among them, doing very human things as well. Could not MHR's presence at a Gay Pride parade by an occasion of evangelization? While the past action(s) of having the "Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence" at the parish either for entertainment or Liturgy was a very BIG mistake on Fr. Meriwether's part, I think that participating in the Gay Pride parade shows the world that the Catholic Church, the true Church of Jesus Christ, is truly Catholic, and goes to preach the Gospel wherever it is needed. And, trust me... the Gay Pride contingency doesn't always look favorably on Catholics and for a Catholic presence at such an event takes courage.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:14 AM By Cyrus Johnson
PSALM 73 * Surely God is good to Israel, to those who are pure in heart. * But as for me, my feet had almost slipped; I had nearly lost my foothold. * For I envied the arrogant when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. * They have no struggles; their bodies are healthy and strong. * They are free from the burdens common to man; they are not plagued by human ills. * Therefore pride is their necklace; they clothe themselves with violence. * From their callous hearts comes iniquity; the evil conceits of their minds know no limits. * They scoff, and speak with malice; in their arrogance they threaten oppression. * Their mouths lay claim to heaven, and their tongues take possession of the earth.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:35 AM By Doorman
Dear J,
If the parish of 'Most Holy Redeemer', had a record and reputation for calling men who are trapped in the active homosexual lifestyle, that would be a completely different thing. Certainly, the Church is called to preach the good News of Jesus Christ that sin (including the sexual sin of homosexual acts), can be overcome by his grace, and a life of true disinterested human relationships (disinterested meaning, no seaking for personal gain, carnal, material or otherwise). The problem is, this parish has the exact opposite reputation. One in which the gay 'Lifestyle' and homosexual acts are, if not promoted, they are certainly enabled. If Jesus was in San Francisco during the gay 'Pride' event, he might go to preach repentance and turning from the sinful lifestyle of homosexual carnal indulgence. He most definitely would dine with all sorts of sinners, probably including sexually active homosexuals. His reason for doing this would be to call them to repentance and telling them to 'go, and sin no more'. As he tells each of us during confession. Don't forget though, that he also told his disciples that if they went to a town preaching the good news of repentance and forgiveness of our sins, and they were rejected, that they were to leave that town and shake the dirt from their feet. Sadly, that is the mostly likely reaction from attendee's at the 'Gay Pride' event to a message of repentance and forgiveness. That does not bode well for the state of their eternal souls. I pray for their conversion to a life of chastity and true selfless love, free of the bonds of sexual perversion and indulgence.
In Christ
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:44 AM By Elizabeth
But our Lord WOULD NEVER CONDON such activities....
And neither should His Church!!!!
If people from that Parish want to participate, they should NOT be holding banners that say they are representing MOST HOLY REDEEMER PARISH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Many prayers needed.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:54 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Grisha, Chuck and J were johnnies-on-the-spot this morning with their pro-sodomite rhetoric. They must really love CalCatholic for giving them this forum to promote the sodomite life-style. Allow me to clarify a few points here: There is plenty of nudity at the "San Francisco Lesbian, Gay, Bi-Sexual, Transgender Pride Parade". Sure the men bare their "buttocks" - and every other part of their bodies when it suits them, certain parts adorned with "c--k rings", or various piercings. Simulated (and even real) sex is easy to find. Anti-Christian signs and symbols are an integral part of the parade, and the numerous parties that go with
"Pride" weekend. For example, a live-action "float" that was titled "One Nation under God", with Uncle Sam being sodomized by God the Father. The display was led by a "Boy Scout" in uniform and the crown cheered wildly in appreciation with every movement of the figures. Drugs are everywhere, as is booze. Cops are everywhere too, to "protect" the sodomites from "straights". Of course, cops, firemen, emergency medical technicians, government officials at all levels, and anti-Christ churchmen show their "pride" in the sodomite lifestyle by marching in their vestments. Holy Redeemer and St. Agnes staff and parishioners, and the thousands of people, including young children who watch the parade? Victims of bishops and archbishops who have failed to admonish the sinners who embrace the works of the devil. The millstone will be their reward.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:35 AM By Tom P.
Yes, victims of bishops and archbishops who themselves are said to engage in the same perverted activities in their rectories and chanceries. Isn't it about time to stop ordaining queers to the priesthood?
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:37 AM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
Doesn't it perhaps bother you that Pride Weekend promotes immorality as if it were natural and good? Or is it that you think homosexuality is a natural orientation and that homosexual acts are not immoral? I've asked this direct question of you before -- a number of times before -- and have never gotten an answer, or, at least, a straight answer (no pun intended). Will this time be different, I wonder?
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:37 AM By Fr. M.P.
What the homosexual propagandists always conveniently suppress is what Jesus said to those in sin when He met them: go and sin no more. He didn't make it proud for people to commit or promote mortal sin, which is deadly to a soul. Do you all remember those parts too? Pride is the main deadly sin, remember? But the only sin to a relativist is someone saying that the mortal sinner shouldn't be doing evil. I'm OK, your OK, as the modern saying goes, or be PC.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 9:45 AM By Weeorphan
If Jesus were here, he would be working great miracles and preaching repentance to them all. His Church should be doing the same. Let their banner read: :Homosexuals, go and sin no more! "
Now that would take real courage and true grit.
It won't, because their Holy Redeemer Church needs the money from hall rents. You cannot serve two masters but that parish is sure trying.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 10:11 AM By Grisha
Gee Laurette I'm surprised we haven't run into each other at the parade and festival. You're obviously a lot more observant than I am.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:06 AM By Grisha
Christopher ~ As I believe I've indicated before, I suspect God, in his infinite wisdom, which we can not fully understand, decided to make some of his children (1.5% to 10% depending on who you listen to,) attracted to the same gender rather than the opposite one. I'll leave it to others to argue if that's "natural". I adhere to the teaching of the Church as described in Sections 2357, 8 and 9 of the Catechism with the following comments 1) I don't fully understand the concept of "disordered" as used. Is it arguing that acts are disordered, that inclinations are disordered or the people who have the inclinations are disordered? or if people with inclinations who then act on them are disordered? 2) I believe a lot of Catholics ignore the teaching in 2358 and commit, or excuse, grave acts against charity as a result. 3) It wouldn't surprise me if a future edition of the catechism adds a passage about homosexuality similar to that in 2352 which begins "To form an equitable judgement about the subjects moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action ...."
PRETEND THERE IS A NEW PARAGRAPH HERE.
As for SF Pride, it has a lot which is immoral and a lot which is good. The stuff that Laurette wrote about above is less and less each year and the things I've described as well as groups like the MHR AIDS ministry are increasing. IMHO filming the MHR contingent in the parade, then splicing in float three blocks down with naked guys on it, and then back to the MHR people is dishonest journalism (If one can even call it that) and at least approaches violating the 8th Commandment.
PRETEND THERE IS A NEW PARAGRAPH HERE
Getting back to your original question, yes some of the activity bothers me. That's why I I don't visit "Leather Alley." suppose it's like a lot of the action movies I watch. Yes they're entertainment. Often they have a message I like, but the formulastic graphic violence bothers me. Hey, can you make it up here on the 28th? I'll throw in a tour of some of our historic Churches afterwards.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:06 AM By LauretteElsberry
Grisha. It is not so much a matter of being observant, as it is of telling the OBJECTIVE truth.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:19 AM By June V
I am a third generation San Francisco Native Daughter. I am ashamed of my city and the people who run it. I no longer tell people that I am a San Francisco native, I just say I am third generation Californian. When even the church in the city condones and is blind to what goes on what hope is there except to pray to the Blessed Mother and ask her to ask her Son to forgive us all.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:31 AM By Grisha
Weeorphan: The image of Jesus walking through the crowd at City Hall Plaza curing AIDS paitients is delightful!
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:01 PM By Maurice
This is the biggest collection of bigots anywhere. Al that is missing are the hoods and burning crosses.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:28 PM By Fr. J
The parish has no business doing anything but praying for the degenerates at the parade. Homosexuals show their true colors in these marches. If they actually showed live on TV what was going on the homosexual lobby would have a very tough time selling their propaganda. Anyone taking a child to this event should have that child taken away for exposing them to such perversion. No one is as bigoted as a homosexual. In Canada they are already prosecuting Christians for their faith. Soon they will be throwing us to the lions, again.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:49 PM By Joe
Jesus said, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am with them."
The MHR contingent will be participating in this parade in the Lord's name.
Therefore, Jesus WILL BE PARTICIPATING in this year's parade!!!
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:02 PM By Nance
Now that action has finally been taken against Fr. Pflager of St. Sabina's...maybe we can hope and pray that disciplinary action will soon be taken on parishes such as this one as well!
Course...still praying for the complete removal of Fr. Pflager!
http://bloodtoiltearsandsweat.blogspot.com/
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:12 PM By Peter
Amen to that, Fr. J.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:12 PM By Grisha
Fr. J: What order are you from? All my interaction w/ priests (Dioceses of Fresno, LA and SF, Paulists and Jesuits) and nuns (CSJ's , Sisters of Loretto, BVM's, Mercy and Immaculate Heart) in the 60 years I've been a Catholic has lead me to believe that in ANY situation , just going off and praying in a corner without going forth good works was exactly the WRONG thing to do.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:28 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
The "disordered" refers to the inclinations the homosexual person has toward sexual union with members of the same sex. It refers primarily to a moral disorder -- namely, an inclination toward an act that is contrary to the intent of God is a disordered inclination. I suppose we could say the person with such a disorder is disordered, just as we say a man with unseeing eyes is blind. This is not to say that the person, if he does not act or intend to act on his inclination, is in sin or even sinful. It simply means he has something wrong with him -- a tendancy toward immoral acts. Something, really, that can be said of everyone, except Mary and Jesus. The problem with things like the Pride Parade is that they propose that acts which are morally wrong are morally right. That alone should elicit a strong objection. Thanks for your invitation -- but that weekend is a dinner honoring one of my favorite college professors, who is retiring. And besides, my wife, several of our children are travelling to Virginia to visit family. Just my eldest son and I will be at home. How would it look, think you, if I told my wife -- while you're gone, Augustin and I are going to San Francisco for Pride Weekend! Would would happen if that news hit the blogs?
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:59 PM By Rick Heintz
Wow... I'm seeing a bunch of hate on this site. Instead of thinking about what would jesus do, maybe we should wonder what whould jesus think about all this hate and judgment that his people are doing towards their fellow man.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:05 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, your consistent theme is to omit the reality of a considerable portion of both Scripture and other Magisterial documents. But suit yourself, and believe that you've just picked the right portion ... after all, isn't it what we believe that gets us into Heaven?
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:09 PM By Grisha
John L: If you refer to my 11:06 AM post, I'm saying that I read and believe the entire three linked passages and the OTHERS sometimes do the picking and choosing by ignoring 2358!
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 3:54 PM By Eileen
Why wouldn't MHR participate in the gay pride activities? A city submerged in sin whose spiritual leadership is Archbishop George Niederauer. Archbishop Neiderauer had no problem with the movie Brokeback Mountain. Archbishop Niederauer called it a very POWERFUL movie. Archbishop Niederauer said,"One of the lessons of Brokeback Mountain is the destructiveness of not being honest with yourself, and not being honest with other people, and not being faithful, trying to live a double life, and what it does to each of the lives you are trying to live." Is that a Freudian statement? Who is Archbishop George Niederauer being faithful to when he gives the Blessed Sacrament to transvestites who hate the Catholic Church and everything the Catholic Church represents and teaches? What message is this leader sending to the homosexual sisters of perpetual indulgence, that mock Our Lord by having names like Sister Edith My Flesh? Could there be any more destructive act than an Archbishop who provided this historical desecration of Our Lord? Is Archbishop Niederauer being honest with himself and other people by leading a double life? Archbishop Neiderauer spoke the truth when he said that living a double life brings destruction to the two different lives that you are trying to lead. If Archbishop Neiderauer can do these destructive acts, he can surely continue to look the other way for a MHR booth at the gay pride parade. Archbishop Niederauer could have been POWERFUL by standing up and defending the Blessed Sacrament with a historically defining teaching moment. Instead, it appears by his continued silence that Archbishop Niederauer is choosing to live the life that promotes unfaithfulness. It is never too late for courage while we have precious time left on this earth. Once God calls us to give an account of our faithfulness, the grace of obedience will be a "Powerful" factor.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:16 PM By Jimmy Mac
For all of you so quick to assume the worst about MHR, I suggest that you visit there for a few Sundays and experience for yourself the presence of Christ in the liturgy and the people in attendance. You would do that (hint particularly to you, "Fr" J) if you came with an attitude of objectivity and not just looking for something to say "Aha!" about. I can guarantee that the "Aha" factor resides in any parish or Christian denomination in this entire world.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:24 PM By Polneon
Hey, Rick,
Hate is a verb, not a noun... Try it some time, you'll like it.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:28 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, none of us, not even the most holy and illustrious, can say something that is absolutely the truth. Why? Because we cannot say something that is God. Thus, we only say things, which in themselves may be true, but which are not the whole truth. The best we can do is for a priest to consecrate the Eucharist, which is the absolute truth -- thus, someone in the state of uncertainty is heading either up or down on the road to truth, or has ventured off of it. There is some truth in each of us, even those who will ultimately be condemned. The devil used Scriptural truths to tempt Jesus, by means of distorting true words. Jesus replied, Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God: where does this leave us? Since Jesus also showed how the rulers of the Law needed something more than the law, more than quibbling over tidbits of truth, and He gave us Himself. We need to understand what it is to profane Him, and keep ourselves from doing so, while at the same time respecting God. Those who cannot get what sin is, nevertheless have some sense of it deep in them ... but they fight against it and the result is disrespect of God, Who is trying to save them from oblivion and from endangering others, such as children.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:49 PM By AnnCA
"Gay" = one of the four sins which cries out to Heaven for vengeance. "Pride" = the most deadly of the seven sins which caused the fall of Lucifer. No good can be spun from this ideology.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:50 PM By AnnCA
Nance, Fr. Pfleger is back at St. Sabina's with no restrictions.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 5:30 PM By Pax Christi
I'd caution those who accuse those of us who are speaking out against adultery, homosexual or otherwise, of being hateful to consider whether they're being obstinate in their blasphemies, which very well could be an unforgivable sin as Christ tells us in Matt. 12: 31-35. I don't see the actions of MHR as something that bears good fruit. What they should be doing rather than cavorting around with rainbow flags in apparent confirmation of their brethren's sins is to silently and somberly pray on the sidelines as an invitation to seek repentance and reconciliation, even if that subjects them to ridicule and abuse. Now THAT'S true love, courage and sacrifice. What good is it to let public sinners live and let live only to see them end up in eternal damnation? Therefore we need to make the tree good and its fruit good. Who's to say that Christ wouldn't have grabbed one of the many leather whips at the parade and chased out the MHR marchers for turning his church into a den of adulterers? It's clear that some, or many, of these marchers are willfully opposing the Spirit of God and the known truth. Those are the ones who are seldom or never converted, and therefore are never forgiven.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:18 PM By Daniel
Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 12:49 PM By Joe
Jesus said, "Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am with them." The MHR contingent will be participating in this parade in the Lord's name. Therefore, Jesus WILL BE PARTICIPATING in this year's parade!!!
Yes I am sure Jesus will be there with them in all their debauchery inspired regalia. You must be very Proud.
Your use of scripture is a joke. Was Jesus thrilled when he saw his Father's house being used as a market place?
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 7:40 PM By Louise
Anybody read the Sixth Commandment recently....look it up in the Catechism
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:36 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Grisha, you have twice mentioned Paragraph 2358 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. As you undoubtedly know, but which MANY others do not know, the second sentence of this paragraph was changed after it was determined that it had been a terribly incorrect translation (to put it kindly). That original sentence read: "They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial". In 1997 Pope John Paul II promulated a number of Catechism corrections. Among them was the change of sentence two to: "This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial". You do mention the word "disordered", but it is not totally honest to casually refer to paragraph 2358 without giving the correction so that the reader is assured of having the correct version. Regarding the oft-quoted 10% as one of the estimates of the number of the population which is "gay", that figure has been totally debunked. It was an offspring of the twisted, sick mind of Alfred Kinsey whose source of subjects to study were jail inmates and others who were not scientifically selected. (Kinsey himself was totally perverted, even experimenting sexually on babies)
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:40 PM By Jim
Jesus met with sinners to forgive those who asked for forgiveness, not to give approval of immoral lifestyles. His message for those who asked for forgiveness was always, I forgive you, go and sin no more.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 8:56 PM By Salvatore G.
The only thing for me to do, for this Show of Sins, is to pray the Mother of Fatima Rosary.
This mega Show is full of poor lost ( Sheeps ). They do not warrant the time of day for their SLOW DESTRUCTION OF OUR CHURCH COMMUNITIES AND NATION.
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Posted Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:15 PM By karyn
What a scandal! This is NOT what the Roman Catholic Church represents. Do these people from the 'parish' even have a basic sense of decency and shame? Are they not afraid of Hell or angering Our Beloved Lord? How can they bear crucifying Our Lord again and again?
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 12:05 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Heintz, and others, we know exactly what Jesus would do because he taught us to "admonish the sinner". Of course you don't want to hear that! Ever hear of the sins of willful ignorance?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:05 AM By Grisha
Laurette ~ I've never been one to argue the percentage of gay people in the human family or specifically in our own society. We Americans tend to be very private about our own sex lives (As for OTHERS sex lives, that's a different story.) My own parochial perspective is somewhat weighted because I live in San Francisco and an amazing number of my first cousins are gay and lesbian. I would speculate that over centuries, the percentage of homosexual people in the world population might vary from generation to generation, but I'm certainly not a demographer. If you reject the 10% estimate, do you have any sense of what the percentage might be?
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:17 AM By Fr. J
Grisha,
Fine. Then the parish can go and protest the march. Carry signs calling them to repent.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:25 AM By Grisha
Hey all: Here's a question about non-gay marriage. Does anyone know if there is a formal restriction on a Catholic wedding being held outside of a Church? I'm thinking here about a hotel facility or a resort. Thanks
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:06 AM By Elizabeth
Grisha,
It is my understanding that you NEED SPECIAL PERMISSION to get married outside of the Church itself.
And i don't believe they approve too many.....
But, double check with your diocese.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:16 AM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, consider that the Catholic wedding Sacrament is effected by the couple ... the Priest and church building are purposed to bear witness to the marriage. That is why it is a Wedding Mass. It is a formal affair with the full participation of the Church. Now, when you throw it together in the hotel lobby, what good is that? The couple needs as much emersion in the graces provided by God as possible. One of those graces is a Confessional for the attendees ... the more in a state of grace at the wedding, the better. The wedding is also a witness to Jesus Christ and the Institution of marriage ... so why would you want to low profile it? Don't say it is to avoid exposing shame in public. Marriage is a happy event, and the whole Church is supposed to be involved. Next you'll ask why not just have the wedding on the sidewalk outside a gay nightclub. You know what God told Abraham and Lot, don't you? Get the h... out of Dodge!!!
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:03 AM By Grisha
John L: In this case the bride and groom belong to parishes in different US diocises. The wedding is being put on by her grandparents who a live in South Baja. They want the wedding conducted by their priest, in Mexico, in Spanish. (Both the groom and bride are bilingual. Mrs. Grisha who is pretty fluent will whisper the translation in my ear) Getting the large group of guests (This is a conglomeration of big Irish, Mexican and Polish Catholic families) either down to grandparent's home (The local church is too small in any case) or up to LA presents problems. One solution their working on is everyone meet more or less midway at a resort on the Baja Pacific coast. Anyway - I'm sure that the grandparents and their priest will find a solution and that Father will be happy to hear anyone's confession before hand w/o the need for a confessional.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:23 AM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
According to a canon lawyer I know, a marriage outside or inside a church has to be approved by the pastor within whose parish the venue falls. So, the couple would have to find in what parish a non-church venue falls and consult the pastor. This effects not simply liceity but validity, as I understand it. Sometimes finding what parish a place falls in is difficult, because some dioceses don't mark out clear lines between parishes. For this reason (and others) it is better to get married in a parish church.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:38 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Grisha, nice segue to get the subject changed, and it gives you control of the site.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 1:33 PM By Grisha
Tell you what Laurette, I won't write in at all tomorrow and you can use the space I would have taken up.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:48 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Grisha, re tomorrow, lead me not into temptation.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:40 PM By Hugh
This reporter got this story wrong. As a member of MHR I can tell you that at the request of the archbishop, Most Holy Redeemer will not be marching in the parade. The MHR Aids Support Group will be manning a beverage booth on Saturday.
The decision of the Archbishop to ask MHR to not march as a parish was, in my opinion a mistake. MHR is a parish in the center of the Castro. Many of our members are gay, and by not allowing the parish to march (as a parish) the archbishop is attempting to silence our ministry. Once again the Catholic Church backs away from ministry to the outcast and marginalized.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:14 PM By Grisha
Hugh ~ While I agree with your disagreement w/ the AB on the "marching" (I thought you always rode a motorized cable car) I think the important thing is to have a Catholic presence at Pride. In the 1970's many of my gay family members were driven from the church by the very "hell, fire and brimstone" preaching we sometimes read here. What kind of beverages will you sell? Wine or just beer?
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:19 PM By Grisha
Laurette ~ It's a gift freely given. GO FOR IT! See you Friday.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:36 PM By gravey
From my view, the only ministry at MHR is leading poor souls into grave error by the promotion of the gay lifestyle. The good Archbishop should reassign the pastor of MHR and personally take over those duties.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:51 PM By John Andersen
In February, I provided information (with links) on the percent of the population that self-identifies as homosexual. The most acclaimed study was even used by the pro-LBGT advocates in the Lawrence vs State of Texas case before the Supreme Court. 2.8% of males and 1.4% of females self identify. I provided links with info on studies with ranges, and what is wrong with some of those studies. For the regulars on this site: Until other reliable, verifiable studies are available, it is misleading to use any other numbers.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:07 PM By Central Valley
Lifesite news is reporting the parish has been told by the Archbishop they may not particiapate in the sodomy march. CCD had a good wrte up in the lifesite posting. As I have said before, you would be suprised who reads this site. Thank you CCD for all you do, you assist the faithful when our sheperds don't.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:41 PM By Lisa T.
From Lifesite news*****************************************************
San Francisco Archdiocese Puts Kibosh on Church's Plans for Gay Pride Parade
SAN FRANCISCO, June 11, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The San Francisco Catholic parish that gave the homosexual movement its rainbow flag will have a new surprise in store at the upcoming annual gay pride weekend in San Francisco: they are not coming.
The San Francisco Catholic Archdiocese has asked Most Holy Redeemer Parish in the Castro district not to participate this year and the parish has so far agreed. *************************************************************
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08061110.html
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 10:27 AM By Hugh
Well, perhaps Lifesite news reads CalCatholic as I reported that MHR would not be marching as a parish yesterday. There are other portions of the story (mainly the reasons) which are also inaccurate but I will withhold that at this time because I do not want to get the Archbishop in trouble with the good Catholics who read this site.
Just remember, you should not believe everything that you read in these stories or in the comments to those stories. It is my opinion that CalCatholic and some of its regular posters display an inordinate interest in the goings on of the gay community and in Catholic gay ministry.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:36 AM By John L. Sillasen
Hugh, who are you to say it's "inordinate"? Is this just ignorance, or an outright defiance of God? In case it's just ignorance, let it be known that there is such a thing as the "Light shines in the darkness" ... you just can't hide.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:27 PM By ELIZABETH
ALLELUIA!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been praying for the Archbishop every day.
He HAS MUCH on his plate and perhaps with the new Bishop, Bishop Justice God is working through him.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 6:18 PM By James
Here is a powerful prayer we can all pray to stop this evil prideful sin from spreading to corrupt more souls and send them into the flames of eternal fire. We need Blessed Mother and the Holy Angels help. Say it a few times each day as it is very powerful against the devil. Prayer to the Queen of Heaven: August Queen of Heaven, Sovereign Mistress of the Angels, who didst receive from the beginning the mission and the power to crush the serpent's head, we beseech thee to send thy Holy Angels, that under Thy command and by Thy power they may pursue the evil spirits, encounter them on every side, resist their bold attacks, and drive them hence into the abyss of woe. Most Holy Mother, send Thy Angels to defend us and to drive the cruel enemy from us. All ye Holy Angels and Archangels, help and defend us. Amen. O good and tender Mother! Thou shalt ever be our love and our hope. Holy Angels and Archangels, keep and defend us. Amen. Imprimatur: Patrick Cardinal Hayes, Archbishop of NY, 5 Sept 1936
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 7:04 PM By gravey
Laurette Elsberry,
Thank you for the info re the new translation of paragraph 2358. I will immediately go out and get the revised translation. Grisha is fighting a battle we all face, looking into the eyes of friends and relatives and having to tell them the truth. I'm no scholar but Jesus does say that at some point we must walk away from our friends and families.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 8:43 PM By Lisa T.
Hugh,
It seems you are saying "good Catholics who read this site don't get your hopes up, the archbisop didn't do what he did for the reasons you think he did". I'm not holding my breath for anything, and I'm not disillusioned by the bishop's recent actions. If the archbishop really means business and believes that the pro-sodomistic activitivities at MHR were wrong he would close down that parish or at the least remove Fr. Meriwether and replace him with holy orthodox priests. The activities which have taken place at that place specifically in the basement (Ellard Hall) calls for a thorough disinfecting preferrably by a biowaste cleanup company followed by an excorcism of the buildings. Even after all that the new priest (s) (God help the holy priest who end up there alone) would have the uncomfortable and confrontational job of removing most if not all the active homosexuals from their ministry positions at MHR. In my opinion MHR needs to be closed down because I don't think the current shepherd of your diocese has the ability or the desire to make things right there.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 12:32 AM By John L. Sillasen
*** but Jesus does say that at some point we must walk away from our friends and families. *** You can simply not say anything about God in conversation with close ones who defy God. They will have to see the resemblance between you and Christ ... which is a significant challenge both to carry it out and to develop your love for others such that it pulls you closer to God. Christians are either hot or cold; either bringing on persecution or conversions.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 7:22 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Lisa T., you are right. MHR should be shut down, and if reopened should be reconsecrated. However, if Archbishop Niederauer is still in charge (sic), leave it closed as he is not capable of keeping it truly Catholic.
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Posted Sunday, June 15, 2008 9:49 PM By Anne
Fatihful Catholics, do you know how strange this conversion we are having with this person called Grishna, whom I thought was a woman, and I guess from what he/she says on this blog is a man.This is crazy! Do you really think he or she, whatever it is really wants the corrects answers about marriage in the Church. Come on! This person is a nut and should not even be on a Catholic blog.
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Posted Sunday, June 15, 2008 10:23 PM By Anne
A correction: I should have said, "with this person IS," in my last post. Still the conversation with Grishna must appear crazy to normal people just getting on this website out of curiousity. It took me awhile to catch on because I did not nor do not have the time to read everything. But it is clear now to me that he/she is just an instigator. For all we know, it could be Mayor Newsom himself.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 8:01 AM By Grisha
Anne ~ Let me take this opportunity assuage your anxieties about me. The "handle" I've selected for this forum is "Grisha", a Russian nickname, however if you want to call me "Grishna" that's OK. I am not Mayor Newsom. My gender is male and always has been. I have been married to a woman ~ unlike some of our Republican congressman, the same woman ~ for 38 years. I'm 60 years old. As far as my qualifications to be on a Catholic Blog, I was baptized and educated in the Diocese of Fresno under the tutelage of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet. I attend mass and receive the Sacraments at my local parish (It's not MHR) where I'm on the Finance Committee and help out with logistics and security from time to time. I think my participation here is at least as legitimate as ... say .. someone who will only attend an SSPX mass or the occasional Sedevacantist. . I don't think I'm a nut, but everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion on that. I really did appreciate he information on Canon Law about wedding venues, the wedding involved is my nephew's and it's a pretty big deal for the family. Anne ~ I hope the above information makes you feel better about me. May God be in our minds, upon on our lips and in our hearts during the coming week.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 9:16 AM By John L. Sillasen
I see Grisha as a devout Catholic who is in a situation where he is engaging those who are not. The consequences of this require rolling with the punches. But he stays in the ring and on his feet.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 9:43 AM By Anne
No, Grisha, it only makes me feel worse about you. Someone in such a high position in the Church thinking a so-called marriage between a man and a woman being all right. This is the last I will converse with you.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 10:29 AM By Peter
Grisha, the patience you display with this ignorant lot is truly a virtue . . .
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 10:43 AM By Anne
I am sorry, Grishna, it appears the wedding you are referring to is between a man and a woman. Some of your other posts have given me the impression that you approve of so-called marriages between two men or two women. Please clarify if you desire to do so.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 12:54 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha has the knack of rhetoric which holds off making an actual declaration against the Church; therefore, he does not speak in favor of sin. As Peter says, Grisha is a man of patience. And obviously he is a man who is extending what he has received from God to those who have not accepted the graces that we find so much to be desired. Is that not what evangelization is all about? Notice, too, that Grisha involves a lot of varying perspectives on a topic which itself involves a lot of souls, not all of whom are secured in the choir loft? And he has just declared his absolute position against abortion ... that is a big declaration.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 12:57 PM By Anne
I am sorry John and Grishna, I will butt out. I see now that Grishna is walking a tightrope, as we all, between not hating the sinner and trying to help them out of the behavior, but not approving the sin. Most of us are facing instances of this type of behavior (homosexuality), even in our own families, and it can get nerve racking. Although Grishna seems somewhat confused on certain things, I think his heart is in the right. place. I take back my "nut" and "it" statements. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 1:54 PM By Anne
Sorry for the misspelling of your name Grisha.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 1:57 PM By Grisha
Anne ~ Yes, my nephew will be marrying a woman. Thank you for the compliment, but I don't think going to a few meetings a year, ghostwriting a fundraising letter or two, moving tables and gently persuading the occasional psychotic person to scream obscenities outside, rather than inside, the Church during mass qualifies as a "high position." My position on all this gay marriage business's is that simple justice and the orderly operation of society would be best served by each state being able to establish civil unions and the federal government recognizing them. This is especially true when children are involved. I'd like marriage to remain between men and women. However, if we can't, as a nation, come together on civil unions (and it looks like we can't) I'll, somewhat reluctantly accept gay marriages as the only viable alternative. PS: Keep in mind that if the statistics John Anderson cites are correct, only about 2.1% of the population would even potentially be interested in marrying a person of the same gender.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 2:23 PM By John L. Sillasen
Anne, is your middle name, by any chance, "Typo Correction"? :) *** Grisha: a. We're assuming your nephew is a man. b. 2% out of the 2.1 (or 2.3) % figure seems to reside in the Castro district. c. Pyschotic babblers at Mass? Good grief, Grisha, those are the charismatics!!! If you'd exercise more patience, then one of them would eventually speak up in plain language and say what all the babble is about. d. If the homosexualists all "marry", then that'll keep them at home and not in the night spots ... I'm beginning to see the wisdom of it all.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 2:26 PM By eric
it would be nice if you used the correct term the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are not transvestites.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 3:28 PM By Carol
Dear Grisha,
Just a reminder; Jesus only walks into repentant lives and cures AIDS. Lest you not know that sexual diseases come to those in sexual sin.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 5:08 PM By Carl
John Anderson posted,“2.8% of males and 1.4% of females self identify” in a 1992 survey. However, it is worth noting that that survey actually collected information about homosexuality by three criteria (behavior, desire, and self-identification), not just self-identification alone. If the standard were any one of these three criteria, then about 10.1% of men and 8.6% of women could be reported as being homosexual. In addition, more than 20% of the eligible respondents chose not to participate in the survey. The sexual orientation of those persons and why they chose not to participate in that 1992 survey is not known.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 7:13 PM By Grisha
Carol: Might not Jesus curing an STD lead the curee to repentance? People get AIDS and other STD's from sexual sin and also from spouses a who have strayed, needlesticks, blood contamination and other causes. Why, why are so many people hung up on other peoples' sins, especally sexual sins, in this forum?
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 8:24 PM By John L. Sillasen
"Lies, damn lies, and statistics!" God eradicated Sodom and gomorrah and their satellite towns ... that population did not put much of a dent in the world population.
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Posted Monday, June 16, 2008 9:03 PM By Anne
Grisha, I just read in Meg Meeker, M.D.'s book, "Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters", that STD's are epidemic among teens. There are now over 25 different STD's. One married woman had a baby who kept having seizures. When tests were taken, the child had multiple holes in its brain from herpes. The father had contacted herpes before he married the woman and had never told her. She had no symtoms of the disease, but she had it never-the-less. He had tried to protect her during the supposed time it was catching, without telling her, but evidently it failed. Grisha, there were only about two venereal diseases when we were young now there are twelve times that many. If that is not cause for worrying about sexual behavior, I do not know what is. Grisha, Jesus is not going to "magically" heal those with such diseases if they do not behave. For every cure, another disease sooner or later pops up. By God's grace, I have been fortunate enough not to have ever had such a disease.
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Posted Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:37 AM By Grisha
Anne ~ That was exactly my point in the post above. These diseases can be contracted through promiscuous sexual behavior but also through perfectly blameless means. Twice over the past years I've had an employee get stuck with a used hypodermic needle. The AIDS testing takes about a year. It was not real fun to sit in the ER and hear the doctor tell a 31 year old Catholic man that he and his wife really shouldn't have sex, of if they did, use condoms, until the final results were in.
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Posted Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:21 AM By Erica
"God eradicated Sodom and gomorrah and their satellite towns." The gays had moved elsewhere. They too didn't like all those inhospitable heterosexuals.
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Posted Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:09 PM By Anne
Sorry, Erica, but "the straw that broke the camel's back" in the Genesis story was when the men of Sodom made the quite serious mistake of trying to seduce two angels who happened to be in the form of mortal men. And don't tell me about Lot's willingness to offer his daughter in their place. For all we know, Lot was just saying that trying to buy time because he feared these men would force their way into his house. Never-the-less, God did not approve of any of it since the angels saved Lot's familiy, including his daughter, and destroyed everyone else, including the seducers. You can twist the story alll you want, but blue is not red, nor red blue, and black is not white, nor white black.
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Posted Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:18 PM By Anne
By the way, the innocent do suffer with the guilty as the Church teaches, but it also teaches that when we die some people go to heaven, some go to purgatory and some go to helllllllo. and the series of "l's" are meant to be there to soften it a bit.
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Posted Tuesday, June 17, 2008 6:41 PM By Erica
Anne, those men of Sodom were heterosexual. They were inhospitable. Their attempt to force themselves upon the angel was just another demonstration of it. The gays were long gone already, having been driven out by the inhospitable heterosexuals. It went to rubble after that.
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Posted Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:37 PM By simone dubois
If inhospitality drove the homosexuals out of Sodom and Gommorah then we heterosexual homophobes should have been able to drive them out in the same way today. Sadly, we haven't been successful so this theory doesn't hold water Eric. Sorry but thats a ridiculas idea. It's like saying you were mean to me so I'm leaving my home, my family, my job and going someplace else, boohoo. Surely, you can't seriously promote such a theory. And obviously you weren't there so? Pulling our leg, right?
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Posted Tuesday, July 08, 2008 9:49 AM By Joey
So I ask you, what are you SO scared about. What you are saying is that you don't like the way gay catholics worship god; which is in deed saying you don't like gays. I get a kick out of how many "christians' are really UN CHRIST LIKE. Christ ministered to EVERYONE and didn't shun. You and other right wing catholics are about choosing whom you can minister to and discriminating against others. Yes, that's Christian alright.
You wonder why the Catholic Church is losing members and doesn't have enough priests or nuns. - well it is because it doesn't evolve.
As far as the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence go, they are truly nuns in every fashion by spreading love and joy. Yes, sometimes they do it in a manner, but I have never once seen then shun people like you do. So tell me who is the real Christian here?
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:01 PM By Katherine O'Brien
All I know is that Jesus told us to judge no one,"judge not lest you be judged says the Lord,", and he was angry at those "religious" people who did judge and exclude others who did not fit their moral criteria.
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