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Published: March 7, 2008
Voting, married priests, liturgical dance and yoga
Cardinal Mahony answers questions in live chat session following Religious Education Congress
 As he does almost every year, Cardinal Roger Mahony participated in an online chat “live from the main Exhibit Hall at the Religious Education Congress in Anaheim, Calif.,” as the Los Angeles archdiocese’s Religious Education Congress web site put it. This year’s live chat occurred on Feb. 29.
During the chat session, Cardinal Mahony received a wide variety of questions. Leonel Martinez asked the cardinal what the Church teaches on voting. Some claim, said Martinez, “that Catholics cannot, in good conscience, vote for an elected official who supports abortion rights, gay marriage or stem-cell research. Others say Catholic voters must weigh all the issues and cast their ballots accordingly.”
“A really great question!” Mahony replied. “Let's face it: there is no candidate, nor will there ever be one, who supports our Catholic beliefs 100%. Therefore, we must study the issues, be informed on Catholic teaching, and vote for the one we believe will do the most good following the most of our values and principles. A great booklet to help: Faithful Discipleship, published by the USCCB. You can find it on line.”
Sue asked the cardinal, “Why does the Catholic Church in the U.S. not walk with the Catholic Church in Rome?” What is necessary to make a relationship “that acknowledges the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and tries to follow closely with what it means to be a disciple of Christ?”
“I sure don't see the disconnect you reference,” responded Mahony. “My experience is that the Catholic Church in the USA is very dynamic, but very faithful to the Holy Father and to the Universal Church… I am in awe at how vibrant the Church is here. Our involvement of lay people in the Church is a great grace, and our Popes have noted that often.”
In response to the question, “Is there high hope for married priests? What is that status on having the option?” Cardinal Mahony said, “At this time, the Pope is not moving towards married priests for the Latin Catholic Church. Recall that the Eastern Catholic Church has had married priests for 2,000 years.”
Alexis asked, “Is their anything against the Catholic church being more fun? I mean the priest talks and kids don't pay attention, so couldn't we sing and dance, and make it more like gospel churches do, so kids will want to participate? I was just wondering if that was against our faith?”
“Sounds good to me!” replied Cardinal Mahony. “Our parishes need to offer a variety of liturgies which appeal to different age groups and to different likes. Youth Masses with groups such as Life Teen are really helpful!”
Laurie Allen asked Mahony why “some clerics in the church have a problem with the faithful practicing yoga? If the intention is to calm our minds and bodies -- can we not see this as a way to better ‘ground’ ourselves in God?” Allen said she has practiced yoga for 25 years, and “I find my faith has only grown...”
“Yoga is a deep meditation process, and if we keep our focus on our living and merciful love, then yoga works for anyone,” said Mahony. “Meditation in any form always deepens our love with God.”
Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 2:56 AM By Marie Nannery
I'm just gobsmacked that a Cardinal of the Catholic Church would come out and say carte blanche that All meditation in any form ie Yoga will deepen our faith. Do they read Vatican doctrine anymore ie on New Age, Christ the Bearer of Light etc.
a Priest called Fr Terence O'Connell spoke out on Liveline the Joe Duffy show on RTE One(see www.rte.ie/liveline) and was thrashed by the whole Limerick Diocese when he spoke out against Magic Yoga etc. HE HAD GUTS! whats wrong with Our Holy Catholic Church Leaders.
Theres a very good article on Father James Manjackal's website explaining Yoga and its conflict with Christian faith, this Man/ Priest is after all Indian and knows the culture, besides the Cardinal is promoting Panthesism, and the breaking of the First Commandment. all I can say is OH MY GOD, what have we come to when Cardinals speak ERRORS.
kind Regards,
An ordinary Irish Practicising Catholic(who was saved by the Holy Spirit from Reiki).
thanks for your time.
Marie.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:19 AM By cathy nolan
Yoga is not a meditation. Its an ancient form of dedication and worship to who knows what spirit. Mahony is full of balloney.... Check with a well known exorcist.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:32 AM By Kathy
Once again,Cardinal Mahony is orchestrating heretical teachings that are not in tune with the one true faith. My prayers are with you Cardinal Mahony. As a side note Yoga poses are meant as salutations to Hindu Gods- When we are on our knees in front of the Blessed Sacrament -This is the more acceptable and powerful meditation that truly deepens our love for our God.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:48 AM By dick bergeson
It is time for Cardinal Mahoney to retire, please. Meditation in any form DOES NOT necessarily lead to deeper love of God, as we know Him. There is much new age of which yoga is one that leads us away from Jesus and the Trinity. His idea on voting is so contrary to Church teaching. We need Bishops who are not afraid to voice strong words about abortion, same sex marriage, contraception and all the great teachings direct from Jesus through the Apostles.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:52 AM By traci
I want to clarify something Father had responded to. "Meditation in any form always deepens our love with God" is not necessarily true. It depends on what you are meditating on. Many of my friends meditate on their inner self and only that. Isn't it time this society got the focus off of ourselves for a change and meditated on God. That is the difference, oftentimes, with prayer and meditative yoga.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:58 AM By David
Yoga is just another means of Eastern Spirituality, which is one foot in the door to New Age. California needs an exorcism.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 5:20 AM By Patrick
Let's all say 3 hail Mary's for Cardinal Mahoney. He is so far off the spectrum that he needs conversion in understanding what Liturgy really is. It is not horizontal worship but vertical worship! We've gotten so far off track from the intentions of the Fathers at the Second Vatican Council regarding Liturgy, and Cardinal Mahoney along with many of our Bishops in North America are responsible for leading us in Liturgical abuses, such as dancing, jazz masses, etc. Please be more obedient to the directives of the Roman Curia. We're praying for you.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 5:37 AM By oramus
Yeah man, like singing and dancing is really gona be a draw for 'kids' - like man they get all that stuff on TV, IPod, radio, tapes, 24/7 so they need more of it at Mass - I can dig it. After years of kumbaya guitar and liturgical 'dance' why would anyone in their right mind think more of the same would attract anyone but a leftover dip stick from the 60s? Maybe 'kids' dom't want hip hop masses or worship being 'fun' perhaps what they need is majesty and the awesome power of the Divine that can only be had in silent contemplation or making Mass participation a cut above MTV.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:13 AM By Steve Murphy
I am loathe to contradict a bishop but it is hard to believe how misinformed Cardinal Mahony is. Yoga, for example is a religious practice that has an exercise component and IS contrary to Christianity. It is understandable for the laity to be uninformed but the Cardinal should not speak on subjects he is not educated on. And, for him to say he in not aware of any disconnect between the US and Rome is disingenuous and that's being kind.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:19 AM By Paul
My friend in California is so frustrated trying to find a "Holy" Catholic Church in California, that she has went to the Orthodox Church trying to find one. I can see why since the Cardinal favors singing and dancing, and a variety of liturgies at the Catholic Mass.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:30 AM By cubeland mystic
Trust neither liberals or conservatives on the topic of Yoga. Mahony is 100% wrong by saying that Yoga is a deep meditation process. The physical practice of Yoga is to strengthen the body for hours of prayer. The word Yoga means to link or union. When doing Yoga you don't have to think about God, it's when you are done that you have to think about God. If you can't tolerate the name Yoga, call it Pilates, and when you are done doing Pilaties head over to your local adoration chapel and sit for a couple hours.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:37 AM By William
Cardinal Mahony needs to read "Quo Primum" from the Council of Trent.Singing and dancing in church? Life Teen masses are good? Different liturgies? Pray for this Cardinal,that the Holy Ghost enlighten him.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:38 AM By John L. Sillasen
There it is again, the "v" word ... vibrant. "Vibrant" seems a word that references plantlife. My impression is that Cdl Mahony, possibly the co-inventer or the word "vibrant", and certainly its sponsor in our time, envisions the Church as a vibrant or brightly vegetabled community ... kind of like the hippies of old and their flower children.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:39 AM By cubeland mystic
Sorry one more comment. I practice Yoga because of my back, and I do the same poses that a therapist would make you do. I once lost two pounds after a 90 minute session, because it is so challenging. Most people are ignorant of the practice, and those who try to incorporate the "candy" into Americanized Yoga is distorting Yoga's purpose and intention. Just like they distort the purpose and intention of the Mass. An orthodox Yogi, if they understood the details of the Liberal VS. orthodox debate in our country would most likely side with us orthodox Catholics since they get it, while liberals fail to understand. Look for yourself and don't trust what you see in this country because they liberalize Yoga like they do the Mass.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:40 AM By anthonypadua
Cardinal Mahony once said that if his own mother saw him now, she would wonder aloud if he still had his Catholic faith. She would be correct in her assumption. Her son would make a lovely protestant and pagan.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:48 AM By Doria2
Will this apostate ever resign? He has done more damage to the Church in America than any single living person past or present - Doria2 Yonkers, NY HOSEA 4:6
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:53 AM By Katie Gatley
Cardinal Roger Mahony needs to retire. The man sounds like a walking billboard for everything and anything that comes down the pike. His answers are full of "smoke and mirrors", truly Satan has entered the Holy Roman Catholic Church. This man needs our prayers and a swift rebuke from Pope Benedict XVI for inviting the anti-Catholic speakers to his Religious Unorthodox Indoctrination Congress in Anaheim, CA. If Mahony had been honest he would have admitted to Mr. Martinez that the USSB states it is a grave moral sin to vote for pro-abortion politicians and this is the one issue that must guide a person when they vote. Not Mahony's baloney about voting for the candidate that follows "most of our values and principles". A wolf in sheeps clothing that has led his sheep astray. I wonder where this man will spend his eternity.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:15 AM By Derek Williams
The Cardinals comments on Yoga are appalling. Yoga is a Hindu meditation technique that is practiced and taught by Sharmans, Witches and a whole host of other Anti-Catholic groups. The word yoga means to be 'in union with', in particular with the demon god Shiva. our union is meant to be with Jesus Christ.
A Cardinal making a comment like this, obviously not really thought out, is misleading and unhelpful for those of us who are working at evangelising people out of these harmful practices.
God bless you
Derek
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:18 AM By Marcia
When is this man retiring? His damage to the Catholic church has been tremendous. Pray for his soul and pray that the Lord gives us a TRUE SHEPHERD not a heretic.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:26 AM By BobM
What a master at avoiding direct answers to good questions. THAT will drive those kids away for sure. Just for kicks I checked out the online reference to Faithful Discipleship, published by the USCCB. It's FOR SALE! Can't just pull it up and read or print it. Guess he has a feew settlement bills left to pay?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:29 AM By Fr. M.P.
“Yoga is a deep meditation process"? Cardinal Mahoney should read "Jesus Christ, The Bearer of the Water of Life A Christian reflection on the 'New Age'" and "Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation." Church needs to be more fun? Our Lady of La Salette said "People will think of nothing but amusement." As to the utterly forbidden liturgical dance, see this video podcast by Cardinal Arinze. http://arinzewebcast.com/?p=73
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:49 AM By Mary
I'm speechless. Is this guy for real...yoga focusing on our living and merciful love?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:53 AM By Catholic And Proud
He's full of it!
Hopefully, good Catholic people will not tolerate this much longer...call the Catholic League!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:13 AM By Tom J
I think the good cardinal needs to go to confession!!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:22 AM By Chris G
The comment the good Cardinal made on Yoga sounds like someone who does not know enough either about Yoga, or the Church's position on Yoga. I refer anyone interested to "Jesus Christ Bearer of the Water of Life, A Christian Reflection on New Age" put out some years ago jointly by the Pontifical Council for Culture and the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:48 AM By Fr. Korte
Cardinal Mahoney needs some theology and history lessons. His appalling statement on the history of celibacy--repeating the example of the Eastern Churches--as if that were the more ancient and unbroken tradition. He needs to read a small book on celibacy by his now deceased colleague in the college of Cardinals, Cardinal Alfons Stickler. Celibacy is not a mere discipline that can be abrogated with the right pope, but an apostolic custom that nobody will be able to abolish.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:52 AM By Joy
We have the Eucharist, we need nothing more. Church is a time to worship our Saviour and be with Him in Holy Communion, not provide entertainment for bored adolescents! I became Catholic over 10 years ago when my protestant church became a 3 ring circus of performances! there was no reverence left with people hootin' and hollerin' and acting like fools! This was not of the Holy Spirit, it was of complete foolishness trying ti cater to the whims and wants of people wanting more and more!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:54 AM By AnnaRose
We don't go to church to be entertained!!!! We go to worship Our Lord and Savior. We need to pray for Cardinal Mahony.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:03 AM By Monica
THIS CARDINAL WILL HAVE MUCH TO ANSWER FOR !!! FOR HE IS IN A POSITION OF AUTHORITY OVER GOD'S PEOPLE. HE WILL HAVE MUCH TO ANSWER FOR!!!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:05 AM By Juan Oskar
We should still show respect for "Guru Roger Mahony"
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:07 AM By rosa
A clever man who seems to be able to say one thing and mean another.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:21 AM By goldberg
One word: apostasy
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:22 AM By Richard
Down through the ages there have been good bishops and bad. "When the Holy Spirit comes, He will teach you all things(hidden to bishops and pagans alike)." Turn inward and listen well, testing always to ensure compliance with holy doctrine of Magisterium and Tradition.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:24 AM By Kathy
God help the Roman Catholic Church, with the likes of Mahony speaking his errors. Many are those who have a lack of catechesis to begin with, and along comes Mahony filling them up with this garbage, tickling their ears.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:35 AM By ally
At the suggestion of "Catholic and Proud" I faxed over a copy of today's article to the Catholic League.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:44 AM By christine
How is it that this man is able to contiue? Why
isn't Rome putting a stop to his errors?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:49 AM By Jo Ann
I suggest Our Holy Father consider sending Cardinal Mahony to Iran, as did Paul VI when he transfered Annibale Bugnini. Sounds to me as if Mahony is right out of the book, "AA-1025". He needs our prayers. Some one needs to inform him that our young people are gravitating to the Traditional Tridentine Mass in large numbers, not to dance or guitar recitals.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:02 AM By Salvatore G.
I will say like every day my rosary to my mother of Fatima and forward the final comments of this article to the Vatican for feed back.
I will not hold my breath.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:05 AM By Bob
This poor man is either still stuck in the failed novelties of the 60's (which means he isnot very bright), or he is dishonest.
Those are the only two possible explanations.
We should pray for him! He has done much harm by failing to recognize the difference between authentic Catholic teaching and modern 'spirituality' which was condemned by the great encyclical PASCENDI DOMINICI GREGIS:
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis_en.html
Dear Cardinal Mahoney. Please reread this document in front of our Eucharistic King... and then see if you could possibly make the same heretical statement about "all meditation".
vty, A young Catholic on Long Island.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:12 AM By Michelle
I want to know why the Pope does not reprimand his flock when they are going against the beliefs of the Church. Cardinal Mahony, along with Bishop Brown should be summoned to the Vatican ASAP. They have got to know what is going on. Anyone going against Rome should not be allowed to hold such a public office to mislead the faithful.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:14 AM By Michelle
I want to know why the Pope does not reprimand his flock when they are going against the beliefs of the Church. Cardinal Mahony, along with Bishop Brown should be summoned to the Vatican ASAP. They have got to know what is going on. Anyone going against Rome should not be allowed to hold such a public office to mislead the faithful.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:16 AM By anthonypadua
Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:05 AM By Juan Oskar
We should still show respect for "Guru Roger Mahony"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You're kidding, right? Respect? "Oh, thank you so much, your Eminence, for helping me lose my immortal soul with your heterodox, pagan teachings." You and the good cardinal have one thing in common if you think we should "respect" him: you've both lost your minds.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:26 AM By Betty
Thank you John S. I think the word "vibrant" is terribly overused. I have some vague ideas that it is meant that we vibrate like string on a guitar and produce pleasant music just as the guitar does but come on! Our parish started a new committee called a pulse committee and promised that we would become more vibrant than we already are. Who said that we were vibrant? The pulse committee is supposed to take the pulse of the parish, in case you're interested.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:28 AM By Maria G.
DIVINE MERCY!!! Only GOD could have known just how much we need his mercy as we pray to have mercy on us.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:32 AM By Con
l've read all the comments posted and the overwhelming verdict is that Catholics have no confidence in this Cardinal. l think the Cardinal's use by made has long expired. Little wonder Catholics worldwide have lost almost all respect and confidence in our shepherds. Cardinal Mahony should read Eph 5:14 "Wake up o' sleeper and rise from the dead and Christ will shine on you" as it definitely applies to him and to the majority of our "shepherds". Jer 23:1-6 also applies to many of our shepherds today.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:43 AM By Pina Bernardi
Hello California, I am writing from Canada, we Have many problems of or own within our Catholic communities but your Cardinal Mahony takes the prize, we'll pray for him please pray for us.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:43 AM By Elizabeth
Ditto to AnnaRose!!!!!!!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:51 AM By Maria
Yoga is part of Theravada Buddhism..historically the "real " Budda. Reincarnation and denial or self-awareness...are what the meditation is focused on. Good and evil..right or wrong...are illusions. In Yoga your focus is not on outward problems. But on "nothin-ness" and this leads to enlightinment. The Church clearly teache's this is heretical belief. Also its appointed once for man to die..as is read in the Bible. Yoga denies this...you have many past and future lives. As one of the writes commented....its an Open door to deception..and endangers one's soul.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:10 AM By Cindy
Come to Denver, we have an awesome Archbishop who is totally in line with Rome. We LOVE Archbishop Chaput!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:13 AM By Newt
I think it was the late Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen who once pointed out that the devil, who is traditionally referred to as the "ape of Christ" ("simia Christi") also has HIS "mystics."
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:18 AM By Art of Redding
Did anyone expect better from Card. Mahony? Since Mahony is familiar with "on line chat", perhape he will take the opportunity to make a comment in this CCD forum. Anyone taking bets?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:24 AM By Leonard
The best we can do is to pray for Cardinal Mahony ...
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:43 AM By cubeland mystic
The Yoga that most Americans associate with Yoga is the physical poses that you do. I’ve never heard anyone assert that these poses are forms of worship to specific Hindu deities. As far as I can tell most Hindus don’t practice physical Yoga. One might use the word Yoga generically like faith. There many types of yoga. You are demonizing the wrong yoga here. Physical Yoga is meant to get you physically prepared for long periods of prayer, so fatigue does not interfere with prayer. To Hindus physical Yoga is no different than Pilates.
The poses strengthen and keep your temple in shape. Before there was medicine these poses helped weak and sickly people heal. There are poses that help you clear your lungs, or your digestive system. This is before expectorants and laxatives. It’s foolish materialist Americans who abuse this very practical thing, and incorporate new age garbage into it.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:44 AM By cubeland mystic
From what I understand about the Hindu religion is that the representations of the “gods” that we are familiar with Shiva, Ganesha, Kali, Krisha, Vishnu, are different aspects of God. Hindus understand them to be a mythology, and not literal as our Christian imagery is. Every Hindu I’ve talked to about the nature of God say that there is only one God. I am NOT so sure that they are polytheists, but I cannot make that claim.
What I do see though is a lot of misunderstanding about Yoga and Hinduism because westerners have corrupted it with new age dogma. It is a horrible thing. It is just as bad as liturgical dance and all the other garbage that liberals have done to our faith. Where we stand with the Hindus is in Natural Law. They can be strong partners in defense of life, but not if we refer to them as demon worshipers
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:45 AM By Sheila
In reading all these posts, what made my soul jump for joy is the orthodoxy of the lay people posting. You are the true remnant of the faith and God will reward you for being faithful. Especially here in California, but no doubt the world over, we cannot trust our shepherds to guide us. Let us pray to the Holy Spirit to keep us on the right track.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:45 AM By cubeland mystic
Finally on the physical Yoga topic, the poses are thought of as exercise, again to strengthen the body for prayer. How many of you can say the Rosary without drifting or fidgeting? Physical Yoga strengthens the body to stop that. So for you older gravitationally challenged Catholics might want to head to the Y and take a class. If you just can’t get past the fact that it is Yoga, then take Pilates or Marshal Arts. The reason I do yoga is for my upper back, because the poses address stretching your spine without having to undergo the tortures, expense, and drug abuse of western medicine. So yes I am with you all in your criticism of Cardinal and with the new age. I am just not willing to demonize orthodox Hindus when they can be a pro-life as we are.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 12:19 PM By cubeland mystic
Maria, please remember that Yoga is a word like religion or faith. What aspect are you talking about makes all the difference? The topic you are discussing has different Sanskrit names. You happen to be grouping them under the english word Yoga. Please distinguish between the asanas which are the physical postures which most all Americans understand to be Yoga, and say Samadhi which I think you are talking about. The stuff that we understand to be Yoga in this country doesn't even come close to the complexities of Eastern Spirituality. It's a blip and almost forgoten in India. I agree with you but, I hate to see such a medically useful set of techniques get demonized because foolish westerners not only want to distort our faith, but distort and twist the faiths of other peoples. That is what I think is going on here.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 12:32 PM By Dan
To Alexis who asked:Alexis asked, “Is their anything against the Catholic church being more fun?" I have some experience with gospel churches -- I played viola in an Assembly of God church for 3 years almost every Sunday. The second service(yes there were two) had most of the youth there. The service consists of a praise set -- 4-5 praise songs with some prayer and a video for announcements, a choir anthem and then a 30+ minute sermon and altar call and/or call for people to come up for prayer. Although the service is lively with raised hands and loud singing, it is in no way "fun." Nobody dances. But the youth are engaged. It is in Sunday School where the youth have more fun; informal lessons and the singing give them a sense of belonging. I have also played viola at a Life-Teen Mass for about the 3 years and have not witnessed the same enthusiasm I have seen at the Assembly of God church; many of these youth disappear after Confirmation and it is a big problem. By itself Life-Teen is not the answer.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 12:57 PM By barbara evely
WILL ROME PLEASE LISTEN TO CARDINAL MAHONEY'S OUTRAGEOUE RHETORIC AND RETIRE HIM BEFORE HE DOES MORE DAMAGE TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH ?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 1:13 PM By Luie
The best and more productive substitute for Yoga is just a few minutes of meditation in front of the Blessed Sacrament...If you want to relax and "feel good" ..... try it....
you don't even have to buy a mat or pay someone to make you look like a bad shaped pretzel......Try it, it's free.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 1:21 PM By Maryanne
This shows what will happen when anyone, including a Cardinal, takes their eyes off of Jesus. To be faithful, all must obey, preach, and teach the truths of our faith and know that they are to follow the Magisterium. How sad - we must pray for him.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 1:27 PM By Mother A
Cardinal Mahony continues to be a source of embarassment
for Orthodox catholics everywhere. The sooner they retire this clown the better off the church will be.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 1:42 PM By kephas
Clearly Card. Mahoney is so misinformed, it will be a miracle for his flock to "get it" Those Catholics don't even know they have a personal responsibility to learn the FAITH beyond the religious instruction from their parish. As evidenced by that conference on "religious education"_ those attendees are suppose to teach the children the Roman Catholic faith and they are clueless of the Magisterial teachings of our Faith. Indeed, we live in a very "sad times." My knees are already hurting from praying. Lord have mercy.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 1:45 PM By Diane
"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck....etc." Quit rationalizing Yoga is just an "exercise". PRAY! RESEARCH! "Holy Spirit, increase our discernment of spirits!"
Diane
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 2:12 PM By Puttss
I am glad to see that I am not the only one who disagrees with Cardinal Mahony on the subject of Yoga and meditation.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 2:46 PM By Maria C
I would suggest that all the faithful here, write to Mahoney and share our disagreement with him and quote real teachings of the church to help him see more clear. After that keep praying for him.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 3:26 PM By helen murphy
Fr. Mahony may be sincere in his belief that meditation is all good. The Holy Rosary is our most effective and truthful meditation as Catholics. I practised yoga when I was young. One of the positions was called Salutation to the Sun. That means worship to the Sun, a false God. Mother Angelica prays Salutations to Our Blessed Lady on EWTN. So I now feel very sad about what I was doing in my youth. Thank God for EWTN and Mother Angelica. I live in New Zealand, and even I can see the truth from afar. God has his way of showing us the truth. I pray for Fr. Mahony that he will also seek and be shown the truth.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:02 PM By Maria B
...and I thought Canada was in a worse situation with our Catholic Church. This is insane for a bishop to speak in this manner and he doesn't speak for Catholics but pagans and witches. No wonder the Lord will strike at California with a catastrophic earthquake. The Lord God have mercy on the people of California!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:03 PM By John L. Sillasen
Which saints have been practicioners of yoga?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 4:25 PM By Chris
Yet another attack on a human being by satan and his minions. None of us are immune to the external forces that can creep in if we let our guard down. I think what Cardinal Mahoney said was ridiculous... especially for a man of his position, however... he is our brother and we need to be concerned for his soul. Remember what our Savior said " Let he without sin cast the first stone". Let's all pray for him.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 5:07 PM By Milly
Salutation to the Sun! Scripture tells us of A Woman Clothed with the Sun. Hail Mother Mary Full of Grace.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 5:09 PM By Joe S.
Yoga is another gateway to the occult. Yoga enters one into an altered state. The breathing exercises help one to hypnotize themselves. The breathing exercises are the same as the ones you find in transendental meditation and centering prayer.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:10 PM By Jim
According to the catechism of the Catholic Church, the authority of the magisterium to teach in the name of the Church occurs when the bishops teach in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome. Many Catholics have stopped listening to the bishops who think that they are teaching independent from Rome.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:37 PM By Stephen
The Cardinal has some things with which I seriously disagree, However, in the context of what he said here, I feel he is being overly criticized. He wasn't coming up with dogmatic answers here. He was just casually talking. He may have misspoke, but I don't think, in this case, all the criticism is properly given. We forgive others speech more than the Cardinal's. Other times, I agree that he has been wrong. Here...
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:41 PM By Meg
How did Mahony ever get to be a cardinal??
I feel very discourgaged when I hear church leaders like Mahony saying that Yoga and married priests are ok and it would be great to have more dancing and singing and blah, blah, blah..... Does the Vatican even care anymore about traditional Catholics. Answer: No, I don't think so. So sad.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:43 PM By Stephen
On the other hand, I do know the Cardinal was not correct in some of what he said. I often feel some cardinals just really don't know any better. They aren't intentionally misleading people. Having said that, I know full well Cardinal Mahoney has erred far more seriously than what we see here. And so have many other bishops and clergy. And lay Catholics, and other "Catholics", too.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 6:55 PM By Angelo
Sheila, I once thought there were no faithful Catholics left in California. When I discovered the California Catholic Daily website. I prayed, "Mi alma brinca de gozo." from a spanish
hymn, "My soul jumps for joy." We all need to consider
donations to this website. We cannot afford to lose it.
This site is a God-Send. Now at long last our Bishops can
no longer ignore us.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:14 PM By Anita
Sadly, some of the American Cardinals and Bishops are watering down the Catholic faith instead of building it up. Thank God for Pope Benedict XVI, he will get things back in order.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:46 PM By Aussi M
As the Our lady said in Aikta japan and elsewhere
The Bishops and religious are falling into hell and taking many souls with them.
Our Shepherds are not leading us, they are wolves in sheeps clothing.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:48 PM By goodwife
I am in wonder over the overwhelming negative response to this article. I am in OCIA to be confirmed on March 22. I don't know half of what lifetime Catholics know (or should know) and I cannot believe that this supposedly holy man would recommend this kind of practice. I once considered Yoga but drew back for some odd reason. I think the "odd reason" was the Holy Spirit guiding my life. Thanks be to God, Peace to you all.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:54 PM By John L. Sillasen
As to cardinals and bishops knowing stuff ... I once browsed through the Catholic University of America library section which stored the doctoral theses of bishops ... all I can say is that at least they're good at business. On the bright side, that's what gives them an edge in communicating with everyone so well. Not that I would say it's business as usual with the Church, but that one has to speak the lingua franca. And lest we overlook it, the New Testament was apparently written in Koine Greek, the business "dialect" of the Greek language common to the region. So, what are we looking for in the speeches and publications of bishops?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:56 PM By ejsondag
Thank all of you for pointing out the sillyness. My gut hurts when I think of the squandered opportunity he had to speak the truth to hungry people and decide to play it safe with Mahoney Baloney
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:08 PM By Joe S.
What actually happens physilogically during the yoga, centering prayer, and transendental meditation practitioners typical 30 minute meditation sessions? The three methods are the SAME with different names. During the 30 minutes the practitioner first gets into their comfortable position (lying down, a chair), then is instructed to start a continual cycle of deep inhaling followed by long exhaling (deep breathing). During the breathing the practitioner is instructed to focus in on their special word (love, peace, one). Or their special place. All the while blocking out all other thoughts. This is how the mind becomes "empty" and self enlightenment becomes realized. But what is actually going on physilogically? Just think about it. The breathing starts out at normal intervals but progressivly spaces out as the minutes elapse. Less breaths are taken as each minute goes by. This then turns into "unaware" shallow breathing.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:18 PM By Joe S.
cont. ... Also at this time the heart rate begins to drop. A typical 70 beats per minute can drop to 30 beats, or even less, per minute. If done properly the practitioner can appear to look dead. This, in turn, throws the body into a state of self induced Oxygen Deprivation. In turn, this throws the BRAIN into a state of self induced Hypoxia.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:29 PM By Joe S.
... cont. Lack of oxygen to the brain or the Hypoxic state throws the brain into a drunken stuper. The practitioner begins to hallucinate and is physically no longer in control of themselves. The brain then turns into survival mode trying to live. It usually shuts itself down to conserve oxygen but
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:46 PM By Joe S.
... cont. the brain can become violent and if not careful the practitioner if rudley disturbed out of this stuper can become pretty mean. Watch out! This is the reason for the instructor ringing the Gong. So as to gently awaken the person out of their altered state. The military flight programs are able to duplicate this hypoxic state. Each flight student is required to experience the High Altitude Chamber.
This is to assure that the pilot can identify the symptoms of oxygen deprivation before he goes Hypoxic. Not a good thing to pass out while flying! There are videos where one can watch the results of the High Altitude Chamber.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:50 PM By rosario Inducil
May our Almighty and Merciful God have mercy on Cardinal Mahoney for leading his flock astray! Let's keep praying that the Holy Spirit will enlighten him to adore, love and serve God
his Creator, above any thing or person in this world.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:55 PM By cubeland mystic
Hi Team, Just returned from practicing asanas, which is commonly miscategorized as Yoga. The Americanized "yoga" that you are all rightfully criticizing is very worthy of your criticism. It is like when the communists run our Catholic churches in China. Boxers breath through their noses. Extreme athletes practice slowing their hearts for performance purposes. I agree avoid new age like the plague. But don't slam something that is essentially a workout. You guys are afraid of breathing and exercise. Anyone ever have your coach tell you to breath while you're bench pressing? Most of the asanas (poses) given at the Y or the gym are harmless. Most of you have done variations of them in PE when your were kids. The T.M. and techniques that comes later is what you have to avoid.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:59 PM By Rose
I won't listen to or even give any thought to what Cardinal Mahoney or any other Church leaders like him says. You know why? Because they don't speak the Truth!!! The Truth has been given to us from Jesus Himself. I will NEVER listen to anyone, priest, lay person, deacon, etc.that speaks heretics. That is from the devil and
"Opportunity may knock once, but temptation bangs on your front door forever."
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:06 PM By cubeland mystic
Remember the higher stages of contemplative prayer are a gift from God. You cannot obtain them from techniques like centering prayer or T.M. Even Fr. Groeschel called the Hail Mary we say in the Rosary a mantra. That is how it is being use. You know the protestants say the same things about what we do, as a lot of you are saying about the asanas. The sunrise salutation is not worshiping the sun, it is effectively deep knee bends and pushup, and you do them in the morning instead of drinking 15 cups of coffee to get you going. Good morning Brother Sun. Stop the fear and the rage. You want to make a point with the Cardinal, endure the liturgical abuse, but go out and practice the virtues and all the good things we do. There is nothing stopping you from a vibrant practice of your faith.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:20 PM By cubeland mystic
All this fear and loathing is kind of counter productive. The cardinal can't stop you from living out your faith. If you took all this angst and poured into something productive, you might build the church you want. Mother Angelica is a giant and no one stopped her. She is a saint, and God bless her. Because if it wasn't for her I would not have had a good formation. Here are some suggestions. Some of you older Catholic trench warriors start an anti pornography group at the church that just raises awarness and money for orgs that do the fighting. After one of your liturgically abused Masses have a group of people over to discuss the true beauty of the Mass. Be a volunteer for EWTN, which basically raises awareness about the different ways people can access their content. Leave the material around the church. Psst, don't ask your liberal pastor for permission. Just do it!, you have authority by virtue of your baptism. My very orthodox pastor said so.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:30 PM By Joe S.
... cont. In relation to the practitioner, it is simple. Shallow breathing leads to less blood pumped through the body, which results in lack of oxygen to the brain ... a HYPOXIC DRUNKEN STUPER. The instructor brings the student out of this stuper usually at 30 minutes because any longer and it can cause harm to the brain. Spiritually we are called to be mentally SOBER at all times. We are called to be Always SOBER in our prayer life. Loss of mental control can lead to demonic control. The door becomes unlocked. We are all called to fill our minds with the Holy Spirit. Thus we need to avoid "emptying" our minds as Yoga, Centering Prayer, and Transendental Meditation teach. Unfortunantly, I've experienced this "meditation" while a young man out of high school. Finding that something was wrong, I was able to remove myself from it. I next came across that same result when I, too, entered into the High Altitude Chamber as a young military pilot. I can attest to the Oxygen Deprivation. If one where to climb a mountain taller than 12,000 feet they too could sample this lack of oxygen. Try running around or exercising. But... should you come across that wise guy in his cave giving out his "meaning of life" advice, beware... he's most likely on some kind of Hypoxia trip. STAY SOBER!!!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 9:34 PM By Hicardo
The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint ... but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices.
- C.S. Lewis
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:04 PM By Cal-Brian
I honestly believe that Cardinal Mahoney means well, but unfortunately I also believe that he is dead wrong...I think incorporating dance and contemporary music into the litury often may have the unintended consequence of leading to a less reverent atmosphere, and consequently a lessing of the belief in the Real Presence.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:21 PM By John L. Sillasen
Why chant? We cannot put ourselves into a spiritual realm ... we are sentient beings, and we cannot escape our bodies except in death. But God can enter our lives no matter what our state of activity is; look at St Paul, who did not know what happened to him, "whether in or out of the body, I do not know". I think the only value of yoga is as an expression to others to leave us alone while we think. It is said that St Thomas Aquinas was seen floating in the air while meditating on the Crucifix ... Did the Saint do that, or did God lift him? How can yoga beat that? There are other mysterious things attributed to some saints ... did they purposely posture themselves in order to experience these unusual things? St Pio said, as I recall reading, that he did not ask for such things as bilocation, etc ... at least that's the impression I got. He was walking along one day and ran into an angel; so what kind of posture discipline was necessary for that? Some say that one needs to quiet the body to experience mystical prayer ... but why? What about running the body at a repetitive task in such a way as to accomplish the same thing, the bridling of the body, so that the mind, the soul and the will can listen without so much noise? But even this seems not quite logical, since God can speak through any noise to reach the ear of the soul.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:27 PM By Richard
Nice try, cubeland. Yoga as a spiritual practice is very rarely taught as mere 'breathing and exercise', yet one is taught to use a mantra in conjunction with methods of posture and breathing to empty the mind and soul. Once the mind and soul are emptied, they can filled by any spirit who chances by. The soul is not to be emptied - nowhere is this recommended in Scripture. The individual is encouraged to meditate on God's word day and night (Ps 1:1-2) - to be constantly and continually filled with God.
It is God who initiates any attempt or occurrence of meditative prayer - Fr Thomas Dubay in "Prayer Primer" (Ignatius Press, 2002, p. 155-156) writes, "It is an illusion to think that techniques can produce an immersion in God. He is not one to be manipulated as one can manipulate a machine or appliance." Yoga as addressed by the good Cardinal and the individual who chatted with him is such a method.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:40 PM By John L. Sillasen
This prayer "sub-thread" is getting pretty good. Fifteen cups !!! What a lot of hassle ... why not simply fifteen measures in one cup??? +++ But maybe those knee bends and pushups are the ticket ... hope I remember to try them in the morning ... and then get my coffee. Oh wait, first thing is feed the dogs, otherwise they'll be all over me as I try a few pushups. In fact, I've been meaning to kick the pushup routine back in gear ... let you know how many I can do. Ok, feed dogs, deep knee bends, pushups, coffee, yell and make faces at slow drivers on way to work ... yeah, I think I'm already suffering oxygen deprivation just at the thought of 12000 feet and pushups.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 10:48 PM By Joe S.
Cubeland Mystic? Hey, who you trying to buffalo? Anyone researching asanas will always run into yoga. You are into yoga which is Eastern MYSTICISM. Yoga has its intrensic roots in the whorship of the kundilini serpent. The meditation you aspire to is not the same as exercising in gym class. Point being that the disciple is UNAWARE of his LACK of breathing during the meditation. Atheletes are always trying fill themselves with as much oxygen at all times. Fr. Groeschel has been wrong before. He is quite ignorant of the New Age. A mantra is usually one word said over and over with no establishment of the users relationship under the authority of our Creator. The Hail Mary is the very Word of Our Creator (salutation) to that which the angel repeated. How can the Very Salutation of our God be a Mantra? The protestants cry use of "vain repitition" which is something mindless and said over and over without glory to God. The Hail Mary over and over glorifies the coming of Our Lord over and over. Your gang uses mantras. If your not using a mantra then you are not performing eastern meditation properly. Your Catholic formation has not released you from the occult of Yoga. If asana Yoga is not Eastern religion than why call it Yoga? There is no fear and rage here. We are called to be the church militant, we need to waging spiritual combat against improper teachings. Ignorant Religious are a liability. They must need to be corrected. How are we to correct this problem if we are all working in a soup kitchen. We are called to be defenders of the faith. Not become Hindus bowing to Kali the Destroyer (moon goddess). Do your research. Union with KALI is the end goal of all Yoga variants. The rationalist, of course, will find a way of talking themselves into yoga as an acceptable means as a Catholic. Mother Angelica has spoken out against Yoga, Centering Prayer, and T.M. .
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 11:20 PM By javier lopez
It is a pity to lose an opportunity like this. Yoga in philosophy and practice is incompatible with Christianity - I recommend to read this article by an Indian Catholic priest and Phd. Fr. James Manjackal MSFS http://www.jmanjackal.net/eng/engyoga.htm
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:25 AM By cennino
I am really shocked at Cardinal Mahoney's pronouncements on yoga and it is very much against the first commandment.Cardinal Mahoney,you know that you are accountable to GOD for misleading HIS sheep in many ways.About your comment on the Holy Mass,it is the core of our life yet you treat it like it is just an ordinary get together so there should be varieties?The celebration of our redemption can never be altered by any priest , not even you, Your Eminence. Everything should be in line with the Vatican. What are you doing?That is why people do not know GOD anymore because there is no more due reverence and adoration given HIM!
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:32 AM By Edna Montemayor
It is time; its is time, indeed for this cardinal to resign......please go, enough of you, already
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:34 AM By Alvaro Cortes
QUE DIFERENCIA CON ALGUNOS DE LOS NUESTROS.
LEE LO QUE DICE CARDINAL ROGER MAHONY
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:38 AM By Angelo
Cal-Brien, A Dominican Missionary once told us, " I assure
you every soul now burning in hell, had good intentions."
This was a warning to us. Do Gods will and not our own!
We must pray and offer sacrifices for the conversion of
Mahoney. Richard, I disagree with Fr. Dubay. The Technique
of the Holy Mass produces an immersion with God. The 20
mystery's of the Holy Rosary, when prayed as the Church instructs. Is a perfect union and immersion with God.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 6:08 AM By cubeland mystic
Richard, the Cardinal does not know what he is talking about. I won't deny that people in the new age do what you are concerned about, and would qualify "as such a method." That's why I jumped on this thread, because the Cardinal is wrong about Christianity and he is wrong about physical yoga. I've never practiced T.M., I don't think that my heart has ever slowed below 100 beats, nor have I ever been told to take a shallow breath Only deep breaths like the ones we were told to take while lifting weights. Physical asanas, what most of you think Yoga is intended by its originators 5000 years ago in India to heal and make healthy the body. It is not really practiced that much in India today. I practice Yoga to heal my body, and to strengthen it. I do Yoga because my teacher does not bring the new age junk into her studio. If I cannot find a teacher like that I will do it alone, because I agree with you.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 6:17 AM By cubeland mystic
Richard, when you talk about mantra do you mean like the Hail Mary said during the rosary? Or do you mean it like Orthodox monks say the Jesus Pray with every breath? I said in an earlier post that contemplation is gift and cannot be obtained through effort. If you cannot pray because your body is in pain, and you have to take powerful drugs to kill the pain that is no different than hypoxia. STAY SOBER. Exercise, eat chastely and healthy foods like your ancestors did for thousands of years, try to avoid drugs. Avoid liberal Masses and new age junk. Most importantly stay fit and healthy so you can "meditate on God's word day and night."
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:11 AM By John L. Sillasen
OK, one kneep deebend, check. Dogs fed, check. One pushup, check. Coffee, check. Hmn, ok, that's deep kneebend ... check. Second coffee, coming up. Missing something here ... where's the loud, booming voice doing the precision counting?
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:01 AM By Michael
First of all - This Man is not a representative of the True-One-Holy -Catholic and Apostolic Church - He is a Heretic - A Heretic is a baptized person who rejects an authoritative teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. An apostate is a person who rejects the Christian faith completely. All heretics and apostates sever themselves from the Catholic Church automatically (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis, June 29, 1943). Therefore, if one is a heretic he is not a Catholic (Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, June 29, 1896). And most heretics convince themselves that they are not denying any dogma when they actually are.
PS: and Rome and the pope could care less. The Vatican is filled with heretics.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:10 AM By Tee
These comments by Crdl Mahoney are what are driving younger, not firmly educated, grounded in the Faith, but thinking, searching Catholics out of the Church. When will Rome come to our rescue? Like Christ on the cross, need we cry, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?"
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:31 AM By AnnaMaria
Thank You Jesus! for all these great postings unmasking the enemy. The battle is being fought by the little people who know and believe that their prayers and Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin will conquer Satan. God Bless You All
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:56 AM By Pat Brooks
I'm dumfounded. How can a Cardinal make such a statement.?
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:07 AM By kathleen
It's time Cardinal Mahoney comes clean and bows out. It's pathetic to have to put up with such a confused power hungry leader. He needs to be yanked out of office immediately.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:39 AM By Betty
Well here in Massachusetts a sex-education program has been instituted in various parishes to teach our children how to distinguish between Good Touch and Bad Touch and the program is supposed to start with kindergarten and continue up to grade school, etc. Many parents took a look at the program and decided that they didn't want this program for their children. Cardinal O'Malley has been quoted as saying that there were eighteen parishes where parents refused to allow their children to participate but two of them have changed their minds. There are still two holdout parishes, he says, but he is hop[ing that the holdout parishes will decide to bend instead. I think this is pretty awful news.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:08 PM By Richard
I reread my comment a few comments above and would back up what I said, "Once the mind and soul are emptied, they can be filled with any spirit who chances by," with what Christ says about the unclean spirit who upon returning to the interior of the man he had gone out of, finds it swept and put in order, and reenters the man, bringing with him seven other spirits more evil than himself (Mt 12:43-45, Lk 11:24-26). Prevention of this from happening is to fill one's mind, heart, and soul with God's word, meditating on it day and night (Ps 1:1-2), holding fast to it in a honest and good heart (Lk 8:15), leaving no "room" for any unclean spirit to enter. Emptying one's mind and heart I think puts one in the position to be subject to the type of situation with the unclean spirit of which Christ speaks.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:45 PM By John L. Sillasen
Bishops are not "representatives" of the Church; they are vicars of Christ.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:01 PM By Karen
What on God's green earth would it take to make Rome DO SOMETHING about this man? How many souls have to be lost before it would be worth rocking the boat?
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:17 PM By Richard
Again, cubeland, you are making broad associations (Yoga=exercise and breathing, mantras=Hail Mary and Jesus Prayer) to compare Yoga with legitimate spiritual or physical practices in an attempt to justify it. I will not deny a repetitive aspect of use the Hail Mary in the rosary or of Jesus Prayer, but it is dishonest to imply that their use is no different from that of mantras in Yoga.
One may just as easily apply mental energy to focusing on offering the words of the Hail Mary with one's heart just as easily as one may apply that same energy to focusing on the meditation of the mystery. In doing so, one is addressing Mary, and who is one addressing with mantras in Yoga? The rosary is a sterile practice if meditation on the mysteries are excluded. And this is where the rosary and Yoga would be irreconcilable - mantras in Yoga serve to help empty the mind, saying the Hail Marys in the rosary is meant to continually invoke Mary's guidance in filling the mind with God's word embedded in the mysteries. The method of breathing during the Jesus prayer stems from the fact that mind and body are inseparable. In the Way of the Pilgrim it's explained that one associates breathing and heart beat with the prayer so that the body's natural continual functions will come to carry on the petition of the soul to Jesus Christ to "have mercy on me, a sinner". The prayer itself absorbs one's whole being, body and soul. Again, in Yoga, to whom is the mantra addressed as prayer?
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:40 PM By Richard
Cubeland (cont.),
Mind and body are inseparable - one cannot content oneself with the notion that it is harmless to regularly engage in Yoga as a mere physical activity without the practice reaching into the spiritual life. I am sure that no one who practices Yoga as such would deny that it does not affect one's mind and heart. To promote Yoga as a means to maintain a healthy body to complement one's spiritual life is dangerous as it will very likely quickly come to be associated with the Yoga practiced spiritually.
The function of mantras is to assist in Yoga in emptying the mind and soul, which practice has nothing to do with Christian spirituality - in theory or in practice. Carmelite mystics knew that only God could initiate any method for our coming into closer union with him. St John of the Cross taught that all the sufferings which God allows us to experience are the crucible which prepare our mind and heart to be filled by him in contemplative prayer - but it is God, not us, who initiate or allow any such instances - of suffering or prayer. The only "method" such saints engaged in was abandonment to God, including devoting as much time as He willed to Him in prayer (and, no, committing time for prayer and practicing Yoga are not just the same thing) - knowing, however, that any instances of meditation, mystical experiences, or contemplative prayer would be initiated purely on God's part.
Exercise is good for the spiritual life. Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19), we are to offer are bodies as living sacrifices (Rom 12:1), and glorify God in our bodies (1 Cor 6:20). A healthy body helps to strengthen one's faculties of mind and heart which we present to God in prayer to be filled by Him and His word. Yoga is rarely practiced in such a manner to merely strengthen the body, though, and quickly comes to imitate the spiritual practice of emptying the mind and heart. There are other ways to maintain a healthy body.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:42 PM By Andrew
Mother Angelica was so right to lambast this Cardinal Mahoney 11 years ago. Prince of the Church, he is not. Lord have mercy on this man of little faith.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:32 PM By John L. Sillasen
God can overwhelm any clutter of the mind or body, and does not need us to be empty. Emptying ourselves serves another purpose, which is to experience some pain ... in the sense of fasting. When we experience pain, we can be more sensitive to the sufferings of others. I am happy that god has given some people to be able to handle longsuffering, instead of the shortsuffering I can handle. But like fasting, a little bit goes a long way.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:42 PM By cubeland mystic
Joe, I don't meditate, it is too physically painful while you are holding a push-up for 3 minutes. I don't practice the spiritual disciplines of Eastern spirituality, because they are wrong. I agree with Richard. From what I understand a lot of Yogi's don't practice asanas either because they see no spiritual value in them. I just strengthen my muscles and practice intense stretching. Also I have not found anything that stretches the upper back so precisely. The Cardinal was probably referring the the new age junk. He should refrain from commenting on things he knows nothing about. As for as the bulk of your criticism I agree, but I've experienced nothing like what you are describing. Just a hard workout. The only enlightening in my class are the ladies who are trying to en-lighten their rear-ends. The only people who talk like what you describe are the new age types, and I've not really encountered them. The asanas can be extracted from Yoga, and simply become a workout. That's what I do.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 2:57 PM By Joe S.
Get this. The "former" pastor of Blessed Pope John the XXIII out of Ft. Myers, FL, also a yoga practitioner, allowed a local guru, the Deacon's Wife, to take over the chapel and turn it into a yoga studio (ashram). The chapel is seperated from the main church and alter only by a glass partition. The tabernacle is is also in veiw by way of glass windows through a double door. The Deacon's guru decided to start her yoga class during the last part of mass. Adoration was held following mass. The adorers could see some sort of activity taking place in the darkened chapel, through the glass partition. They could not make it out too well until some of them walked back into the chapel after adoration. The yoga disciples had been clad in scant clothing, some men bare chested, the females shamefully exposed clearly in veiw of the exposed most Holy Lord. Imagine the scene. Legs apart, rears in the air right in front of our Lord. What a shock!! SPIRITUAL VIRTIGO !!! A true story indeed. A single woman with exorcism water and salt entered the next schedualed class and confronted the guru and about 30 students, in the chapel. They where interupted by this lone woman of God. The holy water was sprinkled and salt laid down. The St. Micheal prayer involked. She said it was as if the gates of Hell opened up on her. All the screaming and yelling directed at her by the yoga "GANG" did not back her down. She finished her prayers and walked out of the Chapel. The cops were called on her by the Deacon's Guru. A holy visiting priest ran interference for the woman of God. No arrests were made. Bishop Dewayne became envolved. The Yoga class was removed. The yoga pastor removed himself. Now, this Bishop Dewayne has been attacked by this GANG in the news. Check out there Quotes. Bishop Dewayne is standing strong against the new age. He is deeply engaging the advisary. Prayers are needed for him. In regards to the woman... She is my hero. A true story.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:05 PM By cubeland mystic
Richard, Yoga is very broad, and encompasses lots of different disciplines. Most of them should be avoided at all costs. I am only interested in the asanas which are synthesized in America into a very therapeutic workout. Maybe good enough to enable practitioners to avoid surgeries or drugs. That's it. I don't do mantras, I don't mediate, I don't practice mind control. My beef is with new age Americans incorporating physical asanas into their freak show and calling it Yoga. I won't deny that the purpose of the asana in the East is to strengthen the body for prayer. The prayer part starts when you stop the asanas. We don't go there in class. It is about health not spirituality, no prayer o mind control. Just sweat soaked gym clothes, sore muscles, and a less pain in my upper back. I agree with your rosary explanation, the Hail Mary helps to focus the mind on the mysteries. I have no idea what the mantra is used for in Eastern prayer.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:18 PM By cubeland mystic
Richard you said "Yoga is rarely practiced in such a manner to merely strengthen the body, though, and quickly comes to imitate the spiritual practice of emptying the mind and heart. There are other ways to maintain a healthy body."
Yes, Pilates, running, lifting etc. etc. It is a wrong assumption, to say rarely. A few people in my class have some pretty serious health concerns. I am not proselytizing for Yoga. Seriously do Piliates instead. I am tired of it misrepresented in the general culture. Especially tired when it comes from people like the cardinal. He doesn't have a good grasp of Catholicism, you should not take him seriously about Yoga. I respectfully disagree with you, about poses. However your explanations of Contemplation are excellent, and hope someone reading this is drawn into a deeper prayer life.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:30 PM By Alberto
Pray for Cardinal Mahony.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 3:34 PM By cubeland mystic
John Sillasen, Now you are getting into another subject. I think in the next 20 years there is a going to be a lot of pressure to begin Euthanizing people due to expense. Since our country seems to be willing to embracing the culture of death, euthanizing the sick and dying will be the next logical step. I am trying stay healthy and avoid the physician so that my kids won't have to be forced to chose between their own poverty to keep me alive and having to sign the order to kill their dad. Call me crazy but the way Americans embrace materialism, I see no reason why they would not chose this as a way of dealing with the old. If our culture can tolerate the skewering of an 8 month old baby, then they certainly can tolerate speeding up the inevitable. The stage is set for it. Make fun all you want, but I think we've grown a little to used to the culture of death to stop this next logical step. I am just practicing a little preventative medicine.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 4:55 PM By John L. Sillasen
cubeland mystic, with my own father's last few weeks in a hospital, we belatedly realized that the staff will cheat ... in the direction of death. So, it's not simply what the law says ... beware of the tricks of those in the business of maximizing profits off the old and sick.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 5:04 PM By John L. Sillasen
cubeland mystic, do you include aerobic? That's the most important part. I've made an informal study on the neck issue over the past couple years. Here are some observations and hypotheses: I live near a large retirement community, and daily see the old folks and how they manage their bodies (in public, how they walk around). One of the first things that seems to go is the strength to hold the head up and not have it bob about and tweak the neck from sudden body movement. It seems to me that the problem is the waning of upper body strength ... especially the upper back and neck muscles. I have no problem running up and down hills, but have found lately that I need to condition the upper part also. Free weights was my routine back in the day, and so I'm reviving it ... along with basic calesthenics such as what one gets in grade school or the military. Here is an interesting link, possibly of some value to you, which I've begun to refer to: The Stretching Plan, Stew Smith http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,90136,00.html
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 5:39 PM By Richard
Cubeland,
I would say your type of yoga is definitely different than the type I would say is harmful to the spiritual life. It also sounds as if you are clear about how your yoga used for physical workouts is different from other forms of yoga. Considering your clarity on this matter, I would say that I cannot really say whether the yoga practice is harmful or helpful to the spiritual life. I am flattered you think someone may pursue a deep spiritual life based on what I write. Now if only I could practice it as well as I speak about it... God bless, Richard
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 5:57 PM By cubeland mystic
John, May God protect your father. Yes aerobic too. I can still run and ride my bike. My injuries are in the upper back akin to whiplash. Yes you are correct aerobic is most important. Diet too. Sugar makes you fat, juice, candy. Try to eat chastely. Try is the key word. I checked out those stretches, they are good. In ahh, eeehr, aah, my pilates class there is a version of the stomach strech. It's also good for the lower back muscles. We hold it for a lot longer. We works the abs a lot. Mostly leg lifts held for minutes. One time we did abs for 45 minutes. A lot of the exercises in my class have corresponding ones in the combat arts. Like back bridges. It builds the upper body muscles. I think body weight is best because you don't need a lot of gear. Try to get your shoulders in shape through calisthenics. Look at Jack LaLane he's like 90's and still going.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 6:11 PM By cubeland mystic
John, You shouldn't have to be defending your father's life from the hospital staff. I think they do try to kill the sick. A lot of old people are afraid of their doctors. I found a doc who is pro-life NFP certified Roman Catholic. I felt safe for the first time in years. In addition to priestly vocations, we have to start promoting doctor and lawyer vocations too. A lot of times there are docs who have a vocation but then head to the third world. Maybe it is time for an order of physician priests and lay physicians whose vocation is to the advanced societies of the west. We don't need the cardinal for that. I'll pray for your dad/family tonight.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:09 PM By Denis
Thirty years after receiving a mantra through TM I happened upon a book with the word in English. For one half hour every morning and one half hour every evening I had been calling upon a demon! No wonder my marriage would soon fall apart. Thank God for the Roman Catholic Church (Cardinal Mahoney should pay attention) that would bring my family healing.
And thank you Javier, for directing readers to the excellent article by the Indian Fr. James Manjackal, PhD: http://www.jmanjackal.net/eng/engyoga.htm. We all need to read it - beginning with His Eminence!
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:31 PM By John L. Sillasen
Thanks, cubeland, but he checked out 18 years ago, at age 79. I hope he made it to Purgatory, even though he didn't practice religion; he was a good man, and sacrificed for his wife and children. He was always afraid of doctors and hospitals. I'm the only known Catholic in my family tree, so it was especially difficult dealing with the deaths of both parents with family and inlaws of all sorts of religions. For all I know, both he and Mom are stuck over in Mormon Heaven; and then there's another sister who might have gotten them both into the new age "cosmic spirit". My brothers, like my late Dad, believe death is it, and no afterlife anywhere. There was a tiny thread of Christianity that ran through my family, and likely is what I responded to. Think I'll pull up a Jack Lalane youtube site and check it out.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:38 PM By Salvatore G.
I have forwarded this E Mail To The Santo Padre At
secreteria.lev@lev.va ( That is the Vatican )
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 7:40 PM By Janek
This man is no Cardinal, come people 40 years ago this guy would have been called a NUT! and booted out of the Roman Catholic Church, but because of Vatican 2 he is the norm. Come on now dancing nuns with incense bowls, glass pitchers, bread baskets, lesbians, gays, women running parishes, teen life "masses" more like rock concerts, not one saint would recognise his shows and I call them shows not Masses because they are not!! Yes it is up to us the true holders of the Holy Roman Catholic faith to fight to get it back. Bring back our Traditional Latin Mass, altar rails, statues, high-altars, crucifixes, kneelers, Gregorian chant, and everything that was and did make us Roman Catholics the TRUE CHURCH!!!
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:05 PM By Clare
Well....How many of you ranting and raving have sent a letter to the pope asking for his removal? What doea a little blog do? Write a letter!
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 8:16 PM By Clare
Hey....if you think this is only in California you are being mislead as well. My relatives in Minnesota and elsewhere were telling us of these things way before they hit California. You are not immune! either.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:26 PM By cubeland mystic
The overall issue is that Cardinal Mahoney's brand of Catholicism doesn't really inspire or inform Catholics enough to want to challenge the culture of death. All of the things that make Catholicism a "vibrant" religion, the progressives have discarded. They want dancing and women priests, and environmental activism. Political gender equity is not really something to get you out of bed at 4AM to pray. It is ironic that some of the most important Catholics of the 20C were orthodox Catholic nuns. St. Faustina, Blessed Teresa of Calcutta, and Mother Angelica come to mind. Perhaps Dorthy Day might be on the progressive side. Can someone validate that? It is just going to take a long time to regain ground. The Holy Spirit, Time, and virtue are on our side.
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Posted Saturday, March 08, 2008 9:35 PM By cubeland mystic
Here is a tiny little step. Instead of bowing, I genuflect before I receive the Eucharist. My little five year boy, is usually behind me. One day I look behind me, to see him kneel beneath the Eucharist and cross himself. I never told him to do that. He does now most of the time, we make no mention of it. It is completely his own thing. Somehow he knows he kneels before God. It's such a powerful sign. Small little acts of piety will help to return us to orthodoxy. What are the progressives going to do tell him not to kneel before God?
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Posted Sunday, March 09, 2008 6:33 PM By Joe s.
Richard, Cubeland, The ends do not justify the means. There is NO safe level of envolvement in yoga. Yoga is a gateway drug to the occult. It is that simple. Yoga has it's very foundation cemented in Hinduism. Hinduism is not compatible with catholic teaching. Cubeland should confess this during his next Confession. But most importantly renounce yoga. However, most likely it'll be difficult for you to drop Yoga because it does cause an addiction. See if you can go cold Turkey for a couple of weeks. I'd bet that would be intresting.
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Posted Sunday, March 09, 2008 9:39 PM By John L. Sillasen
I've been around yoga people a lot, who are not Christian, and who have various new age beliefs both formal and informal. To me, exercise is exercise; to carry it out in the context of yoga or some other venue that compromises one's spiritual integrity would not be my recommendation. As to how dangerous such stuff is to one's spiritual life, well, how strong is the individual in terms of the spiritual enemy which might be present in some invisible way? The social dimension providing motivation can be good, but what is the price? If the others are not Christians, then what are they charging for your benefit of motivation? And what is their motivation? Remember, we are in a spiritual war, and there are no time outs ... if your yoga partners are not Christians, then they are moving according to the tune of the devil, whether they know it or not.
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Posted Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:16 PM By John L. Sillasen
(Copied from other thread) Fr. M.P., I'm not exactly isolated in a classic meditative surrounding. I began the book, and noticed one of my dogs staring up at me. At some point I realized that animals kind of sometimes do this when one enters into some spiritual meditation. It seems this way, but it is hard for me to say for sure. It might reflect on what St John says about "escaping unseen" into his dark night. The body settles down, and the animal notices this. In my case, this dog would perceive me as less of an issue to come and investigate. I can say from experience, and I don't mind saying this, that spiritual meditation in God will produce some interesting changes in one's "aura" or whatever one wants to call it. Since animals are not hostile to God, I have no problem with them being around me in such a situation when I can become vulnerable to hostility ... and in fact, it is comforting to have dogs, eg, around in this situation. Along the same line of thought, when one practices yoga (other thread) one focuses on something such as doing exercises or a demon or whatever they chose. Even if the focus is a material thing such as stretching one's limbs, when one is in the company of others, there is going to be interaction. Our bodies are not actually separate from our minds, souls, hearts ... and so the spiritual dimension is on line, so to speak ... and with our focus not on God at the moment, it is possible for a hostile entity to cross our threshold of defense. So, yoga or things similar to it would sometimes provide a breach in our spiritual life which could be scaled by hostile powers, influences, authorities, etc. Come to think of it, this might also apply to the commotion prevalent in some novus ordo Masses ... where those trying to pray become vulnerable to whatever could be lurking in the commotion. So, here in one post is an argument against raucus liturgies ... and which St Paul or one of the apostles rules against also.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 6:09 AM By cubeland mystic
Joe S., It's the other way around. Hinduism has its foundation cemented in Yoga. One small forgotten branch of Yoga were the asanas. I exercise that's it. Johnette Benkovic has done some good work in the new age and occult. I largely agree with you. I agree with Johnette's take. Americanized yoga is a mixture of physical postures and some form of meditation. Best to stay away. I do postures once a week. I think what you are saying is the act of doing an upward facing dog pose is evil while doing the stomach stretch that John Sillasen pointed out is not.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 6:19 AM By cubeland mystic
As far as cold turkey and adiction, I have to force myself to go. It's very painful. We don't do meditation. It's more like martial arts. Do this, pretend you are going to sit on a chair, get your thighs about 90 degrees with your lower legs. Thighs should be parallel to the floor. Pretend your hands are handcuffed behind your back. Hold that for 90 seconds without passing out, then talk to me about TM and being relaxed.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 6:36 AM By cubeland mystic
The reason I jumped on this thread is because the Cardinal is recommending the type of Yoga that could be dangerous. From what I can tell what I do is more orthodox, and less Americanized. There is no TM, no meditation, no thought control. Just hard work, and it is paying off with respect to my health. I took the whole month of December off with no problems. Perhaps American Yoga is a gateway drug to the occult, but with respect to Indians and Hinduism it is not. Indians don't widely practice the poses nor do they practice the occult. I more concerned about invalid Masses, and the adulteration of Catholicism than exercise. Americans practice cafeteria Yoga. That is what you are rightly concerned about.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 5:59 PM By Joe S.
Hey Cubeland, Speaking of Johnette Benkovic. My Gang sponsored her Twice to speak in our area about the dangers of the new age. Matter of fact she spent a lengthy time on the dangers of yoga. Matter of fact, Johnette kept saying over and over, " There is NO safe level of envolvement in yoga!" She was an oustanding speaker. If anyone would like to sponser her. tell her you want her to speak solely about the new Age. Outstanding. Cubeland ... I would rather almost pass out while pulling 9 G's in an aircraft than subject myself to yoga. Point in case, do you get some kinda high out of almost passing out? HINDUISM IS A PAGAN RELIGION FULL OF GODS AND GODDESSES. How do you rationalize away the truth on this? Your own church identifies it with the occult. Hey wait a minute Cubeland, Do you believe in reincarnation?
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 7:17 PM By John L. Sillasen
cubeland mystic, why then do you call it yoga? What is yoga about what you do? What does the word, "yoga", mean? Is what you do really yoga? I don't think this thread has been exhausted nearly at all yet.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 8:21 PM By cubeland mystic
Joe, what I described is wrestling exercise. Most military types I've known have been pretty fluent in sports or combat exercise. What I described is a wall-chair, the only thing you develop is mental toughness. My point is you cannot meditate at all. Do you have a concern about mental toughness. If you're a combat pilot don't you want mental toughness? Is it the word Yoga or can I say pose? I never said Hindu religion wasn't pagan. I am not sure that it is though. I don't believe in reincarnation.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 9:38 PM By John L. Sillasen
cubeland mystic: Wall chair? How does such exercise produce mental toughness? And btw, what is your take on traditional pushups vs what used to be called girl pushups, where the body is lifted from the knees instead of the toes? Is this why I am hearing that teen agers and Marine boots can turn out a hundred or more pushups? I was pretty good at them back in the day and only pumped out a few more than fifty. I did three or four regular ones yesterday morning, and strained my lower back a tad. So, I don't know if it's really bad for the back, or the strain was nothing more than "good" pain.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 10:57 PM By cubeland mystic
The word yoga is a Sanskrit word that means to yoke. I think yoking you with the eternal. Most people think that yoga is about doing the Lotus position and meditating. It's not really. Most of yoga is just about meditation. The vast majority of it is. American Yoga is a cafeteria style mixture of new age philosophy. The old school orthodox stuff from India, the poses prepare you physically for mediation and prayer. I've never denied that link. From what I have heard and read is that the more spiritual aspects of Yoga deny that the asanas have any spiritual value at all. I only have one teacher, I avoid new age stuff since they don't know much about anatomy.
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Posted Monday, March 10, 2008 11:25 PM By cubeland mystic
john, my slightly educated guess is yoga was developed first as a martial art. The conditioning and healing arts were co-opted by monks around the time of Christ, at that time there was not such a thing as what we call Hinduism then. That is relatively new. I am not sure why poses were co-opted most likely to heal and condition. With a wall chair you have to will your body to stay to do it for longer periods of time. It's like fasting. There is a component of the will. Your lower back and abs are weak. Try some girly pushups for awhile, until you are strong enough to do them regular. Or Just hold the pushup for awhile and raise your rear in the air to put the weight on your hips and legs. The important thing is that you stay healthy and keep your mind clear from prescription drugs.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 12:46 AM By yengofbaguio
instead of doing yoga,why not use the time to meditate on the teachings of the bible,that's time very well spent instead of trying positions that intend to contort the human body,we are human beings,not snakes,the hindus praise lower animals and make them gods,which i find strange,and then try to be like these animals by physically trying to mimick their natural movements...i hope the practitioners of yoga won't evolve and grow tails,let's pray for their spiritual renewal.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:43 AM By Fr. M.P.
cubeland mystic (CM) illustrates how we can make room for our idolatries by compartmentalizing God in our life. CM gives God some part of their life but likes to hold onto the eastern pagan religion based system for parts of the body. CM thinks that the pagan god based system is better for the body and sees no harm in it. This has elements of syncretism and indifferentism - I'll pick and choose what I like since things are, well, close enough anyway. What's the big deal if a kundalini serpent goes up my spine? What's the big deal with goddess power or serpent power? The true God is also God of our body too. True mysticism is not achieved through human techniques - we can never get close to, or control the real God by techniques, or "OMs," or whatever self-hypnotic repeated phrase we pick, nor whatever pretzel form we place our bodies, or how we breathe. Instead God acts over and above our capabilities as He chooses when we allow Him with our free will. You won't ever find a saint that has done yoga, will you? If yoga is so good for a Catholic, then many saints should have done it, especially since it has been around many centuries. You will find yoga-ists talk spirituality. But God talks holiness. See the difference?
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 4:30 PM By Pre-Boomer
As an old-time Catholic and a former seminarian during the "good old days" of our faith in the early 1960's, I learned one very important rule of Catholicism that is very seldom published - never attack a priest. As we all have lives that are difficult in many ways, priests have difficulties "in spades". As humans they do things right and they do things wrong. Some decisions and statements that they make are right on the money and some fail miserably to meet the mark. But they all have the common background of having received the call to the priesthood, stepped forward to accept their calling, and received the indelible mark of ordination on their souls. It is easy to criticize and attack someone who says something that you know is off the mark or completely wrong. At that point, thank Our Lord that your faith has been strengthened enough to know what is right from what is wrong. And let the Holy Trinity take the lead in chastising and correcting an errant priest - remember that in spite of how great we think our observations are and our recommendations to straighten up "those guys" - God is still in charge. The best thing that you can do for a priest who's gone astray in some ways is to do some serious praying and fasting for him to come back around. God can and will handle the rest. Peace be with you all.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:26 PM By cubeland mystic
Fr M.P. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a priest. I don't practice Kundalini yoga. I do poses, without all the spiritual stuff. I have pretty severe upper back pain, and western therapies like to apply drugs and surgery for lots of money. The poses really help and lessens the pain, There's no new new age stuff going on only exercise. There is no meditation either. Just poses stretching. It is true that the asanas come from Yoga, but there is no spiritual stuff going on. Just hard work. There's a man with M.S. and a woman who recovered from breast cancer in my class too. I find it hard to believe that I am going to hell because I do what is essentially calisthenics to heal my body. Again the asanas are used to strengthen the body for prayer, what ever pseudo science was attributed them a long time ago about energy and was probably and attempt to merge medicine with mysticism.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 5:44 PM By cubeland mystic
My guess is the asanas were developed for martial arts and for healing. I doubt seriously the other way around. There are some pretty good upper back stretches that I could never figure out on my own. The other problem is that every studio has their own take. They are like protestants, they interpret what they want, and include what they want. Most physical "yoga" done in the country is more about beauty than about spiritual enlightenment. In my case its about physical healing. I exercise and stretch. You are wrong about my motives and what I do, however I do agree with just about everything else you say Fr MP.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 6:23 PM By John L. Sillasen
This latest exchange has brought to light some further points to me. One is the origin of "poses". A pose is like a form of expression, like a prehistoric glyph, or pictograph, an ideogram (a far eastern language character), a hieroglyph. We see modern versions daily in our advertising world, and in movies ... moreso in still shots. A pose is an image which is like a musical note that is exact, depicting a "note in the musical score which is nature", only a visual form -- recall the symbolic cave drawings as examples. Two, animism is the religous system from which Hinduism springs. Graven images were condemned in Mosaic Law. There was a reason for that. Cultures which imitate animals are totem cultures ... European cultures are rife with totem symbols. Totems are hierarchical. If somebody masters your totem, then they gain power over you. That would be the danger of "poses" ... but there are benign conditions as well as malignant conditions. Further, the Kama Sutra would be a system of poses ... Poses would, like components of any language, be made to "say" almost anything ... question always comes down to the authority of the situation.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:14 PM By Christopher Zehnder
I know little to nothing about yoga, but it does not seem outlandish to say that certain techniques that some use while engaging in forms of dangerous meditation may not be separated from that meditation and used for good. One may bow to an idol, or to Buddha; but that doesn't make bowing pagan or Buddhist, for we also bow to an icon of Christ. Why couldn't the same be true of techniques used in yoga?
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:32 PM By cubeland mystic
John, I think it is a bit of a stretch. What is more likely is these postures, poses, positions, etc were used for health purposes. If you could not, hunt, farm, or fight you were essentially dead. I sore back could be just as dangerous to the life of your family as marauders. The knowledge migrated into eastern monastic systems and was incorporated into their religions. Hinduism is a highly developed religion, they don't worship animals. Not you John, but some folks above have said some pretty uncharitable things about Hinduism. Their ethical system is pretty darn close to the natural law. Also the Protestants make the same arguments against us.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:03 PM By John L. Sillasen
" ... a bit of a stretch ... " Absolutely hilarious pun!!! I'd fall off my chair laughing and rolling on the floor but my dogs would jump me and lick me beyond mercy ... which I can't stand. Natural man has a long history of managing the animal world. In that development, he has sometimes veered off into the area of imitation of the animals. But mainly he has used his knowledge to "husband" the animals, hunting them, herding them, fishing for them, learning a lot from them, training them ... and much much more (sounds like a sales pitch, I guess). Today a few people study and involve themselves with animals, and the vast majority watch the TV programs on it while feeding their goldfish. So, most folks learn about animals from the scientists on TV who have all sorts of concocted ideas designed to bring home their next funding grant. Idolatry and adultery are the big issues with images and animals ... the golden calf and so forth. I like to refer to the tale of St Francis of Assisi preaching a sermon to the birds which all gathered in the forest to hear him. This succinctly instructs us on man's relationship to the animals. Hmn, why am I wandering into the subject of animals? It is because of the pagan animistic religions from which great civilizations arose prior to Christianity ... if they handle the natural world well enough, then they grow great; if not, then they perish or never develop. This yoga stuff is related to the natural world, which teems with animals. And so, it seems to me that there is a lot of value but a lot of spiritual danger -- Satan has used everything he can to divert us to evil, to perversion, to distortion, to deception, and to false worship. Can yoga be "baptized" would be the question, maybe.
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Posted Tuesday, March 11, 2008 10:11 PM By cubeland mystic
Did you ever do a "crab" or a "duck walk" playing football or wrestling? Down dog is a famous asana, looks like when your dog stretches after sleep. I don't think it is more than that. Less controversial is Kung Fu, I think all of their fighting styles are named after animals. Like Crane, monkey etc. The point I've been trying to make since the beginning is that the Cardinal not only avoids Catholic Orthodoxy, but misunderstands other religions' orthodoxy. I think a lot of Hindus see no spiritual value in the asanas. It's the western new agers who co-opt it into a big stew and call it Yoga. The other yogas, don't really have a vigorous physical practice associated with them. I think there is a lot of health science in physical yoga, they are very big on correct alignment. I think the physical aspects can be extracted, which they already do, renamed and incorporated into physical therapy.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 12:17 PM By Joe S.
Cubeland, I don,t see any reason to doubt Fr. M.P. as be ing a priest. His points hit the mark. It would appear by your own writings that you being Catholic should come into question. Catholicism is a DISCIPLINE one follows to be able to rightfully carry the name. So too are all other forms of religion. They are all Disciplines. You are projecting a confused desire to hang onto your Hinduism. It is like a fellow joining the Army but showing up to work in a Navy uniform. Or like a Pilot's worst nightmare ...VIRTIGO. The pilot generally enters into Virtigo when in fouled up weather conditions or night time, or over Oceans (blue sky, blue water). He loses the horizon. Right away, the mind plays tricks and up becomes down, Level might be upside down. Right might become left. While in level flight your mind is telling you that the airplane is upside down And if you don't make the corrections to right the airplane you will soon be in big trouble. Your Attitude gyro is telling you that you are straight and level but your mind talks you into thinking that the instrument is wrong. So you put in your the corrections that FEEL are good for you and you end up planting the airplane into the ground killing yourself. Most folks driving a car have experienced Virtigo, while looking down at your lap waiting for the red light to turn. The guy in the next lane starts rolling forward and suddenly your mind tells you that it is your car that is moving and you find yourself slamming on the brakes. I would identify your case as SPIRITUAL VIRTIGO. Your CHURCH (attitude Gyro) will always point you to straight and level flight. You are projecting feelings of Spiritual Virtigo. You seem to be heading for a tail spin. I would warn anyone who climbs on board as a passenger with you for a flight. Your writings Project that you are in awe of Hinduism.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 1:14 PM By Joe S.
Cubeland, At the end of Confession as an act of contrition, we promise to Our Lord ..."I firmly resolve with the help of thy Grace, to sin no more, and to AVOID THE NEAR OCCASION OF SIN." This means that we will avoid placing ourselves into a situation that leaves us tempted to go back to our old ways. Perhaps you might consider making a clean brake with your Hindu background and join with Our Lord on His Cross. Our Church is the pillar and foundation of TRUTH, not Hinduism. Hinduism is centered around the teaching of reincarnation while scipture clearly states that it appointed for man to die ONCE and then comes the judgement. The Hindus spend a life time trying to shed bad KARMA so they can find their god within so as to be able to join with the god FORCE. Remember Star Wars? May the force be with you. What concept do think they where using when spouting that line? It's also a direct mocking of our Churches "May the LORD be with you." Hinduism teaches the lie of the Serpent in the Garden. "You too can become like God." Hindus Through their search for self godship become more "into" themselves and thus become more and more SELFISH. Why do you think India has so many Dead and Dying laying around in the streets. Hinduism teaches that these people are full of bad Karma and there is no point helping them. Remember the Sisters of Charity? They point to our churches end result of being SELFLESS. To be selfless even towards giving one's life for someone else. FIND ME A CHARITABLE HINDU. And by the way what ever form of yoga you are discipled to, you ARE taking on the Kundilini serpent. You are, wheather feel it or not, Involved in the occult. By the way Yoga does not mean yoking " with the eternal". It means Yoking (addicting)you with the discipline. And yoking you to your Guru. Mixing Eastern religion with Christianty has been done before. It's called Gnostocism.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:08 PM By Joe S.
Zehnder, The positions Have been developed from Hinduism Kundilni Yoga. Each position is entered in an attempt to arouse the Kundilini serpent up from the base of ones spine towards the top of ones head. Along the way the kundilini opens up "CHAKRAS" (pschycic center points) throughout the body. Another goal is to join shiva and shakti, the female and male "spheres" of the disciple together in union. Also, as the kundilini enters one's head it is said to open up ones "THIRD EYE", in turn, realizing the god within. This in turn joins shiva shakti with "KALI THE DESTROYER", a demonic moon goddess. Now, physologically, studies have shown that the these positions along with the meditation ALTER your mind. Basically, Your're sending yourself on an eternal mind trip. Spiritually you are setting yourself up for spiritual possession. Hindu Gurus Are selling Yoga as exercise to the rest of the world so as to move forward Hinduism. Here in the U.S., Many bastardizations of kundilini yoga have taken hold preaching exercise. The Hindu Gurus don't care for it, but are looking the other way because Hinduism is taking hold in the U.S.. Any other style of Yoga has its origens with Kundilini Yoga and thus Hinduism. This is what cubeland as fallen for, ...what appears to be harmless exercise. Will he ever come out from Hinduism or has his mind been too far blown out. Cubeland is dealing with a pretty tough case of rationalism (everyone is right even if they are saying complete opposite things). Cubeland is fighting Spiritual Virtigo.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 2:34 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Mr. S,
these positions do all this automatically? Even if one has no intention to arouse the Kundilini serpent, it just automatically comes? Even if someone unknowingly assumes these positions, all this will happen to him? You seem to be claiming that these positions are intrinsically evil.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 3:27 PM By Joe S.
Zehnder, Yoga is Hinduism. These positions are inteaded blow your mind. The meditation is intended to enable one to enter into the positions. Some are not easy to get into. The kundilini is injected from the poses. A false religion is connected with the kundilini. Many new agers associate gods and goddesses with demons. Wheather one wishes it or not, they are inviting in the demonic. Same as the Ougi Board, wheather the intention is there or not, The individual is inviting in the demonic. And on the other side. One who takes communion at mass, takes Our Lord, wheather the intention is there or not. The religious ritual behind the yoga is anti- Christ. My friends bought a house from a Hindu family. My friends are strong Catholics. Things started going wrong in the house. Their little girl began being tormented by something in the house only the little girl could see. The mother described to me what her little girl said was tormenting her. I said, "Gee, that sounds like Kali the Destroyer. I did not know the former owners were Hindu. The Mother nor the daughter were familiar with Kali or Hinduism. I explained that Kali is a godess in Hinduism. The mother showed the daughter different pictures of dieties. The little girl Identified KALI. The parish priest, who believes in the demonic, intervened with prayers and blessings of both the house and family. If you research the subject of hindu gods and goddesses you will find that they identify with them as angels. We know the Holy Angels do not serve two masters. We also involk St. Micheal to thrust into Hell "All the evil spirits which prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls."
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:09 PM By John L. Sillasen
Like the word, "gay", a word which was hijacked, these body positions may well be hijacked. St James or St Paul said that there is nothing intrinsically wrong with eating food sacrificed to idols ... but that if it would give bad witness to others, then it should not be done.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 4:14 PM By cubeland mystic
I don't remember the "Sisters of Charity". Are they like Blessed Mother Teresa's Missionaries Of Charity? I didn't know that about Karma either. How do we explain the extreme poverty, dead and dying in Catholic countries like Philippines, Mexico, Brazil, and the various African countries just to name a few?
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 5:35 PM By Joe S.
Cubeland, You got the point on the sisters. The Catholic Church is at constant spiritual warfare in these countries mentioned. Remember, we are identified as The "Church IN the Philippines, IN Mexico, IN Brasil, and not The Church OF the Philippines, Of Mexico, or OF Brazil. Muslims have been waging war against the Church IN the Phil.. The Marxist Dictatorship in Mexico has slaughtered thousands of Catholics for years. In all these countries mentioned you are'nt trying to accuse this church for the drug wars, the different fammines, The storms, volcanos,diseases, The cultures themselves, or the communist insurgents are you? By gosh, Cubeland, think about this. If everyone in the world followed Catholic teachings in every aspect of the disciplines then there wouldn't be any problems like over population, birth out of wedlock, abortions, stds, massive poverty, genocide, and such. The impovrrished would be cared for, and the dead and dying would be dignified. Now, if the world were Hindu, you would have world wide poverty, and world wide dead and dying in the streets. All of humanity would consume itself. Name one so called "Catholic" country in Africa.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 6:38 PM By John L. Sillasen
Jesus says that the poor will always be with us. Economically, there will always be scraps for marginal people to survive on. Politically, poverty can be eliminated by killing the poor. This is what the followers of Margaret Sanger are trying to do through abortion, but there are other means employed, such as restricting the food shipments meant to feed the poor, or advocating policies which increase AIDS and other catastrophic diseases, or civil wars, or other kinds of genocidal wars, or spending zillions on adding a few years to old people, at the expense of zillions of young starving people.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 7:07 PM By Doug
For a church leader to: 1) have NO courage to vote against pro-death/choice politicians, 2) side-step papal disobedience, 3) seemingly support married priests, 4) agree to more diverse and disrespectful fun worship services, and 5) back/encourage Buddhist practices, goes to show the state of the V2 clergy. How much deeper will the V2 church sink? Not one holy catholic answer! Mahoney ought to defend the true catholic faith, but like all other imposter V2 cardinals and bishops, he is a politician, a pied piper leading the remaining blind faithful into the temporary world and not to eternity in heaven. Happily, many conservative catholic blogs state the truth; but sadly the blind liberal catholic blogs spin the truth. Without Our Lord and His Blessed Mother leading us, we are lost and doomed, there is no hope for us. By placing Them above all else, (especially self) seeking forgiveness, and amending our sinful ways to follow God's Holy Will, we will see God in Heaven for eternity! Do not abandon the true Catholic Faith, but seek to find Our Lord and His Blessed Mother in true quiet God-centered Roman Catholic Parishes. The devil is behind the church destruction so pray: “August Queen of Heaven, Sovereign Mistress of the Angels, who didst receive from the beginning the mission and the power to crush the serpent’s head, we beseech thee to send Thy holy Angels, that under Thy command and by Thy power they may pursue the evil spirits, encounter them on every side, resist their bold attacks, and drive them hence into the abyss of woe. Most holy Mother, send Thy angles to defend us and to drive the cruel enemy from us. All ye holy Angels and Archangels help and defend us. Amen. O good and tender Mother! Thou shalt ever be our Love and our Hope. Holy Angels and Archangels keep and defend us. Amen. Nihil Obstat: Arthur Scanlon, S.T.D Imprimatur: Patrick Cardinal Hayes Archbishop of NY 5 Sep 1936
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:09 PM By Joe S.
Doug, what is your understanding of why the Woman of Apoc. Ch. 12 has the moon at her feet?
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 9:48 PM By cubeland mystic
I am not blaming the church, but those countries can be rightfully perceived as Catholic countries by non-Christians. Muslims have been waging war against the Indians for centuries too. A non-Christian could make the exact same arguments you are making, and they do. I think Rwanda had a Catholic or Christian majority. I just can't remember if our side was doing the killing or being killed or both. Uganda, Kenya, Nigeria all have large Catholic populations. I think Africa is experiencing the largest growth in the church today.
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Posted Wednesday, March 12, 2008 10:05 PM By cubeland mystic
Joe, I do disagree with you on another point. I think that the government in Mexico was less marxist and more fascist. I may be wrong, but I think Mexico was/is more an aligned with fascism than marxism. Nevertheless a murdering pack of materialists. I think they are very closely aligned with our own murderous pro-death politicians. If you add up the abortions and assume just 5% were late term over the years that's about 2.5 million babes. Not bad for the "shining city on the a hill". We really shouldn't be hurling stones at Hindus, we have enough blood and shame on our own hands in the west. Blaming their religion when they've only been independent for the last 60 years or so is fairly weak. Anyone under 50 reading this will most likely be faced with dealing with Euthanasia. It won't be called that, it will be called something benign and scientific sounding, how about "cease therapy". You'll be asked to sign a "cease therapy" protocol on yourself or a loved one. Sure you can pay the $1000 dollars a day if you got it, but the government won't and neither will the insurance.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:08 AM By Mary
Cardinal Mahoney continues to be an embarassment. Let us pray that either Rome or God intervenes.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 12:36 PM By Doug
Joe S. I've never looked into it nor thought about it. What are your thoughts? Right after I read your question the first thing that popped into my head was Islam. Islam uses the sign of the cresent moon which you are asking about. Perhaps it is a sign of her crushing the greatest and menacing organized evil that exists in todays world -- Islam? We need to pray to our Blessed Mother for World peace and conversions of the Muslims, Buddhists and other pagan religions, only then will we avoid the next war that is looming on the horizon. We need to stop adopting their pagan practices and get back to true catholic worship, faith, and practices. Visit traditiocom for a Tridentine Latin Mass location directory. May Almighty God bless us with holy shephards and lead us on His heavenly path, not our own.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 1:41 PM By Joe S.
Cubeland, Your perceptions are all wrong here. The only thing we can attest to in these "Catholic" countries is that the majority of its peoples (Catholics) are being persicuted by their oppressive governments. The only country that the Catholic Church governs is Vatican City. The Catholic Church sports the honor of having the OLDEST surviving Governmental System in the history of the World. Of course, we are a church of sinners. Of course, we have had our failures. But we have always survived. That in itself can attest to The Churches claim to be guided by the Holy Ghost. Hey Cubeland, "Blaming their religion when they've only been independent for the last 60 years."????? what the heck does that mean? You just stated that the Hindus have been around for centuries. What does the 60 years Independedence of India have to do with the centuries old Anti- Christian religion of Hinduism? Your arguement is full of holes. "Here in the West"?? Again, The Catholic discipline does not cause death and dying in the streets. However, the same can't be said for for the Hindu discipline. It's just a matter of fact. The Hindu disciplines breed selfishness and self cunsumption.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 6:27 PM By John L. Sillasen
Alexander the Great, c. 4th century BC, found India to be extremely strange, and also China ... extremely unlike the west or middle east. Animism, which both countries have taken to abstract levels "above" actual animals, puts people in touch with a great deal of the nature created by God for our management. Where the west began to develop the sense of personality, the east and India rather developed animistic cults and built upon these. Much of this stuff is discussed in both Old Testament and New Testament ... reference all the symbols ... these are not vacant of meaning but denote cultures and civilizations, idols and so forth. Consider the dragon, eg ... a construct or what? But there are Catholic strongholds among civilizations that stemmed out of the far east ... eg Mexico and the Philipines.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:18 PM By cubeland mystic
India and China and other Asian countries are absolutely booming and have been for the last 20 years. Mexico is our neighbor, where's the boom there? The people run the countries where's the salt and yeast in that society? It's not like the local sheriff, town garbage collector, and local merchants suddenly join the masons to get their jobs. I am not saying that predominantly Catholic countries are corrupted by the faith, I am saying that someone could draw that conclusion. Since Indians have governed India, the country has prospered. I don't agree that Hinduism breeds selfishness and self consumption. If it did Mother Teresa could not have gotten a start in Calcutta.It was mostly Hindus that helped her out. There is also a pretty good Catholic elementary school system in India. My understanding is that those are the schools that Hindu parents want their kids to attend. The Catholic faith does not cause death and dying in the streets, but in our hemisphere those countries that have families picking through garbage dumps, sleeping inches from open sewers, or trafficking in human vice.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:29 PM By cubeland mystic
one last point, before we can start pointing out the flaws of other cultures and their religions we need to straighten out our own. We don't have dying in our streets because we kill the unwanted unborn, and soon we will kill the old. I certainly can join you in criticizing the Cardinal for his lack of vision. For not stressing these moral abominations to his sheep he has some culpability in our society's evils. When the LA diocese published its abuse report, I searched for words like evil, satan, devil, sin, and also words like Jesus, God, Holy Spirit. I did not find any of the diabolical words, and the holy words were few, mostly occurred in the names of the orders to which the abusers belonged. It was all psychological junk. if our faith cannot inform the culture then what's the point.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 8:34 PM By John L. Sillasen
cubeland mystic, where the west is rejecting Christianity, India seems to be opening to it. Interesting to "peek" into the "future" and wonder how it would be if the Church were to become completely suppressed in the west, yet began to flourish in India.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 9:46 PM By Joe S.
John, Cortez found Central American indian cultures horrific. He observed first hand the slaughter of thousands being sacrificed.
Cubeland, We ARE trying to straighten out our religion by exposing to Catholics the errors of yoga. You can help out by quiting yoga and renouncing it to your confessor. Take up some other form of exercise. are you implying that the Catholic church kills the unwanted unborn? Are you implying that the Catholic church will soon kill the old. You keep mixing in Church matters with secular Government matters. Example, There are Catholics ,who, being married under the catholic authority get divorced under local state governmental authority (judges). Again Spiritual Vertigo. It is impossible for a judge to dissolve a Sacremental bond. To further drive this point home to the "Catholic in error", one simply can ask the Catholic if he thinks a judge can dissolve his sacremental Baptism. Of course not! The mixing of authoities needs to be avoided. What do the successes and failures of the Asian and Mexican goverments have to do with the Catholic or Hindu faiths. The only trend established by these Goverments is their extreme hate of Catholics. If you re-read my posts, you will find that I have not even spoken of the Cardinal. not a word. The one thing I will say is that many religous are ignorant about the New Age and Yoga as you are. We should not hesitate to educate them as you are being. I hope you can shed off the "Old man". Your responsibilty for your Yogic actions has increased. Perhaps you can no longer plead ignorance about the dangers of yoga when you face Our Lord come the judgement. I sure hope you don't think that you'll be facing Buddha or some other Guru.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:06 PM By Joe S.
Doug, I almost missed your last post. Well, There isn't any official "last word" by the Church as to who this Woman is but ,of course, as you know, most Catholic writings identify this Woman as Our Lady or The Church. We are still free to investigate the meaning of the Woman until Our Church takes an official stand. My research followed the Woman as being Our Lady. Many writers agree on the meaning of the crown of stars; clothed with the sun; and being with child. They are pretty obvious. But the weak explanations, I have found, concern the Moon. Very few writers agree with each other. And most seem far fetched. I love looking at scripture using Typeology. The obvious was to Type the Woman of Gen. 3;15 with the Woman of Ch. 12. Here, the Woman with emnities (a pushing away power) Types with the crowned and sun clothed Woman (filled with the Holy Ghost). Further, both Women type as being with child (Our Lord). Lastly, both Women have something at their feet. Here, the typing continues. The Woman of Gen. is crushing the head of the serpent (her footstool). The Woman of Ch. 12 also is standing on a footstool as if in conquest. The moon is typed as the head of the serpent. It's always been there in front of us. The head of the serpent is represented by the moon. Further, can we Identify why the moon? Once God told Lucifer that He would use the Woman as a weapon to destroy him, The devil then produces his own counterfitt to confuse God's people. If you search Queen of Heaven you will run into the counterfit. "and the people made cakes to the queen of heaven." a couple of verses like that are in scripture. the Isrealites had constant problems whorshipping this deity. The protestants throw this in our face quite often when we call Our Lady the Queen of Heaven. But Mary is the authentic Queen. A Sub note in the Duey Rheims bible identifies this pagan queen of heaven as being "the moon in which they whorshipped". ... Hey, sorry for my spelling.
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Posted Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:33 PM By Joe S.
Some Catholics get beat up pretty badly by the potestants if the pagan queen of heaven is shown to them. Some start to doubt Our Ladie's position. So this counterfit is identified as a moon goddess. The moon is most associated with the female gender. The woman fertility cycle comes to mind from my research. This moon Goddess has a name. She started out in mythology as Ashteroth. But like the moons changing appearance, so too does the name of the goddess change. From culture to culture, and time of history. The different names always lead back to Ashteroth. Check out some of the names for the moon goddess. Artimis, Seleine, Isis, Diana, Sophia, Ashtardae. I could continue. So, the Woman of Apoc. Ch.12 is identified as the authentic Queen of Heaven crushing the counterfit, pagan queen of heaven.
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Posted Friday, March 14, 2008 12:03 AM By Joe S.
Doug, I'll get back on this later. what are your thoughts so far? You're right on the Money with Islam and the moon. Actually, Good job. Check this out, Islam sects have established approximately three Moon Goddess identities. One we are familiar with is FATIMA. Fatima was the daughter of Mohammed. When she died she was elevated to the status of moon goddess. Our lady Appeared in Fatima to combat this imposter. Doug, look at the trend established by Our Lady. Several Apparition sites around the world have seen Our Lady combatting the religion connected with a local moon goddess. Look at Guadallupaes Black moon. A goddess. Our lady appeared twice in history in INDIA. She is identified there as Our Lady of GOOD HEALTH. I have no doubt that Our Lady is fighting off KALI THE DESTROYER. Moon goddess of the Hindus, End result for the yoga practioners Healthy EXERCISING Gimmick.
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Posted Friday, March 14, 2008 6:53 AM By John L. Sillasen
Joe S., Christianity grew rapidly in the New World, so why not in India or China?
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Posted Friday, March 14, 2008 7:06 AM By cubeland mystic
John S. I think you are correct. JPII predicted something like that. Christianity will shift from the haves to the have-nots so to speak. Western culture has embraced materialism, and continues to do so. Materialism has no mercy. As western cultures secularize, people will "belong" to the state, faith will be suppressed, and the unwanted will be killed. Didn't a judge just rule in California that a parent has to be certified to homeschool?
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Posted Friday, March 14, 2008 3:53 PM By John L. Sillasen
cubeland mystic, yeah, the parents might have to be certified, but that judge is definitely certifiable.
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Posted Thursday, March 20, 2008 11:43 AM By Jenny
Mahony has shown for years now that he does not believe i God, or Christ's teachings. He only cares about what profits himself the most. He lives like a prince while pushing elderly nuns out onto the street. He rationalizes disenfranchising working poor American citizens, and replacing them with illegal aliens, because he, like any corporatist is diseased with greed and corruption.
If the USCCB and the Pope do not remove this diseased and corrupt cardinal from the diocese and put things right again, then it means they are as corrupted and diseased. I believe that like in the Anglican church, where churches around the country and the world rejected the diseased and corrupted leadership that sought to weaken and undermine it, and formed their own hierarchy, we must do the same.
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Posted Tuesday, March 25, 2008 9:13 AM By Conor
out of many posts i have seen only a couple that are either rational, loving, or based in fact. most of them are from superstitious liars. spirit is nameless and all religions have it as their inspiration and goal. i give you a more universal name for your 'SATAN': blind hate, ignorance, and intolerance.
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Posted Tuesday, March 25, 2008 11:33 PM By John L. Sillasen
Conor, you've got the gift, man. You ought to start up a religion; go into business for yourself as a religious leader; you'll make millions.
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Posted Monday, June 23, 2008 3:50 PM By Eric
Wow, you would think by reading these comments that Mahony had said something like don't love your neighbor or don't love your God with all your heart. Of a practical nature, where are we going to get our new priests from?
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Posted Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:13 PM By David A. Bliss
It is hard to find many groups more anti-Catholic than the ACLU. They are pro abortion and pro tax payer funding of abortion, pro gay marriage, pro embryonic stem cell research, and support the elimination of anything relating to the "In God we Trust" heritage of our country. Mayor Villaraigosa was (and may still be) the head of the LA Chapter of the ACLU. Mayor Villaraigosa's policies have repeatedly supported those positions. Yet Cardinal Mahony has repeatedly walked and stood and supported this man.
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