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“Bombarded with hundreds of sexual advances”

Trial nears in case of San Diego firefighters forced to take part in “gay pride” parade


Jury selection was scheduled to begin today in the case of four San Diego firefighters who have sued the city, saying they were forced to participate in the 2007 “Gay Pride” parade and subjected to sexually demeaning gestures and catcalls as a consequence.

Capt. John Ghiotto, engineer Jason Hewitt and firefighters Chad Allison and Alex Kane filed the civil lawsuit, alleging their superiors forced them, in full uniform and on their city fire truck, to attend the July 21, 2007 San Diego “Gay Pride” parade over their objections. They are being represented by the Ann Arbor, Michigan-based Thomas More Law Center.

“You could not even look at the crowd without getting some kind of sexual gesture,” said one of the firefighters in a Law Center press release issued shortly after the event. “If any crew member were to hang up pictures at the station of what we saw, we would be disciplined.”

During the parade, the firefighters “were subjected to vile sexual taunts from homosexuals lining the parade route,” said the press release. Among the comments hurled at the firefighters as they traversed the parade route were “show me your hose,” “you can put out my fire,” “you’re making me hot,” “give me mouth-to-mouth,” “blow my hose,” according to the Law Center. When the firefighters did not respond, “some in the crowd turned hostile and started shouting, ‘F—k you firemen’ and others began ‘flipping them off,’” said the press release. Some bystanders committed lewd acts, directed at the firefighters, such as exposing their genitals, grabbing the crotch, and blowing kisses.

The four firefighters’ allege that their superiors told them on July 20 they would have to ride in the parade, and, when they protested, were told they must participate or face disciplinary action.

Following the incident, the San Diego Fire Department adopted a new policy providing that only volunteers would be used to represent it in special events. The new policy, worked out with Firefighters Local 145, says that the department will seek unpaid volunteers to drive trucks at all special events. If no one volunteers, the department will then ask for paid volunteers, who would receive four hours of overtime pay.

“What happened to these dedicated public servants was inexcusable,” said Charles LiMandri, the Thomas More Law Center’s West Coast director, who is representing the firefighters at trial. “The city should have known from past experience the kind of offensive activities that go on at this event. This was a clear case of sexual harassment in violation of state and federal law as well as the city’s own code of conduct.” ??

San Diego City Attorney Michael Aguirre, who has said he will personally represent the city during trial, told the San Diego Gay & Lesbian Times the parade “is a positive, joyous event, and not inherently sexual” and that the objectionable conduct about which the firefighters complained was “isolated and minimal.”

LiMandri told the San Diego Union-Tribune that the firefighters’ supervisors were already aware from past parades of the kind of conduct to expect from parade-goers, but still insisted the four participate anyway. “These guys were bombarded with hundreds of sexual advances,” LiMandri told the newspaper. And, he added, “You can't force an employee to be in a political event.”


READER COMMENTS

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 12:41 AM By Dan
Persecution of Christians in Canada is well under way by the homosexual rights-oriented government. It is hard to believe this would happen here, given our tradition of free-speech and religious freedom. Alas, how naive!

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 5:13 AM By Ron
Maybe the tax payers of San Diego will wake up and realize where their tax dollars are being spent if these 4 firefighters win their suit to the tune of a few million $. Good luck firefighters and may God Bless your cause.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 5:32 AM By Fr. M.P.
A gay and lesbian parade is "not inherently sexual?" That is a great example of hiding the lies in the open - in your face. We see here one example of how the government is forcing acceptance of sin "or else" to this group of employees. I wonder if anyone will say the homosexuals were just being compassionate?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 7:41 AM By E. Mae
If you can't get the most basic boundary of life that sex is between a man and a woman, you won't be able to maintain other boundaries in life. This behavior of homosexuals during the parade is a good example. Aguirre, there is no such thing as "isolated and minimal". Either it happened or it didn't, that's what matters. Next year, make those SDFD superiors go to the homosexual parade along with Aguirre. Then let's see them minimize their experienceS.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:05 AM By John70
I really feel sorry for the straight Christian citizens of California who are forced to "bend over and grab their ankles" every time a homosexual demands attention and a politician or judge fall all over each other running to their rescue. Until ALL of us who are "normal" put down the channel changer, start a massive,non-violent protest in the court houses, city counsel chambers and state houses across the country, all we can expect is more of the same only worse. Its up to the people what we get.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:29 AM By Laurette Elsberry
SD City Attorney Aguirre says the parade is "not inherently sexual"? This guy is incompetent. It's all about sex, stupid. If it wasn't for sodomy there would be no parade. How awful it must have been for the firefighters - everyone on the parade route would have believed that they were sodomites, or sodomite supporters at the very least. I wonder, did Aguirre participate in the parade?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:33 AM By Servant's Heart
Michael Aguirre is seriously deluded in describing this debauchery as "positive and joyous without being inherently sexual." I question the judgment of this San Diego City Attorney. I do not think he values our public servants to any degree. One these Gay and Lesbian rabel rousers may be in a very hot place screaming to have the unquenchible fires put out and they will have memories of their taunting ways. Let us pray for repentance, conversion, change of heart and a knowledge of the right path to life. The path these folks are on leads to death and destruction of their souls.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:41 AM By Thomas
Sounds like a few fires need to be put out!

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 9:27 AM By The other Mike
The City Attorney just wants the fire fighters to understand: Some sexual advances are more equal than other sexual advances.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 10:17 AM By Debby
City Attorney Aguirre is an idiot. anyone who votes for him really needs to take a long hard look at what he represents. No one should be forced to participate in any event they do not personally believe in. As for volunteers, that's fine. but any gas used for the trucks should come from donations, not tax payers dollars. If no one volunteers, they should not be in the parade. I strongly oppose paying anyone double time who is being forced to participate in any event, political or not. Our tax dollars should not be wasted in this manner. Our city is in a financial diaster, what the hell are they thinking. When times are tough, you are supposed to make cut backs on unnecessary expenses. Our city councel has their priorities all screwed up. If they can force someone to participate in an event they personally do not believe in, then we should be able to keep our cross on Mount Solodad and have the Ten Commandents posted in our court rooms.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 10:43 AM By Joe
How sad--The city of San Diego in 2007 forced 4 of its firefighters to join their homosexual parade. Praise be to God, let us pray that these four win the suite. And praise to the Thomas Moore Law firm that is representing them against the city. Michael Aguirre, deep down, do you really believe what you said---that the homo spectators did not offend. What is the state of California becoming?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:00 AM By Linda
Those San Diego firemen experienced what it was like in Sodom and Gomorrah when Lot tried to protect the visiting angels from being gang raped by the "gays" of his time!! There is something very ironic about the fact that those who proudly extol their homosexuality will face the fires of hell and are assaulting FIREMEN with their shameless sexual solicitation! I pray you San Diego firemen win this lawsuit. It's still San Diego not San Gayiego.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:01 AM By betty
How does the fury get selected? Are people asked if they have already formed judgments about what happened? Are they asked whether they are straight or gay? Are questions like that allowed at jury selection? Some of us would like to know if they are going to get a fair trial.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:47 AM By Jack P
In Canada, it's not just city governments forcing homosexual agenda compliant bahavior, the Federal Public Service Alliance (PSAC) is being sued by a member for blatant anti-Catholic / pro-homosexual advocacy.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 12:10 PM By Will
Why didn't the supervisors do the dirty work? Gay parades are only about sex and politics...nothing else...sick culture

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 12:45 PM By Pax Christi
The residents of Sodom and Gomorrah would've been so lucky to have these firefighters on hand during that one fateful day. Probably wouldn't have made a difference though.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 2:05 PM By pete salveinini
Time for cities to prohibit such events as indecent to public morals, If memory serves the Mayor of Moscow did just that.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 2:26 PM By Joseph
Question Number 1: How could this stinking sickening parade be called a political event Mr. LiMandri? What is political about it? The participants behavior breaks the laws! Question Number 2: Why do we have the San Diego City Attorney Michael Aguirre lying to us with his lack of morals? Like a mayor, the city attorney ought to be a person of good moral character that we can live up to and trust. If Aguirre were a real man and decent attorney, he'd work to shut down this annual degenerate parade that is out to destroy the goodness in society especially by corrupting our young, and scaring the rest of us that we are hate mongers. Love the sinner but hate the sin! Question Number 3: Why were these decent city employees, our heros and firefighters, forced into supporting this sinful debauchery when the idiot city managers had no right to do so? The mayor, and city idiots that obeyed this disgusting decision should all be fired. They aren't worthy of filling the positions entrusted to them by the people of San Diego. Question Number 4: Why does our mayor and city council sponsor and promote this trash which in-turn runs our city and its reputation down into the sewer with such disgusting exhibitions of gay-pride and their lewd acts? Then the local media has the gall to show it off nationwide. Our city is only going to loose business by loss of sales from the heterosexuals (98+% of our population) that stay away and go elsewhere. Do an unbiased study and figure it out! We don't want the City of San Diego to suffer sharing City of San Francisico's awful and mocked reputation. Pitty our poor Saints whom have to bear these insults. We don't want this behavior in San Diego! Pray to the Rosary to Blessed Mother that this scourge stops!

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 3:26 PM By SimplyCommonSense
The regulations have already been changed, and that's the good thing to come out of this. These firemen were willing to put their very lives on the line for the regular paycheck they get - now we will see what kind of cash value these strong brave men expect to get for a taunting by gays. Can you say CaChing ?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 3:36 PM By Life Lady
I know exactly what these men were subjected to. Gay Pride week, and weekend is an open sexually charged event, with men (especially) half-dressed and parading in all their "finery". I lived a block away from the beginning of the parade route and my first year I was unnerved at the open license for all kinds of sights and sounds. Thereafter I left on that weekend, until it was all over. I finally was able to move last year, and thankfully avoided the entire debacle. I know what those men had to endure, and the fact that the Chief of Police, the Mayor, and the Fire Chief were openly involved was to my shame. Hillcrest, that part of San Diego that is openly gay, is batteling for itself. There are families who are trying to reclaim the area, and its a tough battle, but bottom line, the City was wrong for forcing those men to ride in that parade. They should be compensated for what they endured, and I don't care how much it will cost. Maybe the openly gay agenda will get it where it really hurts, in the wallet, and understand that they can't force people to like what they do, no matter what they say about it. Shame on the Mayor, and all of them.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 3:52 PM By eric
i'm sure had they gone to Overline, in Pacific Beach, they would be catcalling and making unwanted sexual advances to numerous women there. i guess what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 3:54 PM By Miguel
I hope these firefighters bankrupt the city.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 4:15 PM By eric
Joseph what laws are gay people breaking?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 4:39 PM By eric
Miguel the city is bankrupt

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 4:49 PM By Lisa T.
I tried to post a link to a You Tube video of the 2007 SD Pride parade but I guess it was too obscene to get posted. If anyone would like to see the kinds of disgusting and perverted activities that go on at Pride events just search San Diego Pride 2007 on You Tube or Google it. Does anyone ever wonder why Gay Pride events and Parades are never televised? Just go to a Gay Pride parade and you will see why. The liberal media knows best never to reveal too much about the Gay lifestyle.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 4:58 PM By Pax Christi
Eric, how about laws against sexual harassment for one thing? Perhaps San Diego has laws against lewd public behavior? Would the firefighters have been fired had they refused orders, saying that such an event violates their religious beliefs? In that case, would the ACLU had rallied to their defense? Ha!

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 5:32 PM By Miguel
touche'

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 7:04 PM By JAMES
GO BRAVEST BEST OF LUCK

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 7:06 PM By Eric
To Pax Crhisti and Lisa T., the SD Pride Parade is broadcast every year on Channel 4 in San Diego. I wish it was as lewd and obsence as you claim, I leave every year a bit bored and underwhelmed. Do you go to the beach at all? People, both men and women, wear less clothes at the beach than at Pride.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 7:09 PM By Pat
Start a recall on Aguirre! He is neither incompetent nor an idiot; he is a liberal Democrat! Dems support abortion and gay rights to the extreme; case closed. My entire Hispanic family were cradle Dems. That party moved away from us! Aguirre should be ashamed of himself. He's a disgrace.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 7:53 PM By Tom P
Eric wants to know what laws the sodomites were breaking. They were breaking God's laws. The penalty for breaking His laws -- and not repenting -- is eternity in Hell. Don't risk your immortal soul, Eric, for the perverted pleasures of this world. This life is short; eternity is forever.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:02 PM By Harv
Eric, I hope your question is only a matter of your innocence, if not then I presume you are gay and that you believe there is nothing wrong with this notorius sinful sickening devilish and deviant life-style. Start with indecent exposure, lewd acts in public settings and etc. Wake up, don't join them or defend them; turn away if you are already one of them. If you really care about your own soul and their souls, they need to be admonished by the church and then forgiven in confession after those who are sorry show remorse and a desire to amend their lives.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:44 PM By Harv
Tom P, according to most biblical scholars, including Prof Fuller at the Unviersy of San Diego who taught my Bibilical Studies class, the sin of Sodom was inhospitality which was a big no no in beoudin societies and still is to this day. Also Harv are you as critical of say Mardi Gras in New Orleans and the various Spring Breaks where one sees more than they could at Gay Pride?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 8:56 PM By Eric
Tom P, according to most biblical scholars, including Prof Fuller at the Unviersy of San Diego who taught my Bibilical Studies class, the sin of Sodom was inhospitality which was a big no no in beoudin societies and still is to this day. Also Harv are you as critical of say Mardi Gras in New Orleans and the various Spring Breaks where one sees more than they could at Gay Pride?

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 9:04 PM By Lisa T.
Dear Eric, If Channel 4 does broadcast the Pride Parade as you claim the most they are showing is same sex couples holding hands or maybe kissing. I doubt if they broadcast the erotic dancing men on floats wearing the skimpiest bikini underwear that hug their crotches (gotta accentuate those crotches). The one You Tube video I saw of the 2007 Pride Parade showed men on a float bouncing up and down on excercise balls. One man kept adjusting his package to display it in the best possible way. Everyone along the Parade route got a full frontal crotch shot.

Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:22 PM By Pax Christi
Shock, perversion and disgust are the take-home messages that attendees will glean from San Diego's Gay Pride Festival. Google "James Hartline Report" to read all about registered sex offenders allegedly being hired to supervisory positions by the festival and a convicted pedophile named Marty the Clown having a gay time in the festival's Children's Garden.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:25 AM By Eric
Lisa T, yes they show the whole parade. Pax Christi in 34 years there have been no reported sex abuses at Pride, but the same year as the James Hartline Scandel 4 girls were assulted at the San Diego County Fair and recieved miminal media attention.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 10:12 AM By Jay1
Eric, Leviticus chap 20 says active homosexuality is immoral. This was continued in the New Testament.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 11:58 AM By Harv
Eric, From what I've read on this website about the Theology Department at the University of San Diego, it is by no means catholic and does not teach true catholic teaching so don't bother to bring credibility to your arguement by using a wayward leftist professor's name to back you. Liberal professors like himself are doing all they can to underhandedly change history to meet their own personal evil agendas, not teach the true catholic faith. Next did any catholic or the church say they approve of Mardi Gras or various spring breaks on this website? When you find a truly catholic holy parish, clergy, or persons, or better yet scripture from God approving this degenerate behavior please let us all know as St Paul in his Epistles speaks out against fornication clearly stating that it is wrong. Just because some groups may be committing sin is no excuse for others to commit sin. People ought to try and understand how much God loves us, the suffering He went through to redeem those whom want to be with Him and please Him. By mans sins in the past, our sins today, and those in the future, we are responsible for the tormenting scourging, crowning of thorns, nailing Him on the cross, and hanging Him there to suffer and die an ignominious death. If people would only get it, (but it takes God's grace to see it) maybe there would be less offending of God (especially by impure acts of the flesh) and more atonement of our sins. Heaven and hell is for eternity that is right eternity, the sins of the flesh last only in our life time. Its not worth giving up eternity with God in Heaven for sinful moments here on earth whether they be homosexual or heterosexual. Homosexuals should remain chaste and get mental health care. Heterosexuals should get married.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:52 PM By Sawyer
Eric -- I guess those biblical scholars, including the mediocrity "Prof Fuller" at USD didn't read their Bibles all the way to the Book of Jude, which states in verse 7: "Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual promiscuity and practiced unnatural vice, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire." Those biblical scholars you refer to are frauds, foisting secular liberalism on their interpretations of the Bible. They spew not biblical studies, but B.S. of a different sort. What nonsense to claim that the sin of S&G was inhospitality. No intellectually honest interpretation supports such a conclusion.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:39 PM By Tom P
Dear Eric: The sin at sodom was NOT inhospitality. It was sodomy, your professor Fuller notwithstanding. Bible "scholars" such as Fuller could not find employment at a real Catholic college. His employment at USD only confirms that it is NOT a Catholic college.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:42 PM By Mary Ann, SingingMum
Eric, do you honestly believe God would destroy the inhabitants of an entire city for inhospitality? While hospitality is a good thing, can you show me where prescriptions against inhospitality are in the scriptures? They would have to carry a sentence of death for God to have responded in such a way, or His destruction of S&G doesn't make sense. This firefighter story is a real embarrassment, and certainly involved inhospitality, in the form of sexual harassment. Why not just face it?

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:45 PM By Victoria
GOOD FOR THE FIREFIGHTERS! I have many Gay friends and they are just as furious as everyone who reads this thread. The most notable comment was, "What would happen if Gay people were forced to participate in a strictly heterosexual parade?" No doubt that the civil rights of these fire fighters were violated. And if City Attorney, Michael Aguirre thinks it, "wasn't that bad", let he and his fellow city officials take the "Duty" at the next Gay Pride Parade and leave the Fire Fighters to do what they do best.....SAVING LIVES.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:48 PM By Fr. J
They should film it and show it on public TV. Let everyone see what homosexuals really want. Then when they say they want to be your kids scoutmaster...

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 4:00 PM By Eric
Jay1, leviticus only applies to the practice of Temple Prositutes.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 4:40 PM By Eileen
Eric. Your Professor Fuller is full of deception. I cannot tell you the exact reason why he teaches deception, but it is deception. My cousin who died from A.I.D.S after living a lifestyle of dodging the truth, chose to repent and be baptized a few months before his death. He never repented about visiting inhospitable people or towns. He repented his sinful behavior. People don't foolishly gamble with their eternity when they are wise. He wisely chose the truth. My cousin was very kind to many peole. He had a great amount of charity for everyone he met. He was raised by a single mother who let him spend weekends with a mailman who showed interest in him as a young boy. My father begged my aunt repeatedly, to not let a stranger have access to her young son. My aunt could not be convinced that this mailman was anything but kind. My aunt lived and died regretting that choice. Many people prayed the rosary faithfully for him. They loved him and they knew he grew up and made choices that eventually cost him his life. I was leaving his house after his funeral when a close friend of his, a fallen away Catholic, shared something very beautiful. She said, "Oh, I almost forgot to tell you this. Right before your cousin died, he looked up to corner ceiling direction and kept asking. "Who is the beautiful lady?" Eric, please use your free will wisely. I hope that you have access to a rosary. It would be a very wise choice to help you find and live the truth. It makes me very sad that teachers are teaching sin! Please, stay away from parades that promote sin. Eric, be kind to everyone, but be kinder to yourself by avoiding all sin, it breeds inhospitality to God.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:28 PM By Jay1
Eric, what do you base that on?

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 7:04 PM By Anne T.
Adding to my last e-mail, that is what is meant when the Church says someone is dead in sin. They have rejected following their conscience so much that they no longer have one---examples, perpetual liars, thieves, fornicators, sodomites, etc. They all try to justify their sin and refuse to repent even though they know deep down it is wrong. For example: everyone who practices sodomy has got to know deep down that those parts of the body were meant for other purposes and that sodomy is not and can never be the natural function of our sexual organs.

Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:25 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Erid, Leviticus 20:13 "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed" sure doesn't sound like "Temple Prostitutes" to me. Where did you learn to read? God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:58 AM By Jay1
I cannot accept your assertion Leviticus only applied to shrine prostitution. Are you being selective in your examples? Based on e-mail I received from webmaster of a pro-homosexual site www.gaychristian101.com - Rick Brentlinger He says: “I cover the meaning of arsenokoites in chapter 9 of my book (Gay Christian 101). Arsenokoites has three meanings based on how the word is actually used in history and a fourth meaning, by implication, based on historical writings which use the root words which form arsenokoites. 1. Arsenokoites refers to interspecies sex, based on its use by Hippolytus in Refutation of All Heresises and based on its use by Pseudo-Mararius, Sermon 49:5,6, which references the attempted interspecies rape of the angels who visited Sodom. 2. Arsenokoites refers to rape of a man, based on Eusebius' Preparation of the Gospel, 6:10. 3. Arsenokoites refers to nonprocreative sex with a woman, based on Origin's usage, Exposition on Proverbs, 7.74, and Eusebius, Demonstration of the Gospel, Book I, 6.23, and John the Faster, in Penitential, where he uses arsenokoitia to refer to anal sex with a wife (nonprocreative and therefore regarded by some as contrary to nature. 4. Arsenokoites by implication, also refers to shrine prostitution, based on Philo's reference linking shrine prostitution in the first century AD to the Leviticus passages and Philo's statement that the Jewish lawgiver Moses intended to proscribe shrine prostitution (as covered in my previous email).” In addition, Philo in his Special Laws III (the same passage where he uses Leviticus as applying to Temple Prostitution) makes references to Leviticus referring to pederasty. So it is not ‘only’ Temple Prostitution being referenced as you state.

Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:00 AM By Jay1
Eric, According to many prominent bibles, Leviticus 20:13 translates as “men who lie with a male as with a woman.” There are no qualifications. Nothing in the words themselves indicating they refer to only certain forms of homosexual acts. Perhaps this was the Jewish way of referring to all homosexual acts. The other sins mentioned in the same Levitical passage are also unqualified - adultery, bestiality, child sacrifice – they are always wrong and grave in nature. Although there are prohibitions regarding male-female incest, there is no mention of male-male incest. Why? Perhaps it is already covered in Leviticus 20:13. A number of extra-biblical Jewish/early Christian writings indicated non-acceptance of any form of active homosexuality Yes, some Jewish/early Christian writers did reference Leviticus in connection with more specific types of homosexuality (like Philo and shrine prostitution). However, if Leviticus does include all forms of homosexual acts then of course specific applications, e.g., shrine prostitution, would be included. Such a specific application does not prove Leviticus is limited to shrine prostitution, however. Indeed there are many more ancient extra-biblical writings that use the Levitical words without a definition – to me this indicates none was needed because it literal meaning speaks for itself as referencing all homosexual acts. In fact, at least one of these same writers, Philo, also made statements elsewhere indicating active homosexuality, in general, was wrong. If Philo thought Leviticus only referenced shrine prostitution, why make such a general condemnation else where. Note: This Levitical prohibition also applies in the New Testament (1 Cor 6 & 1 Tim 10).

Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:03 AM By Jay1
Eric, To undermine traditional Christian teaching on active homosexuality, some pro-homosexs would have you believe that if general homosexuality was being referenced in the New Testament, other, more descriptive Greek words would have been used rather than the words actually used. For example, St. Paul often used – arsenokoitai to describe active homosexuality. Some claim Paul invented the word and assert its meaning is either unclear or speculate it refers to male prostitutes, or pederasts. However, there is a more straight-forward explanation. The Old Testament book Leviticus prohibited all homosexuality. In the Greek version of the Old Testament called the Septuagint, written several hundred years before Paul, the words referring to active homosexuality in Leviticus are arsenos koiten. This strongly indicates that Greek speaking Jews had already nearly fused the two root words together to form arsenokoites. Paul’s later writings, such as 1 Cor6:9 actually did fuse the two words It is quite plausible that Paul uses arsenokoitai and not other Greek words, in order to make clear that opposition to homosexual practice was rooted in Levitical moral law and Jewish understanding that active homosexuality was always wrong. Using other Greek words would not have rooted opposition in Jewish Levitical moral law and would convey an ambiguous, nuanced moral attitude reflective of Greek/Roman culture The connection to Levitical moral law is further strengthened by its use in 1Tm1:10 where arsenokoitai are called law breakers. .

Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 7:15 AM By Jay1
Eric, 9) Although there are modern biblical scholars who believe arsenokoitai does not condemn all forms of homosexuality, one can also find biblical scholars who no longer believe in Jesus’ physical Resurrection, or the Virgin Birth, or Jesus’ need to die on the cross for the atonement of our sins. Am I to throw-away my beliefs in core Christian doctrine because of these heretical bible scholars because they are modern? All of this for the greater glory of active homosexuality Here are some pro-homosexual bible scholars who would disagree with you. Bernadette Brooten has written: “I see Paul as condemning all forms of homoeroticism” (Love Between Women, 244). William R. Schoedel, a prohomosex professor emeritus at the University of Illinois who has expertise in early Christianity and classics, has written: “Paul’s wholesale attack on Greco-Roman culture makes better sense if, like Josephus and Philo, he lumps all forms of same-sex eros together as a mark of Gentile decadence,” including committed relationships by those homoerotically oriented (“Same-Sex Eros: Paul and the Greco-Roman Tradition,” Homosexuality, Science, and the “Plain Sense” of Scripture, 68 Louis Crompton, emeritus professor of English at the University of Nebraska and author of the recent work, Homosexuality and Civilization (Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 2003; 622 pgs.), writes: “According to [one] interpretation, Paul’s words were not directed at “bona fide” homosexuals in committed relationships. But such a reading, however well-intentioned, seems strained and unhistorical. Nowhere does Paul or any other Jewish writer of this period imply the least acceptance of same-sex relations under any circumstance. The idea that homosexuals might be redeemed by mutual devotion would have been wholly foreign to Paul or any other Jew or early Christian. (p. 114) “ Walter Wink has acknowledged, in the Christian Century review: “The Bible is negative toward same-sex behavior, and there is no getting around it. . . . Paul wouldn’t accept [a nonexploitative homosexual] relationship for a minute.” Phyllis Bird, Old Testament scholar says the writers of S

Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:42 AM By JLS
The homosexualists fantasize that since the Bible does not give them a prominent place, but relegates them to infamy in a verse here and there, then there must be some mistake. After all, the homosexualists are centered on their own members and not on their fellow man or God. They are next to the high level hypocrites to be first in line for Hell.

Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:20 PM By Jay1
Eric,Immediately below is another pro-homosexual quote that got cut-off in my prior note. In addition, further below is quotes from some Jewish/early Christian wirters (including Philo) regarding general homosexuality. Phyllis Bird, Old Testament scholar says the writers of Scripture emphasized not the cultic prostitution of these figures but rather their “repugnant associations with male homosexual activity.” , see The Bible and Homosexual Practice, 100-110. 1) If Philo believed that Levitical law only applied to shrine prostitutes, you would not expect to find in his writings preaching against the un-naturalness and un-lawfulness of apparently more general homosexual acts - yet you do. Speaking about Sodom in De. Abr. 135-41 :”and discard the laws of nature pursuing a great and intemperate indulgence of gluttony, and drinking, and unlawful connections; for not only did they go mad after women, and defile the marriage bed of others, but also those who were men lusted after one another, doing unseemly things, and not regarding or respecting their common nature…” and, “ But God, having taken pity on mankind,….increased …the natural desire of men and women for a connection together for the sake of producing children, and detesting the unnatural and unlawful commerce of the people of Sodom, he extinguished it,…” Seems broader than cult prostitution to me. Josephus (Jewish historian writing after 1 Cor), says: “What are our Marriage laws? The Law recognizes no sexual connections, except the natural union of man and wife, and that only for procreation of children. But it abhors the mixture of a male with a male, and if anyone do that, death is his punishment. Josephus, Against Apion 2. Apostolic Constitutions – “difference of sexes was made by the will of God for the generation of multitudes, then must the conjunction of male and female be also acceptable to His mind. But we do not say so of that mixture that is contrary to nature, or of any unlawful practice; such are enmities of God. For the sin of Sodom is contrary to nature, as is also that with

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