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Published: June 8, 2008
Of crucifixion and NFP
An invitation to a civil discussion about contraception, NFP, and related topics
Notes from a Cultural Madhouse
By Christopher Zehnder
(Editor's Note: Today's Madhouse was originally published on Feb. 18, 2007. Mr. Zehnder renews his call for our readers to engage in a thoughtful discussion about contraception, NFP, and related topics.)
Catholic morality is an exacting morality -- which is why it is so roundly attacked from all sides these days. Economic libertarians, for instance, will assail the Church for her insistence that economics must be governed by the moral law and, even, by the civil law. Social libertarians complain that the Church’s rejection of divorce or same-sex marriage is unduly harsh and insensitive. National defense libertarians reject the Church’s just war teaching as unrealistic or even suicidal.
But the Church is nowhere more controversial than in her teaching that artificial contraception is immoral and thus may never be used. Sex is a big deal in modern society, which brooks no restraints on self-indulgence. But self-restraint is at the heart of the Church’s teaching on sexuality in general and artificial contraception in particular.
Self-restraint enters into Church teaching even where the Church is being indulgent. The Church has recognized that there may be justifiable reasons for married couples to forego having children; but at the same time she has determined that couples need not embrace complete abstinence from sexual relations to do this. Pope Pius XI, in his encyclical, Casti Conubii, said couples may come together during infertile periods while avoiding intercourse during fertile periods for a just reason. The Church has not even spelled out what reasons qualify as just, leaving it to couples to determine this (preferably, with wise counsel from a confessor).
But the approved methods of avoiding the fertile periods -- the old “rhythm” method and its more effective successor, Natural Family Planning -- don’t preclude self-control. For one thing, they don’t allow sex on demand, since couples have to abstain during a good part of the month. For another thing, they allow sexual union only during those periods of a woman’s cycle when many women are not all that interested in sex. And some women have irregular cycles, which narrows the window of time in which couples may come together.
NFP often means long periods of time without sex.
Men probably suffer most from NFP-imposed restrictions on sex, since men are always more interested in sex than women. But women suffer, too, when they can’t give their husbands the attention they desire. Ill feelings crop up. Tensions arise. And, doubtless, because of this, some Catholics begin to wonder whether the Church perhaps has gotten it right about contraception.
Of course, user friendliness is not the gauge of truth. Christ did not promise us contentment; He promised us the cross. Still, we are weak, and like babies we long for the milk of consolation rather than the strong wine of the high calling of Christ. This is where the Church comes in, the community of believers. We are to help one another bear our burdens and prod one another on to the fulfillment of our calling.
So, I invite this e-brotherhood (and sisterhood) to a discussion about contraception, NFP, and related topics. Why does the Church’s teaching on contraception make sense? What questions do people have about the teaching and NFP? How might we understand the difficulties associated with following Church teaching in this area so as to help us take on the burdens fidelity imposes? What advice can we give each other to deal with the difficulties we meet with day to day?
Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 3:10 AM By Mary
An essential and encouraging factor regarding the practice of NFP is the concept known as "ecological breastfeeding." Mrs. Kippley of the Couple to Couple League has developed and written about this reality. Nursing a child postpones for many months the continuance of fertility. By giving the baby its right to undivided attention through nursing, the times of infertility are greatly elongated. I was able to expect three years or so of infertility following each child's birth - - the wonderful harmony of child spacing according to God's plan
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 5:30 AM By Renee Gartland
Mr. Zehnder,
To clarify, NFP is not the old rhythm method. Much progress has been made in understanding the fertility cycle, and NFP can be used effectively even with irregular cycles. Modern NFP is just as effective as chemical contraceptives, and more effective than barrier methods! A recent scientific study found the sympto-thermal natural family planning method to be as effective as the contraceptive pill. The report was published in Europe's leading reproductive medicine journal Human Reproduction on Feb. 21, 2007.
Moreover, with NFP, couples learn to recognize their own individual fertility pattern, and many couples of marginal fertility can use that knowledge to help them start a family. NFP also allows couples to become independent from potentially harmful artificial methods that require long-term dependence on drugs, devices, physicians, government programs, or even teachers. There are no harmful side-effects of NFP.
Another benefit to NFP is that while the national divorce rate is approximately 50%, couples who practice NFP experience a divorce rate of less than 2%! This is contrary to your assertion that those couple who practice NFP are resentful. I submit that sadly most Catholics know more about pop culture than they do about the Church teachings, and lack the virtue of obedience; consequently, they don’t give NFP a first chance. They judge and reject NFP without ever having tried it.
I challenge everyone who judges and rejects NFP to sign up for a NFP class with your spouse. The family life office of your diocese or archdiocese will have a list of the available methods. Just sign up and attend. Learn about what it is you’re rejecting. And don’t be afraid!
Personally, my husband and I started out in our marriage using contraception because we were unaware of the Church’s teaching on the matter. A short time into our marriage a Protestant couple introduced us to NFP and we can testify that it has done wonders for our marriage and spiritual lives. Through NFP we have grown closer, as we discuss our fertility on a daily basis. These intimate conversations about our fertility lead to a deeper communication in general
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 5:42 AM By Sheila
What's missing in this discussion is God's plan for baby care and baby spacing through breastfeeding. When mothers follow ecological breastfeeding (or The Seven Standards), women will average over a year of natural infertility (no menstruation). For a nursing mother to go one, two or three years without periods due to breastfeeding is normal; to have a period a few months after childbirth for a mother following eco-breastfeeding should be the exception. We talk about theology of the body frequently, but this part of the theology or physiology of the body is ignored. Much of the discussion above about sex restriction and NFP does not apply here. Nor do you have to have a sufficently serious reason to practice this form of NFP. Free instruction on the Seven Standards can be obtained by downloading Chapter 4 at the "how-to" nfp manual at www.nfpandmore.org.
Sheila Kippley, volunteer
NFP International
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:22 AM By anonymous
My husband and I are entering our 25th year of marriage, and, thank goodness, we were trained in NFP before tying the knot. Like so many of the Church's teachings, the one on contraception, which is based upon the reality of marriage itself, must be lived, in good times and bad, to be appreciated and understood. Fidelity to the Church's teaching about conjugal relations bears the same fruit as faithfully partaking of the other sacraments -- it purifies you. Yes, purification involves the cross, as you say, but let us not forget the resurrection, which we taste in snatches and see in glimpses while still in this world. Our marriage has never been better, but only because we have endured together some very difficult times that have demanded some difficult periods of continence.
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:48 AM By Ann
I wonder what "a good part of the month" means when it comes to abstinence. If one is very familiar with NFP as taught by Couple to Couple League, that time period is not excessive by any means. It works very well even for women with prolonged cycles. Couples learn other ways of expressing affection, and the danger of each one becoming a sexual object for the other's use is greatly lessened, if not obliterated over time. Of course one cannot escape the cross, in contrast to those who follow the world's folly in putting all kinds of abortifacient chemicals and devices into the body, or eliminate fertility through surgery, when not necessary for one's health. .
In the process of learning the method, the wife learns to recognize signs and symptoms of fertility and infertility in her body. Since women are urged to continue seeing a gynecologist even after menopause, for pap smears, etc., a woman familiar with her own body will probably recognize something is amiss, perhaps sooner than the woman who used artificial contraceptives. The benefits of not putting artificial hormones into one's body for decades also puts her much less at risk for certain types of cancer. And I would bet that couples who practice NFP would not consider abortion at all in the event of a surprise pregnancy. It is always best to "play by the rules" our wise Mother Church has given us. I am puzzled by women who insist on eating organic foods, wearing cotton because it is a "natural" fabric, all the while putting contraceptives/abortifacients into their bodies, and then they wonder down the road how they ever could have gotten breast, or another type, of cancer.
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 10:21 AM By Camille
Sexual activity is only one of the human passions, albeit probably the most insistent urge. Yet, it can be contained if one has learned discipline and stays close to the sacraments.
Today's entire culture is built around indulgence whether it's food, money, fashions or whatever. Indulgence of the human appetite is what is making the world go round and the net profit grow.
Politicians and think tank elitists have no desire to curb those appetites so they do everything they can to block the so-called bad effects of indulgence as they see this indulgence negatively affecting society.
Too many children in the world? Contracept.
Too much obesity. pass laws to restrict the food and restaurant industry.
People "polluting" the earth with their cars? restrict oil production and raise the prices.
And on and on.
Human weakness and the desire for human pleasure may never be brought completely under self control and perfectly disciplined, but, then, that's what confession was supposed to be all about, wasn't it?
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 12:36 PM By betty
Breastfeeding kept my children two years apart, It was almost like clockwork. One son arrived on April 26th and his sister arrived on April 25th two years later. They all (six children) entered school two years apart and one year my second child, a son, fourth child and sixth child all had June graduations, one from college, one from high school and one from eighth grade. I'm not pushing it; I just thought you all might be interested to see that it works.
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 1:13 PM By Jacob
"NFP often means long periods of time without sex." This is a statement so heavily wrong and very indicative of the author's ignorance about NFP. Maybe he should learn the method and master every facet of it. Then he and his wife would see the benefits it would bring to their marriage, and he would see that the method rather narrow down the period of abstinence to the narrowest if their fertility is well understood.
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 2:04 PM By Maria C
I am so greatful for NFP. My husband and I have been married now for almost 16 years. We knew when we conceived all our 5 children. I lost two through miscarraiges. The very thought of taking artificial means to birth control makes me sick, I don't want to be a slave to those secular ways of birthcontrol. The greatest reward is to embrace a higher power that can help us along the way. Jacob I agree with your comments. It is a gift to understand our bodies and also understand that love we give to each other when we abstain or participate in potentially giving life and trusting in God. We are created in the image of God, we are not animals with no control of ones urges. Once you master NFP, it becomes a part of you and it is never an issue. Sometimes fear may consume us but we can pray for/practice virtue, it is then that we will reap rewards far more greater than one knows. Our Lord's blessings are in abundance. Read Kimberly Hahns book "life giving love", I believe it is called that. It will help. God bless.
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 2:25 PM By Kathryn
Someone needs to define how many days is "long." What is a "good part of the month"? It will depend on the couple in question surely.
Anyway, I think when you know what is at stake--the moral, societal, and ecological (yes, these fake hormones are getting into our water supplies and causing damage!), damage "long periods of abstinence" just don't seem that hard.
People also need to remember that the purpose of sexual relations is baby making. That's what it is all about--the only (regular) human activity that can get you a baby is through the marital act.
Yes, I realize that a good deal of bonding goes with the territory. Yes, I know the catechism makes a point about sexual activity being unitive for spouses, but guess what? There are non-sexual activities that facilitate bonding with your spouse. But only through the "marital act" do you get a baby (even if you are adopting a child, someone, somewhere, had to engage in it etc.)
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 5:42 PM By Catrina
"Long" varies from individual couple to couple. For instance, many women experience irregular cycles as they get older. The phase between menstruation and ovulation can be unpredictable and very short, so if this phase is avoided, two plus weeks without intercourse is not unusual. Yes, NFP works, but painting it as not a sacrifice is not honest. And truthfully, it is a sacrifice mostly for the man. I love my husband, but as I get older I value a good night's sleep more than intimacy. It would be good to get more male comments here.
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Posted Sunday, June 08, 2008 10:55 PM By kernan
Doesn't NFP impede the natural desires to be intimate? Should we not engage as couples when provoked, and let come what will?
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 5:39 AM By Fr. M.P.
What today's society has totally forgotten, courtesy the media blitz and re-paganized society all around, is that true love is sacrificial. Now there's a "bad word" in the modern world - sacrifice. No, today it's gimme gimme gimme. Me, me, me. It's my right to have constant pleasure. Abstaining from marital intercourse (the only allowed type) is a form of fasting, done out of sacrificial love for the spouse. Who fasts these days? Hardly anybody, if they even know what the word means. As Our Lady of La Salette said in 1846 (!!!), people will seek only pleasure in these days. And we see the double perversion of homosexual activity which most of them have vast numbers of "partners" practicing frequently and against nature (don't bother claiming some are in so-called "loving" relationships when it is only lusting relationships). Read or re-read Humanae Vitae and see how prophetic was our Holy Father Pope Paul VI. And then practice your sacrificial love with your spouse. One way to help deal with the sacrifice is to pray the Rosary together as a couple.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 8:07 AM By Nfpworks
Kernan, it turns out intercourse is not the only way to be intimate. It's the fullest way, but not the only way. NFP, when properly practiced, enhances intimacy because it makes it multidimensional and communicative. Isn't it true that two people can have sex but not be intimate with eachother? The converse is true as well.
A bone to pick about terminology, Mr. Zehnder: In conversations about contraception and the Church's teaching (and thus Jesus' teaching), we should avoid the use of "artificial contraception." It's misleading and inaccurate. It gives people the impression that the Church forbids contraception because it's artificial, rather than because it's contrary to the natural law and sterilizes the act of intercourse. Also, NFP can be used with a contraceptive mentality, and it's not at all artificial. I also avoid using the word "birth control" because controlling births responsibly is not illicit per se, but using contraceptives to do so is.
www.nfpworks.wordpress.com
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 8:47 AM By Mary-Lynn Ott
Christopher, your article is filled with misconceptions. ie. length of abstinence, restrictions imposed, lack of spontaniety, and an act of suffering- to name a few. I would highly recommend taking a course in it or at least reading some sound info. on it. As a married woman, I love the sexual freedom NFP has given my spouse and I. When we practiced hormonal contraception there was medical and long term side effects that were a heavy burden. My husband is actually more sexually interested in me than before, and even though it may be not the the highest time of sexual interest for me, he has come to know my body so wel ,due to NFP, that is not a problem. As a RN. there is a load of info. on the effects of artificial contraception- which I personally suffered- that is very real. As an RN and a NFP teacher instructor, I have counseled some sad women and couples who have suffered these side effects. Thus, I see NFP not as suffering, but at times a joyful sacrifice. NFP is a treasure and I thank God we finally listened to the church's teachings.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 8:53 AM By anonymous
Kernan -- that's providentialism. NFP might interfere with our desires to be intimate during times of abstinence if we are postponing a pregnancy, but so does fasting and abstaining from anything else for God. The Church teaches us, not only about being generous to life, but also about responsible parenthood -- see the CCC 2368 etc, Humanae Vitae (esp. para. 10), Gaudium et Spes.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 9:08 AM By Colleen
It seems to me that saying that NFP methods impose or restrict couples' expressions of intimate love is the wrong way to look at it. NFP does not impose anything on a couple; rather, it gives couples information about the likelihood of fertility at a given time. It is the decision of the couple what to do with that information. The self-restraint required of a couple who is choosing to limit their family size can be a blessing, in the same way that fasting during Lent can increase our holiness. Rather than viewing self-restraint as a burden or a bummer, couples who decide to view it instead as a necessary result of their personal decision to limit their family size can be blessed abundantly. The trust and respect required to practice self-control using NFP principles can strengthen a marriage. If couples decide to be self-pitying, then their marriages can be weakened. But NFP is not the cause of this -- it is the choice of the spouses how they will view their difficulties -- as a blessing from the Lord, or a burden unfairly laid upon them by a mean and nasty old Church.
I acknowledge fully that sometimes the times of abstinence can be long -- in my own marriage, we've had extended periods of self-imposed abstinence. We did not blame NFP -- instead we rejoiced, knowing that the principles we'd learned from NFP had enabled us to make decisions together. And we have never, in spite of following the seven standards carefully, had longer than 6.5 months of breast-feeding amenorrhea, rather we've had long periods of fits and starts of return to fertility, which can be difficult, but in retrospect have always been a blessing.
In short, it is the attitude of the couple that chooses to use NFP that matters most. I try to remember God's words to the Israelites at Mt. Sinai: "I place before you this day life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, that you and your children may live." The Church asks us to see NFP as a blessing, not a curse.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 9:45 AM By Dan
Fr. M.P. said "What today's society has totally forgotten, courtesy the media blitz and re-paganized society all around, is that true love is sacrificial. Now there's a "bad word" in the modern world - sacrifice. No, today it's gimme gimme gimme. Me, me, me. It's my right to have constant pleasure." I teach at a community college and this past fall in the school newpaper some pin-head (too much OReilly) wrote in that he deserved sex on his birthday. He made it clear that he was serious and also not married. Just wanted to confirm your point, Father M.P., about the narcissitic entitlement sense too many people have and have had since the advent of the pill. Well said.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 9:56 AM By Christopher Zehnder
I'm sorry, folks. But I have heard from a number of people who think using NFP imposes some hardships. It's not all the land of milk and honey, at least for everybody, and we'd be better off admitting that. That does not mean, as some of the posters seem to think, that I am proposing or defending the use of contraceptives. I certainly am not. Instead, I was hoping we could discuss the questions I posed at the end of my piece. The fact of the matter is, many couples do find using NFP a hardship. Just saying it isn't, doesn't help.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 11:07 AM By betty
What happens when only one partner wants to practice NFP and the other one wants nothing to do with it? Or does that happen someimes?
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 1:40 PM By Maria C
Christopher Zehnder now you heard my post, I am greatful for NFP. I read some posts saying that sometimes people go without married intercourse for up to two weeks. That is nonesense. I guess in our marraige, we do not have those issues. Like I said before once you embrace and trust in a higher power, NFP is actually a huge blessing. Without going into details, if one actually understands their bodies well, both the husband and the wife can have intimacy as aften as they like. Husband and wife are one in Christ.
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Posted Monday, June 09, 2008 2:16 PM By Mary Ann, SingingMum
We have used NFP both to conceive and to avoid when necessary. We find the Creighton model most effective, but also most time consuming to learn and involving the greatest periods of abstinence (7-10 days for us, sometimes more when nursing). So it has been for my husband and I both a sacrifice and a gift. I suppose most sacrifices can lead to true gifts, so why not also in this area? We're on the same page about openness to life, which is a huge blessing as I observe couples who don't embrace Church teaching. Weighing responsibility and generosity involves a joint approach, and continued prayerful discernment. God is brought into our bedroom, as into our hearts, with joy. I am very grateful to the priest who prepared us for marriage and was honest, open, and instructive in this area of life-affirming Church teaching.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:54 AM By Joseph
Mr. Zehnder, I don’t believe you understand NFP or the couples faithfully practicing NFP – you write that “….Ill feelings crop up. Tensions arise. And, doubtless, because of this, some Catholics begin to wonder whether the Church perhaps has gotten it right about contraception.” The couples we know who practice NFP have happy sex lives, and those who converted from contraception to NFP claim they have never had better sex. In contrast, our friends who use contraception complain often about their sex lives; the men complain they aren’t getting it enough, the women complain they feel used, both become resentful. As for my wife and I, when we were first married we used contraception. During this time I had an addiction to pornography and I viewed all women as something to control and abuse. After learning and using NFP, by the grace of God, I now respect women. I am not resentful of the times during the month that we abstain; I rather like it because then both my wife and I bond in different ways and we’re both are looking forward to the honeymoon period in the cycle. In your post in comments you seem irritated that us NFPers love NFP instead of saying we hate it but practice it anyway – I, a man, love NFP, even during the times of abstinence. I know couples who have faced, and face monthly, longer abstinence than my wife and I, and they too, love NFP. The people who question the Church’s wife teaching on contraception are those who’ve never tried it!
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 1:02 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Joseph,
As I have noted already, I have heard not a few people say that they find practicing NFP difficult. I even read a discussion of it on a message board of CCL. I don't know why people think that in promoting NFP they have to deny what people have said about the difficulties they encounter in praciticing it. You would make it nothing but a bed of roses -- great bliss -- and maybe it is for you. But others don't find it so. Fasting, too, is a great benefit, and even enhances the joys of feasting. But that's not to say it is not hard to do at times -- and perhaps quite hard for some people. I don't want you all to say you hate NFP any more than I would want someone to say he hates fasting. It would be nice, however, if you acknowledged that others might have difficulties you perhaps don't have. Do you really think that no one finds NFP hard to practice?
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:15 PM By Maria C
The bennefits of NFP are actually far greater than any other. For some it may be more difficult to practice or embrace but once you have been practicing it for a while, then it only becomes a part of you and the gifts are more beautiful. It all depends on how much we trust God. They say that those who use artificial forms of birth control have a higher rate of divorce. Christopher Zehnder nothing is easy at first, like starting a new job or trying out a new trade but God rewards those who work hard and perservere. In marraige when Christ becomes the center of marraige, then everything that a couple does for the love of his other half, and brings Christ in the center, makes Christ first, then that sacrament of holy martrimony becomes whole. With this wholeness comes the rewards and the gifts.
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Posted Wednesday, June 11, 2008 11:01 PM By Mary Ann, SingingMum
Christopher, in a nutshell- 'difficult, but worth it'. That's our married experience. And considering the moral ramifications of grave sin and the statistical ramifications of divorce among contracepting or sterilized couples, what's the option, anyway? And I don't think its too rosy to remind anyone of Jesus' words. With the right attitude of heart, 'my burden is easy and my yoke is light'. My advice to friends and myself who find periods of abstinence hard- fidelity to Church teaching in this area boils down to the right thing to do, and is just as difficult- and just as worth it- as not lying, stealing, gossiping, hurting people, etc. Embrace the cross, in all areas of life. The fact that most of society, most Christians, see birth control as no problem, makes openness to life *seem* unnecessary, even wacky. And so people think they're being heroic when they're just doing what is right, and might start to pity themselves for their efforts... But in a morally confused society, maybe just doing what's right is heroic after all. In the final analysis, embracing the cross in any area turns out to be a blessing.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:55 AM By RR
According to Church teaching, any use of contraception is a mortal sin. I agree 100%. BUT, it does not work for everyone. It did not work for my husband and I. Not all women are like clockwork in their cycles. We never, never, never used any form of birth control. We believe it is pure evil. BUT, we took the classes and new all about it and it did not work for us because I was irregular. We have four children and each of them was conceived when I was in my so called infertile time period. To us, after our first two children, we just decided to let God plan our family. We were blessed with 4 children and we thank God for them. In our marriage vows we vowed to accept children lovingly from God. We should never see children as a burden. Some people say they cannot afford them. That is a serious misconception. With sacrifice, God will provide what you need. In a nutshell, Don't contracept, sacrifice, and let God's will be done.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:55 AM By Maria C
RR I like what you posted when you said "let God's will be done". Our blessed mother Mary gave us perfect example of obiediance and love, even when in reality it was difficult.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:42 AM By Joseph
Mr. Zehnder, you ask "Do you really think that no one finds NFP hard to practice? " I never said that, I said that that's not our experience (my wife and I) and that's not that experience of the friends we have who practice NFP. I'm sure that under certain circumstances other couples have experienced longer period of abstinence -- though I submit this is not the norm -- and I'm sure those couples struggle with longer periods of abstinence. But I can't testify to what I don't know. I can simply, honestly say that yes, for my wife and I, it has been a "bed of roses".
Now I must ask you -- are you married? Do you have personal experience with NFP? I'm guessing "no" because you seem to be coming at this topic from a purely theoretical perspective and not as someone who has practiced NFP. And you seem to disbelieve that a man could not hate abstinence. I was at that place once.
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:56 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Joseph,
I have heard enough people talk about the difficulties of practicing NFP to attest that they indeed find it difficult. If it's not the norm, it is at least seems a large enough minority to make a matter of some concern. Now, since I am not at all anonymous on this site, I have chosen not to talk about the intimate life I share with my wife -- because it's not for common consumption. I've never said anything about that aspect of our life to anyone at any time, and I'm not going to start now. So I will not say whether or not we have practiced NFP. I don't think one need reference his private "sex life" to address the questions I posed at the end of the essay. I shall reproduce them here:
"So, I invite this e-brotherhood (and sisterhood) to a discussion about contraception, NFP, and related topics. Why does the Church’s teaching on contraception make sense? What questions do people have about the teaching and NFP? How might we understand the difficulties associated with following Church teaching in this area so as to help us take on the burdens fidelity imposes? What advice can we give each other to deal with the difficulties we meet with day to day?"
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Posted Thursday, June 12, 2008 9:44 PM By John L. Sillasen
I do not get why it is so difficult ... St Paul put it in the simplest possible terms, terms which cover all situations. When not indulging, then pray.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 6:46 AM By Grisha
I know a very strict Catholic who did a tour in Afganistan and two to Iraq in the last 4/ 1/2 years. He's now at CENTCOM staff in the US, but has to make frequent inspection trips to the war zone. He commented that DOD seems to believe in UN-Natural Family Planning.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 9:28 AM By Maria C
Christopher Zehnder sounds to me like you want to start a support group for those that find NFP difficult?? Sometimes to much open discussions on church teachings can also lead to heresy if one does not have a faithful priest/teacher present to lead and answer any questions or concerns. Let it be known that people are more willing to discuss struggles than success, people are more likely to complain than to compliment. Some people tend to cling on to negative more than positive. The best thing is to always get on our knees and pray. God opens the door to truths and we can pray to God to help us see better. It's like breast feeding, at first with my first child it was difficult, but when I embraced nursing my child and perservered, it actually became easier and I then saw and understood that nursing is best and healthier for our children. The breast milk has more healthful bennifits than formula.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 9:30 AM By Mary-Lynn Ott
Hi again, I sense frustration! Yes, many couples embrace NFP and call it a blessing becasue that is what they feel at this time in their lives. But, all couples at one point had to learn and understand sex within marriage. Many couples have baggage: poor communication, previous contraceptive use thus no abstinence, irregular cycles...whatever you like. This doesn't make NFP not work, it makes it more of a challenge to use. But with anything when there is perservance and prayer things do happen. We as a couple had those struggles- actually the three I mentioned. Yes, they were struggles and at one point I would say it was a hardship, but I am miles away from those feelings now. As stated before I had side effects from artificial contraception, that affected me as well as others. This is something that everyone overlooks..even here. Those side effects are REAL. Why are people denying these realities which are more of a hardship then NFP? When we became obedient to the church, the understanding did come and then came the loving embrace of practicing NFP. Did this happen overnight. NO...when we teach NFP we talk about our struggles and then tell them our blessings. Answer to you questions? It makes sense because it is the truth.If you feel it imposes a burden, then you need to continue to seek the truth. This I think is helpful, reading the material some readers have suggested. There is numerous informaton out there including the bible and early teachings of the church as well as the most recent, Pope John Paul ll and this Pope have written excellent encyclicals on this subject? feel free to e-mail for a detailed list. Difficulties day by day? with NFP or life... prayer, adoration, the Mass; the ulimate sacrifice of love and self-giving. My husband and I have been married for 18 years this summer, for the day to day honest prayer TOGETHER has got us through our struggles.
Mary-Lynn
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 9:51 AM By Mary-Lynn Ott
I realized I need to be more specific. When my husband and I had our early struggles with NFP we prayed specifically for our needs. Whether you struggle with self-control, recognizing the signs of fertitliy or infertility, lack of sex drive or an other need prayer helps. Prayer together addressed our situation and helped us practice NFP successfully and we no longer saw it as a burden, but a gift.
Mary-Lynn.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 12:19 PM By Kathryn
An above poster wrote:
“It seems to me that saying that NFP methods impose or restrict couples' expressions of intimate love is the wrong way to look at it. NFP does not impose anything on a couple; rather, it gives couples information about the likelihood of fertility at a given time. It is the decision of the couple what to do with that information.”
That there pretty much sums it up. I suspect the couples who become angry, resentful, filled with tension and ill-will are the one who do not understand, or perhaps do not want to understand, that the “Church’s teaching” on sex and contraception is not something the boys in Rome came up with to make our lives miserable. Rather, it is a simple fact: God created the universe in a certain way, and part of that “certain way” is that the primary purpose of sex is procreation, and if/when people decide that contraceptive sex is the way to go, bad things eventually happen. Maybe not to that specific couple, and maybe not today or tomorrow. But eventually, society will fall apart.
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Posted Friday, June 13, 2008 12:20 PM By Kathryn
Couples who struggle with the abstinence required if they make the decision to avoid having a baby might benefit from the following:
1) Make sure the wife’s weight/height ratio is within a proper range. Both excessive fat tissue and lack of fat tissue will negatively impact the woman’s cycle, making determination of infertile/fertile times difficult.
2) Eat properly. It will help not only with the height/weight ratio, but in maintaining proper health, cycle length, etc.
3) Switch NFP methods: if CCL doesn’t work, try Creighton. If not Creighton, try Billings. Or try switching teachers within the method. Some people explain the method better or differently than others.
4) Learn about the bad consequences of contraception: environmental damage, abortafacient nature of hormonal types, increase in reproductive cancers, population control, demographic problems, etc.
5) Disconnect your cable/satellite television (rabbit ears too!) and go TV free. There is a tremendous amount of immorality on television, and surely that has a negative impact on one’s mood and outlook.
6) Here’s another idea to blow the mind: ask God to lower your sex drive. Really.
7) Don’t confuse the need/desire for sexual intimacy with the need/desire to be held and touched. Human babies suffer extreme damage and may die from a lack of tactile stimulation. The need diminishes as we grow, but doesn’t disappear altogether.
8) Marital (or spiritual) counseling. Couples who are fighting about sex (or money for that matter) might have something else going on that needs to be tended to. If this is the case, the Pill and/or condoms won’t help them any with relieving marital tension.
8) Get involved in something as a couple/family: a sport (tennis, soccer), organization (Scouting, or your parish)
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Posted Saturday, June 14, 2008 12:48 PM By FHKJ
The intent is the same with NFP or artificial birth control: contraception.
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Posted Saturday, June 14, 2008 7:53 PM By John L. Sillasen
FHKJ: Not so. St Paul says the marriage can involve periods of abstinance, as long as the couple spends the time in prayer. So, God allows abstinance, but not the act devoid of the possibility of conception. As always, the intent is either God or something else.
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Posted Sunday, June 15, 2008 5:09 PM By Sheila Kippley
A recent blog referred to me as "Mrs. Kippley of the Couple to Couple League." I want to make it clear that I have not been associated with CCL for over 4 years. The Couple to Couple League has dropped the teaching of ecological breastfeeding. For those interested in the changes in CCL teaching, go to www.nfpandmore.org and read some blogs (upper right corner). John and I have been very active in promoting natural family planning at this site and through our teachers. Sheila Kippley
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Posted Sunday, April 05, 2009 7:23 PM By lin
Sorry, but I agree wih Mr. Zehnder's article (contrary to all of the other ones posted here). Once I entered into premenopause, signs of fertility were all over the place and NFP became nearly impossible to apply. Although my husband and I used NFP for nearly 10 years, I did become very resentful of the difficulties it placed on my marriage once I hit my mid-40's and application became a nightmare (despite taking NFP classes). NFP is NOT a bed of roses, contrary to all the postings on this site. The times of abstention can be quite prolonged (becoming worse premenopause), and the changes in fertility for premenopausal women are virtually ignored. To continue practicing means even longer periods of abstention. NFP is touted as husband and wife equally sharing their fertility - PLEASE do not continue this fallacy. Men do not get pregnant, go through childbirth and stay home to raise the children. Spontaneity is completely gone, and, contrary to popular belief, some women have an interest in being intimate equal to, or even greater than, their husbands. (So many sites act like it's so tough on the husbands, but women can take it or leave it. Where does this attitude come from???) I am not complaining - having children is the greatest gift there is - BUT there is more to life than raising children. Men can do both, NFP largely thwarts this for women. If NFP technology could be updated so that such prolonged periods of abstention were not required, it would help. Despitethe claim that this is not the old rhythm method, I beg to differ how the periods of abstention involved are really much different. NFP has caused more tension and resentment in my marriage in the last few years since menopause began than I care to admit - and please don't say that there must be something else the matter. NFP can create tension in the marriage - and in mine, I don't think the benefits of NFP came anywhere close to outweighing the difficulties, struggles and resentments of it.
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Posted Monday, April 20, 2009 9:04 AM By Sally
Lin, Perhaps God is calling you to have a child in your later years? Whenever my husband and I start to resent practicing nfp, it seems to be time to be open to life.... or at least time to stop living in fear of having a child, regardless of the circumstances. God always provides.
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Posted Monday, June 08, 2009 9:44 AM By lin
Hi Sally,
Thank you for your comment. I am in a catch-22 no matter what I do. I do understand your comments, and know that God does provide - However, I always feel alone with this. While I know God does not abandon us, I have absolutely no support with either my family or my husband's. While my husband is a good husband and father, the vast majority of the responsibility of child-bearing falls on my shoulders. I am looking for a balance in my life - as my husband has enjoyed for the last 30 years - which is largely negated by NFP. It's not that I am not open to life. The issue is that I want to be able to continue to work (I work part-time) and, after 30 years of marriage, be able to enjoy time away with my husband ALONE from time-to-time. My life has continually revolved planning around my children - My husband's has NOT since he has me at home to watch the children and tend to the house while he's working, on business trips, etc. We are always told to tend to our marriages first - I have wanted to attend a Marriage Encounter for years and cannot, simply because overnight child-care has been a constant struggle for the last 30 years. My husband and children have more freedom than I'll ever have. It's difficult to see so many NFP women content to stay at home while the husbands have so much more freedom than we'll ever have. Where is the balance for the woman? When is child care and house work ever equally shared? When is time alone equally shared - my husband travels more with women he works with then he has even been able to do alone with me. This breeds much anger and resentment. Balance completely eludes me with NFP; despite the claims that NFP is "equally-shared", the onus of NFP affects the woman far greater than any man. While I love children, there is more to marriage than child-bearing. Perhaps more women would come on board with NFP if there was more of an equal distribution of balance between how it affects the man AND the woman.
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Posted Monday, June 08, 2009 11:32 AM By JLS
Obama said that babies are punishments. St Paul says that spouses should pray in the times when they choose no sex. What could be simpler? Follow Obama or St Paul? Easy choice.
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Posted Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:29 PM By lin
Does anyone struggle with NFP on this website; can anyone be candid about this??? Does anyone question the antiquated methods of its use? JLS mentions what could be simpler - Obama or St. Paul? I am certainly no fan of Obama. However, PLEASE be realistic here. Yes, you can pray when you are using NFP, but please admit if you are avoiding pregnancy (as well as intimacy during menstural cycles, many of us do for obvious reasons) )that you are abstaining close to 3 weeks a month. Is there something wrong with improving the technology of NFP so that such long periods of abstention can be shortened? This would greatly help (is there a reason why such periods of abstention cannot be shortened through improved technology?). Are we really called to avoid intimacy with our spouses 75% of each cycle? Also, my previous mentions of the onus of NFP falling largely on women - especially to the extent of which it effects their lives - has been largely ignored on this site. JLS, I am not sure if you are a man or a woman, but if you are a man, it is certainly easier to follow NFP when you do not have to come anywhere close to making the choices that a woman does when she uses NFP. Again, despite claims to the contrary, NFP does NOT equally effect the husband and wife in a relationship in any way, shape or form. JLS, NFP is NOT easy. Men can practice NFP AND have an active life outside of the home. While women can certainly do both, their life outside of the home is much more restricted when they are raising children. Raising children is certainly commendable, but it's easier for men to practice NFP AND have an actiive life outside of the home; for women, it's typically NFP OR an active life outside of the home. AND/OR make a big difference here. It's really easy for men to support this and say how great NFP is - they have the best of both worlds with using NFP. Women don't.
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Posted Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:17 PM By Ellen
Why did you get married if you didn't want to be pregnant and housebound?
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:50 AM By JLS
Profound intimacy is the norm for sacramental marriage, lin. In this mysterious togetherness is found peace. One of the outfalls of breaking sex tabus taught by the Church is the temporal effects of sin. Confession of sin normally does not reach the point where the temporal effects are eliminated. Sometimes we can't but carry scars all our lives unto the grave itself. But sometimes we can find the spiritual resources which take away the temporal effects or at least lessen them. Any time there is some kind of hangup, you betcher boots there's temporal effects of sin. My inclination is to tackle it head on, but this might not work. Sometimes it has to be written off, such as losing a leg ... aha, but the prothesis technology has arrived to help out here, right? So, as you wonder, then why not with NFP technology as well? lin, is technology going to take the place of marriage? Remember that this world is fleeting. Three weeks to you evidently feel like a long time ... I remember those days, where three seconds seemed like eternity. Now it's like feeling like running outside each evening with some kind of technology that will prop up the sun, so that the day will keep on going on. My recommendation to you is to strive with all you've got to deepen your marriage (what else is it really for?) while you can, before you get so old that three weeks seems like three seconds, where a thousand years seems as a day and a day as a thousand years. Lot's wife turned back to look on the destruction, even though she had been warned not to do so, and she was turned into a pillar of salt. But don't get gloomy ... one of my sisters is an outdoors fanatic, and was white water rafting at six months pregnancy without a problem. In Pearl Buck's Good Earth, the typical Chinese peasant woman would stop plowing the field, deliver her baby and tidy things up, and then return to the plow within hours ... how much outdoors activity do you want, lin?
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:28 AM By Mark from PA
Why can't a woman have an active life outside the home if she uses NFP? A big problem that I see it is that for many women the days when they can be active are the days when they are not interested and the days of ovulation (when desire peaks for many women) are the No-No days. I don't know but I can imagine that many people use a back-up plan when it comes to this.
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:30 AM By lin
Also, one more thing. Proponents of NFP claim that it has a very high rate of success. Certainly, that is true. What we don't hear about NFP however, (i.e. for those who are using it to avoid a pregnancy), is the prolonged periods of abstinence within a given month as well as from month to month that one must endure for this to be true. NFP largely works because intimacy is largely abstained from! Individuals have stated that those who use NFP are able to share intimacy as often as those who do not - what they are not saying is that spontaneity is gone, and that times of availability for intimacy would actually be spread out over a mcuh shorter period of time within a woman's cycle (i.e. a week or so). Perhaps men don't mind this, but, as a woman, it's certainly not the same. All things considered, I believe many individuals would engage in intimacy less because of the "enforced" (sorry I cannot find a better word here) time period in which one is confined to do so. If we can send man to the moon, we can improve on our technology with this. After all, if a woman can technically only conceive one day/month, why are the periods of abstention so long??? Seems like outdated technology to me. We are certainly called to suffer, but do periods of abstention within a marriage really need to be so prolonged with no hopes of improving the current system??? Are women (certainly more than men) simply called to accept this as is with no questions asked - or am I missing something? And, please, for the gentlemen on this forum, please consider the onus placed on the woman with this before stating how simple NFP is - Candidness with how women carry the vast responsibility for this would be helpful.
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:38 AM By Abeca Christian
There is no struggle in NFP for us. The only thing is as we age and as we approach our late 30's, it gets harder. Now that we want another child, I just wish we would of just been open to life completely and not have tried and worried about NFP. Just being completely open to life would of been a better option for us, now that as I am nearing 40, it is harder to conceive and the risk of a miscarriage is higher due to my age. If only I had this wisdom earlier in my 30's, I would of just allowed life to happen without any NFP. This is just own opinion and just what I feel. Learn from me, words to live on. A child is a blessing and being open to that blessing is truly humbling and beautiful.
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:19 AM By JLS
Women are not meant nor designed to impersonate couch potatos, but to be active. Houses are not usually big enough for much activity, and women traditionally spend time outdoors. Vegetable gardens take considerable effort both physically and mentally, and the gardener has also to pray for rain and sunshine for it. The produce is always vastly better too. And it provides a venue for training and educating children. This is one model, and can be deployed both in rural and in urban environments. But what I was getting at in my previous post was the intrinsic nature of marriage ... does one define it from the outside or does one discover it from the inside? I think this addresses the necessity of comprehending marriage. As for children being blessings, well no blessing is free. All blessings have costs. Blessings be upon the Cross.
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 10:34 AM By lin
To Abeca Christian - Certainly a child is a blessing. But, again, the responsibility of raising, loving and nurturing the child that results through being open to life falls largely to the mother. The original article states that NFP is, likely, more difficult for the man. The only thing that is considered in this statement is the restraining of the act of intimacy itself - the responsibility of raising the child is not even considered in this statement (why is this not reflected upon in the article; this certainly needs to be taken into consideration). While NFP is considered jointly shared, as in the act of intimacy itself, isn't it also proper to consider the responsibilities of the woman and the man when a child is conceived? Wouldn't NFP be much more harmonius if the responsibility of raising the child was more equally distributed among the husband and the wife??? Can we find a balance here, please, or must women (alone) be content with the status quo of NFP while men continue with the best of both worlds? This statement continues to be ignored with the comments made here. NFP is a little like the Cinderella story - Women are told they can do anything, yet with the responsibilities of raising children, it's quite difficult having a life outside of raising children, at least not anywhere close to what men are able to accomplish while still using NFP. Is more of a balance available for women here, or is bearing children our only calling in life? Anyone care to comment and/or directly respond to any of the specific concerns that I have posted?
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:45 PM By Anne T.
Lin, the truth is that most women can't have it all. One of the reason's my own daughters were able to get a college diploma (one a Masters and one a B.A.) was because I kept work outside the home down to permanente part time, so I could be home when my daughters needed attention. Furthermore, I stayed home when they were very small most of the time. I have also helped take care of my oldest daughter's sons because she was either the chief provider -- her husband making less money -- or the only provider. Believe me, behind every "successful" woman, in the eyes of the world, is usually another woman taking care of the children, whether it be a grandmother, teacher, daycare worker or nanny.
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Posted Wednesday, June 10, 2009 4:00 PM By Anne T.
I would like to add that the men in our family did do some of the babysitting, child watching, too, but not as much.
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Posted Thursday, June 11, 2009 10:16 AM By lin
Anne - Thanks for your comments. While I certainly understand that most women can't have it all (and I do appreciate your candor with this - you are the first person on this site to actually directly address my concerns, and I appreciate that!), the fact remains that this is not the case for men. My husband is a good man, husband and father, and in the last 3-5 years has come "more on board" to help with housework. When our children were small, he did help with childcare as needed, but, with few exceptions, I remained home fulltime for 20years; even today, I only work pt. However, with the vast majority of jobs for those in the business world being 8-5 (such as my husband's),we had to be quite creative in the hours that I could attend school and/or work part-time. I am not complaining. We did what we could. But, again, my main argument (if you will) is that men do not need to live their lives like this. They secure employment, then work family, etc. around that. For the most part, women do just the opposite - working employment, life outside the home, around their families. Although my husband is a good person, he has had advantages that I have never had simply because he is a man and it's a man's world - even in the world of NFP. My hope is that technology be improved with NFP so that it is not such a strain on families (contrary tothe main article, the effects of NFP extend throughout our lives, not only within the act of intimacy itself), and the world (as we know it), becomes more balanced (i.e. life, family, home, work, school) so that opportunities for family, work AND play are more equally enjoyed by men AND women, and not just men. It's frustrating that men can have their cake and eat it too with NFP - but, again, women sit back and take the inequality in stride. Certainly there must be a way for women to use NFP AND find balance in their lives like men. It certainly is time - Anne, thanks again for your thoughts and candidness on this subject.
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Posted Sunday, June 14, 2009 6:52 PM By lin
In regards to the posting by Ellen - I hope your comment is a joke. It's one thing to be pregnant - it's another to continuously be homebound. And in regards to the posting by Mark - There is NO backup for NFP. It's NFP or abstinence ONLY. Also, in regards to activity (or lack thereof) outside of the home - It's much more difficult to be active outside of the home when child care has to be constantly arranged. This is not to say that women can't be active outside of the home - certainly they can be. What I am saying, however, is that when women have to always work life outside of the home around family and children, many limitations for life outside of the home occur. Again, most of what I've done outside of my home has either been with my children or working jobs part-time on odd schedules so that my husband can help out. Of course, this entails less time between my husband and myself. How does NFP play into this - More children means continual scheduling around the family. I'm simply trying to make a point here that men (no matter how much they promote NFP) do not live their lives like this. As I stated earlier, I hope in my lifetime that I see technology improve with NFP so that periods of abstention are not so great. Perhaps NFP would be considered as more "equal" between the spouses (as it is currently touted) when the life-balance is maintained not just during intimacy itself, but with the growing of the family that result from the use of NFP. Believe me, I'm not complaining here. Children ARE the greatest blessing there is, BUT I am looking for a balance for women who use NFP which currently exists much more for men in their day-to-day lives. Men can say whatever they want, but the balance they find with NFP usually eludes the women who use it.
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Posted Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:15 PM By Toni
Home is where the heart is. My momma would say, "If you're not homebound, you're hellbound."
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Posted Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:35 PM By JLS
lin, did God command man to multiply or to work? Which is His priority for man? In other words, man has the obligation to bear and raise lots of children (multiply is a stronger verb than add or limit), and to find ways to support this effort ... without defeating the effort. Where do we find that God has revealed to us that we are responsible for determining the limit of childbearing? I've never heard of it, other than in the mandates by organizations hostile to God.
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Posted Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:50 PM By Abeca Christian
Hi Lin. Thanks for your post. Wish I can go more into detail but here it is short and sweet, well sort of. Yes the responsibility in raising a child is great but in my case, I love kids. I enjoy being a mom and my husband and I enjoy sharing our love with all our children. I guess when you embrace Christianity and God's plan, then life just flows as it should with God's blessings and all of God's graces are shed on the faithful. I can also tell you that with time, I became a better mother, with each child, I grew more in understanding God's plan, I continue to understand that now even thought I am nearing 40. I have my regrets for the selfish person I was in my younger years, seeing our kids as blessings have taught me to never take them for granted and I truly am grateful to God for the children He has blessed us with. Even with the miscarriages I had, I am grateful for even them. I saw them as little visitors just passing by until our good Lord called back home to Him. I'm the kind of mom that grew into the type of mom who actually learned to enjoy getting up in the wee hours of the night so to care for my children as needed. I am grateful for those times because they taught me to die of my selfish ways and tend to the needs of these precious little ones in which our precious Lord has entrusted to me to care for. I know that sometimes it is not easy but I can't explain to you the virtuous one gains with their total obedience to God Almighty when being open to life at all times. Can't deny that fear or mixed emotions come into play, that is normal and human. You are right, it is very important when you have a husband that also embraces God's plan because I'm sure if one does not have the support to be open to life, then that life may be a lot more harder and some may actually lose trust in the NFP method for fear of what the husband may do. Praise God I am married to a faithful godly man, not perfect but always seeking Christ and His ways.
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Posted Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:26 AM By lin
Thanks to everyone for their comments ~ Please do not misunderstand the comments I have posted. I certainly love my kids and am blessed by all of them. Certainly, they are the greatest blessing that I have. While being a mother is THE most important role I have, it is not the ONLY one. This is where I appear to differ from many of the comments made on this site. When I married many years ago (in the Church), I was not even aware of NFP. NFP is like being a Catholic, i.e. it's not limited to going to mass one day a week. It's 24-7. NFP (contrary to how it's touted) is not limited to the bedroom; the decision made to abstain (or not) and the resulting fruits (i.e. children) of those decisions made effect our lives 24-7. Abeca, you have made many worthwhile points - However, the consistent theme throughout the responses that I am hearing is really the role of the husband vs. the role of the wife for those who practice NFP. With NFP (with few exceptions), there appears to be little intermingling of the roles of each. The woman lives the traditional role of mother and homemaker, and the husband lives a traditional role of breadwinner, tossed in with the contemporary man. Again, the idea that is either missed here (or just ignored), is why, in the 21st century, is there not a way that women (like men) can care for their children, while also enjoying more of the advantages that a man has and continue to practice NFP at the same time? Men do this while using NFP; women don't. This doesn't mean shortchanging your children by any means. Men CAN maintain that balance while using NFP - Is balance for woman really such a bad thing? Why? Can't we find more of a balance while raising our children at the same time?
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Posted Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:34 AM By lin
Comment to Toni - In regards to your comment - "If you're not homebound, you're hellbound". If a woman who is not "bound to the home" is "hellbound", does the same criteria hold for a man? If not, this appears to be a very sexist comment. Certainly there are women who do neglect their children for the sake of outside employment - obviously, this is not acceptable. However, there are women who must work (due to single incomes, etc.), as well as those who., like myself, waited until their children were all in school to begin working outside of the home and who continue to work around their children's schedules so that they are always home when they are (the social networks that previously existed for stay-at-home moms have largely diminished over the years, as well - Working outside of the home can provide for socialization where otherwise many women continue to be very isolated when homebound). I am "hellbound" because I don't continue to remain homebound for the rest of my life? What about men - Just because a man may be considered the traditional breadmaker (at least by many on this particular site), doesn't mean they are not taking advantage of their situation in the workplace (i.e. longer hours at work, business travel, etc. at the expense of their family at home). This is a two-way street.
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Posted Wednesday, June 17, 2009 9:40 AM By lin
JLS - Can you explain your comment "Where do we find that God has revealed to us that we are responsible for determining the limit of childbearing?" Am I correct in understanding that husbands and wives (even with good reason) are not to determine the limit of our childbearing, even when using NFP to do so? We are called to be good parents and raise our children as good and decent Catholics, but is this our ONLY role? Is this the only role for women? Women can be good mothers while developing other aspects of their beings at the same time.
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Posted Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:03 PM By G
We have had long periods of abstinence with cycles "flirting" with returning, but never an actual period--ie, 3 or 4 months with very limited intimacy, including one 5-6 week period of total abstinence.
To say this has felt like crucifixion for me as the husband is true (although I am weak and have not born it well). It has caused strains in our marriage as I sometimes feel like we should just "take a chance" and wonder whether these extraordinarily long periods of abstinence are really what He wills, but we are quite confident that we have enough children for this moment (4 under 7), that we are very spent, esp. the wife who stays home, and we just need a breather.
Praying for wife's cycles to return and for grace to make it each day...esp those days when we find out that we can't be intimate at the end of the day after it looked like we might finally have a chance to be together.
Perhaps we're not learning all the lessons we should be as I trust the Lord has a purpose in this!!
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Posted Friday, November 20, 2009 11:53 AM By lin
Thank you, "G", for your comment posted earlier this month. I will keep you in my prayers, as abstinence (especially the long periods often required by NFP) can really be difficult in a marriage. I guess I often just really wonder why, with technology being as advanced as it is, why advances cannot be made in the application of NFP so that such long periods of abstention could be shortened. We so often hear that NFP is not the old "rhythm" method. While NFP today is certainly more geared towards the individual women's particular cycle, the periods of abstention required don't appear to be much different. If a woman can only become pregnancy 24-36 hours in a given month, why must periods of abstention be so long? From the time my husband and I began practicing NFP in my early 30's up until my mid-40's, it was not unusual to abstain nearly 3 weeks a month, save for (maybe) 1-2 days a month between when my period ended and signs of fertility began. Contrary to how NFP is touted, this 15 year cycle of 75%/month abstention did not enhance our intimacy or our marriage. I certainly realize that there are many ways to show affection in a marriage, but abstaining from intimacy so long every month consistently for years is very difficult. And while I know many will question the "justification" of doing so (i.e. just cause for postponing a child), it would be of such benefit to a marriage if the raising of children could be equally shared. With many men working 40+ hours a week outside the home, and many women left to the vast majority of child care alone during this time period, esp. when there may be little outside support (such as was my particular situation), it is not hard to understand why individuals often postpone such decisions. Certainly if I did become pregnant my husband and I would love any children we have. However, easier application of NFP w/shorter periods of abstention would certainly make NFP less onerous.
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Posted Friday, November 27, 2009 9:16 AM By lin
Just one more comment (I'll keep it brief!) - I've always felt that NFP had a degree of difficulty built into it. With the advances made in technology today, surely there is a way to adhere to church teaching with this issue while making periods of abstinence shorter and application simpler and much easier to follow. Perhaps simpler methods regarding the above are being worked on??? Maybe more individuals would follow NFP if this were the case (I don't think it's because individuals simply aren't aware of NFP). Just a thought..........
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Posted Monday, November 30, 2009 8:12 PM By Sarah
Are you KIDDING ME? MEN suffer the most? Women do all of the work for NFP! Men just have to keep it in their pants. Speak to some women who actually follow the method.
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Posted Wednesday, December 09, 2009 6:55 PM By lin
Sarah - Can you please clarify your comments? I'm assuming that your last sentence refers to speaking to women who actually follow NFP. Although this website appears to want to engage individuals in an honest and open discussion of NFP, it often appears on sites such as this that those individuals who struggle with NFP (or question the ease of use of the method) are often put down by others on the posting. Is this how you see it? If honest discussion is asked for, then when individuals leave sincere comments, they should be respected as such. NFP is often difficult, and it doesn't help when individuals continue to sugar-coat it. It is what it is - Again, simplifying it and making it more user-friendly (while following church teaching) could bring more people on board. Again, just a thought..........
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Posted Friday, May 07, 2010 9:32 AM By Lee
Well, I'm very late to this party, but I found this thread by typing "I hate NFP" into Google. I read many of the comments, although not all, and I wanted to add my perspective. I am a 32 year old woman with 3 children (2,4,6 years old). We've been married 10 years. After my 3rd child, I had severe post-partum depression to the point that I seriously considered self-harm. It took many months for me to pull out of that, and it was extremely hard for the entire family. Because of the chance of this happening again, my husband and I prayerfully decided to avoid conception...maybe forever. For a long time, at least. So, we've used the "avoid" rules of NFP. I have a shorter luteal phase of 11-12 days. We do not use early days because I have ovulated as early as day 11 or 12 of my cycle, although usually more like 14-15. Although my cycles are shorter than average, my periods are long and heavy, so we do not use those days either. Therefore, out of every cycle, we can use approximately 9 days for intercourse. The other 17-18 days are off limits.
We have 3 kids. My husband has a somewhat low sex drive because of job stress. We OFTEN miss the 9 day window because of business trips, sickness, child-related issues, or simply fatigue.
I agree with you, Christopher. Thank you for writing your article. I hate NFP with all my heart. I do it because I know that not to do so is a sin, but I loathe it completely and fully. I can never have union with my husband when my body urges me to--I am too afraid of putting my family and myself through depression again. We miss 2, 3 even 4 months in a row sometimes because of circumstances. We have sex less than 10 times a year, so that qualifies us as living in a "sexless" marriage. Although my husband is not as bothered, I certainly am.
There's no way out of this mess for us until menapause. I just try not to think about it too much, and to offer the suffering up to God. I still hate it though.
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Posted Thursday, July 01, 2010 11:11 PM By lin
It doesn't get any easier prior to menopause. I have found that women and their particular situation at this point in their lives is virtually ignored when looking for NFP info during this phase. NFP is always touted as "more difficult for men" than women (get a life, please!), and as a practice that is shared by both. But no one tells you that the sharing is not on an equal basis for both husband and wife (maybe 90/10). Let's admit it........the onus of NFP falls largely to the woman......this is hardly sharing, at least in the 50/50 sense. And when NFP is touted as being as effective as contraceptive methods, how often do you hear about the extended periods of abstinence that are needed to maintain that same effectiveness rate? NFP is hardly all fun and games, and it's pretty misleading to present it as such.
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Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:43 PM By Marilyn
I'm late to the party as well, but I feel compelled to respond in support of Lin and Lee. I have been married for 22 years and have 4 beautiful children that are truly a blessing, but now as I'm apparently entering perimenopause, NFP is becoming more than just an inconvenience. I challenge all of the NFP-lovers to read and understand the guidelines during the premenopausal years. I just finished reading a document where there are 14 different rules each with varying prohibitions and calls for abstinence. My husband doesn't travel, but like Lee's situation, his libido is low and it seems the only times he's interested are times when we can't. Lastly, I'm sick to death of people who say that NFP is only a burden for men and that men desire sex more than women. I've actually prayed over the years to lose my desire for sex and intimacy.
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Posted Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:54 PM By L
My fiance and I recently began attending NFP classes (The Creighton Model) and have planned on using NFP in our marriage. In the beginning we were very excited to use this as we were told how wonderful it would be for our relationship,etc. Then class after class we began to be told the "truth" about it. We have become more and more frustrated by what we are learning. Once we were deeply involved in using nfp we learned on our honeymoon we could only have sex every other day at the end of the day....Now not to say we are going to be sex maniacs but come one, its our honeymoon, I feel like that rule is very unrealistic.
I also feel that it has been created in the mindset that all couples are the same and that we all have a schedule that allows for sex every single day that we are in a "non-fertile" time. However if you are like me and are marrying a man who has a job as a firefighter and that takes him away for days at a time every single week (and sometimes weeks at a time) you begin to see that using NFP means only having at best 5-8 free days of sex and that is assuming we are able to on his days off when I am not fertile. So Look at it this way, we would not be able to have sex 22-23 days of the month.
I have been truly heartbroken over this because we are good practicing Catholics who want to follow the churches teachings but at the same time want a healthy marriage with a good sex life. I am at a total loss as to what to do. I have read over and over again about needing to make sacrifices, etc. But Believe me, we do. Every single time he goes to work we will already be making a sacrifice to not have sex. It is so frustrating to have to sacrifice even on the days he is home. I never thought I would consider using a form of birth control but I truly do not know what else to do.
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Posted Saturday, August 07, 2010 5:54 PM By lin
In regards to L's comments - I understand your frustration. If we use contraception, we are committing a grave sin. If we don't, we are told to be open to life, yet, at the same time, if we don't want to conceive, that abstention is the best. If NFP is such a sure thing, than why do we need to abstain "just in case"? Sure, NFP works, but, again, seldom do NFPers respond to the periods of abstinence that are required for it to have the same rate of reliabiliIty as those who use contraceptives. It is still very hard to believe (for me, anyway), that in this day and age of technological advancements, that rules for NFP cannot be more modified and made simpler to apply, so that one can follow church teaching AND not have to have so much abstinence built into the method. Those that say only a few days a month are required need to define "few" and/or they know something I don't know (my husband and I practiced NFP for 10 years). And, also, "L" is right. While NFP touts that those who practice NFP may be able to be intimate as many days as those who don't practice NFP, that is taking into account that all non-fertile days are used. Women may enjoy being intimate with their spouses, but I think many of us are much less likely to be intimate 7-8 days in a row, as opposed to spreading that 7-8 days over an entire month. NFP doesn't give you that choice. All things considered, then, if average intimacy (which, obviously varies from couple to couple) is 1-2 x/week, many practicing NFP may find that this also holds true for them, which cuts intimacy drastically. (Seriously, how many use all the days in cycle 3? Spare me). Certainly, there are other ways to showing intimacy (non-sexually) in a marriage, but I feel as though NFP, especially during pre-menopause, has cut our periods of intimacy to nil because there is so little consistent information out there. Isn't it possible to make NFP MORE user friendly while not having to abstain 75% of the month???
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Posted Saturday, August 07, 2010 6:04 PM By lin
In regards to my previous comment...........Many practicing NFPers may scoff at my previous comment of 75% abstention per month. However, if a couple abstain during a women's menstrual cycle (not uncommon, at least on some days), and only have, at most, a couple of days prior to the fertile period, that largely leaves only cycle 3. If a woman has a short cycle, and or other reasons for abstaining during that particular cycle (stress, work-related issues, child issues, children or spouse ill, husband travelling, alternate work schedules, etc.), there are a number of variables that must be in synch for cycle 3 to be compatible with the non-fertility time of a woman's cycle. Certainly, others will argue that NFP is not to be used with a contraceptive mentality. But if we can, with a good conscience, decide that now is not a good time to conceive, again, certainly some ease of use, in light of technological advances in today's society, can be found and incorporated into current NFP models. Contrary to claims that NFP will be considered to be one of the "best" discoveries of the 20th century, I beg to differ. As far as days of abstention are concerned, how is this REALLY (honestly) any different from the old rhythm method? There's a lot of improvement, or at least ease of use, that can still be found within current models, while still adhering to church teaching. I find it hard to believe that such cannot be done.
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Posted Saturday, August 07, 2010 6:33 PM By lin
Sorry for so many posts here. Anyway, previous mention of the word "cycle" (i.e. cycle 3, etc.) should have been referred to as "phase" (i.e. phase 3, etc.). Sorry I used the incorrect terminology!
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Posted Wednesday, August 11, 2010 10:19 AM By lin
Correction to my previous posts from 8/07..........In regards to the comment made about NFP being as reliable as contraceptives, what needs to be taken into account (which is generally unspoken and/or ignored by NFP individuals) is that "extended" periods of abstinence are required monthly (and, in some situations, even moreso) in order for rates of reliability to be either the same and/or similar as birth control (I left this out of my text)........Also, in regards to my second post from 8/07, text should have read "There's a lot of improvement, or at least ease of use, that needs to be made within current models". I believe my previous wording made it sound as though that is the case now, which it is not.
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