|
Published: August 16, 2007
And the Republicans were silent
SB 777 -- a “Stealth Attack” advances through the California legislature.
The California legislature is expected to approve this month a bill redefining “gender and “discrimination” in a way that poses a moral threat to California’s schoolchildren. According to Catholics for the Common Good (ccgaction.org), the bill, SB 777, would “promote discrimination against the Judeo-Christian understanding of human sexuality.”
Termed the "Student Civil Rights Act," the bill’s intent, says the its author, Sheila Kuehl, is to protect California students from "bullying and harassment" and to "ensure a safe learning environment."
The legislation’s main impact, however, would be to prohibit any "instruction, school activities, or instructional material" that "reflects or promotes a discriminatory bias against" homosexual, transgender, or bisexual persons.
“Prohibiting bias” might sound innocuous, explains Catholics for the Common Good, until you understand what homosexual interest groups perceive as “discrimination” and “bias.” By these terms they refer to any recognition of the natural complementarity of male and female, the historic universality of marriage between male and female; normal human sexuality, traditional sexual ethics, and the natural family.
“For seven years, lesbian state senator Sheila Kuehl has been trying to pass a homosexual curriculum teaching affirmatively about gay, lesbian, and transgender issues from K-12,” Randy Thomasson of Campaign for Children and Families, told California Catholic Daily.
“This bill requires textbooks, instructional materials, and school-sponsored activities to positively portray cross-dressing, sex-change operations, homosexual ‘marriages,’ and all aspects of homosexuality and bisexuality.”
Moreover, said Thomasson, “silence on these sexual lifestyles will simply not be permitted. Schools or school boards who fail to cooperate with the program would be sued by the attorneys at the California Department of Education.”
“Lawsuit is the enforcement mechanism,” says Peter LaBarbera (AmericansForTruth.com), “and most people don’t realize what that means: the text will not define the law. The lawyers and courts will define the law.”
According to Catholics for the Common Good, law professor Francisco Valdes argued in the California Law Review that “Christianity itself is the cause of the oppression of gays, lesbians, transgender persons, and women.”
One international law expert cited by CCGaction.org, speaking in favor of a resolution strikingly similar to SB 777, explained, "Any time a teacher says that heterosexuality is in any way desirable, that is an act of homophobia. To teach in favor of the family is to abuse those who have traditionally not been able to participate in it."
These samples of the looming liberal legal consensus are pertinent precisely because the language of SB 777 is so vague. This ambiguity guarantees that school boards and teachers will proactively present all “sexualities” in order to avoid expensive lawsuits.
What’s worse, according to Thomasson, is that while Republicans in the legislature have generally voted against SB 777, not one of them has, to date, spoken out publicly against it. Thomasson warns that if it passes the Democratic-dominated legislature, as expected, without debate and on a swift party-line vote, only Governor Schwartzenegger’s veto will be able to stop the sexual restructuring of classroom instruction for California’s 6 million schoolchildren
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:04 AM By stlouisix
This moral atrocity needs to be seen for what it is, the forced homosexualization of our youth, and stopped in its tracks; else, our children are at risk by catering to the demands of a selfish sick lunatic fringe who demand that society make them comfortable with their vices under force of law, demonizing all opposition in the process. Let's tell it like it is! There needs to be justified righteous indignation at the prospect of sexual perverts dictating to our children that behavior proven to be physically, psychologically, socially, and economically ruinous, let alone the spiritual implications, is somehow normal which is as insane as it gets! It's garbage to use a "bullying" argument to justify the acceptance moral aberrations! Bullying can be stopped without doing that. Kuehl and her ilk must be seen for what they are, liars, moreover, disciples of the devil, the father-of-lies! There are no civil rights to aberrant behavior; else, anarchy exists. States are supposed to promote the "common good", not the "common bad." What's good about the ligitimization of sodomitic lifestyles which are attacks on both faith AND reason? Someone needs to ask Kuehl "What's safe about violating the Natural Law of God, per the consequences of CDC HIV/AIDS Surveillance Reports since their inception, the mere suggestion of safety being preposterous?" We need to stop being nice to the devil here and start standing up to his disciples who want company in hell! If we don't do that, we cease being responsible parents and grandparents, and we certainly are not Catholic given that homosexuality is a sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance! We are not obliged to cower to the temper tantrums of the Kuehl crowd. Rather, we're called to expose their heinous lies when and where they rear their ugly heads for the sake of leaving our children a country fit to live in, as opposed to pro-sodomite totalitarian states like Canada & the UK. Seehttp://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m157.htm m
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:17 AM By bruce
More Sodom and Gomorrah tyranny. The homosexuals won't let normal people speak their beliefs, and natural law, but the homosexuals demand that we accept their perverted beliefs. Judgment is coming. I wouldn't be surprised if God uses as His instrument a nuke from Red China, North Korea, or a Muslim terrorist. Speak up like Lot or move out of town.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:28 AM By Rich
A question: would this apply only to public schools or would this be forced upon Catholic schools also?
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:56 AM By John
Will the real Governor of California please stand up?
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:41 AM By Diego
I was around gays when I was a kid along with everyone else I ever knew. Not one of us straight folks ever turned into a gay. They might be 2 or 3% of our population. The Catholic Church has tons of gay laity, priests, bishops, and cardinals. The Catholic Church is not exactly a poster child for the non-gay life style. Remember he/she who throws stones......
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:56 AM By Patrick
St. Louis:
There is no such thing as 'forced homosexualization'. Look at the statistics of the ratio of homosexuals to the general population . It is constant over the decades. You can't force young people to choose homosexuality. In fact the experts to this day do not know what causes this behavior. If young people see two people of the same gender kissing, their immediate reaction is one of aversion unless they are predisposed to this type of behavior. However, I agree that taxpayer money should not be used to inform or foster the ideal of the homosexual lifestyle.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:25 AM By Florentius
Here we go. The homosexuals not only want a free hand to recruit school children into the deathstyle, they want to make it illegal for anyone to challenge them on it. I'm about sick of these brown-shirt tactics.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:33 AM By stlouisix
Patrick, there most certainly is (forced homosexualization) in the context of making inclinations to homosexuality benign, i.e., acceptable, which is a bald-faced lie, and what is defacto what is happening in our schools via indoctrination masking as education. To say otherwise is being in denial! That is exactly what Kuehl & Co are trying to do by trying to shut up all opposition. This has been the modus operandi of the Kuehl pro-sodomites at Penn State who were on the school board of the State College Area School district, telling the same lies as reported in this story, and who basically got their way until a courageous parent challenged them legally, which went to the Court of Appeals in PA ruling in favor of that parent, i.e., in favor of sanity. Moreover, these same types were using the University mail to promote their morally bankrupt agenda until I, as a Catholic member of the faculty, personally complained to the PSU president, and went public on this to concerned members of the PA General Assembly. We weren't all born yesterday, give me a break! The message being preached here is that being inclined to homosexual acts is the same thing as being right or left handed, which is insane, given the well known adverse consequences for which school districts promoting homosexuality as normal should be liable! You tell lies often enough that go unchallenged, they start to be believed! That is the message being preached to the school district in KY wherein my granddaughters reside. Responsible parents don't have to put up with that rot! Diego, the Catholic Church needs an exorcism to remove those who are destroying her from within. There are Catholics who understand the seminal truths of the faith, and are defending them. Regardless of the rot in the institutional Church itself, invariant Catholic moral teaching here speaks very clearly that inclinations to homosexual acts are objectively disordered for the very good reasons previously given.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:37 AM By Papamac
Why are gays so fearful of Christianity, oh; they can cry all the
old cliches of the hateful Gospels, that Christians are homophobics and all the other words that come to their little minds. But lets just call a spade a spade, they do want to force their pathetic lifestyles on as many as possible using our schools down to the lowest grades to bring their vulgarities to our Children. Gay pride parades are an ideal example of how low a human being can go to exhibit their sickness. Calls to our Republician gutless representatives are necessary to let them know that this will result in a backlash even if the Governor vetoes it, if they do not get of their duffs and vote for higher moral standards than what the demoncrats are once again trying to force down our throats. I might ask, where are our Catholic and other Christian leaders voices on this issue, the silence is deafening is it not, another sad commentary on the teachings of the Gospels. Judas appears to be alive and well.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:53 AM By ELIZABETH
DIEGO,
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT HATE HOMOSEXUALS......
ONLY THE SIN.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:53 AM By Patty
It doesn't matter whether or not there is such a thing as forced homosexualization. Engaging in genital activity with people of the same sex is personally and socially destructive and should not be portrayed as normal or good.Homosexuals are being used by subversive elements within our society today to undermine the fiber of western judeo-christian civilization. As responsible citizens we must reject efforts to promote this perversion under the guise of preventing bullying or discrimination or other high-sounding pretexts.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:17 AM By Joel
Great, I'm now going to become a cross dressing homosexual and take over the so called free world and teach your children. Grow up and get a life!!! Jesus Loves You!!!!!!
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:52 AM By Talia
I think children still have more to fear from our morally bankrupt Roman Catholic Church, rather than from US Citizens exercising their GOD given right to free speech. And why is it so important to indentify Sheila Kuehl as the, LESBIAN SENATOR? If you insist on tagging everyone, then lets identify members of the Roman Catholic Clergy for what they really are.... Father So & So, THE SODOMIZER OF LITTLE BOYS. Bishop So & So, THE RAPIST. Cardinal So & So, THE ENABLER AND PROTECTOR OF PRIEST CHILD MOLESTERS*. There is too much filth and slime in the Roman Catholic Church that needs a good cleaning first. Why not start in the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops?
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:17 PM By Donna
What is really eery about all this is how militant homosexuals seem to ooze in just about everywhere, including an orthodox Catholic website such as this.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:24 PM By stlouisix
Talia asks, "Why not start with the USCCB?" Some of us did, Talia. See the following links. The USCCB Refuses To Address THE Problem Causing Church Scandals http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m136.htm The Maddening Spin to Make the USCCB Colorado Decision into Something that It Is Not http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m194.htm The USCCB Has Proven It is Definitely Not Catholic! http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m245.htm Who Do the USCCB Bishops Think That They Are Kidding? http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m255.htm How the Faith Was Destroyed in the Altoona-Johnstown Pennsylvania Diocese Under the Reign of Joseph V. Adamec http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m259.htm We have a life, Joel, one which the pro-sodomite crowd will not let those wanting to leave as opposed to live homosexual lifestyles have. See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070710/gays-psychologists/. The problem is not with those who want to leave, who deserve our prayers and support, but rather with the selfish who won't let them, wanting everything on THEIR terms with no opposition tolerated! The reason Kuehl is identified as such, Talia, is that she does not deserve to be given carte blanche to pollute the minds of our children with the aforementioned posted lies of the militant pro-homosexual lobby of which she's a member! Schools are supposed to be teaching the truth, not lies, especially when they receive the hard earned tax money of those who are not obliged to subsidize the social engineering agenda of sexual perverts! The NARTH website is full of refs on the lies of this crowd who want to muzzle the truth that you CAN leave homosexual lifestyles, i.e., there is no such thing as a final orientation to homosexuality. We're not talking about immutable characteristics such as skin color or ethnicity here due to genes, which is even agreed to by pro-homosexual researchers. We're talking about proven changeable aberrant behavior per the APA, NARTH, COURAGE, EXODUS, and PFOX!
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:24 PM By John L. Sillasen
Pope Elizabeth posted: THE CATHOLIC CHURCH DOES NOT HATE HOMOSEXUALS...... ONLY THE SIN. Elizabeth, the problem becomes one where the homosexual actually becomes the sin ... in which case you are correct, that the Church hates the sin. You have to remember that there is the sin which is called the sin against the Holy Spirit ... and this sin is unredeemable. Perversion and especially its agitators have really run up against this point of no return. God (this includes Jesus, recall) obliterated the sodomist towns of Sodom and Gomorrah by bombing it with fire and brimstone. Again, the sinner can become the sin.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:27 PM By Max
Is it not interesting that the number seven of this particular Bill SB 777 is a tripple seven? In the Book of Revelation the number seven is very prophetic and prominent in proclaiming divine judgement and the wrath of God when the Lamb breaks the seven seals, followed by the seven trumpets being given to the seven angels who stand in the presence of God. California has always liked being on the cutting edge of new fads and new trends. As goes California goes the rest of America. California do not tempt the Lord Thy God any further than you already have. Pray much California and America for the protection of your children and their families.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:39 PM By Donna
Why are these lies being told by a Cristian group. I was raised Catholic and was taught it was a sin to lie.
SB 777 does not require textbooks, instructional materials, and school-sponsored activities to positively portray cross-dressing, sex-change operations, homosexual ‘marriages,’ and all aspects of homosexuality and bisexuality.
SB 777 prohibits a teacher from giving instruction, and a
school district from sponsoring any activity, that reflects adversely upon anyone based on their disability, gender, nationality, race or ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or any other characteristic that is contained in the definition of hate crimes set forth in Section 422.55 of the Penal Code, equal rights and opportunities in the educational institutions of the state.
This includes heterosexuality.
There is nothing in the Bill which even remotely suggests "silence on these sexual lifestyles will simply not be permitted."
Saying nothing cannot be deemed a bias. When's the last time anyone was sued or prosecuted for what they didn't say?
This propaganda is merely fear mongering.
Jesus, the first Christian, turned away no-one, not even Judas who betrayed him.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:01 PM By Talia
Glad to hear it stlouisix! Now Pray that the Faithful will take to heart the message of the Love of Christ and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit. I DO NOT PRESUME TO SPEAK FOR THE LORD, AND NEITHER SHOULD THE REST OF YOU.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 4:43 PM By FDB
Talia is using the typical liberal tactic of debate, by focusing on another subject, in this case the Catholic Church. The issue here is simple and needs no lengthy diatribe. A small minority is attempting to control the rights and beliefs of the majority. This will happen because the Republicans reflect the silent majority of our Nation, just as happened in other countries in history.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:11 PM By stlouisix
The Lord has spoken very clearly, Talia, in talking about the consequences of grave sin more than any other NT figure. He also spoke very clearly as Second Person of the Blessed Trinity of the One True Triune God existing eternally when He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, a destruction that is referenced in NT Jude. Nothing more needs to be said. Jesus Christ will come as Just Judge Whose Mercy is meaningless without His Justice for all. And Scripture tells us that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God." We better remember that. Despite all the failing of the Catholic Church in her human elements who are betraying her, her invariant moral teaching since she was founded upon Peter the Rock remains indisputable, in particular, the consequences for ignoring same, i.e., disobedience to the Natural Law of God. The daily news is proof positive of that. THE PRIMARY message of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is to "Go and sin no more," not go out of your way to welcome the occasions of sin, but rather to avoid them, which has always been Catholic teaching. And allowing the pro-sodomite crowd carte blanche to pollute the minds of our children in our schools is welcoming the occasions of sin BIG TIME in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus Christ Who is Perfect Truth. People of faith and right reason have good cause to be outraged by what is continually happening in CA at the state level. They don't have to stand for this insanity in the realization that it is the common good that is the state's priority. The common good cannot be served by telling lies to our school children. Enough is enough! It's sad that the Kuehl's of the world want to get away with moral murder for the sake of the own souls. It's sadder for society to sit back and let them do it with impunity, given the scope of effect of their heinous demands which are direct from the bowels of hell! God didn't effectively nuke Sodom and Gomorrah for nothing!
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 7:47 PM By stlouisix
Donna, Jesus' comment about Judas says it all. 24 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born.[Matthew 26]. Jesus told it like it was in regard to Judas final end, and He did the same in regard to the consequences of serious sin which any "raised Catholic" ought to be aware of. This story, per what is happening worldwide, was reported accurately. See the following for what happens when a radical fringe is left unchallenged in the police state that the UK is becoming. http://www.afa.net/play/index.html
Maryland Schools to Teach that Sexual Deviance is Normal this Fall http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07081607.html
Ontario Catholic School Board Approves Referrals to Gay-Activist Therapist, Censors Right to Life Material http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07080907.html
The Mother of the Homosexual Movement - Evelyn Hooker PhD http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jul/07071603.html
Dutch Embassies Now Outposts for Spreading Homosexual Agenda http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/aug/07080209.html
Homosexual Activist Sends Three More Bullets and 2nd Death Threat for Pro-Marriage Bishop
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07061203.html
APA President Supports Therapy Treating Unwanted Homosexual Tendencies http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/aug/06082905.html
Homosexual Activists Consider Targeting Private Christian Schools for "Homophobia" http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/feb/07022706.html
MUST SEE VIDEO - Homosexual Propaganda Fed to Elementary School Children http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/apr/07042407.html
California Homosexual Organization Admits HIV/AIDS is "Gay Disease" http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/oct/06100404.html
Gov't Agrees to Mandatory Homosexual Curriculum with No Opt-Out for Students or Parents http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/jun/06060101.html
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:09 PM By Donna #1
In response to Donna #2, as the article says, "lawsuit is the enforcement mechanism". You know, it's sort of like when you vote "Yes", it actually means "No". SB 777 sounds like another way to fatten the wallets of lawyers at the expense of the taxpayer, the traditional family, and the future of our nation.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:34 PM By Talia
And FDB is mindlessly marching forward as our church sinks into oblivion. The SILENT MAJORITY, especially those in the Roman Catholic Church, should stop worshipping the false divinity of money and power (be it the Clergy of the Catholic Church or politicians) and wake up to the reality of the world around us. OH, and FDB, save the rhetoric for your next meeting of consertative clowns.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:49 PM By John L. Sillasen
Donna, that's the point ... SB777 prohibits school employees from calling a spade a spade; ie, from defining homosexuality as a sin. If you want the homosexuals to rule, then go ahead and vote yea for SB777. If you want peace on earth, then do not credit politicians, especially gay activist politicians, with virtue, truth, honesty, good will, charity, kindness or even long suffering ... they are anathema to God. That's why they are called sodomites, after the city of homosexuals which God destroyed. The story comes down from the Bible, which informs us of the will of God, and of human nature (which has not evolved). Ask yourself why the good God would permit the Bible to be brought through the ages for us to read if it were not good. Read it. You say you were brought up Catholic: so what does that mean? If you want to claim what you say is Catholic, then prove that you are Catholic. It astounds me that so many cradle Catholics have such vague knowledge of the Bible, or of the Magisterium as a whole. The fact is that homosexuality is evil, and needs to be stopped. Tolerance is not a commandment, is not a rule for Catholics ... on the contrary, charity/love/ agape ... this is the rule. To love a gay activist requires informing the person that they are in deep sin and need to stop immediately, for the sake of their eternal destiny. The culpability issue figures in to their plight, and as St Paul says, it is sin that makes a scar on the conscious: It is the duty of the Catholic to convey the need to repent to the homosexual before the scarring becomes totally preventive to that soul's ability to respond to the Holy Spirit. If you indulge that soul, you participate in the eternal doom of that soul. And that participation is not in any way Catholic.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:00 PM By John L. Sillasen
Talia posted: "There is too much filth and slime in the Roman Catholic Church that needs a good cleaning first. Why not start in the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops?" Talia, even as we post, this is being done. I learned a lesson in my journey of conversion to Christ, which is that miracles and healing do not normally happen the way you see it on TV, eg the televangelists. Yeah, maybe in a few cases, but mostly from the decades I've experienced, the conversion from sinful ways to holy ways is not brief. It takes a while ... to clean house in the hierarchy is not obviously happening overnight, but it is hopefully happening. Study Church history a bit to see some of the "house cleanings" that really went down; it will blow your mind. The problem associated with victories, however, is that sometimes in history the Church has blundered big time ... to wit, the Orthodox split, and the Anglican juncture; but these struggles are not over yet.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:00 PM By Jose
I hope that the voices that are mocking and attacking the Catholic Church on this California Catholic Daily website realize that the mainstream press does not give similar coverage and presence to the voices of traditional Catholics and Christians on these types of issues. Actually the tagging of the Catholic Church and its Priests has become an acceptable art form and the norm in the mainstream press of America, especially on certain late night television shows from California where the word Priest has become the punch line to many jokes over the past few years. New writers and comedians are in order because the punch lines are getting very stale. If Bill SB 777 passes it would lead to the state wide tagging of anyone who wants to express opposition to this agenda.
|
Posted Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:06 PM By Annika
For those who doubt the homosexualization of our children in our schools, look at page 2A-19 in the PDF file at http://www.metrokc.gov/health/famplan/FLASH/grades9-10/G910-L2a.pdf This is a work of Beth Reis, gay activist, gay youth advocate and sex educator for the Seattle King Co. Health Department. This is from the 9-10th grade Abstinence portion of FLASH, the most used sex ed curriculum in King Co, WA and it is sponsored by county government. You will see a lesson that requires 9th graders to imagine they are male homosexuals trying to decide if they will have sex. Fictional Sam and Daniel are in a car--your 9th grader writes a script showing the characters ideas and desires. Is that not homosexualization!!!??? And it's supposed to be an abstinence lesson. HA! This curriculum is free online and is used nationwide.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 12:24 AM By Mike
The homosexual lobby never does anything to benefit society. Every step they take furthers their ultimate goal of legally seducing younger and younger playthings. One reason I took my kids out of public school was to keep the homosexualist/planned parenthood agenda away from them.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 6:44 AM By Peter
Annika - How could teaching understanding and tolerance through empathy cause homosexuality? Homosexualization? Nonsense.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 8:53 AM By WS
Ever notice thats its only humans that are inclined this way? You just dont see it in nature with the animals. Boy tigers with boy tigers? Girl lions with girl lions? Doesn't happen. Only "some" humans,never animals.Look and learn,people. Observe nature and learn how God's plan works there.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 9:22 AM By jane
Normalizing gay lifestyles must begin with children. It is the best and most effective way to create normalcy of the gay lifestyle.
This must be done to ensure that kids will be confused about family, sex and truth.
This law is nothing less than
Thought control promoting brain pollution.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 10:34 AM By Peter
WS: It is well documented that homosexuality DOES in fact occur in nature. In particular, penguins and goats have been studied.
Ignorance is bliss, huh?
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 11:13 AM By Christopher Zehnder
WS,
Peter is right, at least to the extent that same-sex genital activity occurs among beasts -- I've seen it in dogs. Of course, I've also seen dogs eat their dead young. If the former is a justification of human homosexuality, is the latter justification for cannibalism?
Beasts respond purely to sense perception. Humans don't. Is same-sex genital activity among beasts an example of a
"different orientation" (gay goats?) or a confusion on the level of sense? (I've also several dogs begin tearing at one another because one was injured; the scent of blood stirred them to a kind of frenzy) Further, would Peter contend that human sexuality is reducible to bestial sexuality?
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 11:18 AM By Susan
What good is all this talk when we cannot even rid ourselves of the child molesters and predatory homosexuals (priests and hierarchy, both in and out of the closet) within our own church. Read the 2003, Spring Edition of Roman Catholic Faithful and you will see what I mean. The smoke of satan is in the church and that article proves it.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 11:50 AM By stlouisix
For a complete refutation of Peter's claims along the lines of Christopher Zehnder's astute comments, see the following. The Animal Homosexuality Myth http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/g/l/glm7/m179.htm
The reasoning behind the animal homosexuality theory can be summed up as follows:
- Homosexual behavior is observable in animals.
- Animal behavior is determined by their instincts.
- Nature requires animals to follow their instincts.
- Therefore, homosexuality is in accordance with animal nature.
- Since man is also animal, homosexuality must also be in accordance with human nature.
This line of reasoning is unsustainable. If seemingly "homosexual" acts among animals are in accordance with animal nature, then parental killing of offspring and intra-species devouring are also in accordance with animal nature. Bringing man into the equation complicates things further. Are we to conclude that filicide and cannibalism are according to human nature?
In opposition to this line of reasoning, this article sustains that:
1. There is no "homosexual instinct" in animals,
2. It is poor science to "read" human motivations and sentiments into animal behavior, and
3. Irrational animal behavior is not a yardstick to determine what is morally acceptable behavior for rational man.
THERE IS NO "HOMOSEXUAL INSTINCT" IN ANIMALS
Anyone engaged in the most elementary animal observation is forced to conclude that animal "homosexuality," "filicide" and "cannibalism" are exceptions to normal animal behavior. Consequently, they cannot be called animal instincts. These observable exceptions to normal animal behavior result from factors beyond their instincts.
See the link for the refutation of the ridiculous claim that because homosexuality in animals occurs naturally, it also does in humans, which is a bald-faced lie!
"Homosexual animals do not exist." How could they if the species is to survive, i.e., if homosexuality was the norm?
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 12:32 PM By WS
I dunno,but if peter is calling me ignorant because of an observation I made,I have a few words for him that I cant print.If it occurs in animals,it cant occur much,its much more in people. Thats what I meant. If that causes peter to hurl an insult at me,all I can say is that he's mighty brave behind a keyboard.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 12:52 PM By Peter
Of course not. Human sexuality is obviously more refined and diverse. That is what makes it possible for a man to love another man and a woman to love another woman in a way emotionally and spiritually beyond the primordial limitations of pure instinct and reproductive intent.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 1:31 PM By Peter
If one is biologically predisposed to that type of relationship, that is.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 1:43 PM By Annika
Peter--The lesson is not a lesson in empathy; it is a lesson on how to communicate ones desires sexually in an intimate scene. It is supposed to be a lesson on abstinence, but the student is not being asked to demonstrate refusal skills, only the communication between two males deciding whether or not to have sex. Have you read the lesson? The lesson assumes you as a student would have already an understanding (empathy??) of the issues in homosexual sex. If you make me have to write for a school assignment a scene for a story of two women having lesbian sex, is that not homosexualization and also porn?? That is what is being done here to fourteen year olds in public schools. Pleaaze, Peter. Where is empathy to the so called plight of homosexuals inherent in the lesson? Why are minors being homosexualized in our schools?
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 3:05 PM By WS
How much longer will God be mocked? How can anyone rationalize away what Jesus said about this sin,is it not one of the sins that cries to heaven for vengance?
Of course,the San Francisco board of supervisiors,or the 9th circut court of appeals,you would expect them to uphold what is taught in the schools today. But Catholics can never accept this,under pain of sin.Thats one reason home-schooling is gaining in use.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 4:16 PM By Donna
All one needs to do is refer to the Natural Law. What do men do when they have homosexual relations? Do sperm really belong in the intestinal tract? All things sexual have been created by our loving God for procreation (and loving union obviously). Error in our understanding leads to sin, and sin leads to death and the consequences are both seen and unseen. We cannot change the Natural Law no matter how much we'd like to.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 4:20 PM By stlouisix
One cannot be biologically predisposed to homosexual relationships because that would turn God into a liar, creating people with a one-way ticket to hell. We're all created heterosexual with a small group experiencing inclinations to homosexuality. The success of the reparative therapists of NARTH speak to that truth, as well as the testimony from COURAGE, EXODUS, and PFOX. We're talking about temptations resulting from the concuspicence due to Original Sin, i.e., the Fall. It goes without saying that a man can love another man and a woman can love another woman, but we're talking about a love that has nothing to do with homosexuality which is a NOT love but rather unnatural lust, as accurately described by Saint Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica. The kindest thing that Aquinas had to say about homosexuality was that it is the "unnatural vice." It is not showing love putting souls at risk of eternal perdition! The Church recognizes that having a sexual-genital attraction to another person of the same sex can never lead to a morally good act between the two individuals, but rather will always lead to an immoral act as the unitive and procreative aspects of sexuality are violated, which is why it's called an objective disorder.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 7:38 PM By John L. Sillasen
" ...seemingly "homosexual" acts among animals ": Thankyou, stlouisix!!! I am an observer of animals and humans. I have heard the myth; I have seen the animals, cows, dogs, goats, others. I have seen the actions which the sodomites purport to be homosexual acts. They are not. Eg #1: Cows will "hump" a cow which is pregnant; this is one way the farmer knows the particular cow is with calf at a very early stage. (Note, the word "cow" refers to the female of the species.) Eg#2: Male goats will climb all over each other while they present the environment with "seed"; this happens if they are quartered too closely to the does ... this action is not a sight action, but an odor action. The bucks vie to get at the females, if one is in season. Eg#3: Dogs -- I have presently three Labrador Retrievers. The female has put forth three litters. I have tended these from the start. I have watched closely the interactions of all these dogs for a long time. I have studied their nature. I have learned from people who have much more experience than I. My female may hump my male. The male may hump the female. A puppy may hump a dog or a bitch ... There is a mega difference in the humping when the female is in season ... whole nuther ballgame. The off-season humping is a dominance issue, and aggressive issue. One dog will hump the other after some favored treatment by me, or else the other way around: they want from their master, and they do these humping things to create and maintain the pecking order. The dogs (males) who do this, do not wander around holding hands; they establish which is dominant, and then continue with their naps, feedings, playing, etc. The female is like this also, but in a very very characteristic female manner: The males dogs and the female dogs (at least after a litter or two) reflect the same emotional universe and all that goes with family as humans do. Refinement is not the difference between animals and humans.
|
Posted Friday, August 17, 2007 8:11 PM By John L. Sillasen
Peter includes ideas such as: Human sexuality is obviously more refined and diverse, and primordial limitations of pure instinct and reproductive intent. A. Does this mean anything? B. What might it mean? C. What fact are these claims based on? D. Does the homosexual proceed from these ideas, or do these ideas proceed from the homosexual? E. What is Peter willing to do to defend these ideas?, or is this a fair question? F. What is Peter willing to do if he sees that these ideas are not factual? G. What would Peter prefer to believe, if he were free to believe anything he wanted to believe?
|
Posted Sunday, August 19, 2007 12:18 PM By Mike
Peter wants to compare his desired sex life to animals in an effort to normalize his perversion. Does Peter eat like an animal, off the ground or out of a trough? Does Peter dress like an animal and bathe like an animal? I think Peter is a "cafeteria animal", picking and choosing only those animal behaviors that suit him.
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 7:30 AM By Peter
"Daniel and Sam are dating, and while Sam has chosen not to have sex for now in his life, Daniel does not choose abstinence for himself at this time and has had other partners in the past. Daniel would like Sam to have sex with him, but Sam just doesn’t feel the same and is a little worried about sexually transmitted infections (STIs). They have just gone out to a movie and are on their way home in the car, trying to talk about it.
DANIEL: Sam, I like you a lot, I would like to have sex with you, but I know you’re worried about things like getting an infection...and all that other stuff. I am pretty sure I don’t have anything...
SAM: Daniel,..."
Please, all you creatures if divine insight, tell me how enforcing the principles of abstinence (i.e. Sam explaining to Daniel why he has chosen to be abstinent at this point in his life) in this example is materially different form the others . . . there is no inference except in your perverted minds that the discussion would even touch on specific sexual acts that the two might engage in. The lesson is that Daniel and Sam can get to know each other better first in ways that don't involve their common sexuality at all.
And P.S. Stop relying on APA, NARTH, COURAGE, EXODUS, and PFOX as sources of reliable information. All are proponents of crap science; that is self-evident and requires no substantiation.
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 7:51 AM By Peter
John L. Sillasen: What are you talking about? You make less sense than you claim I do . . . English your second language?
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 10:34 AM By Peter
And incidentally, regardless of what any of you feel the theological implications might be, if you have even really taken the time the get to know a “homosexual” as a thinking, feeling human being, beyond the arbitrary “homosexual” label, you would know without a doubt that indeed one can be biologically predisposed to homosexual relationships. stlouisix stated that "it goes without saying that a man can love another man and a woman can love another woman, but we're talking about a love that has nothing to do with homosexuality which is a NOT love but rather unnatural lust”. But he/she is wrong on that point; love between any two people – hetero or homo – develops over time not because of lust but in spite of it. Lust may bring two people together, but in the end, love is all that is left in a relationship as a couple ages together and finds other things – interests, home, family, children – to hold them together. To say that the nature of homosexuality precludes the ability to experience love in this way is to betray a gross misunderstanding of human emotion.
Call me an animal if you like, but I too am created in God’s image. It is you who would call Him a liar.
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 12:12 PM By stlouisix
What's self-evident is that you basically don't know what you're talking about Peter, as evinced by your comments re NARTH, etc, to include the APA, where there are members coming to their senses to include past presidents re the lie that homosexuality is normal. Your statement about "crap science" only goes to show that you have nothing to fall back on vs. the evidence from the sources presented. In short, there is well documented evidence to the contrary of everything that you say, given that we're talking about an attack on both faith AND reason. The fact that Daniel and Sam are "dating" points to their needing immediate help, not confirmation that what they're doing is OK, i.e., the entire premise of your straw man is immediately flawed. This is a Catholic site that is going to promote Catholic moral teaching. And if you have difficulty with that, that's your problem, not those who telling the Catholic truth here for your sake, and those being lied to by the militant homosexual lobby who is selfish to the point of discouraging proving successful reparative therapy to those who want to leave, as opposed to live, homosexual lifestyles. There is not the slightest hint of a biological predisposition to homosexuality in a gene sense by admission of pro-homosexual researchers themselves. It is not God Who is the liar, Peter, but the father-of-lies who has conned those inclined to homosexual acts that what they're doing is OK, when Jesus, especially existing eternally as the Second Person of the One Triune God, says differently, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah in regard to a sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance. There is more than natural consequences at stake here, but rather eternity, which this site should be concerned with. The "nature" of homosexuality is "unnatural," Peter. At least get that straight! Normal men who enjoy each others company don't consider that they're "dating," which is a sick description.
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 1:10 PM By Peter
You're right, stlouisix. This is a Catholic site, which like most Catholics, is so caught up in justifying moral teachings the voice of experience when it points to the contrary goes unheard. You claim the nature of homosexuality is unnatural based on what you have been taught to believe. I know that it is natural based on what I have experienced; and for that I know I am unwelcome.
But then again, I won't even pretend to be Catholic, or even Christian at that, even though I have chosen to abstain from all sexual activity for the last 15 years (since I was 25). Didn’t even both to ask, did you - your head is so full of stereotypes and false science.
Still, I do believe that the Bible has inherent value, for I believe it reveals the true nature of a person’s soul. Those who are hateful and intolerant see hate and intolerance justified in those pages; those who are loving and kind see love and kindness.
Blinded by your own self-righteousness, you conveniently pat each other reassuringly on the back and cater to bogus science because it affirms what the Bible has shown to you - the hate in your hearts and minds - so you feel justified and fulfilled.
To hell with the rest of humanity; you alone have defined God’s natural law, and are of God’s natural law, and are therefore the chosen ones. Your path to salvation is lined with the souls of those that you have judged and condemned in the name of God, yet not by God, who have granted you passage by virtue of their sins, which by comparison your sins surely pale. In my experience, and based on this web-site, that is the true nature of Catholicism and Christianity. But surely, I generalize.
So by all means, enjoy basking in the temporary radiance of your vanity.
But don’t complain when those stones are thrown back at you from the heavens tenfold, and you are again fed to the lions . . . this you bring upon yourselves.
While I will check this web-site periodically to keep tabs on the evil you do, I leave you all to your destiny . . .
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 2:14 PM By John L. Sillasen
Yes, Peter, English is actually my third language. My first is Verbum Dei, my second is nature, and so forth. You are now beginning to understand. Next step, Peter, is to discount your own credibility, and look to the absolute source of truth ... for this you have to go through faith. Science is capable of taking you there, but in your case, since you hold so many scientific theories, I'd cut through the mustard and head for the realm of faith. Prayer works, but always respect the answer you get, even if you don't like it.
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 2:35 PM By John L. Sillasen
Peter, if all we knew about homosexuals came from reading, then we likely wouldn't be up in arms about it. On the contrary, I have met innumerable homosexuals. I had to use public transportation when commuting to college several decades ago in the Westwood, CA area. Man, what a gauntlet. Then just walking through stores in that hotbed of an area ... these sodomists just are terrible to have to be in the midst of ... very aggressive, very immune to all manner of signs, and even verbal requests to stop their molesting ways ... what really surprised me is that they as a rule craved threatening gestures and would take such as invitations. This is not what I read, but what I had to put up with. Then a decade prior to that, I found almost an entire university department full of sodomites ... speak about grading persecution! One time I got to know a self-proclaimed "nationally recognized queer", through a college roommate (these were phd candidates, not kids anymore). Homosexuals are not what they claim to be, but deceive. How can they help it without denouncing their perversion? Deception is the outcome of "unnatural" ... like, duh. Peter, the only way you can win your argument is to give up the sodomy, and return to nature, and then hopefully to God. Know also, Peter, that sin engenders consequences. These are often called the temporal consequences of sin. You are guaranteed, through Catholic confession, to have your guilt removed, but likely you would have to carry much of the damage with you the rest of your life. Peter, I have gone through the conversion process, although not for the same thing as you promote. The only unforgiveable sin is the refusal of the soul to humble itself before God (in case I'm not theologically completely accurate here, I am referring to the sin against the Holy Ghost, and this is my interpretation of it).
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 3:24 PM By John L. Sillasen
Peter, my reason, if not that of others here, for not asking you if you practice sodomy or not, is not the primary issue at stake. Faith and truth are first, then the struggle to live by faith and truth.
Also, on the topic of animals: Animals can not sin against God ... as they do not have free choice, as humans do. God has set humans apart from animals and the rest of creation including angels. For a man made in the image of God to immitate an animal as a way of life is not natural.
If you really had no belief in God or eternal life, or that God has not revealed his will to man, then you wouldn't be so bent out of shape over Catholic doctrine. And, if you didn't believe sodomy to be gravely wrong, then you would be practicing it. Since you proclaim that you are attracted sexually to other men, and are upset, this says that you are aware of problems. You are really arguing friendship and perhaps not getting this important issue addressed. I am single, have no family ... uh, I have a pack of dogs, and we're tight ... know other men in this situation, and can say that there is a great deal to life other than sex. I recommend you look further into male bonding ... but not with homosexually oriented men. Peter, this will be difficult for you, but if you keep at it, you will become aware of something beyond what you are hashing out in this thread. And keep reading the Bible ... The one thing you have not come to grips with in this thread, unless I missed it, is prayer. PRAY!!!
|
Posted Monday, August 20, 2007 6:22 PM By stlouisix
The justification of Catholic moral teachings, Peter, comes from observing the consequences of ignoring same in the daily news, and in particular, the HIV/AIDS Surveillance Reports from their inception. There are consequences for violating the Natural Law of God. I don't have any "claims" Peter. I'm talking about obedience to the God's Law given to man unconditionally out of concern for his eternal end. There is no false science in regard to reason reinforcing the Faith which initially enables it, Peter. You don't want to hear the Truth Who is a Someone, not a something. That's a pity. Hopefully and prayerfully, one day, you will reconsider before defending the indefensible, which was the topic of this thread. Your comments are irrational, Peter, and indicative of someone who has no answers to the tough questions posed to you. The God Who gave us Faith also gave us reason, which cannot contradict each other. Your last tirade was full of lies as anyone capable of rational thought reading this thread can see. It is not the opinion of the Catholic posters here that is being presented but Church Teaching on faith and morals. You should check this website, Peter. It's the only place that you're probably going to see Catholic truth proclaimed because the world that you prefer to live in mocks it as a matter of course. Again, it is not the problem of Catholic posters on this site when those who promote Mortal Sin are upset with being told the Truth Who is Christ for salvation's sake. Your animal homosexual myth was destroyed, as was every other arg you made. There is a reason for this because Catholic Witness is being Given to Perfect Truth, per John's Gospel. We're all sinners, Peter. But some of us are trying to overcome same as best we can with the help of God. It is not judgmental to answer the lies of the devil in the public square. Catholics are called to do do. And those who persist in telling those lies should not be surprised at the response.
|
Posted Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:48 PM By love you all !
"THE GREATEST THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY IS IMMORALITY."
-Father John Corapi
|
Posted Saturday, August 25, 2007 9:33 AM By Jan Voeltzke
The NEA Lists Its Goals And Democrats Agree - CWN
Phyllis Schlaffley is an attorney and has been the greatest source of exposing deceitful hidden NEA activities for 35+ years and has been a great source of my research to support articles I've written. Two more on the agenda to be published soon. She is an authority on the NEA plus on the North American Union and Global Warming fiction. This woman is a female warrior-ess that is inexhaustible and I thank God for her. She should be copied by many of our Pastors and men in the churches--sadly we are so very wanting in this area. God is waiting for them to start acting on behalf of all children's souls--He is patiently waiting--but His anger for our lack of commitment can last only so long. "If My people who are called by My Name...." whatever happens will indeed be our fault due to our apathy. We can see where it has taken us thus far. How do we like this immoral world we are living in? How do we like Socialism/Communism? See the reader comments re Schlaffley's article and how justifiably angry they are--we really do need to get going and grouping together and withholding school taxes--running for school board elections--especially the Christians who supposedly have the ears and eyes to hear and see with. Humanists don't have the Holy Spirit as a source for truth--we do--so as scripture says, we have no excuse. They won't be held accountable--we will be. We have to inform the masses--not just Christian talk amongst ourselves. Yes, we will suffer persecution, rejection and avoidance, but so did Jesus, and He said we would too, IF we are following after Him--obeying scripture in ALL areas, not just the easy ones, which is what we are all supposed to be doing. Especially now--to save our children's souls--Speak,Write,Act however you can. Sorry for this but this is so urgent-- much love to all!
from.........
Jan Novak-Voeltzke
|
Posted Saturday, September 01, 2007 11:22 AM By Johnny
Both Old and New Testaments clearly teach that all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is sin in God's sight. This means whether the sex is heterosexual or homosexual, it is clearly denounced as sin. As an example, when the woman taken in adultery was brought before Jesus, He told her to go and sin no more. The issue boils down to this - Do you want to obey God - or do you want to defy Him? Don't let God's patience with man deceive you. The Bible says it is appointed unto men once to die and after this the judgment.
|
Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:49 AM By cindy
schwarzenegger signs this bill into law and 7 days later, the fires of california start. seems like god is speaking.
|
© California Catholic Daily 2007. All Rights Reserved.
|