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Published: February 18, 2010
California’s ‘gay-friendly’ parishes
Ministry to homosexuals censured by USCCB lists state’s ‘gay-friendly’ Catholic parishes, colleges
(IMPORTANT EDITOR'S ADVISORY: If New Waves Ministry has incorrectly listed your parish as 'gay-friendly,' please let us know by email and we will add an editor's note next to the listed church. You can do this by sending an email to: newsdesk@calcatholic.com.)
New Ways Ministry, a national “gay-positive” group that was recently rebuked by Cardinal Francis George, president of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, provides a list on its website of ‘gay-friendly’ universities and parishes across the U.S., including California. The list includes eight colleges and more than 45 parishes or other groups associated with the Church in the state, including one diocesan cathedral.
 On Feb. 12, Cardinal George, the Archbishop of Chicago, issued a statement that said, in part, “No one should be misled by the claim that New Ways Ministry provides an authentic interpretation of Catholic teaching and an authentic Catholic pastoral practice. Their claim to be Catholic only confuses the faithful regarding the authentic teaching and ministry of the Church with respect to persons with a homosexual inclination. Accordingly, I wish to make it clear that, like other groups that claim to be Catholic but deny central aspects of Church teaching, New Ways Ministry has no approval or recognition from the Catholic Church and that they cannot speak on behalf of the Catholic faithful in the United States.” (To see the full statement, published by California Catholic Daily on Feb. 16, Click Here.)
Below is a list of Catholic parishes and colleges in California identified on the New Ways Ministry website as ‘gay friendly.’
Colleges and universities
New Ways Ministry defines ‘gay-friendly as “those Catholic colleges that have some type of lesbian/gay student group, support group, ally group, etc.”
Belmont: Notre Dame de Namur University
Goleta: St. Mark’s University (Editor’s note: ‘St. Mark’s University’ is actually the name of a parish that serves the secular University of California at Santa Barbara.)
Los Angeles:
Loyola Marymount University
Mount Saint Mary’s College
Moraga: St. Mary’s College
Ranchos Palos Verde: Marymount College
San Diego: University of San Diego
San Francisco: University of San Francisco
Santa Clara: Santa Clara University
Parishes
New Ways Ministry says parishes can be identified as ‘gay friendly’ “because of a support program, spirituality group, mission statement, participation in gay community events, involvement with parents or simply the friendliness of pastoral staff.”
Berkeley: Holy Spirit Parish
Burney: St Francis of Assisi
Carlsbad: St. Patrick
Claremont: Our Lady of the Assumption
El Cajon: St. Luke Reader report: NO LONGER 'GAY FRIENDLY.'
Escondido: St. Timothy
Fremont: St. Joseph - Mission San Jose
Hawthorne: St. Joseph (Spanish)
Hayward: All Saints
La Puente: St. Martha
Lemon Grove: St. John of the Cross
Long Beach: St. Matthew
Los Angeles:
Blessed Sacrament
Christ the King
Mother of Good Counsel
St. Camillus Center-LA
USC Medical Center (Spanish)
St. Paul the Apostle
North Hollywood:
Blessed Sacrament
St. Jane Frances de Chantal
St. Patrick
Oakland: Our Lady of Lourdes
Oceanside: St. Thomas More
Orange:
Holy Family Cathedral (Editor’s note: Holy Family is the cathedral of the Diocese of Orange.)
Koinoia (Editor’s note: Koinoia, according to the diocesan newspaper Orange County Catholic is “a community of gay and lesbian people and family and friends of gay and lesbian people.” It meets at the St. Joseph Center, run by the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange.)
Pleasanton: Catholic Community of Pleasanton
Sacramento: St. Francis of Assisi
San Carlos: St. Charles
San Diego:
Ascension Reader report: NO LONGER 'GAY FRIENDLY.'
Christ the King Reader report: NO LONGER 'GAY FRIENDLY.'
San Rafael: St. Jude Shrine
San Francisco:
Most Holy Redeemer
Old St. Mary's Cathedral
St. Agnes
St. Dominic
San Jose:
St. Julie Billiart
St. Martin of Tours (Emmaus Community)
San Luis Obispo: Old Mission of San Luis Obispo
San Rafael: Church of San Rafael & Mission San Rafael Archangel
Santa Clara: GALA (Editor’s note: This is an apparent reference to the Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Alliance at Santa Clara University.)
Santa Cruz: Holy Cross
Santa Monica: St. Monica
Spring Valley: Santa Sophia
Walnut Creek: St. John Vianney
West Hollywood:
St. Ambrose
St. Victor
Whittier: St. Mary of the Assumption
Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:51 AM By Chuck Anziulewicz
Having grown up in the Catholic faith and having attended Mass at MANY different Catholic churches in New York, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia, and DC ... I know that Catholics at the grassroots level are often at odds with official Vatican edicts. And frankly if every Catholic church, priest, and parishioner who didn't toe the Vatican line were excommunicated, the Church would be REALLY HURTING. Most Catholics practice artificial birth control, and in my experience most Catholics are considerably more accepting and supportive of their Gay friends, family members and co-workers than most Protestants are. This article should come as no surprise to anyone.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:30 AM By 1abqdad
WOW, a list of heretic universities and Churches...and no one cares???
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:10 AM By BJ
This is ridiculous. I am a member of Santa Sophia Parish and have been for many years. The criteria used in this witch hunt is absolutely ridiculous.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:13 AM By BA
You mention this is a witch hunt. How as a gay person do you square your lifestyle and actions with the bible? Leviticus and Romans both take of these as an abomination. So, please ponder these writings . . . and repent. Lent is an excellent time to make a "TRUE" conversion of your heart and lifestyle.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:19 AM By Robert Lockwood
As the Pope said back in the 60's "The smoke of Satin has entered the church". We have seen the deterioration of the church by the works of Satin for decades and this list dosen't surprise me - it just needs to be made more public so that real Catholics (not cafeteria) know where to avoid.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:32 AM By David L.
Matt 9:10-13 -- "While he was at table in his house, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat with Jesus and his disciples. The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” He heard this and said, “Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.Go and learn the meaning of the words, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:33 AM By JLS
Chuck A, the reason there are Vatican edicts, as you call them, is because the grassroots Catholics are at odds with God. That is why Moses was given the Commandments and why Jesus made His advent ... Your brand of sedition, Chuck, is one of the worst types ... utter deception.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:02 AM By John Zakharia
To say some of these churches are gay-friendly is an understatement. Many of them are pro-traditional marriage unfriendly. St. Monica's in the city Santa Monica is not only gay friendly but very hostile to traditional marriage supporters. Again it is not only gay-friendly but saturated with pro gay supporters. I was banned from that church for promoting traditional marriage and pro life.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:05 AM By Eric
Chuck, the reason the Church is REALLY HURTING is because of all the Catholics that do not, as you put it, tow the Vatican line. Disobedience is a cancer and it must be removed from the body so each member of the body may become nourished and healthy again. Words of Our Lord,"Peter, I give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven; those things you hold bound and loosed on Earth will be bound and loosed in heaven." Obey or face the loss of eternal salvation!
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:08 AM By junev
Re Chuck A.....As I have said before, St. Ambrose doesn't give any benediction for ignorance of the Faith. I am assuming the Chuck is what is commonly referred to as a "cafeteria Catholic". It is not for the layman to pick and choose, our priest and mainly the Holy Father MUST be our guide. This is what the Novus Ordo has reaped for our beloved Church.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:30 AM By Robert J. Sutton
The New Ways Ministry surely flys the flag of Satin. Very sad.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:52 AM By Sawyer
to David L: the parishes in question and the people who seek them out for being "gay-friendly" do not consider homosexual acts to be sinful. And that is the problem. Those parishes are not acting like physicians, they are acting like Dr. Kervorkian to the soul. They are not showing mercy, they are enabling the perpetuation of lies. When the sinful is celebrated as grace, when falsehood is celebrated as truth, you have departed from Christ and his teachings.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 12:54 PM By psalm
There is no need for a "gay friendly" list. Gays are accepted at all authentic Catholic Churches. The Catechism states clearly that gays should be treated with respect. What the gays want is a blessing and acceptance of their lifestyle. So, its an accept my sinful lifestyle or else type of deal. I will call you "homophobes" or not gay friendly if you don't accept my sinful lifestyle. The whole thing is absurd.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 1:42 PM By JLS
David L., the problem with what you are quoting is not in the quote but in what you have failed to say, which is that the gay parishes are not Jesus sitting down with sinners, but sinners pretending to be Jesus and defiling Him.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:10 PM By Peggy
Where is St. Jude Shrine in San Rafael??
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:12 PM By David L.
To Sawyer: You make a series of claims that dismiss the parishes mentioned above and the work that they do. How do you know it to be true? Are these assumptions? How can you say for sure that the work they are doing isn't, in fact, the very ministry of Jesus, and that they aren't, in fact, very clear about the Church's teachings?
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 3:06 PM By Jimmy Mac
Good orthodox Catholics such as those who post here should go back to school. It is SATAN, not Satin. Satin is what ecclesiastics like to drape themselves in.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:03 PM By Joan
Sawyer-thank you so much for your comment you are absolutely right I wish I could have stated it the way you did. God Bless you
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 4:53 PM By Mason
The methodology may be questioned but the inclusion of St. Francis parish in Sacramento is appropriate.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 5:43 PM By Ron Parent (Canada)
A great Lenten Season makes use of fasting, almsgiving, and prayer. In essence, to pray is to talk (to God). Frequent prayer delivers intimacy with God. Silent, meditative, mental prayer will bring forth the voice of God. And surely, God will repeat the words he inspired St. Paul to utter in his Letter to the Romans. Let us not forget the norms as established in Leviticus as well. One can not reconcile the practice of homosexuality with being a Catholic in a state of grace.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:07 PM By Sawyer
To David L: if the parishes in question were "very clear about the Church's teachings" regarding the immorality of homosexual acts and the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman, if they were very clear that those teachings will not change, and if they were very clear that all Catholics have an obligation to form their consciences in accord with Church teaching and follow those well-formed consciences, those parishes would not be identified as "gay friendly" by New Ways Ministry. New Ways Ministry opposes Church teaching, seeks to obfuscate it and undermine it. When New Ways Ministry identifies parishes as being "gay friendly", it means that those parishes either openly or surreptitiously have the same attitude and goals of opposing and undermining Church teaching. If they didn't have the same attitude and goals, they wouldn't be called "gay friendly". The "gay friendly" parishes do not consider homosexual acts or unions to be sinful. That's precisely what "gay friendly" means. To be "gay friendly" in that sense is to be Christ's enemy. To be truly gay friendly is to call homosexuality what it is -- a disorder -- and to welcome homosexuals as people who struggle with sinful inclinations and with sin, as we all do. All parishes should be "sinner friendly" in the sense of welcoming sinners who desire to reconcile with the Father. But any parish that said, "Hey, your sin isn't really a sin! Join us and let's affirm and accept each other's choices, choices that the Big Bad Church says are sinful but we think aren't!" would be "sinner friendly" in the same false sense that "gay friendly" is used by New Ways Ministry.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:07 PM By JLS
David L., here is my answer to your question, and it comes from decades of experience. It is not untypical for gays to have no understanding of why they can be spotted so easily. Same with the "ministries" you refer to. It's obvious; if there were some redeeming quality in them, then that would be obvious and would be applauded. There is no applause because they do nothing to earn it. There is criticism because the gays are disrupting society and civilizational morals.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:09 PM By JLS
Jimmy Mac, maybe that was his point : )) But I wouldn't include all clergy since many are good men and some are holy.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 6:52 PM By Life Lady
David L: Jesus came to call sinners TO REPENTENCE, not to continue to sin. What a foolish person it is that only gives the half that they like and ignore the other half that makes the point which they do not like. Someone will always spot that, and call a person on their foolishness.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:14 PM By IowaMike
From Chuck Anziulewicz's post it is pretty clear that he has no clue about the Catholic faith. I suggest he go back to Vatican I and review Chapter 3, on Faith, paragraph 8. This sets forth what Catholics must believe to be Catholic. If Mr. Anziulewicz's maintains his position after reading this document he really isn't a Catholic he is a moral relativist.
Iowa Mike
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:32 PM By Mark from PA
Jesus calls those who hate other people to REPENTANCE also for their sins. Some people seem to find satisfaction in telling others that they have a "disorder" but don't consider their hosility to be a sin. If people don't want to go to a "gay friendly" parish where gay people are treated with kindness and respect then don't go there.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 7:37 PM By Georgia
Many are called but few are chosen.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:00 PM By Tom P
How about a list of parishes which are friendly to adulterers? Or wife beaters? And to be REALLY inclusive, how about a parish which welcomes child molesters? Thank God there are none. Chuck, do you see the distinction? We should welcome sinners who wish to repent. We should not welcome those who wish to mainstream their sin and foist it off on us as a non-sin.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:03 PM By Thomas Edward Miles
GAY FRIENDLY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN....DO THEY TAKE THE SIGN OF PEACE SINCERELY?!!!
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:11 PM By JLS
Homosexual people hate not only themselves, which is why the gay agenda trumpets the propaganda that other hate them. No, they hate themselves; and this is one example of why homosexuality is called a perversion.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:25 PM By BJ
BA: For the record, I am not gay. My wife and I were married at Santa Sophia Catholic Church over 32 years ago and are still very much in love and raised our three children in the Catholic faith. The Santa Sophia parish is friendly to all people, including the Chaldean Catholics who have met at the parish for over 25 years!
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 8:25 PM By RR
Mark from PA: Wrong! It's not hostility. It is condemnation for their mortally sinful ACTIVE sexuality. " If people don't want to go to a "gay friendly" parish where gay people are treated with kindness and respect then don't go there." Wrong again! If ACTIVE homosexuals want to continue in their sin then THEY should be the ones not going there, not the faithful Catholics adhereing to Catholic teaching.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 9:09 PM By Sawyer
to Mark from PA: correctly identifying a disorder as such is neither hateful nor hostile. Telling the truth, when done charitably, is never sinful. You seem to be stating that merely telling the truth that homosexuality is a disorder is inescapably hateful, hostile and sinful. Not so. Is it hateful, hostile or sinful to tell a kleptomaniac that he has a disorder and sins by stealing? No. Is it hateful, hostile or sinful to tell an adulterer that his lust is disordered and that he sins by cheating on his spouse? No. So why do you consider it hateful, hostile and sinful to tell homosexuals that their condition is disordered and that homosexual acts are sinful? The answer (that you probably won't admit) is that you don't really consider homosexuality to be a disorder and that you don't consider homosexual acts to be sinful. "Gay friendly" parishes might indeed treat homosexuals with kindness and respect, but they also lie to them by communicating to them the falsehood that a sexually deviant life is morally acceptable and accords with God's will. So the "kindness" and "respect" that "gay friendly" parishes show, is a superficial, incomplete, disordered sort of kindness and respect; it is not authentic, complete kindness and respect, which would glory in the truth.
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:06 PM By Ray
New Ways/Age Ministry is just another affront of mis-guided souls who just haven't permitted themselves to allow the Light of Truth to penetrate the dark fog of their consciousness and truely see the sin of same-sex attraction. "If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me......" Luke p 22-25 Sept. 8th 1998, I decided to take this to heart, literally, and began to live a celebate life, this was a great grace, second only to that of my salvation, this after living with a partner for 21 years. 12 years of unbelievable graces since. Yes, this vow of living a celebate life, dying to my self, indeed was/is a pure miracle of grace, nothing is impossible for God
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Posted Thursday, February 18, 2010 10:09 PM By Bev
FYI Old St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco is NOT the diocesan cathedral. The diocesan cathedral is known as The Cathedral of St. Mary of the Assumption.
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 12:50 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
There are many parishes that support "Courage" and they are not listed as "gay friendly" parishes by "New Ways Ministry"(which by the way has been labled "not Catholic" by the Magisterium), yet they give true Catholic counsel to persons inflicted with this temptation. Fr. Rich Perozich's parish is one of them.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 7:14 AM By Canisius
Sawyer dont waste your breath PA is a confirmed dissenter who believes he is right and the Church is wrong.
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 12:14 PM By RR
Ray: God Bless Your soul. You have truly picked up your cross and are carrying it. There is another poster on here named MarkF. I haven't seen any of his posts lately, but he accepted God's will just as you have. He lived the gay lifestyle for I think he said 30 years. He actually was probably a lot worse into the gay lie than you were. I hope he reads your post and responds because he is such a great man and he has surely been blessed and rewarded by God. I am so happy for you and I will pray for you. Take care and God Bless you!
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 12:28 PM By TotaTua
Being gay is not an impediment to being a faithful Catholic. Just as i as a single is called to live chastely, so is one who is gay. The Church has always said that we are to love the sinner not the sin. so including a ministry to GLBT does not make a church necessarily at odds with the Magisterium. Just saying that there are degrees of being "gay-friendly" which makes no more sense than saying a church is "hispanic-friendly".
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 12:49 PM By scott
Please keep in mind that it behooves New Ways Ministry and the homosexual culture to list as many parishes as they can as "gay friendly". All it takes is someone clicking on a link to put a particular parish on the list.
While certainly many parishes promote the agenda, please remember this list is more propaganda than fact. This effort of listing "gay friendly parishes" is very much like getting a gay character on as many TV shows as possible.
What they risk by doing this sort of thing is that any particular church listed might choose to come out with a very straightforward, clarifying statement on the Church's teaching on homosexuality and parish support of that teaching.
Clarification brings truth. When faced with the truth you must make a decision. Right now, there are many people who are able to reside in wishy-washy land because so many parish leaders aren't being clear about the Church's teachings.
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 2:12 PM By victoriag
The Religious Education Congress Convention (sponsored by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles) has a booth for Gay & Lesbian Ministry, as well as a booth for those who have had abortions and wish to be reconciled with the church. What does this tell you? If there are questionable things going on at various parishes, the Bishops are the ones who are responsible because they are the "Captains of the Ships".
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 5:55 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
The Religious Education Congress (sponsored by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (Lost Angels) is very pro-active gay friendly (does not teach the fullness of the Church's teachings on this subject) and has many pro-abortion speakers as well (Jim Wallis being just one of them). CRCOA, Inc. can supply anyone with a list of these miscreants. Just contact us. You can also purchase a copy the latest Wanderer, Remnant, or National Catholic Family News and read our expose full page ad on this Congress.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 8:38 PM By JLS
Tota Tua, as a single you have the obligation not simply to live chastely but to advance from glory to glory as St Paul teaches. The word "gay" implies more than a same sex attraction; "gay" implies a political movement bent on subverting public morals and attacking God.
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Posted Friday, February 19, 2010 10:54 PM By David L.
If people who are gay are not in Church, and they usually aren't, then you aren't speaking to them. Yelling at them is no more effective than yelling at you would be. Ugly language, such as occurs regularly on these pages about gays, is not actually aimed at reaching the minds and hearts of people who are gay. It is venting. It is an UGLY form of venting. And as for the judgment of parishes that are actually reaching out, who are actually in REAL conversation with people who are gay, as opposed to screaming at them from a Catholic (?) website where few if any gays would bother to show up a second time, I encourage you, in all seriousness to remain silent until you KNOW, someone is in error. The presumption of others' error is Pharisaical. The Lord Jesus Christ, to whom all Catholic knees must bend, was never made more angry than the judgmental attitude of the Pharisees.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 7:19 AM By Bob
Sometimes it is hard to tell if people are tryihg to preach the teaching of the Catholic Church or are just yelling because they hate peoplel who are homosextual. To be gay is not a sin, never has been, and never will be, any more than it is a sin to be heterosexual. To lead a non-celebate life as a single person is the sin. I would hope that every Catholic parish in the country would be welcoming to gays and anyone else. We are called to bring people to Christ. We can't do that if we don't welcome people into our communities of faith. It is not for us to judge if someone is worthy of Christ. He will do that. What we must do is preach the Gospel, with words if we have to, and welcome all to our faith. Now, that does not mean that we have to support organizations that teach and oppose the Catholic faith. But, there is a difference between organizations and individuals. Why do some get so worked up about gays, but don't get worked up about drunks, adulterers, people with drug habits, wife beaters, child abusers, etc. Surely, their sin is as grave as a non-celebate single person. But, we don't judge them. Perhaps we should stop judging people.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 7:25 AM By JLS
David L, the accurate and no fairy tale language you errantly describe has a purpose much different from that which you assign it. Its purpose serves to disillusion the gay agenda ideas that percolate into society. Have you ever heard of networking? Networking starts somewhere. It is like a tiny seed which grows, and which is tended to by gardners who supply the water and nutrients so that the plant grows to serve many. As for your cheap ploy to convince people to be silent, where have we heard that before? Cuba, former Soviet Union, China, Islamic lands, the Castro District, public schools? David L, can you name other places where the Church is forced into silence? And lest I forget, Canada. Also, Mexico has had periods where the Church has been silenced. David L, the gay community will not succeed where Leon Trotsky, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin and Nikita Kruchev failed after close to a century of hammering down the mouth of God.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:15 AM By JLS
To be gay, Bob, has always been a sin. God destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah and the surrounding towns because they were gay.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 12:59 PM By scott
Bob, it's not about being "accepting" as a parish. It's not about knowing we all fall short as sinners and welcoming gay people as fellow sinners trying to do right. When gay organizations use the words "gay-friendly" they do not mean "we know we are sinners and gay but we are celibate". What they mean by "gay friendly" is that a parish is "accepting of homosexuality and affirming the church is wrong on homosexuality and will be helpful in changing the church on this issue". Big big difference. THAT'S why people get upset.
You used the examples of adulterers, drunks, wife-beaters and child molesters. Imagine if a pro-child molesitng group or a wife-beating group had some people in the church who thought that church teaching on those issues was "outdated" and they had a site which listed various parishes as "Wife-beater friendly" or "Child molester friendly" or "Adulterer friendly". Remember first that this group doesn't think THEY are wrong, they think the CHURCH is wrong. It's not about looking for a place which accepts them as fellow sinners. They are looking for a place which will turn a blind eye to church teaching. It's really that simple.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 2:01 PM By Mark from PA
JLS, it is a safe bet that most of the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were heterosexual just like everyplace else. They were not "gay" towns. The people threatened to rape the visitors, this was a threat of violence. It had nothing to do with being "gay."
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:42 PM By JLS
Speaking of wife beating clubs, maybe the Church would attract lots of converts from Islam if it ok'd beating wives with stout sticks which is a custom in Islam.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 5:29 PM By J P
Wow! So many insightful posts. Churches are not museums for saints, but hospitals for sinners comes to mind. It is a shame that someone isn't following up on these parishes to find out if they really are supportive of the homosexual lifestyle or are hospitals for sinners, supportive of the homosexual. Huge difference.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 8:18 PM By Anne T.
PA, but those heterosexuals were practicing unnatural vices along with the homosexuals -- sodomy of any kind, incest, bisexual activity, and other things too evil to mention. The Book of Jude in the New Testament clearly tells what was going on.
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 9:21 PM By Ray
The pivotal point in my conversion after my confirmation to the Catholic faith was the teaching that my body was a Temple of God. that startling reality/Truth, though i had begun monthly confession,brought me to plead, no to beg God for the grace of celebacy for i could not offend Him, Who loved me unto death, death on a cross. Amen!
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Posted Saturday, February 20, 2010 10:21 PM By Sarah
Bob, it's not about being "accepting" as a parish. It's not about knowing we all fall short as sinners and welcoming gay people as fellow sinners trying
to do right. When gay organizations use the words "gay-friendly" they do not mean "we know we are sinners and gay but we are celibate". What they mean
by "gay friendly" is that a parish is "accepting of homosexuality and affirming the church is wrong on homosexuality and will be helpful in changing the
church on this issue". Big big difference. THAT'S why people get upset. You used the examples of adulterers, drunks, wife-beaters and child molesters.
Imagine if a pro-child molesitng group or a wife-beating group had some people in the church who thought that church teaching on those issues was "outdated"
and they had a site which listed various parishes as "Wife-beater friendly" or "Child molester friendly" or "Adulterer friendly". Remember first that this
group doesn't think THEY are wrong, they think the CHURCH is wrong. It's not about looking for a place which accepts them as fellow sinners. They are looking
for a place which will turn a blind eye to church teaching. It's really that simple.
Scott, you are right. I couldn't have said it any better myself.
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Posted Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:41 AM By Mark from PA
Perhaps some people are looking for a "gay friendly" church where they won't be compared to adulterers, drunks, wife-beaters, child molesters, etc. When a person is compared to one of the above groups, it sends them a strong message. They are pretty much being told that they are no good due to their sexual orientation.
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Posted Sunday, February 21, 2010 3:23 PM By JLS
Gayness, PA, is worse than any of the other sinful ways that you mention. St Paul, and I know you love that saint, tells us that homosexuality is the consequence of sin.
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Posted Sunday, February 21, 2010 5:08 PM By The Truth Hurts
When any friendly or unfriendly person shadows or stalks a Catholic website, so they can consistently misrepresent Catholic Church teaching and praise sinful lifestyles, its sends a strong message that they don't respect the Catholic Church or the people who adhere to the teachings of the Catholic Church. They are pretty much telling Catholics who do accept the Church's teachings that they are only interested in attaining a permission slip or license for themselves and others to commit deadly sin. No one should spend time helping others to be friendly to sin.Thats the devil's job and no one should want to be a co-worker. The wages may appear to be real friendly but the deadly price is not worth it!
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Posted Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:24 PM By Ray
Mark, Please re-read Gen. 19:4-6. It is quite apparent that the violence of rape by the young and old men of Sodom was a homosexual act toward the visitors who though angels were of the male gender. Always read with the spirit of truth/light, my brother in Christ
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Posted Sunday, February 21, 2010 6:35 PM By Sarah
19:4. But before they went to bed, the men of the city beset the house,
both young and old, all the people together.
19:5. And they called Lot, and said to him: Where are the men that came
in to thee at night? bring them out hither, that we may know them:
19:6. Lot went out to them, and shut the door after him, and said:
19:7. Do not so, I beseech you, my brethren, do not commit this evil.
19:8. I have two daughters who, as yet, have not known man; I will bring
them out to you, and abuse you them as it shall please you, so that you
do no evil to these men, because they are come in under the shadow of my
roof.
19:9. But they said: Get thee back thither. And again: Thou camest in,
said they, as a stranger, was it to be a judge? therefore we will afflict
thee more than them. And they pressed very violently upon Lot: and they
were even at the point of breaking open the doors.
19:10. And behold the men put out their hand, and drew in Lot unto them,
and shut the door.
19:11. And them, that were without, they struck with blindness from the
least to the greatest, so that they could not find the door.
19:12. And they said to Lot: Hast thou here any of thine? son in law, or
sons, or daughters, all that are thine bring them out of this city:
19:13. For we will destroy this place, because their cry is grown loud
before the Lord, who hath sent us to destroy them.
The key word here is men. It wasn't about violence, it was about the fact that they wanted to lie with men. Lott offered them his daughters, and they wanted nothing to do with them.
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Posted Sunday, February 21, 2010 9:41 PM By WR
It's not against the law to be a homosexual Catholic in America.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:08 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, your post of 3:23 PM gives me a better understanding of why some hate gay people so much.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 5:43 AM By RR
WR: It's against God's laws and those are the laws we are NEVER to break.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 7:45 AM By JLS
PA, you need to gain some respect for St Paul, and take note of what he says.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 8:24 AM By tedn
19:30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains... He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 19:31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us... 19:32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father." 19:33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him... 19:34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 19:35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him... 19:36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 19:37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 19:38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today. ////// God didn't seem to have a problem with this. Otherwise, would not God have smitten Lot and his daughters? Thus, one must conclude that it is OK for a man to impregnate his daughters.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 9:43 AM By JLS
tedn, read further where divine reprimand is meted out. But as I have continued to explain ... sodomy is the consequence of sin, and deserves the most extreme punishment. The human race began with babies being churned out by closely related parents. This was ordained by God; in the course of human events, God has upgraded the plan. Mosaic Law came into being in history; prior to that brother - sister marriage was not a sin. Prior to the first temptation, nakedness was not a sin. You have to stop making up your own cornball laws, tedn, and abide with God's laws.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 10:00 AM By Anne T.
Tedn, no it was not okay. The children of Israel fought continually with the Moabites and the Ammonites. The daughters sin brought it owns punishment.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 10:10 AM By Abeca Christian
WR homosexuality has nothing to do with laws and regulations, period! It has a lot to do with morality and how it is affecting our society today. There should be laws that can help those individuals with such conditions, but we should not impose their conditions on children and on people. We should not buy in to their need to be accepted by allowing them to adopt, marry etc etc. Their mental condition is like a disease, it has spread out and has even blinded spiritually those who are not homosexuals. We can not give rights to the mentally disturbed no matter what the reason is, what they need is the right to real human dignity to get spiritual healing, healing of mind and soul, they need to be loved and taught from right and wrong. We may not always get to the root of the problem but we need to help them reach healing one way or another. It is very complex but once we extend the hand to real help and healing, we can stop this problem, we can bring back sensitivity to immortal sin and protect the children who may be influenced by this unhealthy bad lifestyles!
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 10:13 AM By Anne T.
Also, because of the incestuous relationship, the Ammonites and the Moabites worhipped false gods. One was Chemosh who required child sacrifice. If the the Bible teaches anything, it teaches the consequences of sinful behavior on everyone involved, both the guilty and the innocent.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 10:23 AM By Anne T.
Futhermore, Our Lady said at Fatima and many other places that one of the punishments for sin is war. How right she was!
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 3:05 PM By Mark from PA
Ray, I went to Catholic school and have read that story many times. I have also discussed this story with a priest. The men of Sodom wanted to "sodomize" the visitors but this does not mean that they were homosexual. It was a means of showing dominance over the visitors. There are homosexuals that do not engage in sodomy. There are also heterosexuals that do engage in sodomy. Sexual orientation and sexual acts are two different things.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:00 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Anne T., we are seeing a form of war against Her Son's ways on this very site!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:09 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mark from PA,
We know that there are all kinds of priests who are wolves in sheeps clothing, and they give all kinds of advice to people like you who are seeking acceptance of their sinful ways, and there are all kinds of "Catholic" schools.
If the Catholic schools you went to formed your too apparent rejection of Catholic teachings, they were not Catholic!.
I am still praying for your conversion to true Catholicism.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:10 PM By Abeca Christian
Kenneth M. Fisher I agree
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:18 PM By JLS
PA, if only a few men were homosexual sodomites, then why did God incinerate not only them but their entire city, the city of Gomorrah and all the towns, hamlets and villages of the Plain? Here once again you are calling God an unjust God.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:19 PM By Anne T.
Amen! Kenneth Fisher.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:20 PM By JLS
Anne T., you have indeed succeeded in expressing the concept that I've struggle to express clearly for years. It especially is summed up in your post of 10:13 "If the the Bible teaches anything, it teaches the consequences of sinful behavior on everyone involved, both the guilty and the innocent."
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 4:21 PM By Dave N.
I only see five here from the Diocese of Oakland, so this list is pretty incomplete. I think it would be easier to list the ones that are NOT gay-friendly.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 5:28 PM By The Truth Hurts
What does it mean when an invited visitor turns into a dominant homosexual activist, who posts hundreds of inhospitable misrepresentation's of the teachings of the Catholic Catholic Church on a Catholic website?
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 5:44 PM By Anne T.
PA, now you "change your tune". You now differentiate between those who have the orientation and those who practice. Before you used the term "gay" for both. Most of us have been talking all along about those who pratice homosexual acts, not those who are tempted. Also, we all know that sodomy is only one of the types of immoral behavior practiced by active homosexuals, but most of us do not want to get into the icky details of that kind of behavior, so we say sodomy to include all of the acts. You are not posting to people who were "born yesterday". It is all immoral. Telling Aaron to bring his ex-lover over from Spain and having him live in his house is encouraging him to put himself in an occasion of sin. No one who wants to live a pure life, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual, brings their ex-lover into their home. That would show that they are not truthful about wanting to be chaste. Now you are trying to confuse the issue and convince Ray that you did not say such things before, but you did.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 6:29 PM By Mark from PA
Well, Mr. Fisher, I have known a couple of wolves in sheeps clothing. I knew a sexual predator whose nickname for himself was "the perfect one." I had enough of this guy's haughty attitude which is one reason why I have little patience with such attitudes. You don't need to pray for me to become a true Catholic because I already am. However I don't believe that homosexuals are disordered, defective and inferior beings. God bless you too.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 7:24 PM By JLS
The Truth Hurts, what it means is business as usual for the Church in Her great mission.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 7:39 PM By gravey
Dave N., I agree with you and thanks for getting the comments back on subject. The Oakland Diocese is a mess. Unfortunately this blog tends to get off course by hopeless homosexualists.
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Posted Monday, February 22, 2010 8:45 PM By JLS
PA, since you mention wolves, have you ever met a real wolf? I once met some, one of which stood over seven feet tall when putting his front paws on his master's shoulders and weighed 285 pounds. I placed my arm and fist next to his foreleg and paw for size comparison, and I was outclassed, which is no easy thing to do. I was offered one of his cubs, but when I checked with my neighbor buddies, with small children, they froze in abject fright at the idea. Can you imagine teenage boys sneaking into the yard at night and daring each other to open the pen?
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 12:13 AM By Abeca Christian
If only we lived in a Catholic world where it was Christ friendly instead, now wouldn't that be nice....I can only dream. I guess it has to start with us in wanting to walk with Christ to help carry our cross.
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:04 AM By Canisius
No PA you are not a True Catholic, the only god you bow down to is that of your own feelings.
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:13 AM By Bob
Mr, Miss, Ms. or Mrs gravey states that the Oakland Diocese is a mess. Please, what makes it a mess? Is it one or two examples our of 80+ parishes, is it one person's approach to a subject, is it hundreds of people trying to teach the faith each week, just what is it? Please don't make statements that are so general as to be irrelevant. State specifics, give percentages, etc. That would be more helpful, I think. Don't you?
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:16 AM By Anne T.
Kenneth Fisher, my "amen" was to your post about our being in a form of war. As far as PA's Catholic school, I know nothing about it, or whether he is telling the truth about his teachers or not.
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:15 AM By Mark from PA
So how do parishes let people know that they are no longer "friendly"? Do they post a sign or do they just quietly tell people to go away?
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:12 PM By Ray/ Wa.
I once read an account where little Jacinta of Fatima once asked the Blessed Mother,"what sin sends more souls to hell'" and she replied immorality, sins of the flesh. My vow/consecration of celebacy is devoted as a sacrifice for such souls, especially those of same-sex attraction. Mark, i am saddened by your hardness of heart to the truth. You keep skirting around it as if you are really trying to convince your self. Okay just for a second one would to say being a homosexual is not a sin, couples of this sexual orientation live together unmarried, having sex, according not just to our Catholic faith, but as a christain, intercourse outside marriage is a sin. So????? My best friend and companion passed away a year ago. We lived and worked together his last 11 years, but he respected greatly my decision to accept and live a celebate life, he always was there to encourage me to live out my choice, always quick to admonish me if he saw me slacking in living out my faith. Always supporting me by sending me on spiritual retreats every year. He was not Catholic but his support and belief in my choice made him to be a benefactor of helping me to become the catholic son I am today, and I thank God he was placed in my path, for in and through my sin, I came home, for indeed nothing is impossible for GOd to those who love Him, and I do, desperately. In J,M.J. Ray
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 3:24 PM By Mark from PA
Anne, I went to 12 years of Catholic school and was taught mostly by religious sisters. The were IHM (Sisters Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary) sisters. I had many excellent teachers. When I was in the early grades we had 50 students in a class. I am thankful to those sisters for giving me a strong background in my faith. When I was in school we went to Mass most weekdays during Lent and also on First Fridays. We also had great devotion to the Blessed Mother. I had two excellent priests who taught me Religion two years. I also had a priest that did not care for me who taught me Religion 3 years in high school. In my opinion, our Religion program in high school could have been better. I feel that our high school program should have been more Christ-centered.
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:01 PM By JLS
PA, it is always a great experience to hear about your 12 years of Catholic school. Too bad those nuns who taught you were not supervised by a holy priest.
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:17 PM By Mark from PA
Ray, I am sorry for the loss of your best friend and companion. That is good that he respected your decision to accept and live a celibate life and that he encouraged you. I am glad that he supported you in your faith. Thank you for sharing your story. May Our Lord grant you many graces and blessings. In the peace of Christ - Mark
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:01 PM By Mark from PA
JLS, there were 2 different nuns who were principal when I was in grade school and 2 different nuns who were principal when I was in high school. They were great women. They were not supervised by the priests. The priest who taught me Religion in 8th Grade left after that year to become a missionary in South America for several years. He is a holy man and still is active in our diocese. He gives seminars from time to time. I am still close to the priest that taught me Religion in 11th Grade. He is like a big brother to me and a big support to me when I was in college.
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Posted Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:19 PM By gravey
Two words Bob: Liturgical abuses.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:48 AM By Canisius
With all respect to JLS but PA is there anyway that you can stop dronning on about your past, no one here cares. You talk too much and listen too little, you are one annoying person. Just shutup either say something relevant or keep silent. How about I start posting about my experiences in the service and then the FFL, no one here would care. Just be quiet
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:14 AM By JLS
Canisius, you'd probably have some interested readers. The reason I post personal history is for the reason of searching for a simple means of combatting the dualism that is so prevalent. The tendency of this dualism is to separate the material world from the spiritual world, which is one of the ways of heresy. It can be seen as a kind of substitute for the Sacrament of Confession. But I do get tired of using my own history. Maybe I can find a better way. As for PA, what I'm driving at is the fact that nuns are not autonomous, and need supervision by ordained men appointed by the bishops or by the popes. These supervisors have been missing in action for a long time, falsely freeing up the nuns to run wild with insane spiritual programs.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:55 AM By Ski Ven
PA, if you have learned all of the stuff that you post here from the nuns, then you have been poorly educated about the Catholic faith. They shouldn't be teaching anymore.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:00 AM By Canisius
JLS, I appreciate the thoughts but my history has been much less than pious. Perhaps I can chalk up to youthful indiscretions, but I also witnessed a lot of death and killing. I was in 1st gulf war and then in the conflict in the Balkans. I was fighting for the Serbs, who in my opinion have lied about for a long time in the Western Media. I saw worst and best of humanity there, and Serbs who dont have a lot of love for Catholics treated me as a brother. Even though I was barely a practicing Catholic, back then, they were my brothersfighting against Muslims who were not that innocent. Its funny how as a traditionalist I found the Serbian Orthodox more accepting of me than liberal Catholics who detest traditional Catholics. Thats a fact
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:56 AM By RR
Canisius: I have to disagree with you on this one. I like hearing about other people's life experiences. I also love to read all your funny and sarcastic posts. Sometime I laugh so hard at your posts that I have tears in my eyes. I think you are a man of extreme, great faith and are very faithful to the Church. I do learn alot from others that post here. As far as JLS: I really do agree with much, not all, of what he says. I do think he is an interesting person when I actually can understand one of his posts. As far as Mark from PA: He is in a class all his own. I think he has a kind heart and is a good person. The only thing I can say negatively about him is that he makes plays on my words and that he promotes and condones ACTIVE homosexual behaior. That does make me very frustrated, but he is his own worst enemy on here. I think you must be having a bad day or something. You're one of my favorite posters here, so I wish you would tell more things about yourself on here. Everyone has something worthwhile to say. We might not agree with them, but I love reading of other fellow Catholics.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:24 AM By Caniius
Thank you RR for the kind words. I know I am little tough on PA, but he sounds like a broken record. I try to be humble with my faith knowing I am struggling sinner, but I do not question the moral teachings of the Church. I just cannot understand how progressives think they actually have some new understanding of the Faith which contradicts not only scripture but the great Fathers like Augustine and Aquinas.
My past not something I am too proud off, adventurous yes, but a prime example of the life of a saint, and its still not. A cross I must carry
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:46 AM By Ski Ven
Canisius, I appreciate your manly posts. They are a much needed relief from the effeminate posts that can be found here. Your history would be pretty interesting to me. I am sure that you do more manly things in one day than PA and Maguire do in an entire month.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:34 PM By Canisius
Ski-Ven glad you like the posts, I think the emasculation of the American male in the culture has been going on for sometime now. Men spending more time in the mirror than their girlfriends, women acting like men, thinking being gay is OK is part of a larger plot to destroy the family unit. Marx himself knew that the family would be major strumbling block in his worker paradise. How do you destroy the family, by attacking its protector, the Man. Feminism and homosexuality has lead a path of destruction aimed at the familly and masculinity
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:20 PM By Ski Ven
Amen. St. Joseph, pray for us, that we may be real men like you.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:28 PM By JLS
Canisius, years ago I had a renter who was a Marine corporal, who served as an armorer in Gulf I. He reflected great respect for the FFL (French Foreign Legion, I'm supposing). One day his unit traded some gear for night vision goggles with those FFL guys and spied on the women on the base ...youthful indiscretion. Also, I read a paperback written by a local high school teacher illustrating his time in the war in the Balkans. There was a sharp divide between youthful indiscretions and some of the brutality he witnessed by one of the opposing armies. I still do not have it straight as to which army was which and what the goals were and other things. I think he pinned some heavy blame on the Muslim troops (Bosnians?) "Nuther teacher locally served in the Falklands War with the British: He told about one day's horrible event where they came across boys from a military cadet school who were in a cave. His unit was ordered to capture or kill them, and the horror of it for him and others was that the boys refused to come out. They were armed inside the cave, and so that prevented the Brits from peacefull extraction, most or all the boys died. No doubt this guy continues to be troubled ... but he does not hide his involvement from the public. Once years ago I made what is called a general confession (not a general absolution ... completely different things) ... two hours on my knees, until the priest was tired and had me continue in a chair for another hour or so. A general confession is supposed to be everything in one session. I think its purpose is to attempt to move one's soul towards "perfect contrition", so that all consequences of sin vanish. Complete contrition is rare: a billion Catholics in our world and how many of them have been raised to sainthood ... my understanding that this raising requires perfect contrition. Used to be that there were a lot of holy monastics living out in the middle of nowhere who availed themselves for this purpose.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 2:48 PM By RR
Canisius: No, you are not too hard on Mark from PA. Sometimes we have to use a lot of pressure to crack a hard skull. Maybe, just maybe, we can eventually get through his thick skull. Yeah, he does sound like a broken, bad, 70's record, but I think there is hope there. He just needs to not fall for the gay lie. I am humbled also about my faith because I too am a sinner. I still have a lot to learn about the Church, but what I do know about Church teaching I do not cave to anyone. I live by the morals of the Catholic Church and no ACTIVE homosexual will ever get me to believe that what they do is right or loving. It's not. It's mortally sinful. I also struggle with certain sins and it is a cross to bear. I also see how the progressives have taken over since Vatican II. Nothing is considered a sin anymore and the Confession lines are nill. I can remeber growing and my parents saying, "Let's get to Confession early so we don't have to wait forever in line." Now, when I go, I can walk right in. I, also, am a Roman Catholic and I adhere to Sacred Tradition. Sacred Tradition is what the Church is based on, but it appears to be taken over by the progressives to keep up with the times. Modern day Catholics need to know and remember that the Church was the same for almost 2000 years and that Catholics who attend the Latin Mass are not looking for nostalgia, but for The Mass of Tradition that was taken from us in Vatican II and replaced in the venacular. Keep up the good fight, Canisius and keep on a postin! We can learn a lot from others' experiences and pasts much like we did from St. Augustine & St. Aquinas.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:19 PM By Mark from PA
I have to admit that I do enjoy your posts, JLS, and I appreciate you sharing you life with us. You and I could surely be friends. (You would be the big brother, I am sure.) Canisius, your post of 10 AM is very interesting, I have had many courses in European and Russian history so I understand the dynamics in the Balkans. However, we have very different life experiences, you were fighting Muslims in the Balkans and I was learning catechism from nuns in old-fashioned habits. I have never fired a gun or even been in a fight as I am something of a pacifist, such is my nature.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 3:36 PM By Canisius
JLS, so of things I did back then has caused me a heavy burden of guilt, not just the fighting either. I have confessed my sins and performed penance, but those memories are still there. There are times when I feel like going to the middle of no where.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 4:59 PM By Grisha
I once saw a sign on a Baptist Church that said they were "Sinner Friendly." Aren't all Christian churches supposed to be "Sinner friendly." How did Ascension, St. Luke and Christ the King stop being "gay friendly" Kick out all the gays? Just give them the cold shoulder till they got the picture?
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:34 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mark from PA,
The answer to your question: "So how do parishes let people know that they are no longer "friendly"?" is simple, they teach the fullness of the Faith, including the fact that homosexual activities and yes out of wedlock heterosexual activities are serious Mortal Sins.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:44 PM By RR
No, Grisha. St. Luke and Christ told them to go and sin no more. The ball would be in their court.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:56 PM By The Truth Hurts
Canisius, I also enjoy your posts very much because you are not lukewarm. Who wants lukewarm water, coffee or tea? Thank you for your humility. Please do share your stories, especially the ones where the good guy triumphs over evil. So now I can see that you are a fine mixture of St. Augustine and St. Jerome. You sound like you graduated from the Finest University of Life's Hard Knocks where you've ended up with a Master's Degree in *Blessed Consequences*. in Accepting responsibility, Contrition and Learning to move forward like St Augustine. Congratulations and join the rest of us sinners who cannot ever claim a perfect slate.Canisius, Did you have a St. Monica in your life?.....Quotes from St. Augustine "Our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee" "Late have I loved you O' Beauty ever ancient and ever new. Late have I loved you, And behold, you were within me, and I out of myself, and there I searched for you." Thank you so much for serving God and for serving our Country!
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 5:58 PM By RR
Canisius: I have done things in my past that I have confessed, but as you say the guilt and memories are still there. You do have to know that the sins are forgiven. I also have those feelings that all I want to do is be alone by myself and contemplate the wrongs I have done and tell God again that I'm so sorry. Obviously, I can't since I have a family. What I have done, though it may seem extreme, is I have gone to the chapel that I attend (ALONE) and I have bowed down to God, tears flowing out of my eyes, and told Him that all I can do now is trust in His mercy. I know God knows that I am so sorry for having offended Him so deeply. Maybe you can talk to your priest and ask him to let you alone in the church for awhile and talk God in the Blessed Sacrament and let Him(God) know what you are feeling. I know this helped me overcome some of my failings and sins in the past. Perhaps it will help you. He sees here how you are a soldier for Him in fighting this battle of the world vs. Him. God Bless You, Canisius!
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 6:38 PM By Mark from PA
Mr.Fisher, I have a friend who is a priest and he said that it is harder now when planning weddings because most of the people are already living together. So it appears that most people getting married these days already have a lot of experience. You probably can't find a man who was chaste and pure when he got married.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:04 PM By JLS
Canisius, the consequences of sin are not removed by the Sacrament of Confession, but only the guilt ... except in the case of "perfect contrition". I converted through humility in 1974 to Christ and then to the Church five years later. I did this because I could see the mat coming up, and I did not want to hit it. I tell people that in '68 I wandered into the sixties, and in '74 I escaped. I did it after several attempts over several years, and the only way it succeeded was the humility factor. One aspect of this factor was my emersion in a Jesus commune, a big one with many satellite locations and administratively connected with a significant Protestant sect. The personalities in that group were amazing; they came from Bible colleges but mostly from the highways and byways. They worked off the power of Baptism, but then some had been confirmed early in life in the Church so that they contributed that dimension of God's grace also. The humility was a very earthly primitive humility. Some guys had served several hitches in VN. Not everyone stayed; some left because they could not bring themselves to live a humble life. I left after 8 months not because of this but because I knew there was more and I wanted to find it ... that turned out to be Catholicism. There may also have been a few mystical experiences, but such things require a humble state, internally if not externally also. Penance has long become a way of life; I don't see what else there is in my case. Am I claiming to have achieved perfect contrition? No; I don't even know what it is beyond saying that it can be done, and it takes some faith to believe that perfect contrition can be done without knowing what it is perhaps. My grandfather commanded an infantry company on the Western Front and was haunted by the experience for the rest of his life. My uncle did Iwo Jima and even now can not tell of the details. But neither of these men were Catholic with Her great resources.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:16 PM By JLS
Concerning wanting to go off to the middle of nowhere and be alone: When I gave up my efforts to seek God, that is exactly what I did. I grabbed a pack, a few dollars, my dog and hit the road with my thumb out. I told no one that I wouldn't be back. I told no one where I was headed. I was set on finding God. My plan was to simply go to the highest most remote mountains I could get to and wait for God to say something to me. I made it as far as Eureka Calif and the Jesus people I mentioned previously. With them I went up into many high mountains and we talked and walked with God ... we spent the days up there working hard planting trees at the snowline in Oregon, Washington, northern California. God provides more abundance than we can ask for. The Eucharist, for example, is humble, and yet look what it provides. The humility of God provides the greatest of riches. The humility of God provides life. There are monasteries which take in visitors and penitants. Yet God can also lift us up into the middle of nowhere, where there is only Him and you. And He can set you back down again in the blink of an eye.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:02 PM By Canisius
To TTH, I know my mother prayed the rosary twice a day, but my father became a major influence in the formation of my Faith, after wondering for long time. I think both of them combined were my St. Monica, Lord know I made them both crazy in the early years. JLS you said you went out to seek God, I think when I got home from my wandering he was there at home waiting for me.
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:35 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mark from PA,
"Harder" is not the same as "Impossible" and if you look harder you can find such men and women. Are they rare, yes, extinct, no!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:31 PM By JLS
That first sentence didn't come out right. What I meant was that I realized I'd need to escape my social network, not my efforts to seek God.
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