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Published: October 27, 2007
Miller Brewing Co. apologizes
Brewer says it regrets “inappropriate use of brand logo” in publicity promoting San Francisco’s Folsom Street Fair
News Release from Miller Brewing Company
Milwaukee, October 26, 2007
 Miller Brewing Company today issued a formal apology for the offense caused by the use of Miller brand logos on a poster promoting the Folsom Street Fair in San Francisco. The company said it has taken action to ensure that such an incident will not happen again.
Miller has just completed an exhaustive audit of its marketing procedures for approving local marketing and sales sponsorships, and it is implementing plans to tighten its compliance procedures. The company has received assurances from its local distributor in San Francisco and from Folsom Street Events that future marketing materials and event activities will fully comply with Miller’s marketing policies and procedures.
“We deeply regret that we did not adhere to our own policies with regard to the Folsom Street Fair,” said Miller Senior Vice President Nehl Horton. “We apologize to everyone we offended as a result. We hope people will forgive us for this serious error and have confidence we will not repeat it.”
Miller did not have the opportunity to review or approve the Folsom Street Fair poster, but accepts full accountability for this serious mistake.
“Miller Brewing was never afforded the opportunity to review our Fair poster before it was printed and distributed,” said Andy Copper, Board President of Folsom Street Events. “The approval was made by a third party without Miller’s knowledge and consent.”
Copper also issued an apology on behalf of the organization which distributed the controversial poster. “I would like to apologize to anyone who felt that the image was disrespectful to their religious beliefs,” said Copper. “No malicious intent was involved.”
In addition to issuing a formal public apology today, Miller sent letters of apology to Catholic Archbishops George H. Niederauer of San Francisco and Timothy M. Dolan of Milwaukee.
“Like all major brewers, Miller seeks to market respectfully to a wide and diverse array of consumer groups,” Horton concluded. “But when one group actively disrespects another we cannot support its events and activities.”
Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:18 AM By Lisa
Yada-yada-yada. Words are easy to speak under pressure but remember Jesus' words...."Beware of wolves in sheep's clothing."
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:11 AM By Mary Ann Kreitzer
But will Miller continue to financially support sadomasochism? There apology is insufficient for this consumer. If they continue to support the Folsom Street Fair I will not buy Miller.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 7:58 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Miller Brewing is full of baloney. For years Miller has been advertising heavily in "gay" areas and in "gay" publications. I don't believe they even cared whether some offensive ads were used.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:57 AM By garvan
Miller's "apology", of course, is a transparent, lying attempt at damage control. A vice president of Merrill-Lynch, who has a friend on the Miller Brewing board of directors, called him when the protests started up. He was fully aware of the poster and what Folsom Street involved, and told the Merrill-Lynch exec that the prostesters could "go to hell"; that Miller wasn't at all worried about the boycott, because the protesters were mainly not in their beer drinking demographic (18-39). Obviously the boycott IS hurting Miller, so keep up the boycott.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:44 AM By Papamac
Sales are taking a hit, so these people all of a sudden get religion, was it the HOLY SPIRIT, OR THE GREED MERCHANTS LOSING DOLLARS. These greed merchants mocked Christians, especially Catholics by sponsoring this demonic spectacle. Lets just stick to our new found beer drinking if we so need to pop a top or two. GOD BLESS
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:17 AM By Janice
I guess we hit them where it hurts! The pocketbook.
Thanks to everyone who forgot Miller time.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 11:56 AM By Claire
It's a little bit too late. A responsible company would not allow its logo or any advertising materials to be so offensive. Apparently Miller did not hold tight reins over its advertising, and was not concerned that some of it might be highly offensive. Or it was important to them to curry the gay/lesbian/bisexual movement's favor.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 1:10 PM By Sonja
I am certain their apology is just about as insincere as the feeble apologies offered by the lowerarchy of the roman catholic church to the victims of rape and sodomy by roman catholic priests, nuns, brothers and deacons. EVERYONE is ALWAYS sorry for EVERYTHING.... but only AFTER they have been caught.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 1:38 PM By Art
Good question Laurette. I bet that Miller is hoping that this incident blows over and that we all have short memories. I'm not much of a beer drinker, but I will never buy Miller products again.
GOD bless.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 4:33 PM By WB
Miller's apology is just a marketing tactic to cover-up their support for the gay agenda. I will continue the boycott. This also means boycotting Coors since they're merged with Miller also. Coors was a family owned business before but they're just a congolomerate now.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:03 PM By Eric
According to this article Miller will still support FSE, and all those who say sales have been hit can you produce numbers? I can remember a failed Disney boycott and a few other boycotts started by the Religious MisRight that haven't worked. I don't think you can claim victory.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 6:51 PM By John L. Sillasen
KMart was brought down by a boycott orchestrated by American Family Association's Don Wildmon about a dozen years ago, for not prohibiting its Walden Books company from selling child porn. I can easily find better beer for about the same price than Miller, Anh. Busch, Coors in lots of stores.
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:24 PM By James Hartline
What do you mean keep up the boycott, it is working? If it is mostly Catholics that are participating in the boycott, then how could that be hurting Miller? Are you telling me that there are that many people who are going to church who are boozing it up? When does the hypocrisy stop?
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Posted Saturday, October 27, 2007 10:56 PM By Catholic Beerdrinker
Mr. Hartline: Are you suggesting that it is somehow sinful for a Catholic to enjoy a few beers? If so, you are dead wrong and sound more like a Southern Baptist than a Roman Catholic! Besides, Miller's mea cupla had more to do with PR than with beverage sales. The point is that we got their attention.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:36 AM By Maria C
May I ask what is Folsom Street Fair ? Perhaps I live a sheltered life, I don't know what that is. I never supported any beer companies. Miller might as well close down, that would be a great blessing. Catholic beer drinker did you know that in the bible times people drank wine or beer because the water was bad. So I agree beer drinking is not wrong what makes it a sin is the person or persons that abuse it and get drunk. I also was told by a Christian nutritionist, he is not a Catholic Christian that if you drink just one monthly from a bottle not a can, that it would flush out aluminum from your system. Don't know if that is true. BUt I also understand James H about this too because lots of people do abuse alcohol. That is when it becomes sinful and the ads this Miller company usually advertises aren't Christian at all.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 3:39 AM By Maria C
Sonja your comments are not fair. Nuns? You obviously hate the church to judge it as a whole.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:52 AM By Stuart
TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE! Having promptly and personally emailed Miller as soon as I found out about their sponsoring a mockery of Christ, I have never received even a simple email from them. My family has drank Miller beer for well over 100 years but I can see that times change, and I could never support a company that sponsors such things, then only apologizes weeks later after sales have been hit). I could not even imagine the reaction my late grandfather, a very faithful Catholic and a Miller beer drinker would have had if he had seen such a perverse misrepresentation of the last supper with Miller's logo on it...it probably would have killed him on the spot! I can never drink a Miller again. Period.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:23 AM By John L. Sillasen
Let me tell a brief tale ... true ... about teetotalers and hypocrisy. Two years before I checked into the Catholic Church, I was in a Conservative Baptist church. This denomination is almost the same as the Southern Baptists, except they are forbidden to drink any alcohol, play cards other than Whist, or dance. About a dozen of us singles went to a restaurant for dinner. At some point there were three glasses of red wine on the table. I never could figure out who was drinking that wine, but it was all gone by the end of the meal. I was intentionally trying to see who was drinking it. Now, one or more of these Baptist teetotelers was a Mason (known for ritualized magic), and loved magic tricks. I have gone over that dinner countless times, and thirty years later cannot figure out who drained the goblets. They also claim to change grape juice into the blood of Christ without saying exactly how they do it ... I'd call it textbook hypocrisy.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:08 AM By John L. Sillasen
The only larger brewer I'm aware of that has no bad rap is Corona, out of Mexico. There are smaller brewers also whose beers are often competitively priced, and offer a great variety in flavor, quality, etc. The big four, Bud, Miller, Coors, Adams ... these all seem to have immoral advertising rapsheets. But I dont' follow them closely ... I just become aware of any serious immoral advertizing rants, and let 'em go their merry ... uh, gay way.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:11 AM By JPeterman
Interesting story John and welcome HOME! Interesting they can't drink and consider it a sin when our Lord turned water into wine. Also interesting that they can't dance but didn't our Lord instruct us to "Dance for Joy" when we are persecuted. These denominations are almost always solo scriptura but I notice that they are very selective when it comes to certain passages of the Holy Bible especially little passages ohh..like John Chapter 6
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:16 PM By John L. Sillasen
JPeterman, just before the time I left that Baptist congregation ... whose pastor was a noted Scripture scholar who had worked on translating the Revised Standard Version of the Bible (modern version of their "venerable" King James Bible) ... I asked a question, and you could almost see their heels disappear over the horizon. I do not remember the question, but it had to do with Scripture and denominations. There was a lot of higher education among that congregation, and they were afraid to deal with one "little" question. One young man actually listened and understood the question and my point ... I wonder today if he ever made a search beyond Protestantism. But, the key Scriptures to my decision to leave and continue to seek out the true Church, was just what you said ... John 6, and also the Gospel verses on Jesus' consecration of the bread into the Bread, and the cup into the Cup. The Baptist ritual skips a beat; ie, they do not make the connection. A couple years later, on the phone with a Catholic priest, on this topic, he defined it as concisely and perfectly as can be ... and instantly that clinched the deal for me; at that moment I knew where to find the fullness of Jesus. I do not recall the name of that priest, nor where to find him; it was the only time I talked with him; I was selling him a Catholic publication. The many conservative Catholics there would explain all my questions with a great spirit of charity, and would not mince or shy away from anything I asked about religion. Even in emotionally loaded interactions, the informal instruction would always advance, and would never come to a stop. Ironically to this thread topic, the man in charge had founded a program to get alcoholics off the juice.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:50 PM By Eric
Ignore James Hartline.
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 6:59 PM By Grisha
Oh Com'on Eric. You and James ought to go out for a beer and talk over your differences. :-)
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 8:27 PM By Eric
anyone providing numbers or facts that the boycott is working or are you all just failing to recall that Miller said earlier they'd be doing a self audit on approval of advertising after this whole controvery exploded?
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Posted Sunday, October 28, 2007 9:18 PM By Eric
I shiver everytime I see James. I'm mystified as to why an Evanglicial Ex-gay who is probably as antiCatholic as he is antiGay is posting here.
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 7:58 AM By James Hartline
No one who is claiming to be a Christian should be drinking beer. In this day and age, we need to be distinguishing ourselves from the world. If you claim to believe in the Bible and you are living according to the same standard as the world then what is your point in going to church? Is it a social club? A family thing? What? Our young people are being destroyed by the world's godless system and they are looking for role models. Ungodly people are infiltrating our churches to corrupt and destroy the church's ability to affect the world for God's purposes. You can always flush out an infiltrator if you are living by God's standards. Notice how false Christians even infiltrate this particular article's forum. Notice how these two, Eric and Grisha mock my stand. Notice how they respond by stating "ignore me" and encouraging people to go out drinking.
These examples are exactly why we should not be drinking so that we stand apart from the ungodly and you can easily discern who is on what side of God's laws.
How can people see that the Holy Spirit is dwelling in us if we are drinking alcohol?
The Bible says, "Come Out From Among Them," and "What does light have in common with darkness."
And, we should not be giving money anyway, to any company that sponsors these radicalized, anti-christian events.
By the way, Tuesday, Oct. 30th we will be having a prayer rally at San Diego City Hall @8:30am sharp; and we will be speaking out at the city council @10am against the men who dress up as nuns and mock the Catholic Church. Contact me if you want to participate in this most important event. And also, support James Hartline in His successful bid for the 2008 San Diego City Council race: www.hartline08.com
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 10:01 AM By Christopher Zehnder
Mr. Hartline,
What about wine?
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 11:04 AM By Maria C
James Hartline we give thanks to our Lord that you embraced His graces and left the gay lifestlye. I am thankful to God for that. You are truly an inspiration in that department. Now As a Christian I don't agree with your intrepretation of not drinking beer at all. I don't drink beer and I don't want to encourage people to drink either, better they stay away from alcohol in my opinion, James but I know other Christians that do and they are very good souls for Christ, they don't drink up and get drunk. Beer is not the problem, the vise or abuse of it is the problem. Also you have been known to hate Catholics, I don't know if that is true or just gossip but respectfully Mr. Hartline, I also believe that Christians should maintain a virtueous demeaner at all times which is not always easy through these posts because anything can be misintrepeted. (hope I spelled this word correctly) I do admire your ambition to fight the homosexual agenda and you are a wonderful activist regarding that area, I admire that, but please do not call us false Christians, as I believe in my heart that anyone out of the Holy Catholic Church, the Rock, is false Christains. We may have our problems in our church and even those that call themselves Catholic that are truly lost and disobient, but that is the reasons Jesus came, he came here lovingly and mercifully knew that we were and continue to need the great Physcian, Jesus Christ. Not everyone that calls out "Lord, Lord" will be saved. Some even behave as an anti- Christ inside and outside the faith. See how our views differ. I respect your walk in Jesus even if it be outside the Holy Catholic Church, but you should come see the wholeness of the truth, and that is found in the Holy Catholic Church. Matthew 16:18. Respectfully I accept if you don't agree with me. The graces come from our Lord. His graces be upon us all.
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 11:28 AM By Eric
Hartline is as antiCatholic as he is antigay. why even bother to engage him Christopher.
I repeat he isn't even Catholic, he attends Mission Valley Christian Church, why is he even commenting?
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 1:09 PM By Brian S.
Well, I agree with one thing - stay away from beer packaged in aluminum cans! That poisons the stuff!
As for "distinguishing ourselves from the world", there are better ways to do it than refraining from drinking a beverage holy monks spent centuries perfecting. That wouldn't distingish us from Adolph Hitler who (beyond being a lover of dogs), was famously a teetotaler.
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 1:40 PM By WB
St. Adrian, patron saint of beer; St. Amand, patron saint of brewers, barkeepers, and wine merchants; St. Martin, the patron saint of wine; St. Lawrence, patron saint of winemakers, St. Vincent, patron saint of vintners -- Pray for us.
Following the collapse of the roof of an abbey brewery in Flanders, the good Saint Arnold of Soissons asked God to multiply the stores of beer which were left for the monk's consumption. When Arnold's prayer was answered in abundance, the monks and townspeople were prepared to canonize him on the spot. While Arnold of Soissons is best known for his miraculous provision of beer, he is also credited with a most practical improvement upon the brewing process. While weaving bee skeps for the abbey's apiary, the abbot realized that the straw cones could be used as a filter to further clarify the brother's beer. In remembrance of this contribution to the brewer's art, the good saint is often portrayed--as on the certificates of the Belgian Brewers Confederation--in the company of bees with one hand resting upon a bee skep.
St. Brigid founded the monastery of Kildare and was known for spirituality, charity, and compassion. St. Brigid also was a generous, beer-loving woman. She worked in a leper colony which found itself without beer, "For when the lepers she nursed implored her for beer, and there was none to be had, she changed the water, which was used for the bath, into an excellent beer, by the sheer strength of her blessing and dealt it out to the thirsty in plenty." She also is reputed to have supplied beer out of one barrel to eighteen churches, which sufficed from Maundy Thursday to the end of paschal time. A poem attributed to Brigid in the Brussel's library begins with the lines "I should like a great lake of ale, for the King of the Kings. I should like the family of Heaven to be drinking it through time eternal."
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 6:56 PM By John L. Sillasen
"All that wine": The Baptists claim it was all grape juice, in that it was all the "new wine", ie unfermented grape juice. Odd that there is no Jewish tradition of drinking grape juice at weddings. This question, however, has been tough enough to warrant quaffing an extra round or two.
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Posted Monday, October 29, 2007 11:43 PM By Maria C
Mr. James Hartline is welcome here anytime. By reading alot of the posts, there are many responses that aren't from only Catholics. I actually appreciate his strong convictions no matter how they come accross, I don't mind keeping open dialogue with him. Welcome Mr. James Hartline and God bless you for fighting the good fight when it comes to family values and such. : ) Come back, do join us in helping us fight the good fight. : ) I personally invite you to attend Mass with us sometime. I don't know where you are at, but do look for a devout Holy Catholic church near by.
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Posted Tuesday, October 30, 2007 9:55 PM By John L. Sillasen
Many are the hardcore anti-Catholics who have found faith and moved into the Church. One guy traveled around a country in the near east, executing Christians under color of law; one day he saw the light, and then took instructions in a top school, following which he traveled around several countries preaching and teaching Jesus Christ. He was beaten for it a dozen times, both legally and illegally, shipwrecked, jailed, and finally deported ... then after explaining his faith for two years to some high level people, he was executed. He never said a word about abstaining from beer, wine, or whiskey. He converted sodomites to the faith, as well as many other categories of sinner. Of all those categories, not one had to do with the responsible consumption of alcoholic drink.
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Posted Thursday, November 01, 2007 10:55 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
James Hartline,
Our faith teaches us that we can drink alcohol in MODERATION, but It is a serious mattter to get drunk!
St. Padre Pio drank beer every day at the directions of his doctors, he did so because the hops in beer helped to replenish his constant loss of blood. Was he sinning?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
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Posted Friday, November 02, 2007 11:44 AM By James Hartline
There is nothing wrong with drinking one glass of wine. The Bible clearly tells us that wine was a part of the Old Testament. The drinking of beer is not supported anywhere in the Bible. And it is sheer idiocy for anyone to claim I am anti-catholic. I have done more to stand up for the Catholic Church than anyone in the city of San Diego. Anyone who claims otherwise is part of a propaganda campaign that seeks to get Catholics not to follow my stand for Jesus Christ. There are corrupt politicians in San Diego County who I have exposed for their corruption and they claim to be Catholic. So they try to get people to convince people that I am anti-catholic so that Catholics won't listen to my reports on the corrupt politicians. AND I am a born again Christian. I am going to heaven and I serve the Lord Jesus Christ faithfully. It is utter false Biblical teachings to say that you must be a member of any organization in order to be saved. That position is not found in the Bible ANYWHERE. To impose false religious rules on the requirements to be saved is to negate the completed sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ. The demand that people submit to a rule that does not, nor has it ever existed in the Bible, is a vehicle for trying to control people. Jesus said to be saved, "You must accept Him as savior and repent." That is it. To impose any other standard is to beat people down into a false religion that has no basis in the Bible. And I will challenge anyone to show, from the Bible, where Jesus said a person has to join a religious organization to get saved. Please. stop the propaganda. It doesn't work on me. The Bible says that you will know them by their fruits. The spirit of religion seeks to enslave mankind into a controlling religious system that sets no one free.
Do you think I got out of thirty years of homosexuality by joining an organization. I got out because the Holy Spirit dwells in me from the day I got saved. Stop interfering with God's salvation!
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Posted Friday, November 02, 2007 2:35 PM By Brian S.
You stand up for the Catholic Church more than anyone in the entire City of San Diego Mr. Hartline? I can't imagine why you would if you consider the Catholic Church to be a "false religion" which "impose(s) false religious rules", to "negate ..Christ", and in doing so is "interfering with God's salvation." Doesn't make much sense to me, but thanks - I guess.
Wine (one glass only) = OK. Beer (not biblical) = Not Supported. Thanks for clearing that up, too. What does the Bible say about brussel sprouts?
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Posted Friday, November 02, 2007 3:33 PM By John L. Sillasen
"It is utter false Biblical teachings to say that you must be a member of any organization in order to be saved": James Hartline, if you are saying that the Catholic Church teaches this, then you are incorrect. Now, if you actually proceed a little here and a little there to find out what exactly the Church does indeed teach, you will eventually come to John 6, and also the verse where Jesus institutes the Eucharist, and then puts His earthly throne in Peter's hands (and obviously his successors'). If you hear the Lord calling you to the Catholic Church, fine; if not, well go ahead anyway and check John 6, which is the most difficult verse you'll have to wrestle with. As for leaving sodomy, halleluiah!!! As for keeping alcohol to a minimum, halleluiah!!! But many there are who have no problem with it; I don't. But I have worked with a few who do ... and it is a sad and abyssmal problem. It is just great if you are pulling other souls out of the depths of sin.
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Posted Friday, November 02, 2007 6:29 PM By WB
It's very good to hear that you left the path of homosexuality. The Catholic faith can be traced back to the apostles, to Christ. It's a deep faith that touches on every aspect of Scripture. It's good to have an immediate experience of grace and liberation from sin. As you progress in grace you should seek the origins of Christianity, especially how the Bible was communicated to mankind, but also how the Christians of the early ages lived and believed. Sometimes it's easy to be afraid that the powerful graces you receive will be lost if you look deeper into Christianity -- but if you do so prayerfully, with a desire to serve God and be closer to Jesus Christ, you will walk into a newer and greater world than you're even experiencing now. We call that world the Holy Catholic Church -- the Church founded by Jesus. That's where you can receive the sacraments and be strengthened and confirmed. In any case, it's good to hear about your story.
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Posted Friday, November 02, 2007 11:38 PM By Maria C
Great Job WB and John L. Sillasen. I also applaud Mr. James Hartline for keeping an open dialogue instead of getting mad and cursing people who don't agree with his believes. Truly wish we can truly dialogue with you Mr. James hartline and show you the passages and you can show us yours, but it can not be done here in these posts but you have to be open about it instead of getting mad like you have in the past. Anger gets no one anywhere, it is not about winning arguements sometimes but it is about winning souls for Jesus. Praise Be our Lord Jesus Christ. Mr. Hartline go to Catholic.com and see for your self and ask those questions that you asked us about our faith and you will find answers from the bible. That is a good place to start, if you disagree than we leave it as that, the rest is up to our Lord. I have been praying for you and still do. I am a faithful servant of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Posted Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:39 AM By James Hartline
Going to the Catholic Church or not going to the Catholic Church is not the point. The point is that those who tell people that they need to join any church to be saved is a false teaching that does not exist in the Bible. Don't twist what I have said. I have been very clear. If you want to go to the Catholic Church that is your choice. The issue is what are the requirements for salvation and getting to heaven, not what organization you are a member of. Jesus was very clear and the the Bible is very clear: the requirements for being saved and going to heaven were completed when Jesus died for our sins. Repent and be saved. That is it, nothing more, nothing less. If you have repented of your sins and accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior, you will go to heaven. Anyone who tries to add or impose other rules, for getting to heaven, are doing so in violation of the Bible and the clear teachings of Jesus Christ. To add other burdens to the simplicity of the Gospel in the area of salvation, is to do so, in disobedience to God's word. We are not saved by our works or church membership. We are only saved by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on that cross and our believing He died and rose again. The idea that someone would come along and burden down a suffering sinner in the world by imposing these man-made rules, is a terrible thing to do. Follow God's word and stop placing man's rules on top of the free gift of Jesus Christ.
I got freed from homosexuality, because I've got Christ's teachings correct. And I am completely free and in peace knowing I am on my way to heaven. And that is why God is free to use me to change my generation. And all of this does not have anything, nothing, nothing at all, with the type of church I go to.
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Posted Saturday, November 03, 2007 7:17 PM By Maria C
There was a saint long ago that said that graces even travel outside the church because our God is a God of mercy. But salvation still comes from His church, because we can find sanctifying grace there. Even when an athiest does not believe in God, he still has sufficient graces to know that murder is murder, that is why some are even pro-life. I have even met some Jews that condemn the gay lifestyle but still reject Jesus as the true savior. I know because they are good friends of mine. They have not accepted Jesus as their Lord and savior, so are they saved? As Christians we hope all know that answer. Jesus taught it in His holy word. Also man made rules? I have to correct you Mr. Hartline, the ten commandments are not man made rules and the Church that Jesus died for has traditions handed down from Jesus and he gave the power to His disciples to direct the flock to salvation, they may sound like rules to someone living in the flesh but they are actually graces and gifts from our Lord. The bible was given to us untill many many years way after Jesus resurrection. Since there were no printing press back them, the infant church had monks copy the Holy Bible by hand. Imagine that. Don't forget apostolic truths Mr. Hartline. Look up Apostolic Succession in www.catholic.com Even in the New testament, While saint Paul and saint Peter were spreading the faith, Christians joined these churchs Corinths, Antiach, Philidalphia (hope I spelled correctly) etc etc, they were all one Body in Jesus Christ, they were the Church. They never used the words membership, they were just the true Church, our Catholic Church was traced all the way back to that time. Do your research. God gives us free will to choose Him. He is good. My heartfelt thankfulness to our Lord for freeing you of that gay lifestyle, God gave you sufficient graces and by a miracle you have accepted. I praise God for that. You must of had good people praying for you too during that time.
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Posted Sunday, November 04, 2007 9:19 AM By James Hartline
Madam, you do not know your Bible. Please stop trying to instruct me on what the Bible does not say. I have been studying the word of God for many years and I have my Biblical doctrine quite correctly understood. Salvation DOES NOT come from any church. Salvation ONLY comes through Jesus Christ. It is clear that you do not base your theology on the Word of God. That is why you keep referring me to a website for your answers instead of Biblical scriptures. I don't even know why you feel the need to try to manipulate me on a public website. I don't need your illegitimate corrections or your continuous disrespect of my correct relationship in my Lord Jesus Christ. It is a sad statement about your religiosity that you have some ill-conceived obsession with disrespecting other Christians who do not follow YOUR personal path. I am saved and being used by God in my generation and I certainly do not need you to correct me on spiritual matters, particularly on joining your church. I am very happy with the church that I go to. And stop doing all of this ridiculous public assumptions of me or anyone else. You hardly even know anything about me. I was delivered from homosexuality by studying the Word of God and applying it correctly to my life in Jesus Christ. What an insult for you to think you need to impose your religiosity onto the freedom I now know through Jesus Christ. I have no interest in going to your websites or joining your organization. And that is certainly not the use that this forum was created for. So please, go bother someone else...I am not interested in your continuous insults.
Jesus said in John 8:31-32: "Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
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Posted Sunday, November 04, 2007 10:47 PM By Maria C
James Hartline This surely looks like it's going no where. By all means I only invited you to seek the truth, you are free as you wish sir. Now you feeling insulted, you are on your own, my words have only been charitable, out of the kindest of my heart. Don't let the evil one use your pride to misintrepred my sincere charity in Christ. I now leave you in peace. Go in peace. You will continue to be in my prayers. Brian S and John Sillasen I appreciate your kind comments, they are charitable. God bless you all. jmj
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Posted Sunday, November 04, 2007 11:00 PM By Maria C
God has blessed us with voice and speech, may our Lord tame our words and help us use our every words for the greater good for His liking. Reminder to all that Pride is the root of all evil. I may not have memorized all the bible but I have read the whole bible and I love the word and I continually ask our Lord to teach me His ways, and not only have I read the word of God and continue to do so, I also have learned of it's history and since my husband is a convert, he use to be a born again Christian and did alot of studying, it was him who showed me that the Catholic Church is truly Christ's church. By his studies of the word, he was also lead to the Catholic Church. He use to go to First Assembly Church of Christ. I must admit God used my husband, a convert, to learn Christianity very well through Christ's church and His holy word. You can't have one without the other. They both come hand in hand. Well anyhoo, enough lets go out and keep fighting the good fight. Priase be Jesus Christ almighty. The power of Prayer is something that I hold very close to me, that is how we communicate very closely with our Lord.
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