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Published: July 11, 2008
“Getting out of the legal marriage business"
Episcopal bishop says churches should let state handle matrimony
 The California Supreme Court’s legalization of same-sex marriage has added a new difficulty to ministers who may want to marry homosexual couples but belong to churches that do not permit such marriages. Bishop Marc Handley Andrus of the Episcopal Diocese of California, however, has found a solution to the dilemma – churches should just stop performing weddings.
A little over a week before the Supreme Court’s decision went into effect, Andrus wrote to his clergy, urging them "to encourage all couples, regardless of orientation, to follow the pattern of first being married in a secular service, and then being blessed in the Episcopal Church." The Episcopal Church formally forbids same-sex marriage, but many Episcopal clergy have for years been performing blessings of same-sex unions.
Andrus is a supporter of same-sex marriage. He has called on Episcopalians to oppose Proposition 8, a November ballot initiative that would amend the California constitution to forbid same-sex marriages. Andrus encouraged his clergy to help San Francisco officials conduct same-sex marriage ceremonies when they became formally legal (though the ministers were not allowed to wear clerical garb when they officiated).
Andrus’ proposed model, which is similar to that of many European and Latin American countries, would remove his U.S. clergy from serving as representatives of the civil government at weddings. It would also equalize his church’s treatment of traditional and same-sex marriages.
The proposal pleased the Very Rev. Brian Baker, dean of Trinity Cathedral in Sacramento. Baker believes performing weddings has become “trying,” according to the July 1 Sacramento Bee. "There are a lot of benefits in getting out of the legal marriage business," said Baker. "This way the clergy and the couple can focus on the spiritual blessings the church has to offer and not the political stuff."
Performing legal marriages "makes some ministers uncomfortable, because we're performing a civil function," Kent Carlson of Oak Hills Church in Folsom told the Bee. "Most of us are pastors first."
But George Raya, a member of Integrity, the support group for homosexuals in the Episcopal Church, said he thinks Andrus’ idea is merely a “way of getting around treating us equally. As soon as we can get married, they want us to get blessed? A lot of us would like to get married in church."
Indeed, many want to get married in a church, to which they subsequently never return. "They want to get married,” said Baker, “so they pick a church but don't go after the ceremony. We never see them again."
One of the most popular venues for weddings (which will not be hosting same-sex marriage ceremonies any time soon) is the Catholic Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament in Sacramento. In high demand (it is booked for most of the year), the cathedral charges $2,300 per wedding, a price that includes fees for an organist and wedding coordinator.
Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 5:14 AM By Fr. M.P.
Marriage was a divine function long before it was a civil function. Read Genesis. Andrus' proposal to keep the Church out of marriage is consistent with the belief to throw God out of one's life. How very worldly. Of course with Andrus beliefs about marriage, we already know that God has been thrown out.
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 6:28 AM By jw
It would also get out out of the legalities of the insurance industry's malpractice insurance for marriages that fail and then the legally married parties sue for having married them in the first place! And any gay or non-gay couples, that see the reason for having the state do the legal contract of marriage should rethink what their relationship with one-another has to do with the Church and sacraments in the first place.
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 8:50 AM By Harry
The lunacy that pervades the Episcopal Church makes the Rosemary Radford Ruethers and the leftist Roman Catholic Kooks look like orthodox believers! Just when the Church needs to restore marriage to its proper dignity, we decide to hand it over to the state and the secularists who are bent on eradicating it. Way to go Bishop Andrus!!!
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 9:08 AM By Puttss
I agree with the bishop.
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 9:33 AM By Eileen
The Catholic Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament in Sacramento charges $2,300 per wedding? That's a pretty stiff price to have to pay for one of the seven sacraments. No wonder that they never see them again. The Catholic Church was not intended to be a business venture that profits from wedding venues. I hope they throw in all of the baptisms, First Holy Communions, and Confirmations of the couple's children, and the couples last rites for that price. Who wants to learn about faith, hope and charity from someone who has just fleeced you? I wonder if St. John Vianney charged $2,300 church wedding prices to win a soul for Christ?
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 9:36 AM By Ray
Marriage is a sacrament established by God. Homosexuals and those who support same-sex "marriage" are only fooling themselves, as homosexuality is a sin. I was married in Russia where I had to have a civil ceremony, which the state recognized. We were also married in the Church (Russian Orthodox) and that is the real marriage.
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 11:15 AM By Thomas
Ray, Did you pay $2,300 or did you get discount?
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 1:04 PM By Pax Christi
Looks like Bishop Andrus' brain somehow got addled that he couldn't discern what to render to Caesar's what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 5:04 PM By Gil
Let's see. That couple who ran out of wine, at Cana. As I understand it, this guy thinks they went to City Hall and got married first, and Mary brought her young Son to the second ceremony, where they were drinking and carousing.
I'm not sure where Adam and Eve went to make their union official, but I assume Bp. Andrus will tell me in next Sunday's sermon.
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Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 8:18 PM By Jenny
After reading through these comments, I am now appalled at all the hate that is contained in these comments. These people aught to be ashamed of themselves. Where do they get all this hatred?
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:31 AM By Central Valley
Eileen, 2500.00 is a sad price to put on a Sacrament. Look around the diocese of Fresno and see how much some pastors are scamming for quincinerras.
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:07 AM By Ray
:)Thomas, we paid the priest 500 roubles, which is about $20. Still it was a very elaborate ceremony that lasted an hour and a half. The price was for the priest services and singers. There really is no set price for this and other sacraments, but only pay what a person can afford. This helps the priest out as that many of them are married and have kids. Eastern Church allows thier priest to be married.
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 10:20 AM By sonojim
Jenny - I share your shock at the hatred contained in many of the posts on this "Catholic" site. While I do read most of the stories published here as a way to keep up on the traditionalist perspective, I stopped honoring the ignorance and evil that is spewed forth by so many "Christians" (including at least one man called to Orders) by reading and participating in their hate-filled ramblings. Hatred and evil have but one source and it cannot be be disguised by those claiming to be "real Catholics". I wonder if the Rites of Exorcism can be adapted for the digital age.
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 11:36 AM By John L. Sillasen
sonojim, maybe you're the one to hear God's confession?
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:50 PM By Grisha
Ray -I take you got married in Soviet times?
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 1:05 PM By Grisha
Jenny and Sonojim: I consider a "traditional" Catholic to be a baptized person who recites and believes the Creeds and the renewal of their baptismal promises. One thing I do notice here is that not a lot of people talk about their parishes. You can of course keep the true faith without Catholic community, the most recent example being Ingrid Bentencourt, however, it seems to me that our tradition says that the best and usual way to practice is in communion with fellow Catholics led by ordained or commissioned individuals. I don't think the Internet is really a good substitute.
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:02 PM By Blessed are the Poor
Priests bless cars, animals and dog houses too. I don't recall ever paying $2300 for those blessings, but I didn't require an organist or wedding coordinator. Maybe that's the difference. As Jesus said to his disciples, "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God." Who needs money to be blessed?
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:05 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, the problem with the word, "believe" is that even the devil believes in God.
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 2:25 PM By betty
When I was looking around for a church for my daughter's wedding, one priest told me to bring a blank checjk, to make sure that I signed it and he wouold fill in the amount after the ceremony was over. Some people said that he took a look at the clothes the wedding party wore and at the elaborate flower arrangements, music etc. and decided how much they should pay him for his efforts on the theory that if they could afford to pay that much for clothes, flowers, music, etc. they could surely afford to pay him a handsome sum too.
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:38 PM By Maria C
Eileen you are so negative that your mind and views of the church are pretty unrealistic. What planet do you come from? I have never heard of charging. Your posts do not help with the good cause, it only makes you look more pro homo and sick to me. no pun intended. Betty what made you want to post such slander as well? Are you pro gay mock marraiges as well?
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Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 9:41 PM By John L. Sillasen
A priest once told us how he celebrated a wedding and the embarrassing check he received for it. The families were wealthy, the wedding was held at the home, there was a full orchestra, and the finest of trappings and accomodations. His check was 50 bucks.
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Posted Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:20 AM By Grisha
John L: That's why the Apostle's and Nicene creeds are more than a single sentence.
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Posted Sunday, July 13, 2008 8:39 AM By grisha
Our problem is that our pastor is so adamant about not even appearing to "sell the sacrament" that he won't let us , even informally, put out any guidelines. That works out OK for example with a 20 year old Marine corporal about to ship over to the Sandbox and his college student bride. However, we've had couples in their 30's, well established economically who have had to ask around "What's and appropriate gift for both Father and the Church?" I don't like flat fees for either the priest's service or use of the Church and the parish hall, but suggesting some kind of a ballpark zone, depending on one's situation, seems entirely reasonable.
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Posted Sunday, July 13, 2008 6:09 PM By JPeterman
The Episcopalians need to just get out of the "church" business. C'mon my Episcopal friends, give it up, turn the lights off and come home to the Catholic Church. Your "church" is based on a man who wanted a divorce. That's not much to build on. Give it up and come home.
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Posted Monday, July 14, 2008 7:23 AM By Ray
Grisha-No it was in 2006.
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Posted Monday, July 14, 2008 11:58 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, what do you mean they're more than a single sentence? Not the way I rattle them off :)
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