|
Published: March 3, 2009
“We are losing ground”
Number of Traditional Latin Masses available in Los Angeles archdiocese shrinks
(Editor's Note: This story has been corrected from its original version thanks to readers who provided us with more accurate information, which you can see below in the "Comments" section.)
Of the 4.2 million Catholics in the Los Angeles archdiocese, those who want to attend an extraordinary rite Latin Mass have fewer options available to them with the recent demolition of St. John Vianney Chapel on the downtown campus of the former Daniel Murphy High School.
While the archdiocesan web site still lists St. John Vianney’s as offering a Tridentine Latin Mass every fourth and fifth Sunday of the month, the archdiocesan newspaper The Tidings reported Feb. 20, “After 72 years of near continuous use, St. John Vianney Chapel on Third and Detroit Streets in Los Angeles has closed. The last Mass in the chapel was celebrated by Auxiliary Bishop Edward Clark on Feb. 8. The following day the work of dismantling the chapel began.”
 Citing “a decade-long decline in enrollment combined with increased operating costs” and the “severe financial challenges” it faces, the Los Angeles archdiocese announced in October 2007 that it would close Daniel Murphy High School. In an Oct. 8, 2007 archdiocesan news release, the “severe financial challenges” were not spelled out -- but the archdiocese had already said it would sell as many as 50 non-parish properties to cover its up to $373-million portion of a $660-million settlement with victims of molestation by priests. Now that the Daniel Murphy property has been sold, St. John Vianney Chapel had to be taken down before the site was turned over to its new owner. The school held its final commencement ceremony on May 30, 2008.
“Our (former Indult) community is now down to one Traditional Mass on the first Sunday of every month at 10 a.m. at the Claretian Dominguez Hills chapel with Fr. Robert Bishop, C.M.F.,” wrote Vicki Peters, vice president of Una Voce Los Angeles in a Feb. 13 email to Una Voce Los Angeles members. “In the Los Angeles Archdiocese, we are losing ground instead of gaining it. As many of you may know, one parish (St. Peter Chanel, Hawaiian Gardens) has already suffered the loss of the Traditional Mass shortly after its desired and welcomed inception. In only two parishes in all of Los Angeles Archdiocese is the Traditional Mass offered on a regular Sunday basis; there is still no daily Traditional Mass, nor regular Holy Day Masses or Traditional Sacraments available.”
The archdiocesan web site also incorrectly lists Santa Teresita Hospital Chapel in Duarte as offering the traditional Latin Mass every second Sunday of the month. “The Latin Mass at Santa Teresita Hospital has also been discontinued,” says the Una Voce web site.
With Santa Teresita and St. John Vianney out of the picture, those seeking an extraordinary rite Mass in the nation’s largest Catholic diocese now have the following options:
Mission San Buenaventura, 211 East Main St., Ventura
Every Sunday, 1:30 p.m.
Saints Peter & Paul parish, 515 W. Opp St., Wilmington
Every Sunday, 6:30 a.m., and every Third Sunday, 9:30 a.m. (sung high Mass)
St. Therese Parish, 510 N. El Molino St., Alhambra
Every Sunday, 1 p.m.
Thomas Aquinas College, 10000 N. Ojai Road, Santa Paula
Every Sunday, 7:30 a.m., every Saturday, 7:30 a.m., weekdays 7 a.m.
“Please continue to pray for the work of Una Voce International and Una Voce America (especially the Los Angeles chapter) to be successful in worldwide efforts to educate others about the Traditional Mass, and that one day very soon all the bishops of the world will be truly in union with the Pope, and with him, restore the Mass of the Ages to all Catholics everywhere who desire it,” said Peters in her email to Una Voce members. “Please add to your prayers Una Voce Los Angeles chapter's special intention that Cardinal Mahony's heart will be changed for the good of all (before his retirement) and that he will soon welcome traditional orders such as the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter into our archdiocese.”
Under the heading “Tridentine Masses,” the archdiocesan web site makes the following observations: “According to the recent motu proprio of Pope Benedict XVI, permission is granted to any priest to celebrate the Tridentine (Latin) Mass privately or for the benefit of a parish group that requests it. The Tridentine Mass is also celebrated publicly in several locations in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles for the benefit of those who have a strong affinity to this exceptional rite of the Mass, while accepting the validity of the Novus Ordo,” but also warns, “The Tridentine Mass is also offered elsewhere in the region by groups that call themselves Catholic but which are not in communion with the Holy See.” The archdiocesan web site includes a clickable pdf file with the text of Summorum pontificum.
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:18 AM By Bob
During the Religious Education Congress in 2006, Cardinal Mahony stated that, "For a small slice of Church history, Latin was the language of (the) Mass." And just this weekend, at the same venue, Cardinal Mahony is quoted stating, "The Tridentine Mass was meant for those who could not make the transition from Latin to English [or other languages] after the Council. But there is no participation by the people, and I don't believe that instills the spirit of Christ among us."
It seems the cardinal doesn't know his Church history very well since at least by the middle of the 4th Century, Latin was the liturgical language of the western Church.
I wouldn't hold out for any changes in the LA Archdiocese while the Cardinal is in-residence.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:52 AM By Boots
Not surprising that the TLM would be so minimal in a diocese led by someone so outwardly hostile to tradition. Should be fun this weekend, Mahony is dedicating the new chapel at Thomas Aquinas, but the first Mass there (other than the dedication itself) will be TLM.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:23 AM By JLS
I wonder how many Tridentine Masses are celebrated in Vatican City.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:13 AM By june v
With Cardinal Mahoney as the head of the LA diocese it does not surprise me that these things are happening. I pray for the Holy Father every night that he may enforce the laws of the church and rid it of any who would not follow him.
I live in a diocese, Stockton, where the Bishop seems to be totally unaware of the Summorum ponticum. To my knowledge there is only one Tridentine Mass in the diocese and it is in the southern most part with nothing in between.
We must all pray very hard for the bishops and priests.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:14 AM By meg f.
Of course they are!! The number of TLM's is shrinking, because they are getting no support from their Bishop, who is known to be very negative regarding the Latin Masses. No surprise there.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 8:30 AM By Janek
No surprise here. Cardinal Mahony is unfriendly toward the Traditional Latin Mass, always has been. He wants his dancing nuns, Life Teen Masses, Kool-aid pitchers instead of gold and silver, clown Masses, Gay Masses, Mariachi instead of Gregorian Chant. Pray for the return of the Traditional Latin Mass to all of our altars in L.A. and around the world beginning in St. Peters Basilcia. And pray for our Holy Father Benedict the XVI. He is under a blistering attack from within and outside the Roman Catholic Church.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:10 AM By Annie
Is it any wonder that the Tridentine Mass is shrinking in L.A. archdiocese. Recently during a question and answer forum, the Cardinal responded to a question about the Latin Mass. He said, in essence, that the Latin Mass is for people who can't accept the English (or any other vernacular) Mass, and they are people who don't want to participate! We must pray for our bishops that they will all begin to appreciate the beauty and solemnity of the Tridentine Rite, and be awakened to its benefit, allowing it to be offered in many parishes, and perhaps even establishing a Tridentine Rite parish, as Sacramento and San Diego diocese have already done. This may also serve to bring back so many Catholics who left because of the casual way Mass has been celebrated, to say nothing of the trite songs used almost everywhere. ALL of the music needed for the Latin Rite (and which can also be used at a Mass in the vernacular) is available FREE online. What a savings to parishes who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year of so-called music, if they would bring back the beauty of the chant and polyphonic music of past centuries.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:13 AM By Rick DeLano
Please NOTE:
The listing for the Little Sisters of the Poor is also incorrect. That one was also withdrawn, as another example of the generosity with which the Pope's motu proprio has been implemented in this Archdiocese.
The editor replies: Thank you for the updated information. Our original story has been edited to reflect the change.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:52 AM By John F. Maguire
Relative deprivation though it is, the deprivation of the right of Catholics to access to the traditional Latin Mass is an objective wrong that needs to be rectified by local ordinaries. We should be witnessing progress in this matter, not regression.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:55 AM By Vicki Peters
I had no idea my email would end up quoted on California Catholic Daily. Two errors in your story noted. First sentence should read "Of the 4.2 million Catholics in the Los Angeles Archdiocese who want to attend the Extraordinary...." It would be an awesome thing to have 4.2 million Catholics in L.A. desiring to attend the Traditional Mass! Second, the Traditional Mass is also no longer available at Little Sisters of the Poor in San Pedro. The editor replies: Thank you for the grammatical and factual corrections. Our writer tried without success to reach Una Voce before we published the story, which is why we chose instead to use your widely circulated e-mail. Thank you again for setting the record straight.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:59 AM By Joshua
Thomas Aquinas College has the TLM every day. I served it, trained servers, and attended it everyday. Before the Motu proprio it was the 2nd Sunday, not third. Please get your facts straight!
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:02 AM By Joshua
I should add that the archdiocesan website has not been updated in years on years. Going back to at least 2002 Thomas Aquinas College was every second Sunday and has had daily Mass since Oct 1 2007 according to the 1962 Missal. There are also other parishes offering it. This article might be misleading, since not every place wears it on their sleeve (I know a few that have it, but are quiet about it)
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:06 AM By Grisha
Hey what about us? W/ all the fighting about whether those who like the Tridentine mass are being sufficiently served goes on, how many opportunities are there to hear Today's Mass in the Latin language in any diocese. I have to go the Our Lady of Lourdes in St. Petersburg Russia to find one
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:19 AM By hollingsworth
"but the archdiocese had already said it would sell as many as 50 non-parish properties to cover its up to $373-million portion of a $660-million settlement with victims of molestation by priests. "
There's your reason right there. The cardinal/archbishop has plunged the diocese into financial and liturgical ruin. And the faithful sheeple just keep taking it.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:48 AM By JLS
Grisha, there is one in Orange County every sunday at the Norbertine Abby ... only a few hours drive for you (ok, you could make the round trip in less than 20 hours, less if by air).
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 11:54 AM By Patrick
This article is off-base. I think it is misleading to say the traditional movement has lost ground. Just because there are fewer locations for the Latin Mass, doesn't mean things haven't improved under the Motu Proprio. The Indult model, especially as implemented in Los Angeles, was never a workable situation. Rotating Mass locations from chapel to chapel every week was a disaster. It never allowed for the creation of a community and the quality of the Indult services was pretty marginal, to be charitable. One might think that if a bishop were to set about a way to quash or destroy any attachment to the Latin Mass, moving it to different places and times every week would be a sure way to do it. We are very fortunate now to have the Mass at St. Therese every Sunday, with a beautiful choir and many altar boys who now know what they are doing, and of course, a fine priest, usually Fr. Bishop. It would be great to see this model implemented in a dozen more churches in the archdiocese. Perhaps that will come once a new bishop is in office. For now, we should continue to be grateful for and build up the Latin Mass communities at St. Therese, St. Peter & Paul, or Ventura.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 1:21 PM By Gilad
I don't think havin many Holy Mass at various places is a good thing(TLM)! We should be more interested in formin communities, where we can have fellowship as well as gettin to know one another, that share the same aspirations about the TLM! I like the idea that when I go to TLM there is someone I know there and can have a friendly conversation or go have fellowship at a nearby eatry! God has Bless LA with the TLM every Sunday, what more can we ask for other than havin our own Parish with TLM every Day! Built TLM communities!!!
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 2:25 PM By Jimmy Mac
The Lord moves in mysterious way, His wonders to behold!
The Spirit is speaking ... are any of you listening?
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 4:29 PM By Vicki Peters
Dear Patrick,
You comment "...and the quality of the Indult services was pretty marginal, to be charitable." Perhaps the choir was not as good as St. Therese's, but they sang from their heart, and did their best. I think God was pleased, even if you weren't. My five sons have served with Fr. Bishop for close to 20 years and four of them trained our servers over the years. Fr. Bishop considers our servers to be of high caliber. He has asked my sons to serve at St. Therese with him, but we are spread thin as it is, and the afternoon time of the Mass undermines our family life, and only day of rest. With the Indult Mass we had morning time Masses, though never on the third Sunday, and as you know at different locations (purposely done, of course). We now attend 7am Mass at a location in the Diocese of Orange on three Sundays of the month, and my last two sons will be serving there soon and training servers.. My 20yos trained the servers at St. Therese for six months and got them off the ground. He also trained the servers at St. Peter Chanel. Fr. Bishop is the priest that you now have at St. Therese only because of his beneficence. I hope you did not mean to include Father in your criticism. Offering two Traditional Masses every Sunday has caused him much extra work, and at his age this is also making a difference in his health. Una Voce L.A. paid for the pastor at St. Therese to attend the FSSP training. He wanted to offer the Mass himself, then decided against doing so. How very sad. Fr. Bishop offering Mass at St. Therese also helped in the break up of our Indult community. I hope you appreciate what you have been given.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 5:12 PM By Smiter
Forming a TLM community is the best option - wherever they can be supported. I think that if this happened, people would flock in droves to be a part of such a parish. I know that I would and I am only 45 years old - raised in the Novus Ordo style.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 6:57 PM By Life Lady
Hey, prayer, prayer and more prayer is the answer. San Diego prayed, offered sacrifice after sacrifice, and this hard core group did not go away, and would not be driven out, no matter how little we were given by way of a place to have our mass (the lovely Catholic Cemetary of our fair city) until we now have our beloved parish St. Anne's. The choir there is not as good as others I have heard, but belenve me, we have a new director, and an even more determined agenda to make our mass shine, and our people come to services, day or night. Twenty-three years, folks, twenty-three years, and we would not be moved, not when they tried to intimidate us out of the cemetary, and not when they tried to coddle us with going to a parish that did not want us. Pray, fast, offer rosaries, write to your bishops, and call them "Dearest Father" because like it or not, they are your shepherds, and griping about that does not help, but love them, YES, love them, and seek their generosity. You never get anywhere with negativity. Love conquers all, and with God everything is possible.
|
Posted Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:28 PM By cjo
Cardinal Mahony has been hostile to tradition for a long time..as anyone can recognize from his munipulation of the Novus Ordo into 'something hard to recognize'. And he has been particularly hostile to the Traditional Mass as has been demonstrated many times. We need a new Archbishop asap, but in the meantime, in additon to prayer, we need action. Let us all petiton the Pope/Vatican for help and let's get ORGANIZED.
|
Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:11 AM By Paul G
The Latin Mass in Ventura was so cool even if kind of glitchy sometimes......still, it was great to have such a beautiful Mass downtown and then head into the surf for a late afternoon session and a west swell. I hope that Rite is verrrry firmly rooted in the northern reaches of the Archdiocese.....and may it ever remain!
|
Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:53 AM By David
I hate to throw a wet rag on all the outrage, but I suggest there is a different reason that there are not a lot of TLM masses. Several months after Summorum Pontificum was promulgated I did a poll of roughly 20 priests from different parishes throughout Los Angeles to find out what kind of response had come from their parishioners. In effect, how much interest was there in the TLM. Only one out of that group had even been asked if a Latin mass was going to be said at their parish, but it was clear the person asking wasn't in favor of the idea. The rest of the priests said that no one had even approached them on the subject. I know that this was not a scientific poll or anything, but it does suggest that there just does not seem to be a large up-swelling of Catholics who are interested in the Latin rite.
|
Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:21 AM By JLS
There has always been a large number of "one time" visitors to the Latin Mass I have attended for more than a decade. The word is out, but not all that many people apparently desire it as a part of the parish. "It is easier to go along to get along" seems to be the operating principle.
|
Posted Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:37 PM By Lila
I hate to throw a wet rag on a the person who threw the wet rag on this argument, but I'm a parishoner in Los Angeles and I was PROHIBITED from speaking to my priest or the parish about having a Latin Mass. When I inquired with the parish office I was told that I wouldn't be allowed to speak to the priest on this topic, that I was in no way allowed to post anything in the bulletin asking if other parishoners were interested, and that I should (and this is a direct quote) "drop the topic because it's an outdated way of thinking and no one wants a Latin Mass and no one is interested anyway."
So I have to wonder how many other people like me are discouraged from even bringing up the topic.
|
Posted Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:46 PM By David
Dear Lila,
I'm sorry that you were treated so poorly. Any parishioner should be able to speak to her/his priest without giving any information about the subject of the conversation. Let me encourage you to call the parish office again and ask for an appointment without giving any further information than "It's private, thanks." As for how many were discouraged by similar such tactics, I have no idea. All I can say is that I had no trouble getting through and asking my question to the priests I asked in my post above. Again, I am sorry you were treated so poorly.
|
Posted Friday, March 06, 2009 8:10 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
David,
Instead of asking the Mahony priests, why didn't you ask the "vox populi", the faithful themselves?
I attend a Tridentine Parish, and we see more and more new young couples every week.
I wish all of you who complain, would have joined us last weekend as we prayerfully demonstrated and passed out information to those attending the Cardinal's REC. Had we of had more help, we could have reached far more confused Catholics with the truth.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth Fisher
|
Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 2:42 PM By Time & Again
So many laity so open and eager, but so many clergy so closed and turned-off. This is the LA diocese. Its also a sign of all the other US dioceses too! The thought of offering the TLM is tightly regulated to the point that it is choked and that is against the soft will of BXVIth. Our only options are to pray, pray, and pray until the TLM is restored and plentiful, not just in the LA diocese, but all the other dioceses in these United States.
|
Posted Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:40 PM By dacatholicbandorgan
My self and a group of people are working on getting the Tridentine Mass weekly at St.Dorothys in Glendora. 8-10 Miles east of Santa Teresita hospital.
|
© California Catholic Daily 2009. All Rights Reserved.
|