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Published: March 4, 2008
“Required by California law”
Appeals court restricts right of parents to homeschool, orders Los Angeles family to put children in public or private school
 May any parent legally homeschool children in California? Last week, a state appellate court said no. A unanimous three-judge panel ruled that California law lays down specific circumstances under which homeschooling is permitted, and not all parents meet the requirements.
The case involved a Los Angeles-area family with eight children that came to the attention of the Los Angeles County Department of Children and Family Services after one of the children reported “physical and emotional mistreatment by the children’s father,” according to a summary of the case in the Feb. 28 opinion issued by the California 2nd District Court of Appeal in Los Angeles. When Children and Family Services discovered that the children were being homeschooled, an attorney representing two of the children asked the juvenile court to order that the children be enrolled in a public or private school. The trial court refused, citing the parents’ right under the California Constitution to homeschool their children.
The trial court judge’s refusal came despite his “opinion that the home schooling the children were receiving was ‘lousy,’ ‘meager,’ and ‘bad,’ and despite the court’s opinion that keeping the children at home deprived them of situations where (1) they could interact with people outside the family, (2) there are people who could provide help if something is amiss in the children’s lives, and (3) they could develop emotionally in a broader world than the parents’ ‘cloistered’ setting,” said the appellate court decision. The opinion was written by Justice H. Walter Croskey, who was joined by justices Joan D. Klein and Patti S. Kitching.
The attorney representing the children appealed the lower court’s decision, arguing that the judge’s refusal to order school attendance was an “abuse of discretion.” While overturning the judge’s ruling, the appellate court found instead that his refusal was “an error of law.”
“It is clear to us that enrollment and attendance in a public full time day school is required by California law for minor children unless,” said the appellate court, “(1) the child is enrolled in a private full-time day school and actually attends that private school, (2) the child is tutored by a person holding a valid state teaching credential for the grade being taught, or (3) one of the other few statutory exemptions to compulsory public school attendance (Ed. Code, § 48220 et seq.) applies to the child.”
The fact that the children were enrolled in an umbrella school, Sunland Christian School, is insignificant, said the court, because the mother does not have a teacher’s credential, Sunland is not a public charter school, and the Education Code does not provide for “independent study” through private schools. The fact that the parents say they homeschool for religious reasons does not excuse them from California’s compulsory education laws, said the court.
The Virginia-based Home School Legal Defense Association would not comment on the case (which does not involve one of their clients). A spokesman said the group has the case under study. In a March 3 statement, however, HSLDA President J. Michael Smith said nothing has changed in California regarding homeschooling. “HSLDA maintains that the advice we give homeschool families is accurate and that filing a private school affidavit, or enrollment in a private school independent study program (I.S.P) is a valid option under the law in California,” Smith said. “We will be examining this situation and providing a detailed analysis of this court decision in the near future.”
Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:30 AM By Fr. M.P.
Catholic teaching indicates that the parents have the right to educate their children. We see here the bullying of secular government. Of course home-schooling shields the children things like state-sponsored sex education and homosexual propaganda.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 9:56 AM By Linn M
This is very scary indeed.I just wonder how long it will be before other states start following the same path.I live in ultra liberal Washington state and they already do a lot of things here that are very unconstitutional I guess it's time to start looking for a more homeschool friendly state.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:25 AM By Innocent III
What if Dad owns a shotgun? Is homeschooling permissible in that "specific circumstance"? No, I'm NOT advocating violence, but what if someone comes on my property (with or without warrant) and insists on taking my kid away to have their soul destroyed in the public school system? At any rate, I'm with Linn M: start looking for a more conservative state, and pray that this sort of thing doesn't become universal.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:50 AM By Grisha
Christopher ~ The Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:25 AM By Innocent III is exactly the knid of thing I'm afraid of. The more I see of history, the more I think Hobbes had a popint.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:27 AM By Betty
The article says that one of the children reported physical and emotional abuse by the children's father but this could be anything from a slap on the wrist or he yelled at her for not getting his/her homework done. I have heard of cases where a social worker heard complaints from a child about anything and moved right ahead to try to arrange a way to take the child away. Of course there are authentic cases of physical abuse by parents, as I'm sure some of you will tell me and nobody wants to take chances with a child's safety but there have also been instances of children who were taken away peremptorily without notice to the parents as to where they were being taken and it is entirely possible that a decision was made hastily and without much real consideration about what happens to children who are suddenly moved away from their parents and sometimes into an even worse situation.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:29 AM By chrysd
This is obviously wrong. Why don't the homeschoolers in California pout together a class action lawsuit or something for discrimination? Why don't we have an ethics charge against them? I don't believe the Constitution says a judge may make up whatever he/she wants. When they do, I DO BELIEVE the Constitution
gives us the availability to kick the bums out.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:22 PM By Heather
I think that the real problem here is that we are having our parental rights to decide what is best for our children taken away, slowly, but surely. It has happened so quietly, that we have hardly noticed. We need to make sure that the people that we are voting in (especially this year!) are people that will stand up for the rights of the parents and the rights of the family. No one is saying that you can't live your life the way you want, but then why can't we? Why can't we decide what is best for our child???
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:27 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
I would hope you would feel more afraid of government attempts to intrude on the inalienable rights of the family. How do you expect people to react to tyranny? If you fear how they will react, then inveigh against the cause, not the effect. If you fear violence, join with those who would oppose the state's social engineering. The real threat is not the man with the shotgun but the power that controls the courts and the police and that recognizes no restraints save what it places on itself. Overreaching government, like all violence, breeds violence, for it pushes men to desperation.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:51 PM By John Andersen
Heather: Your concerns are well-stated. Unfortunately, Californians continue to elect highly liberal people to office at all levels of government. Parents and taxpayers need to start electing conservative Christians to their local school boards -- even if you homeschool or can afford private. Californians need to quite electing highly liberal politicians like Kuhl, Levine, and Chu who are intent in bringing on a new moral order. Parents and voters have simply been "too busy" raising their families while "social-engineering" politicians and judges have been hard at work. We can start sending a new message by signing the marriage ammendment (out now), and signing the repeal of SB777 when it comes out in a month. THEN VOTE on these in November, and get your friends and neighbors to vote. We need to start sending a message. The harder job is to start getting honorable Christians to run for office. (P.S. The CA Ed Code says that parents are to be the decision makers as to what gets taught in schools. Unfortuantely, one non-parent (Khul) has had more to say about what gets taught in public schools than all parents combined!)
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:40 PM By Grisha
Christopher ~ I would hope you would agree that inalienable family rights are not absolute and that at some point society has a right, and obligation to intervene. In recent history, we’ve seen families and groups of families, sometimes informed by religious beliefs, sometimes by their understanding of natural law or a political philosophy, where such intervention was necessary. The Branch Dividians and Randy Weaver come to mind as do the Freemen and those parents who freely took their children to Jonestown. The courts and police in this country do, and are required to, recognize restraints beyond what they place on themselves. These are the constitution and a body of statute laws developed under a system of checks and balances.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 3:56 PM By Aunt
I think it's a good idea, my bother's kids 4 out of six are being homeschooled and every reason the judge had applies to them. Plus they are all skinny and under strict control of their parents. They have no thoughts out side their mom's view. Family is often regulated, to limited contact. You can hardly talk to the two middle children as they have no communication skills. I never hear about what they are learning, like I do from sister's kids who go to school. There is noone checking on these kids. The mother hasn't been to college, and has two under 3 years. Where's the time to teach??? Everything trip to the store can be used as a lesson according to her.. Homeschoolers need to admit that there are rotton apples everywhere. They have had no testing that the state has required ect...
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 4:07 PM By John L. Sillasen
Congress can do a legislative set aside, a Constitutional act, to cut back the judicial system. But they don't. Why? In other words the Congress can delete as many of these courts as they so choose ... by merely signing the order. The right of these courts to exist is not up to the Supreme Court, but up to Congress.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:09 PM By Liberty
Society will eventually come down to the governmet imposing it's own set of values upon our children by force. California is now effectively a communist state with regard to this matter. The public school system was modeled after the German model in the earlier part of the 20th century. That model was put in place by the Nazi's to be an "educational" arm of the government to indoctrinate the young of "Deutchland" with the mind-sets and moral doctrines of a fascist regime. Anyone who believes anything less that this is currently happening in our schools is a sheep. At some point, the doctrine of civil disobedience will become ever more important a virtue for our children to learn. It will mean their very survival on some vital levels. Civil disobedience to fascist government (see: California legislature) is the very fiber upon which the liberty of our nation was built. He who does not remember his history is doomed to repeat it. Wake up and embrace the true spirit of Patriotism. Of the PEOPLE. For the PEOPLE. By the PEOPLE.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 6:36 PM By Donna Cwik
This is just another example of what is on the horizon. Yes, as a Catholic it is our right to educate our children. Little by little the our rights as parent's are being taken away. The justice system in our country is in reverse, it is against the good and for the bad, there are so many examples of that.
We are left with and actually have alway had, the power of personal prayer, and having Masses said, this is our best defense.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:24 PM By Momof 3
Aunt: What you say can also apply to public school children. We have been homechooling for 8.5 years (Secular), and our children are far ahead academically than their public school friends. Not only at the ages of 11 and 13 are they taking classes at the local college, but they are by far more social and outgoing ( both are into golf ,tennis, swimming, tae Kwondo, music classes, and computer classes) than the other children in our neighborhood ( their primary activity being staying in the house playing video games). It's unfair of you to take one family and attribute their experience to ALL homeschoolers. Just as it's unfair for homeschoolers to condemn all Public School education. I do think that MANY in the Hsing community are calling " the sky is falling " when it comes to this issue though. We all need to keep cool heads and wait till a final ruling comes out.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:31 PM By Michelle
There are good and bad homeschoolers, just as there are good and bad teachers, lawyers, police, etc. The real issue is that Christians tend to think that "turn the other cheek" means to sit back and not fight for our rights. We are the minority, in California, and in the US. But, that does not mean that we are helpless. We need to voice our disagreement with this judgement. Sitting back will not ensure that we have the right to homeschool. We need to protest. We need to nominate politicians that support our goals. Lets show our children what this country is really about, and what the cost of freedom is!
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:37 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
By definition, inalienable rights are absolute. Again, you bring up extreme examples that go far beyond the pale of what the article is about. Certainly there are some cases where it is clear beyond the shadow of a doubt that a parent has, by his acts, abandoned or abdicated his authority. But these are extreme cases -- a clear threat to life and limb. In such cases, even individuals would have the right to intervene. But the right to educate belongs to the family prior to any notion of state authority -- and the right to educate implies the authority to choose the means of education, the way in which it is done, and when it's done. The state can not interfere in this without usurping an authority which it does not possess. Such an usurpation is by definition tyrannical.
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:47 PM By Elaine
Folks, if you are concerned about your rights as parents being taken away, I strongly urge you to check out the website parentalrights.org. It is a website devoted to protecting us from losing control over any input into our children's lives via the UN's convention on the rights of the child. If the U.S, signs this treaty as it now stands, we are in a very grave situation indeed!
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 7:57 PM By Angelo
Donna Cwik, I absolutley agree with all you said. I'm going
to be quoting your words to others. There is something I will
add.
Pope Benedict XVl early in his Pontificate said, "Those who
battle the unjust, in order to end injustice, is an act of charity."
As former President Ronald Reagen would say, "Its time to
take our Nation back."
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Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 8:35 PM By Sue
Home education is a proven mode of education in the United States and has proven to be exceptional for my children. The education they have received at home in their “cloistered environment” has been a great foundation for their future successes. One child has already graduated from a public university with a 3.96 GPA and teaching as a certified special education teacher in a public school and the other is a sophomore in college presently with a 4.00 GPA. Eliminating home education is a huge mistake by California courts. If they can make home education illegal by judicial decision, how can they not deal with illegal aliens? California voters need to make their voice heard in the upcoming election or who knows what will be banned next while other obvious illegal behavior is ignored.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:10 AM By Kristin
This is frightful! I love Calif, but I will move if homeschooling becomes outlawed. Just because 1 family messed up means the rest of us who are doing a great job have to pay for it. There are plenty of children in school that are beaten daily by children in school, teachers etc. There are pemty of children who are molested by teachers and class mates. But you do not hear about the school closing down or the rights to go to public school taken away. There is a new case of a vice-principle molesting a 13 year old right now going on. But the school is still up and running.
Where did we start to loose control of raising our own kids. I agree, we homeschoolers have to STAND up for our rights. I'm not exactly sure what to do, but the first thing I will do is join hsdla. There are more cases of kids graduating with high honors from college that are homschooled then there are cases of mis-conduct from a homeschooler. We need to pray for our state daily and our country for the right president!
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:13 AM By Grisha
Christopher ~ Child abuse and child neglect are by definition extreme. Innocent III fantasizing about a standoff with a shotgun right here on a Catholic forum seems pretty beyond the pale to me. We know little about the details of the case. Current law in all (I think) states provide an obligation for parents to educate their Children. In the discussion here, we've heard reports of successful and unsuccessful home schooling. The question in my mind is ought parents be able to not send their children to school, do anything they want, and call it "Home schooling?"
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:00 AM By Lisa
I'm wondering if the kids were so "cloistered" in their homeschool environment how one of the children reported to the social workers their grievences in the first place? Where and when did this happen?
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:01 AM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
What do you mean by child abuse and neglect? The state of California means by these terms -- whatever it wishes to mean, since its parameters are vague, ranging from true physical abuse to providing too little affection. If you think every form of child abuse and neglect is extreme, potentially inviting state intervention, then you must conclude that the family has no authority but what the state grants it. The family is merely the state-designated caretaker of children. But, if the right and duty of education lies with parents, and this right preexists the state, the state has nothing to do with the education of children, save provide means parents can access to educate their children. It may not force a course of study, it may not require attendance at any school -- in other words, it may not compel parents in the area of education. It hasn't the authority by nature. The state is not the guarantor of the rights of children. Indeed, some families might fail. But, then, the state might fail, too -- and by all indications from the public schools, it has failed. Abominably.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:39 AM By ted
For those who want more background on the family: http://www.fearnotlaw.com/articles/article15598.html
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:50 AM By Grisha
Christopher ~ If you are taking the position that society has no right to require parents to educate their children e.g. that whether they do so or not is totally at their discretion that's of course your right. However, do you believe you have a Catholic basis for your thinking? I don't see it. Also, if you believe the definitions are too broad and vague, beyond sexual abuse, physical abuse (way beyond spanking) and withholding necessities, what general types of treatment do you believe society has a right to prevent parents from doing to their children?
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:04 AM By Grisha
Chrsitopher ... Just to be clear and answer your question, I believe that refusing to educate ones children constitutes neglect.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:20 AM By RR
Aunt: Not all homeschooling families are like your brother's. Seems to me there are far more issues there than homeschooling. Your idea of a homeschooling family is way off and I know other homeschoolers will agree with what I'm about to say. To start with, my family is kindof chubby(not too bad) because we eat while we homeschool, while in our pj's. I wish my kids had my thoughts because I would never have a single worry. My kids are around so many other family members on both my husband's side and mine that it drives me crazy. My two middle kids talk so much to people that at times I want to tell them to be quiet for 2 minutes, but they would fail. I hear what other public school children say they are learning and I want my kids to be no part of that, since it is sinful or immoral. As far as nobody checking on the kids; they check on each other and tell me all the bad things the other one is doing. I have one year of college under my belt, but no degree. But then again, I can cook a meal without ever having been to cooking school either. My husband has a Masters Degree in Engineering. I taught my kids to walk and talk. No school did that. Aside from homeschooling, I babysit a 3 yr. old and her 9 month old baby brother. There is 24 hrs. in a day to teach. Kids can learn a lot from going to the store. There is so much more you need to learn about homeschooling than you know. People like Aunt are really uneducated about homeschooling and it shows because people usually question things that they don't understand. People who send there kids to school need to admit that there are some really rotten schools and teachers out there and bad things being taught to there kids. By the way Aunt, I homeschool a 7, 9, & 14 yr. old. I have one in a public high school getting top grades and will go off to college next fall. Next fall the 14 yr. old will be in All advanced study classes and I'd bettcha my kids would score higher than your kids on any test scores!
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:55 AM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
Do you think only the refusal to educate is neglect, or is the failure to provide what the state would deem a substandard education also neglect? What if a parent does not teach every subject that the state says should be taught -- or teaches subjects in a time frame the state does not accept? Further, is the refusal to educate children the only form of neglect in your mind?
"Society" may only intervene in the family if there is a clear violation of rights in the family. What I mean by "clear" is "not susceptible of any interpretation save that the parents have committed acts that, by their very nature, are so egregious that they constitute an abrogation of parental authority." Examples of such behavior would be, of course, murder, but also grave bodily injury, and sexual abuse. Such acts would justify intervention by anyone, not just the state. Short of such abuse, the state has no authority over the family. I think we need to look on parental authority as analogous to any ruling authority; a foreign power may not enter another country simply because its government is not ruling as well as it should, or even is committing abuses that, while serious, are not grave enough to constitute an abrogation of authority. A policy justifying intervention on any lesser grounds we all, I think, would rightly see as essentially a denial of governmental authority and sovereignty. Likewise for government intrusions in the the family. As for what ecclesial basis I have for my ideas, I wrote about it on this web site, "A Great and Pernicious Error." You may read it at http://calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=e8999f5f-0f50-4c67-89ed-8aa3f2c8ad73
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:34 AM By Katherine
Wouldn't the sensible and generous solution to this famiy's problems be to help them heal with counseling (if there is indeed a need). The judgement did not site that there was danger to the children, otherwise they would have been removed from the parents' home. Why take the drastic approach, placing the children in a failed system (the public schools) where they are more likely to become functionally illiterate, have sub-standard math and writing skills, poor job skills, be subject to bullying, sexual harrasment, drug use and alcohol abuse? This is the reality at your local public school.
Grisha: You seem to equate homeschooling with no education. You are very misinformed. You need to educate yourself; get involved in the homeschool movement, meet some homeschooling families (who are very diverse).
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:01 PM By Grisha
Christopher ~ I can't provide you with a comprehensive list of what constitutes child abuse. We've gone back and forth about physical abuse but I certainly think, at some level, emotional abuse has to be included. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Generally, I think home schooling is a poor idea. Moreover if Catholic schools are available, I thank it's probably a very poor choice for Catholic families. NO - I don't believe that home schooling needs to mimic the State mandated curriculum with hours , credits etc. However, I'm reminded that in the 1970's when my mother was a school secretary in East L. A. She found that a 14 year old girl had been sent from Mexico to live with her uncle. She was doing "chores" in the morning, working in his taco stand across from the school during the day and doing more "chores" in the afternoon. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The uncle may have felt he was providing a form of home schooling. After all, you can learn a lot from household work, shopping (some math, basic chemistry, etc.) . and operating a fast food enterprise (more math, spoken English, time management, human relations etc.) but I think that kind of thing falls far below the minimal standard that has to be set. BTW ~ in home schooling your children, what kind of foreign language opprtunities are there?
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:08 PM By Grisha
Katherine ~ See my next post responding to CZ. My point is that with NO standards, no, or almost no, education can be passed off as homeschooling. Please be aware that I'm allready involved in the CATHOLIC school movement. In most cases, I believe parents will do far more for thier kids sending them there than to public schools or home schooling them.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 12:37 PM By John L. Sillasen
I read the link posted by ted. A sexually abusive situation for the kids ... but is the court using this case to launch a campaign by govt to outlaw home schooling?
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 1:04 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha,
The question is not whether you or anyone else approves of home schooling. The question is by what authority you or anyone else, including the state, can decide for children in a family. The argument that we need state supervision because families might abuse their rights begs the question, what do we do when the state abuses its rights? Authority has to stop somewhere. Foreign language opportunities? I know homeschooling children who are learning Latin, German, French, and Spanish. What's more, they learn to write and speak real English. The same is not the case for the students of our public school. Further, they know how to interact with adults, unlike teeanagers from public schools. As for Catholic schools, many areas in the Fresno diocese, for instance, have no local Catholic schools; and the ones there are are often too expensive for some parents. (Matters are different, by the way, in the much maligned diocese of Lincoln. Bishop Bruskewicz puts a priority on education. I stayed at a parish there a few years ago which had a school with free tuition for members of the parish. Lincoln has at least two traditional orders of sisters to help in the schooling, but also uses lay teachers.)
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 2:52 PM By Betty
Katherine, there is counseling and there is counseling. I hate to hear people advise counseling because I have seen some pretty awful counseling. Then again there is good counseling but sometimes I get the idea that some people think that counseling is the answer to every problem and counselors know more than parents do. (They're wrong about that one).
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:21 PM By Greg
Grisha- The majority of homeschool families provide a superior education versus public or private school facilities. Please see http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v7n8/ . There are many studies that demonstrate the point. Most homeschooling parents love their children and ensure that their children are being taught well, both academically and morally. You cannot use isolated incidents to base your decisions regarding your bias against homeschooling. Using this flawed logic, the government should shut down all public schools and colleges due to unsafe environments (shootings). In addition, perhaps they should close all Catholic schools due to isolated sexual abuse scandals.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:51 PM By Fred H
Grisha, you apparently don't know many homeschooling families. Younger children progress in vocabulary, grammar, and social maturity faster than their public schooled counterparts, partly because they are around their older siblings and parent most of the day. With computer programs, languages are no problem. My son learned to speak Polish and Russian well enough that some people he spoke with from those countries thought he was also a native (before getting into deep conversation of course). Most homeschooling families are not hermits living in a cave. They associate with other homeschooling families. Their social skills, communication skills, and ability to interact with adults are usually better than their public school peers. Homeschooling allows the students to progress at a pace that is suited for them and their abilities. Best of all, they can avoid the peer pressure of getting involved in sex, drugs, alcohol, foul language, criminal activity, etc., that can be learned so easily in a public school environment. As for Catholic schools, there’s not much Catholic about them any more.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:55 PM By Annette
It is certainly getting very scary out there. We need to be alert as to what is going on in the political arena. We have the constitutional God given right to petition issues. I live in California and I was so surprised at the number of believers who were not aware of the passing of SB777 (mandatory teaching of homesexuality and transgender in the public school). Many of these were people in churches where the pastor and much of the congregation have students enrolled in public school. I was so thankful for our church who informed us on the issue and to get people to petition SB777. Unfortunately, SB777 is now a law which affects all public schools. The sad thing is that SB777 could have been stopped in its beginnings if more people were aware of it and made steps to stop it. Many non-Christian people do not even like SB777. We all need to be aware of every issue whether it affect us or not. We never know the day when that issue will one day come to haunt us and be imposed upon us. Let us all keep our eyes and ears open while we often go to our knees.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:00 PM By Grisha
Greg ~ The question I've been discussing w/ Christopher is not the overall quality level of most homeschools. Rather, it is the question, ought a parent be able to not send a child to school and call anything they put together "Home schooling" and be responsible to no one but themselves?
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:21 PM By Brian S.
Grisha - your opinion of homeschooling is noted. My opinion differs. It would be simple, I would suppose, for you to follow yours, and me to follow mine. Apparently in this matter - unlike most others you have addressed on this site - you do not accept such a basic live and let live position. Instead, for the sake of foreign langugage classes, or to prevent families from moving to Guyana, you would break families apart and advocate Inquisitors to to ferret out forbidden books or uncover forbidden religious practices. All in the name of "the Children", of course.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:34 PM By Elizabeth
Many states employ a moderate level of supervision of homeschools. California has none. Here are some examples:
In Maryland, homeschooling is supervised either by a religious institution or by the school system. Either way, the parents are required to demonstrate by semi-annual portfolio that they provide "regular and thorough education" in English, math, science, social studies, health, art, music, and P.E.
In Virginia, homeschoolers may either submit annual standardized test scores above the third decile for the grade level in math and English, or have a licensed educator approve a portfolio annually (used mostly for disabilities), or opt out by religious exemption (but this is rarely done.)
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:30 PM By A
This is crazy! The issue is not whether or not these are "bad" parents but our right as parents being able to provide the right type of education we see fit. It is no different than moving to a new district, finding the right prep-school or homeschooling; just like its our choice to dress, feed, set boundaries, choose movies, when they can or can't date, etc. If we don't have these rights, why have kids? Let's just give birth and hand them over to the state! Furthermore, it is very suspicious that these parents are being targeted as we are trying to fight SB777 and there are groups campaigning that we pull our kids out of public school. The public school system is going to fight tooth and nail that we keep our kids in so they can teach what they want at the expense of our children's minds just like we need to fight to maintain our right to homeschool.
By the way, as a teacher and home schooling parent, the majoirty of home schooling families do an excellent job of teaching their children and have made the investment of time and finances to provide an enriched, quality education that is not always possible in a classroom setting.
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Posted Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:16 PM By bj
Ted: Thanks for the link with info regarding this family. There is certainly more to this story than what is reported in the article above. Perhaps, several Catholic benefactors can come to the aid of this family by paying the tuition at a Catholic school for these children. Complaints and talk is cheap.....let's walk our talk!
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:27 AM By Chad Woodburn
Why are these liberals trying so hard to push us into a civil war and revolution? I'm serious. Of course, the right course is to follow what Jesus said: when they persecute you in one town, flee to the next. So, why are the liberals trying so hard to push us into exile and secession?
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:04 AM By RR
Grisha: I went the so-called Catholic school route. In my area the Catholic schools are terrible. Catholic schools are not the answer. They teach watered down religion, disgusting sex ed. described as religion, and outright heresy. The head priest of the Catholic school my children attended for a couple years was defrocked for child molestation. Thank God my boys were never altar boys. The teachers were soooo lazy and made the other kids grade the papers and tests. My daughter was very, very smart and instead of teaching her new things, the teacher told her to go to the library and teach some slower learning children Math and other subjects. I was paying high tuition to have my daughter be a teacher. Was this the best for my child? NOOOOO! My other younger children were more advanced also, so that is what I had to look forward to with them? They could help the teachers out too with the slower kids. Is that right? So, needless to say, I wanted more for children, so I homeschool them. They are excelling at an amazing rate. I challenge them every day in their work. That is something they would not get at a Catholic school around where I live. My oldest daughter will be going to a public high school next fall. She is taking all advanced classes. My husband and I feel it is best to put her in the public school for high school so they can prepare her for college. We are given the option to pull our kids out of their sex-ed program at the high school she will be attending. So, I don't need to worry about that. She has been taught what is right and wrong morally and I can trust her 100%. The Catholic high school here is not an option because it is full of drugs and the tuition is like college tuition. I'm sure there are definitely drugs in the public high school, but I do know it's worse in the Catholic high school. So, Catholic schools are not always an option for most people. What else is left? The best gift of education you can give your children, HOMESCHOOLING!!
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:20 AM By Val
I came across an article on the Home School Legal Defense Association web site, which has to do with a bill in the Nebraska legislature that would establish mandatory testing of home schoolers. It puts into words an excellent explanation of the reasons home schoolers resist things like testing and other intrusions. The article also address the dangerous issue of this bill establishing a precedent for the government to have "prior authority" over children (ie ahead of parent's authority). I cut & paste the following selection:
Dr. Ken Dick, a research fellow at the University of Nebraska at Omaha put testing in perspective by saying that public schools test to let parents know that the schools are doing a good job. By requiring parents who teach their children to test, the bill effectively reverses this, forcing parents to prove that they are doing a good job. He argued that because parents are responsible for their children's education, this makes no sense. Dr. Dick also responded to questions from the committee about testing, stating that testing is a mere “surrogate for reality,” and that he prefers other evaluative measures, preferably work product, such as essays or life experience. He noted that some of his faculty colleagues have noted how easy it is to identify homeschool graduates in their classes, because these students listen, ask questions, and engage the class in a way that distinguishes them from their public school peers.
You can read the rest of the article at
http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ne/200802270.asp
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:24 AM By Fr. M.P.
Canon Law 793 says "Parents, and those who take their place, have both the obligation and the right to educate their children. Catholic parents have also the duty and the right to choose those means and institutes which, in their local circumstances, can best promote the catholic education of their children. Parents have moreover the right to avail themselves of that assistance from civil society which they need to provide a catholic education for their children." Actually looking at the bang for the buck in public schools shows the dismal failure of government forced public education in many cases.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:20 AM By Maria
Many kids are so afraid of public school, and with good reason. There's a school near me that was in lockdown and tear gas. The kids rioted against EACH OTHER. The riot went on. Barely reported in paper. Unless you work full time in a public school, you have no idea how scared the children are. I have seen kids jumped into gangs, seen guns, bats, knives, gang fights etc. You simply have no idea. There needs to be the choice available to homeschool.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:16 PM By LAQ
While I live in NJ (one of the most homeschool friendly in the nation) I can honestly say this is appalling. This country was settled to allow freedoms to it's citizens. How can anyone, other than a parent, determine what is the best course of action for a child is. Having teaching credentials does NOT make someone a teacher or parent, in fact CA has some of the worst schools in the nation so how can they claim parent’s can’t do a good job.
While not every homeschool family does a great job, not every school district does either… hard to learn with a gun in your waistband, and a bulletproof vest on.
While I have never felt compelled to join the HSLDA (as NJ is so homeschool friendly) I can promise you I will join now if for no other reason than to support all those who might lose their constitutional right to raise their family as they see best.
Does this mean that ALL catholic/private school will also have to have certified teachers (not all nuns/priests are certified).
This just seems so wrong, when did I move from a democratic society to a dictatorship? This is horrific!
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:34 PM By Gary
OK, you want to look at the negatives of Homeschooling,
Let's talk about the negatives of Public and Private schooling.
I'm not going to even mention the retired teacher that taught high school and couldn't read or write. Don't believe me, check this link:
http://www.10news.com/news/15274005/detail.html
Let's see what our homeschooled kids are missing:
(These are some of the reasons the court came to their decision, taken from HSLDA article.)
1. They could interact with people outside the family...
Like bullies, gangs, promiscuous kids, kids who curse all the time and kids with no respect for authority such as parents, teachers and law enforcement.
2. There are people who could provide help if something is amiss in the children’s lives...
Like psychologists, counselors, teachers, principals, coaches and other students to MOLEST them, stock them up with anti-depressants or worse yet, HAVE SEX with them.
3. They could develop emotionally in a broader world than the parents’ ‘cloistered’ setting:
Like those emotionally developed kids who shoot up the schools, commit suicide and are not sure if they should live their life as a boy or a girl. Yeah...REAL EMOTIONALLY DEVELOPED. Way to go educational system.
True, not every public and private schools have these issues but at the same time, the case that the courts based their decision on doesn't reflect every homeschooled child's situation either.
Thank You!
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:30 PM By Dave
People of California. You have 2 choices. Move out of that state or Stand up to the government. This violates your rights. The politicians there are practically embracing a totalitarianism. These are your children we are talking about. They do not belong to the state. They belong to God, first and foremost but they also belong to you.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:28 PM By RAR
I also live in NJ, like LAQ does, and one freedom that a person ought to have is the freedom to make up his or her own mind after gathering information from all points of view. That being said, they should be given an ethical/moral background of sound quality as well. Those two constraints given, they need guidance from people. If a teacher does well in teaching students, he or she ought to be given certification on the basis of sound teaching experience, regardless of "credentials". There are bad schools and bad parents, and not all parents necessarily know what is best for their kids! The fundamental criterion must be, not, "Is the teacher credentialed", but, "Is the child learning to the best of his or her ability?"
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:10 PM By Mabel
Speaking of the troubled public schools, I just keep thinking that once God was banned, so much evil has filled the vacancy!
God have mercy! When will America wake up?
I received notice, recently, that here in Indiana, the House of Representatives passed H.B. 1107, which would require public, private and "possibly licensed home school teachers to take 'diversity' and 'multi-cultural training.'"
I understand the bill would require that administrative staff measure "progress" on the cultural views of its teachers and students." Isn't that terrifying? Sounds to me like U.S.S.R.!
From further information I gathered that the bill was to undergo some change/s as it made it's way through the Senate. But the very fact that one House of the State Congress would even consider such an insidious bill leaves me very disturbed! (I understand it passed the House 81 to 13!)
I talked with my representative today and learned that I was the only person who called him about the bill. He said the discussion was about racism. I don't believe it had even crossed his mind that homosexual activists would likely latch onto that opportunity to force their agenda on public, private and maybe even home schools!
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:26 PM By Happy
The quality of public schools in California has been declining for many years now, and if you do not want your kids to go home with tattoos, pierced body parts and homosexual ideas implanted in their young minds by the schools, your only option is homeschooling. (unless you can afford private schools). Not mentioning the bullying issues, large classrooms, with lack of discipline and respect in them. I drove by my elementary school one day and there were two boys rolling in the dirt fighting and no one paying attention to it or cared about it. I will not send my kids to schools like that.
The increasing violence that takes place in schools and around schools (drugs, molestations, shootings), how can one learn? How can a parent not worry whether his/her child will come home from school today or not?
If the public schools are serving the interest of the society, why are we building more and more prisons? Why are we incarcerating more and more people? Most if not all went through our public school systems that were supposed to prepare them to be good citizens?
There should be some regulation of homeschooling in place that ensures that there IS education of some sort occuring but making it illegal completely because of a judge's personal dislike of homeschooling is just plain wrong.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:08 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Dave,
Amen.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:59 PM By Liberal
Chad Woodburn, I'm a liberal, I’m a Christian and I home school my kids. Please stop blaming liberals and start looking beyond the stereotypes. When it comes to home schoolers we have all been stereotyped by the court and it is not helpful or truthful.
In Ca. we have a republican governor and we have had a "christian" conservative president for the past 8 yrs. Both have done nothing but aggressively erode the constitutional rights of liberals, conservatives, Christians and everyone else who lives in this country.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:17 PM By Barbara
We home school. All four of our kids have been home schooled since preschool age. My oldest is attending an Ivy League University, the next one down has applied to a dozen colleges and has been accepted by all of them, and my two youngest are pulling A's and doing college level work. Anti home schoolers always take a couple of cases where the kids weren't being treated well or they were pulled out of public school and weren't learning as the case to outlaw home school. One bad apple shouldn't spoil the whole bunch. Here in CA we are under a private school independent study program that uses Christian curriculum. I teach them, use the Teacher's Guide book that comes with each subject along with the student textbooks and workbooks and hand in a sample of their work every semester. They take tests at home but twice a school year they are given a test by the school to track their progress. Most independent study programs and homeschooling programs have some type of accountability. You want that to protect yourself and to build their transcripts. I would never think to send them to a public school where special agends are being taught. We teach our kids that God loves everyone despite their mistakes or differences. But, not agreeing with people's choices doesn't make one intolerant. It makes them different. And that's okay. But the government wants kids taught that you cannot disagree or that's intolerant and hateful.It is getting very scary. Parents rights are being spit on. It's time to revolt. Because first they come for them, then they come for me then, they come for you. A government who attempts to completely control it's citizens means the eventual demise of freedom.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 6:53 PM By John L. Sillasen
RAR, you need to go to a public school as a visitor and sit in on classes for a while. Then see if your recommendation changes.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:04 PM By John L. Sillasen
If the govt wants a say in home schooling, then it needs to pay the bill ... One home school, eg, whether one or twelve kids should be paid as a school: Has to include administrative, staff, and teacher salaries plus a proportionate operating amount ... even if the particular home school consists of one parent. Let's see, $120,000 as principal; $75K as asst principal; $75K as counselor; then the staff salary for secretaries, receptionist, attendance clerk, nurse, custodian, security person, and resource officer (ie full time police officer or deputy sheriff) ... what'd I forget to include? Hm, maybe ... I'll adopt my dogs and home school them ... yeah, the more I think about it the better I like it. Did I forget the football field and olympic size swimming pool? And all this just to let the govt provide lesson plans ... "darn it, the dogs ate the homework" would be a phrase often heard by the govt inspectors.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:35 PM By Barb
I would first want to know why the judge commented that the homeschooling was meager and bad. Was it? That's an honest question. Second, was there really abuse? That's also a valid question. What kind of abuse?
As a homeschooling mom, I have found it to be the toughest, albeit rewarding, job I've ever had. I homeschool only one child, now a junior. I can't imagine homeschooling eight children.
I've seen in my experience among homeschooling moms that some are really not fulfilling their commitment to actually teach. It's sad seeing these children sort of pass through the days with a meager attempt being made on the part of both parent and child. I sense a sort of fear in the parents and I believe that fear alone is the driving force not to necessarily homeschool, but to keep their children out of school. I really hope the best for these children, but I am not seeing development as I would hope in these children and wonder how they're going to make it after they "graduate".
Nevertheless, they have a "right" to homeschool.
I believe if my child were to attend public school she'd shine. I do not think fear should be the motivating factor for homeschooling. This type of fear serves no good purpose. In the above writings there is such an undercurrent of this fear. The retoric seems to have reached an us v.s. them mentality. Yes they might come to take "us". However, they took Daniel and his friends. It's that type of example I'm preparing my daughter for. Could your children servive as Daniel? More importantly, would they thrive? Fully integrated in a wicked society, he not only prospered, but his faith remained intact.
I think there must be an honest attempt at uncovering all the facts in this case before jumping to judgment. Until more is revealed, I cannot make an opinion on this.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:13 PM By RacerX
Education starts at home not at school. We don't send 1 day old baby to school or 2 months baby to school. We educate them at home. We as human are born to learn from our parents (elders) not from school. Human makes mistakes, not the homeschool system, the public school system or the private school system.
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Posted Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:36 PM By Laura
In response to item Posted Tuesday, March 04, 2008 2:22 PM By Heather. Yes, we are indeed at a precipice where our Parental Rights are being taken away. Check out PARENTALRIGHTS.ORG to join the fight against this outrage!!!
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 7:14 AM By sharon
Parents rights to teach their children, whom they and they alone are responsible for rearing, were violently taken away by this wrongful judgement. The scales of justice were no where to be found. One family does not give any judge or judges to take away the right of freedom in the United States of America for parents to teach their children. When a country destroys the family it destroys itself. The terror of Hitler, in part, was when he took children out of the home to teach them evil and betrayal. Shame on these men who think they are god.....they are not and God will supply the needs to overturn and erase this blatant attack on the freedom of US parents to teach and love and honor their children with the truth of life and family and sanity. Truth will reign.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:18 AM By Jim
You people in California are almost at the point where you are going to have to disobey the law and do it en masse. You are also going to need to get as many law enforcement officials and state workers to take a stand with you and not obey orders. It is coming down to this.
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:25 AM By Annie
The judge's assumption is incorrect: "A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.
During the judges time in school this was the mainstream so I can see why such an educated man is so sorely confused. He obviously hasn't visited a public school in some time let alone interfaced with their teachers, principals, staff, etc. and their anti-American, anti-Government, anti-God, anti-Boy, anti-Family views that they preach today.
Firstly, I would challenge him to go to any public school unannounced and ask the kids what it means to be a good citizen. Then ask if they did learn about citizenship where they learned it -- they won't be saying from their public school teachers -- they will be saying Church, Family, Boy Scouts, or Girl Scouts.
Secondly, I would challenge him even further and ask if a school fails to meet the requirement, he stated above, can the state/school then be sued and torn apart the same way he is tearing this family apart? I doubt he would let that happen, but a family torn apart is OK.
Thirdly, If he says well this has more to do with a child being mistreated by a parent, I would dare him to ask the parents of all the school kids at the given public school he visits how their children have been mistreated by the School, its teachers, its staff, and the injustice that happens there. I doubt he would tear the school apart over it, like he is tearing this family apart.
How interesting?
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Posted Friday, March 07, 2008 8:45 AM By Brian S.
Barb, this is about as much an "Us versus Them" case as you can get, but it isn't the homeschoolers that are making it so.......Leslie Heimov, the executive director of the Children's Law Center of Los Angeles, which provided the attorneys opposing the parents in this case, states that her organization's chief concern was not the quality of the children's education, but their "being in a place daily where they would be observed by people who had a duty to ensure their ongoing safety.".....Pretty chilling stuff. Wish I lived in a free country.
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