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Published: September 29, 2009
Queering the Rosary
“Relational Mysteries” Prayed at Berkeley’s Newman Center
When Oakland’s Bishop Salvatore Cordileone visited Berkeley’s Jesuit School of Theology at the Graduate Theological Union on September 22, he was greeted by approximately 20 protestors. The protestors were seminarians and faculty from the theological union’s schools. The bishop was there to commemorate the merging of the Jesuit school with Santa Clara University. The protesters were there to oppose Bishop Cordileone for his defense of natural marriage.
 According to the QueerToday.com website, protestors included Rev. Dr. Rebecca Parker, president of the Starr King (Unitarian Universalist) School of Ministry; Rev. Roland Stringfellow, the organizer of the GTU’s Center for Lesbian and Gay Studies; Rev. Sanna Reinholtzen, a Lutheran minister; and graduate student Eugene McMullan, apparently a Catholic.
According to the Bay Area Reporter, Mr. McMullan is the founder of Catholics for Marriage Equality. There is more than one organization with that name; presumably they mean the one in the bay area. On August 13, the BAR published an article called “Pray for Equality Outside St. Mary‘s.“ The article began: “The recently formed Catholics for Marriage Equality will be holding a prayer vigil outside St. Mary's Cathedral in San Francisco Saturday, August 15, which is the feast of the Assumption. Organizer Eugene McMullan noted that on the Assumption, the Catholic Church celebrates Mary being bodily raised into heaven. Catholics for Marriage Equality will be praying the rosary while contemplating the Relational Mysteries.”
Many Catholics, even devout ones, may be excused for never having heard of the “Relational Mysteries.” That’s because they exist nowhere except on the agenda of homosexual activists. According to the June 2009 issue of “Impact“, the international newsletter of the Metropolitan Community Church, under the heading “Queering the Rosary,” the “relational mysteries” were devised by Mr. McMullan.
A crystal-clear description of purpose of the “Relational Mysteries” was given in the online calendar of the New Spirit/MCC Church in Berkeley. The entry was for an event held on Sunday, May 31, 2009, and reads: “GTU doctoral student Eugene McMullan and Reverend Jim Mitulski will lead a two part class on "Praying the Queer Rosary," based on stories from the bible which depict Queer Families or Relationships. The class will include a brief history of the rosary, introduction to Catholic devotions, sharing of stories, and praying together.”
The MCC is an overtly homosexual activist church; that was its founding purpose, so it is not surprising to see such an event held there. Unfortunately, the homosexual activists have managed to introduce the “relational mysteries” into at least one Catholic parish as well. The September 13 web bulletin of Berkeley’s Newman Hall - Holy Spirit Parish announces: “Praying the Rosary in solidarity with LGBT Catholics. Join us Sept. 17, 7:30-9:00 p.m. in the lounge as we explore the Relational Mysteries: Fidelity—Ruth's pledge to Naomi (Ruth 1:16-18); Grief—The parting of David and Jonathan (I Sam 20:35-42); Intercession—Esther intercedes for her people (Est 4:9-5:2); Restoration—the raising of Lazarus (John 11:38-44); and Discipleship—the two encounter Christ on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35). The group will be co-facilitated by Mike Campos and Eugene McMullan, Ph.D. students at the Graduate Theological Union.”
One may ask just how these biblical events fit in to the homoactivist agenda. The process is defined as “eisegesis” (the interpretation of a text by reading into it one's own ideas) as opposed to “exegesis,” and it seems to be an ecumenical practice among religious homosexual activists. For example, the relationship between Ruth and Naomi will be interpreted as a lesbian one. The relationship between Saul, David, and Jonathon was interpreted by Episcopal Reverend John Kirkley, one of the nominees to be the next Episcopal suffragan bishop of Los Angeles, as a “Biblical Love Triangle.” The raising of Lazarus was the subject of a homily at San Francisco’s Most Holy Redeemer by Fr. Donal Godfrey, the executive director of University Ministry at USF. He titled his homily “The Call to Come Out.”
Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:15 AM By Sawyer
I don't believe the Catholic schools at the GTU can continue to be members of the union and preserve their Catholic character, nor can they guarantee the orthodoxy of the education that their students and seminarians are receiving. Students at the Catholic member schools may cross-register for courses offered at other schools. With so many dissident Christians at the GTU, how can the Catholic schools seriously and sincerely claim that Catholic students who study there receive a solid grounding in Catholic theology? The Catholic member schools should withdraw from the union, which has degenerated into leftist activism under the cloak of religious faith. As long as the Catholic member schools remain members of the corrupted GTU, you know that they don't take their Catholic identities seriously nor do they take the Catholic formation and education of their students and seminarians seriously. The GTU is an embarrassing blight in the world of theology, as much a blight as the city in which it is located. The Jesuit School of Theology affiliated with Santa Clara University in part to remove itself from oversight by the Diocese of Oakland, whose bishops of late have been inclining more towards orthodoxy. Santa Clara University, in the Diocese of San Jose, has a bishop who hardly says or does anything. The Jesuit School of Theology is safe to stir up dissension under his lackadaisical shepherding.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:49 AM By St. Christopher
Essentially, the gift of the "relational" mysteries can be seen to grow from John Paul II and his experimental "luminous" mysteries. Not that homosexual sexual unions can ever be granted recognition, but it is clear that Catholic tradition, and often the Bible, can and are used to serve the agenda of change. This outrage should be dealt with directly by the Bishop, but we will see what he does.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:50 AM By semperficatholic
You know, the "other team" is beginning to look a bit ridiculous day by day.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:08 AM By MarkF
This applies to so much more than to just Most Holy Redeemer parish, "Most Holy Redeemer is not a Catholic church with gay members. It is a gay spiritual institution that is willing to use Catholicism, including the sacraments, just as far as they can be made "inclusive" of the formative experience of the parish, which is homosexuality, and no farther." I know many men with SSA who struggle to reconcile their inclinations with the Church. These guys' struggles are private and are a matter of their own conscience. And no matter where they are on that journey, they are sincere. What's depicted here is something different. This is homosexuality organized into its own religion. It is not Catholicism, it is the worship of homosexuality. I would have no problem whatsoever with removing Fr. Donal Godfrey from MHR and especially from influencing students at USF, and with cleaning house at the Berkeley Newman Center. How do we do this?
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:33 AM By tom Byrne
It suppose it was inevitable: when this lot has twisted everything else in Catholic tradition in vain and arrogant attempts to justify its perversities, it would at last reach its twitching fingers to the Holy Rosary. Let us all offer true Rosaries in reparation and plead with our bishops to use this as an opportunity to remove from positions within the Church anyone so defaming Our Lady's prayer.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:35 AM By Gabriel
Absolutely sick stuff! What an offense to our Lady!!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:58 AM By Icouldweep
This is a great lesson to us - how we must be so careful to not allow our faith to be influenced by the culture. Sadly over the years it has. Are we responding to the call of the gospel - or do we re-make the gospel according to the world we live in. Sadly in the history of the Church we have allowed the world to shape the norms and morals of the way we live out our faith.
Let's not repeat this again!
God so LOVED the world - that He sent His only Son!
Only God's love heals us!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:17 AM By Observant
Sodomy distorts the body, it distorts relationships, it distorts physical health and emotions -- we know it also distorts and corrupts the mind also, and severely. For some, sadly, sodomy has also become a religion unto itself. Pray for our brothers in grave peril.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:15 AM By JLS
St Christopher, I do not see a problem with the luminous mysteries. What is wrong with Jesus' baptism, the Wedding at Cana, The Kingdom of God being preached by Jesus, the Transfiguration, or the Last Supper? I thought these were important parts of Catholic Tradition; and moreover, myself coming from outside to inside the Church thirty years ago, what I find is an incredible vacancy of knowledge of Catholicism by Catholics ... because they are incredibly ignorant of what God teaches us. How many fell away because of the wind of Vatican II? If those had actually had some even basic knowledge of the religion, then they would have not faded into the sunset; rather they would not have fallen for the phony hype we find so often among the emos of V2. The Luminous mysteries are obviously the late Pope's answer to help the faithful learn what they are supposed to know about Jesus, but don't and didn't. That late Pope is always being dumped on by those who can't see the real enemy. He came from an isolated nation behind fortified walls manned by communist totalitarians ... He had no one to trust in the Vatican other than those who were there ... They were there not because of him but because of the decadence of the West. Anything was better than the Soviet government he had to fight his way out of ... when he got into the West what did he find but depravity ... sometimes one has to choose the least bad of terrible options. The craven had already taken the reins of the Church ... John Paul II managed to take some high ground to allow the next generation some advantage in the fight of the faithful against the corruption so obvious in the cabals that worship the kennedy clan and other such detritus that has masqueraded as Church for too long. He has provided the faithful with the eyes of Moses looking down at the Promised Land ... Moses btw appears in the Transfiguration. "My people perish for lack of knowledge" says God through one of His Major Prophets. Learn!!!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:17 AM By grisha
It's interseting that the gays keep focusing on "relationship" which may or may not include sexual relations and the conservatives focus on one act-that of sodomy.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:29 AM By Willi H
"Catholics" such as these commit offenses against nature and nature's God. Do you really think sacrilege and blasphemy is beyond them?
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:33 AM By Pax Christi
MarkF, too bad we have become so politically correct these days that we can't do what Jesus did back then to clean house. That'd have taken care of the problem in a jiffy.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:29 AM By JLS
grisha, the gays do not focus on relationships, but on anti-relationships, one species of which is sodomy.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:42 AM By Local
Grisha, to quote Abraham Lincoln, "Calling a tail a leg does not make a five-legged dog." Would that these people actually cared about relationships instead of craven physical practices! Pray for these people -- trapped in a false identity in discord with reality -- they are very much unGay!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 10:42 AM By MJ
Terrible offense to our Church and our Blessed Mother!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:12 PM By Bud
"My people perish for lack of knowledge" says God through one of His Major Prophets. Learn!!! This is true. People used to accept what they were taught from the cradle to the grave. The result was not living the true "spirit" while cooly observing the absolute essentials. I am trying to find my way back but don't know if it will happen yet!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 12:34 PM By Jimmy Mac
I suggest that you all read "the sexual person" by Todd Salzman & Michael Lawler (2008), particularly chapter 7.
Be prepared to be challenged. I know that is a threat to many who opine here, but take the chance.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 1:52 PM By Singing Mum
Perhaps Bp Cordileone will lead a scriptural Rosary... and use verses Romans 1 as meditations between prayers.
Seriously, what a misguided display of dissenters. Crack open the bible and the catechism and its pretty clear that the approval they crave won't be happening from legitimate authority. Thank God for bishops like Cordileone. Faithful Catholics, make it your mission to support him in daily prayer and use your own voice for truth. Be charitable, be open to giving reasons for your beliefs, and be confident that human sexuality and morality is not swayed by defiance or demand. Good bishops are teaching more clearly on this, and getting louder. The Church will not invert its teaching on marriage, any more than She has on contraception. She will remain firm, and faithful to Christ.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:43 PM By JLS
Bud, I ran into three types of "cradle to grave" Catholics when I hit college. One type had been taught to think for themselves, as long as they believed in free sex. The second type thought robotically and had no clue what to do in unanticipated situations. The third type manage to somehow tap into the mind of Christ and could mystically manifest His grace ... I'm betting that their secret was prayer including keeping their ears and eyes open for God's word.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 2:47 PM By JLS
The title "The Sexual Person" indicates fractionation. Instead, read "The Acting Person", and the subsequent treatments by JP2, namely the one on the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, the Blessed Mother, and Theology of the Body (but avoid West's skewed interpretation of it). The bottom line is that we each obtain our individual personal unique nature from Jesus Christ ... reading up on it is good, but not necessary if we simply and humbly live it.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 3:24 PM By Elizabeth
There is only two words for this..........
Blasphemeous and Sick!!!!!!!!!
Personally, it made me cry, that people would do this to the BEAUTIFUL ROSARY OF OUR LADY.
These people involved not only need prayers they need HELP!!!!!
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:45 PM By Dan
""[T]he most comprehensive, critical analysis of the Catholic debate on sexual ethics over the past fifty years. Its interpersonal and experiential approach points to a thorough revision of Church teaching on birth control, reproductive technology, premarital sex, and homosexuality."—Edward C. Vacek, SJ, professor, Department of Moral Theology, Weston Jesuit School of Theology "
Jimmy Mac, I copied this off a web page dedicated to the book. It is clear they are forging a new understanding of Natural Law, and that it is receiving strong accolades among the National Catholic Reporter crowd. I would guess their thinking will dominate academia in most religion departments in most colleges and universities. I have always thought that the task of the new ethics was to refashion the notion of Natural Law so as to incorporate all the sexual behavior heretofore proscribed by scripture and tradition. Apparently these two have succeeded in this task, at least according to Fr. Vacek SJ and many others . Jimmy Mac, I don't mind reading the book, or at least understanding its arguments, but the fundamental rupture with historic Chrsitianity is total, or so it seems.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 5:31 PM By JLS
It is all junk science and junk theology: It is not even new, but one load of hype piled on top of another. Have people forgotten about the Love Generation of free sex in the sixties? It is the same old one night stand theology I learned from half the Catholic girls I ran into at college. Astounding, the ignorance and dullness of mind ... guess it's the illusion that spirituality and religion are enlightened by sexual activity. If it goes big time again, we're going to see the LA annual religious carnival filled with men in yoga suits and turbans teaching the arts of having sex without any responsibility and then collecting fees for their advanced workshops at various secluded locations. What is it about hucksterism that is so hard to see? Little wonder that there was such sex abuse scandal and that abortion and gay marriage and artificial contraception are running rampant ... because of the insane preoccupation with sex ... just as the old posters said, the immoral acts cause blindness: some people are so blinded by it that they think it means physical blindness. There is some intrinsic disorder when somebody needs a book or a seminar to motivate them towards engaging in sexual activity within marriage. Since it obviously is a civilizational issue, then it is not a minor problem for the Church and society to resolve. Read history and find out the historical solutions, some of which are devastating firestorms, global floods, annihilation of cities and towns by armies, rampant diseases, rodent born plagues, starvation. Life is not founded on sexual pleasure, although the cultural seducer Sigmund Freud and his offspring have convinced the West that it is ... dump the porn and dump the disguised porn and go and find real life.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 6:16 PM By Life Lady
Ridiculous, simply and utterly ridiculous that any time is spent on SSA people, who like an audience as they struggle with their perversions. I know the good bishop is praying, and thinking, about what he is going to do about this, and when he does it, we will all be amazed, and it will be a very clear message and a very clear indication of the truth in Catholicism, and how perversion and "wishful thinking" are not included in a living Faith.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 7:15 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to S. Christopher: There is legitimate disagreement concerning Pope John Paul II's introduction of five Luminous Mysteries into Rosary recitation on an optional basis. That disagreement would be a discussion for another day. In the meantime, SC, there is no disagreement among Catholic theologians on the question of an "eisegetic" interpretation of the Rosary. EISEGESIS means reading something INTO a text that's not in the text; EXEGESIS means reading something OUT OF a text that really is in the text in the first place. ~ The instance of eisegesis reported above, is a clear -- also a self-confessed -- instance of a wilfull misreading of the Rosary. Such misreading, as we know, is not only false; it is a serious sin (offensum Dei).
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 8:54 PM By MarkF
Grisha, that's an interesting point you make. But really, will you admit that these gay people know what sells in the market place? They're not going to openly push sex in this context, are they? They've just toned down their act. I do appreciate your thoughtfulness but in this particular place it may be misplaced. Homosexuality is not just about sex, but from what I've seen the relationship between love and sex in it is usually very strained. Believe me, homosexuality is a pretty lonely world. I've lived it and I see it in my friends. Some people give up on love and chose a path of total sex. Others find that they can't give up on the promiscuous sex even when they find love and end up in an open relationship. This never ends well, as normal jealousy always comes in this chaos. Frustrations with love can turn into hypersexuality, and that same hypersexuality can ruin love. I hear what you're saying and agree that homosexuality is not all about sex. But scratch the surface of these bogus relational mysteries and the sex is right below the surface. Are we really supposed to believe that Naomi and Ruth were lesbian lovers but also that they never had sex? I strongly suspect that the folks who think that Naomi and Ruth were lesbian lovers have never read the book of Ruth and don't even realize that they were a mother and her daughter-in-law. And come on, are we supposed to believe that when Jesus spoke the words, "Lazarus, come out!" that he was talking about the coming out process of homosexuals? I mean, this isn't even serious; it's a joke. But, this is the world we live in, where the multiplication of the loaves and fishes has become not a miracle but a story about sharing, and the resurrection just means that the apostles thought so much about Jesus that it was almost like he was really there. I guess there's nothing in these relational mysteries to worry about. No one's going to pray them anyway. It's just a PR stunt, albeit an offensive one.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:10 PM By Anne T.
St. Christopher, please, please don't compare Pope John Paul II's Luminous Mysteries with this blasphemous abomination. There is no comparison. The Luminous Mysteries are both holy and Biblical.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:32 PM By Abeca Christian
Another one bites the dust! and another one...oops sorry folks, I am just head over tired with people disrespecting our Lady and our good bishop here. Someone here in the past has posted that the gay agenda worships themselves, well if this is not apparent I don't know what is. This is a symptom called homosexualism. Their mission becomes a god. Their whole identity. Go home and quit embracing the lie of the gay agenda, turn to the one and only real God!
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 12:43 AM By RICK
This clearly identifies TWO huge problems in the church today... (1) The association of heretic, Jesuit seminaries with Catholic institutions, like Santa Clara, and (2) the failure to eject heretic seminarians and their instructors form association with the church! It is past time top have the church act as Jesus would act and toss these clowns!!!!
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 4:40 AM By Sage Berwick
Who are the blasphemers? The ones who so offend you, or the ones you see in the mirror. Catholics you may be, yes, but Christians, NO! Now, post this, if you dare, and pray for me, as I pray for you, in the name of Jesus, in the Holy name of Jesus, our Redeemer and Movement leader.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:02 AM By St. Christopher
"JLS": What is wrong with the Joyful, Sorrowful, and Glorious mysteries? Why did JPII consider that he had the authority -- for whatever reason -- to add to the symmetry of the rosary and to ignore centuries of Catholic tradition? Many have commented critically on the Pope's audacious decision to add to the saying of the Rosary. Why not have each Pope add his own version of the Rosary? There are a good number of diocese in America where revisions are made to the Mass itself, to make it less "offensive" (e.g., by eliminating the phrase "For us men" from the Nicene Creed). There are many parables and events in the Bible that certainly give wonderful insights and examples for us. And it is certainly fine to focus on each of the luminous mysteries as a point of contemplation or prayer. The problem is not with JPII, per se, it is notion that a pope can simply dismiss Catholic Tradition and, because he is pope, that this is somehow a heaven sanctioned directive. The Rosary is not Catholic dogma, but it is decidedly a central part of Catholic Tradition, one that forms the personal focus of many millions who pray the rosary regularly. We do not need each pope to try to redefine the Faith. It is the Pope's responsibility, among many, to insist on conformity to the faith, to defend the Church ,and, on very rare occasions, to voice something infallibly. The "addition" of the luminous mysteries violates Catholic tradition, is not issued as an infallible statement, and adds nothing to the mystery and power of the Rosary. Better to admire JPII, but ignore saying the luminous mysteries when you say the Rosary.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:39 AM By dina little
Ignore the luminous mysteries?? Can you ignore the part of the Creed that say's "Light from light, true God from True God...' ??? Jesus IS the LIGHT of the world! They are more essential now then ever when through out the church Catholics are denying the divinity of Christ, denying the reality of the Eucharist, denying the power of baptism?? The Luminous mysteries are awesome! And have become my favorite mysteries next to the joyful mysteries. They reaffirm among everything else, my faith in the holy Eucharist. I love saying them during adoration.
No...don't ignore the Luminous Mysteries!
God bless JPII who allowed the Holy spirit to shine through him so clearly so that we now have luminous mysteries.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:46 AM By dina little
Ignore the luminous mysteries?? Can you ignore the part of the Creed that say's "Light from light, true God from True God...' ??? Jesus IS the LIGHT of the world! They are more essential now then ever when through out the church Catholics are denying the divinity of Christ, denying the reality of the Eucharist, denying the power of baptism?? The Luminous mysteries are awesome! And have become my favorite mysteries next to the joyful mysteries. They reaffirm among everything else, my faith in the holy Eucharist. I love saying them during adoration.
No...don't ignore the Luminous Mysteries!
God bless JPII who allowed the Holy spirit to shine through him so clearly so that we now have luminous mysteries.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:05 AM By Anne T.
St. Christopher, I agree with you on many of the UNAPPROVED changes in the Mass, etc. such as using "for us" instead of "for us men". As a woman I have always known that the word "men" can be a generic term for both men and women and that the term is not worth fighting about, and that those who do so are "making mountains out of molehills". Never-the-less, the Luminous Mysteries are not one of them. First of all they were approved by the Pope himself. Secondly, there have been different versions of the Rosary all down through the ages--the Franciscan Crown rosary, begun in 1422, is one of them. Also, there are many mini-Rosaries (chaplets) that have received the approval of the Church. The one in the article above has NO APPROVAL by the Church Majesterium at all. That is the difference. You, of course, do not have to pray the Luminous Mysteries if you or others do not want to do so, but you should not tell others that it is improper for them to do so and compare it to the blasphemous one above.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:59 AM By Mark from PA
Dina Little, thank you. That was very beautiful.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:23 PM By Jim Mitulski
I am sickened by the nasty language and judgementalism shown by most of these posts. I am certain Our Lady is pleased by the devotion shown by anyone, gay or straight, who prays the Rosary.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 3:52 PM By JLS
The Luminous Mysteries tell the story of Jesus and the institution of the Church. This may be the one single thing that JP2 will be known for in a few centuries.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 5:21 PM By JLS
Jim Mitulski, the "nasty language and judgmentalism" descriptively reflect the gay community and its blasphemy and sacrilege of Blessed Mary Ever Virgin and God. The depraved pervert homosexuals like the dragon of the Apocalypse pursue her and her Holy Child ... but the earth provides shelter to her and hers.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:20 PM By Anne T.
Jim Mitulski, you can be offended all you want. I am offended when the people referred to in the article make the relationship between Ruth and Naomi an immoral lesbian relationship when the truth is it was a pure and holy relationship between a woman and her daughter-in-law and had nothing to do with lesbians. It is one of my favorite Bible stories, and reminds me of my deceased mother-in-law, with whom I had a good relationship. In fact, it was probably one of the things that kept my husband and my marriage going for forty-six years. I am horrified and incense at how the wonderful stories of Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, etc. are being twisted to justify immoral behavior. It is inexcusably sacrilegious.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:12 PM By TiberRiver
Pray for these sad sodomites and the lady in the moo moo with Birkenstocks.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:21 PM By St. Christopher
Sorry all, it would have been better for JPII to simply start "the JPII Rosary" than to do what he did. The Luminous Mysteries are certainly beautiful, but, to many, they do not belong in the prayer of the Rosary, that is the Rosary that has been with the Catholic Church for centuries. Poetry is beautiful, just as the constitution of many repressive countries guarantee falsely widespread freedoms. The point is not beauty, or sanctity, or meaning, or anything else: JPII should not have felt free to simply "reinterpret" the Rosary. Leave the Traditions of the Church alone. Anne T., your statement that the Luminous Mysteries were "approved by the Pope himself" is exactly the point. He should not assume such authority (and to an increasing many, may not). The arguments that it is OK because a pope "approves it" means that we all worship the Pope, which is clearly not true (as important as the Pope may be to the Church). This means that a pope can change virtually anything regarding the accidentals of the Church. The whip to Catholics then becomes obedience, rather than faith. The Rosary is perfect as it exists and should be left alone, regardless of what beauty comes with change. And, the Church hierarchy should be advised by Church members of that belief.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 8:37 PM By Grisha
JLS_"This may be the one single thing that JP2 will be known for in a few centuries. " Also he (along with Ronald Regan ) brought down the Soviet Union and maybe saved humanity from nuclear war.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:49 PM By JLS
St Chistopher, popes have the power and authority of Christ. There is no reason to doubt the authority of Christ in his addition of the luminous mysteries. It is tidy to have three decades, yet the fourth fits in well with the fact of creation. God is redeeming creation, which is what the luminous mysteries are all about. They explain the other three decades. Popes and bishops and laity have been calling for a long time now for Catholics to learn Catholicism. As a one time outsider coming into the Church this ignorance was almost overwhelming. Jesus directly tells us that we do not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God ... how often do you hear complaints about bad or vacant or heretical sermons or homilies? The addition of the luminous mysteries is the answer to the void of God's Word. This void was taken up by the Evangelicals because the Church was not filling it. Remember that this and the previous Pope both want to hook up again with the Orthodox and bring the Protestants back to reality ... this takes the Word of God ... JP II has provided us with the means of doing it. Meditate on the luminous mysteries and you will take part in the rescue of not only preaching but those who took it up when the Catholics abandoned it.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:57 PM By JLS
Anne T., let me add my voice to yours in addressing Mitkulski: Dude, in my process decades ago of ending my womanizing, an essential part of the process was opening my eyes to the fact of authentic relationships between spouses, among men on battlefields, and the lack of any of these between me and anyone else. I did, however, discover some profound attachments to some others including to my pet dog. These attachments were certainly emotional, and as I explored them I began to find some healing. At some point it became so clear that I broke away from my false and anti-relationship efforts. I began to experience a great, a strong admiration of those who developed genuine relationships. I found my drive towards such genuiness to become the motive for finding God, for establishing a relationship with God ... on God's terms, not mine. One has to give up entirely for God. How you might do that, Mitulski, you'll have to discover for yourself. But your whining about having some sort of real relationship in homosexuality is absolute nonsense, shear fantasy.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 9:58 PM By JLS
Grisha, the historical event you bring up is not significant compared to his addition of the luminous mysteries.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 10:34 PM By Angelo
Grisha, Are you and Maguire on this together?
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Posted Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:28 AM By Joe Catholic
Rev Jim, Don't be "sickened." Instead, be healed and "come out from your tomb."
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Posted Thursday, October 01, 2009 9:51 AM By Patricia
This is just more of the same old same old. It really gets tiresome. The problem is not these wackadoodle heretecical groups. The problem is our so-called Sheperds, both in Rome and Diocesan who are well aware what is going on at the parishes, universities, Newman Centers yet refuse to act. THAT, is the true scandal. By our Sheperds inaction and disinclination to correct, they imply assent and approval. Faithful Catholics are so weary of these charades. One has to wonder why groups like SSPX are excommunicated for their "disobedience" yet are faithful to Catholic teaching, yet these "creative catholics" are allowed to sow lies and untruths that continually go unchallenged by those who are charged woth defending the Faith. Some defense. Why is Father Donaly still a priest? Why are these educational institutions allowed to teach heresy as Catholic faith? I wonder just how much the Church "really" objects to this nonsense.
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Posted Thursday, October 01, 2009 11:59 AM By St. Christopher
"JLS", popes do not have free reign to reinvent everything in the Catholic Church, and this was not what was meant when Christ gave Peter his authority. What if the next pope decides that the Rosary -- to make it more relevant or beautiful or meaningful -- will have ten decades, or twenty, or that it there will now be another set of "mysteries" to add to it. Or, as was part of an early post-Vatican II campaign by many bishops, that the Rosary should not be said in a Church, or publicly anywhere -- that it was only a "private devotion" and was divisive with Protestants. No pope should decide to color Church sacraments to suit his fancy, regardless of how nice it seems. Focus on the "luminous" mysteries if you would like, but call them, "The JPII prayer" or something like that, not part of the Rosary.
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Posted Thursday, October 01, 2009 2:51 PM By Aaron
We celebrated the Holy Eucharist at the Anglican church on Sunday.
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Posted Thursday, October 01, 2009 10:01 PM By Anne T.
St. Christopher, the Rosary is not a dogma of the Church--which can never be changed by any Pope--but just a devotion--a very beautiful devotion that I say most days, but just a devotion. The traditional fifteen mysteries were not changed by Pope John Paul II, just five more mysteries were added. Pope John Paul did not add them to please Protestants, but because he thought they would encourage belief in Christ's miracles, including the Holy Eucharist. I think they were a lovely addition. Any of us can say the added mysteries or choose not to say them, unless they are said with others in a church that has the post-Vatican II Mass. Eastern Rite Catholics use the Jesus Prayer Rope instead of the Rosary and always have.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 12:25 AM By Victoria
What we need to do is to get people to stop using their Rosaries as decorations and good luck charms to be hung on the rear view mirrors of their cars, and instead, to start Praying the Rosary. When we are challenged by the ordeals of life, prayer is always the first place to begin in order to prepare ourselves to act on those challenges. I did not talk to GOD for years because I was so angry with HIM for allowing such terrible things to happen to me when I was a child. Those years without GOD were miserable, lonely years, but gradually, I came back to HIM; and I will never abandon HIM again. I pray for my friends (fellow victims) who say they no longer believe; saying they have lost their Faith. I know that feeling and, at least for me, it was a Living Death. Please, Please Pray For All Those Who, For Whatever Reason, Do Not Pray. Perhaps Your Prayers Will Get Them Back To GOD.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 1:04 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
The thought of having to face Our Lord when they have politicized His Mother's Holy Rosary is indeed frightening!
Aaron, you cannot celebrate the Holy Eucharist at an Anglican Church because He does not enter into their pieces of bread.
When I was a the Republican Nominee for the U.S. House of Representatives, I was privileged with discussions with various Law Enforcement personnel, and they told me that devil worshippers were paying over $1000.00 for a Catholic stolen Host. When I asked them what they were paying for an Anglican host, they told me "nothing"! That was in 1972!
Bishop Cordileone is much bigger than all of these sad jokes put together
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 10:32 AM By JLS
St Christopher, Jesus has given His Church a heart of flesh and not of stone. The corruption came from clergy raised up before Vat 2, the purpose of which is to clean house, which it is successfully doing. It is a great joy to learn, meditate and pray the nature of the Church, which the luminous mysteries bring out ... it simply means that you have to actually learn Scripture. Why are you opposed to knowledge of Holy Scripture?
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 10:36 AM By Brother Richard Jona
God is Love and where there is Love, there is God. How wonderful it is to recognize the presence of God in the love of all people. And how wonderful it is that more and more people are praying the most holy rosary. Our Blessed Mother Mary prays with us all as we seek justice and peace throughout the world. I stand with all persons seeking marriage equality and sacramental graces from God.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 10:53 AM By Mark from PA
Anne T, I agree with you here. I think the luminous mysteries are a beuatiful addition. If people don't care for them they can just say the other mysteries.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 12:19 PM By Anne T.
I would add, St. Christopher, that the Luminous Mysteries are only said on Thursdays unless one prays the whole Rosary. You can easily avoid saying them even before or after a Post-Vatican II Mass if you wish to do so.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 12:24 PM By miak
Is this a report on the protest during Bishop Salvatore Cordileone's visit to Jesuit School of Theology or a report on Queering the Rosary?
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 3:16 PM By Anne T.
Brother Richard Jona, you must be liberal Episcopalian because the Catholic Church and the more orthodox Episcopalian churches forbid same-sex marriage. God is love, but God is not lust. There is a difference.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 4:23 PM By JLS
It's both in the form of a report on the whole event. Notice in the account of the Crucifixion that those who opposed Jesus were included.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 4:29 PM By JLS
Bro Jona, there is no such thing as marriage equality; Marriage is a holy Sacrament and cannot be instituted between those of the spirit of Sodom and Gomorrah. Love includes condemnation of sin. Love mandates turning from sin. Love, Bro Jona, is not a feeling but is God, as you say. You pervert the sense of love when you claim it is found among all people ... this is a deception and a heresy which is also a false witness against God and Love.
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Posted Friday, October 02, 2009 6:01 PM By Mark Davenport
Thank you for sharing those beautiful sentiments, Brother Jona.
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Posted Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:08 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Victoria,
It is possible that we would not be in such bad shape with the Obamanation had just those who hang the Rosary on their rear view mirrors actually used it for praying and voted as true Catholics should.
I pray every day at Mass for the victims of those horrible sins committed by what should have been men of God.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Saturday, October 03, 2009 5:15 PM By JLS
Mark Davenport, the sentiments of Bro Jona shine like the brilliance of Lucifer, which make that apple look good to some souls.
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Posted Monday, October 05, 2009 8:07 AM By WOODY GUIDRY
CHECK THESE ITEMS OUT:- A.-there is no obligation to say the Rosary (except for the smart ones); B.-the Rosary came into being through cloudy circumstances (no, the facts are not certain) after the Church had been bled into perpetual existence C.-There is extravagance in elevating the Rosary to heights where sacramentals cannot and do not give the unique Sanctifying Grace that seven Sacraments routinely do; D.-compared to many short but worthwhile devotionals, the Sacrifice of the Mass suffers being not being so popular; E.Love of the Blessed Mother has caused some (really!) to wonder if she is not considered to be a sort of Fourth Person in the Holy Trinity. REALLY!!!!!
Akin to this well-intentioned, but mistaken position, is the harassing by one group in particular for the Holy Father to consecrate Russia to the Blessed Mother-and urging mainly because the BLESSED MOTHER GAVE INSTRUCTIONS TO DO SO.
CATHOLICS, THE TEACHING AUTHORITY OF GOD ON EARTH RESTS EXCLUSIVELY WITH THE SUCCESSOR TO PETER, NOT WITH ANY OTHER HUMAN-EVEN OUR OWN LOVING MOTHER OF GOD!!!!!!!
The Pope is no more required to believe or act upon PRIVATE revelation than any of the rest of us. The Blessed Mother loves the Bride of Christ, of her Son,and like all of us, accepts ONLY the one human left in charge of her by God.
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Posted Monday, October 05, 2009 8:59 AM By Dean
While some fundamentalist members of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, including Pope Ratzinger, incorrectly believe that God does not love gay Christians as much as heterosexual Christians, the truth is that He does. In God's eyes we are all the same and He loves same-sex marriage exactly the same as different-sex marriage. "There is neither male nor female, we are all one in Christ" Galatians 3:28 . Anyone who thinks God would discriminate on the basis of race, sexual orientation, sex, handedness, nationality, or other demographic characteristics. Let us all pray for the day when the church performs full Christian same-sex marriages and welcome openly gay priests. God bless these gay and heterosexual Christians for continuing to fight for Jesus' vision of love and equality despite the official sinful sexism and homophobia of the current entrenched hierarchy.
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Posted Monday, October 05, 2009 5:30 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
By Dean,
Why don't you quote Genesis 19: 1-29, Romans 1: 24-28, 1 Corinthians 6: 10, 1 Timothy 1:10), Leviticus 20, Jude 7? Is it because they deal more directly with the subject?
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Monday, October 05, 2009 8:03 PM By JLS
Dean, you've got an astonishing sense of respect for the Church and Her Pope. No doubt God has elevated you so that you can announce to the world that you know better.
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Posted Monday, October 05, 2009 8:23 PM By JLS
I never viewed the Rosary as a sacramental; rather like a prayer. Not all His apostles were popes ... St John whom Jesus entrusted to His Mother was not a pope, yet who can dispute the authority of St John? Is there ever a pope who would dispute anything coming from God? No, the popes are the head of Christ on earth. How do we know what comes from God and what does not? The Holy Spirit reveals the truth to us. Why then do we need a pope? Because it is what Jesus has provided for us. He provides both "bread" and "word". But His word can operate through our prayer; His word can work through the Rosary as the Sword of the Lord. St Dominic led the Church warriors victoriously against enemies which would have otherwise overrun the Church and Europe. Prayer is beyond the power or authority of any sacramental. Prayer is one's conversation with God. The Holy Spirit inspires us to pray and what to pray. God knows our needs, yet He inspires us to pray. God wills union with Himself, which is effected with the Eucharist; but how does one get to the Eucharist? What is the road to prepare for the optimum Eucharist? Perfect contrition?, but how do we achieve or arrive at perfect contrition? Do we start with prayer? Do we end with prayer? Once in Heaven do we continue the Sacraments? No. But do we continue prayer? Conversation with God? What language would it be in? How did St Francis or St John of the Cross or St Teresa of Avila or St Therese of Lisieux pray? What did Jesus teach us to pray? What is the purpose of the Hail Mary? I prayed, and in seven years I received my first Eucharist. Does prayer have power and authority? Does Blessed Mary Ever Virgin have power and authority? Is she God? No. But is she united with God? Yes. What does unity mean in this sense?
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Posted Tuesday, October 06, 2009 5:13 AM By RR
JLS: Mark from PA also posts as Mark Davenport. They are the same poster.
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Posted Thursday, October 15, 2009 6:29 AM By Phil
job as a Christian to protect my family from the wrong truth of the Worldly Ways. I will not judge you as a person but I have to judge whether or not the Gay life style, or an association into that way of thinking; is detrimental to Good Christian Values. I must speak out against those values which I believe are dangerous concepts to follow in order to bring my family closer to God and eventually hopefully in to Heaven.I can tell you that the Bible is strewn with Scripture regarding the design by God for the Sanctity of Marriage between one man and one woman. The Bible is clear with God’s will for us in regards to Homosexuality, sex outside the context of Marriage, and the Sanctity of Marriage.
sex before marriage regardless of the genders involved, is fornication and is sinful. Homosexuality is not the path God has chosen for us to follow and is sinful in nature. God indoctrinated marriage as a haven from that sin. Also by his creation and by his will, God made a man and a woman differently in order to bring forth new life. God’s law of our nature does not allow two men, or two women, the ability to procreate children into God’s plan, called The Family. Man made laws however facilitate the partnership of two members of the same sex to have children but not through the conception of procreation as God had mandated for all of mankind. The questions of morality here will always be; as to which laws must you follow to reside in Heaven? This is a new frightening concept with devastating and progressive consequences which will alter the course of Religious and moral values for all of civilization. I do not think that any of us can realize the magnitude of ramifications and consequences of these types of legislation’s. Children raised by one mother and one father, will develop mentally into a more stable and normal emotional perception of themselves and to the world around them. The dominance of one gender as parents, which would be dignified by the passage of Gay Marriages, along with the lack of traditional Christian Morality concepts; children will be deprived of the proper modeling from both a Mom and a Dad, in accordance with God’s expectations for these childr
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Posted Thursday, October 15, 2009 7:51 AM By JLS
Dean, only in your eyes are we all the same in God's eyes. There are many many religions you can join that indulge your opinions. So, why do you bother with Catholicism which does not?
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