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Has San Francisco Catholic Charities become a homosexual-activist organization?

A faithful layman explains why he will not contribute to CCCYO at this coming Sunday’s special collection


News from the Trenches

On April 13, the parishes of the Archdiocese of San Francisco will hold their annual special collection for Catholic Charities CYO (CCCYO).

I won’t be donating.

In 2005, we learned that CCCYO was facilitating adoptions by homosexual persons. Vatican teaching clearly states that such adoptions are unacceptable and the Vatican insisted this stop. CCCYO didn’t agree, so in consultation with openly gay Supervisor Bevan Dufty, they came up with a “compromise” that they claimed allowed them to continue to do adoption work (and accept public funding) while remaining faithful to the teachings of the Church. Instead of doing adoptions themselves, they provided paid staff (actually doubled the staff) to “Family Builders by Adoption,” who call themselves the “gayest adoption agency in the country.” This was termed “remote cooperation.” That is: CCCYO provided staff, but would have no say in where, or to whom, the adoptive children go. On the “GLBT Youth and Families” page of the “Family Builders” web site, we find this sentence: “In the state of California, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender individuals have the same rights as anyone to adopt a child.”

Remember, CCCYO and the archbishop, guided by theologians, justified CCCYO’s staffing Family Builders only in so far as they had no knowledge as to where the children go. So now, “Family Builders” is facilitating not only gay and lesbian, but also transgendered” persons to be adoptive parents. They are using staff paid, in part, from special collections taken at Masses. And by the terms of their own “compromise” -- the compromise the archbishop declared he was “very happy with” -- the archbishop, the theologians and CCCYO can say nothing about it.


The preceding was sent as a letter to the editor of Catholic San Francisco, the newspaper of the Archdiocese of San Francisco. It wasn’t printed, which makes sense, since a letter arguing against giving money to an organization whose chairman of the board is also publisher of the newspaper will seldom get printed. But how did the situation described come about?

Family Builders by Adoption is a homosexual activist organization. Did CCCYO know with whom it was dealing? Yes. One of Family Builders’ board members is open homosexual Glenn Motola, himself a homosexual adoptive “father.” At the time the partnership between Family Builders and CCCYO was formed, Motola just happened to be director of Programs and Services at CCCYO.

Family Builders received grants from the Horizons Foundation, a big-league, homosexual-activist funding organization, in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, and 2007. An openly lesbian lady named Nanette Lee Miller sits on the Audit Committee of the Horizons Foundation. She also just happens to be treasurer of CCCYO. Another of the groups funded (2002-2007) by the Horizons Foundation is the Transgender Law Center, an organization whose purpose is “equality” for “transgendered” persons. Their board chair is a man who goes by the name of “Lisa Rae” Dummer, who produced the 2007 San Francisco Transgender Cotillion and who is a Eucharistic Minister at notorious Most Holy Redeemer Church. His fellow acolyte and lector at MHR just happens to be Nannette Lee Miller, who, as mentioned, is treasurer of CCCYO, and sits on the Audit Committee of the Horizons Foundation, which funds Dummer’s organization.

At the 2007 CCCYO “Red House” fundraiser, the emcee was transvestite “Donna Sachet.” Sachet sits on the board of the Equality California Institute, a group whose purpose is the legalization of same-sex marriage in California. In 2005, Equality California received a grant of $7,500 from the Horizons Foundation. Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Two of the highest-level recent/current members of CCCYO hold upper level board and committee positions in homosexual-activist organizations. Nanette Miller is also a past president of the “Golden Gate Business Association,” the “first GLBT Chamber of Commerce.” As mentioned, she also serves as an acolyte and lector at Most Holy Redeemer Church. She is also a member of the Liturgy Planning Group at MHR. To a faithful Catholic, the question immediately arises: How in the world did CCCYO allow people who are important members of homosexual-activist organizations to obtain such positions of authority? Was it negligence, or did they have the wool pulled over their eyes? The answer is simple: CCCYO has become, to a significant extent, a homosexual-activist organization itself.

Some history

In 1997 CCCYO was faced with a choice -- offer equal benefits to the “partners” of its homosexual employees or lose city funding. What is significant is that CCCYO employees came out forthrightly against the teaching of the Church and supported the city in this dispute. Catholic teaching lost, CCCYO won, and homosexual relationships were recognized as equal with natural marriage.

Three years later, in 2000, CCCYO began allowing adoptions by homosexual couples, again in violation of Church teaching. (Remember, while all this goes on, the archdiocese is mandating annual special collections at Masses to support CCCYO.) In 2005, these adoptions were made public -- and the Vatican ordered them stopped. Again, the archdiocese was faced with a choice: be true to Catholic teaching, or lose public funding. Again, opposition to Church teaching came from CCCYO. But this time the opposition to Church teaching came not from lower level employees, but from the executive director of CCCYO himself, Brian Cahill. And once again, the archdiocese came up with a compromise. This compromise resulted in CCCYO providing staff to “the gayest adoption agency in the country.” That same agency is now pitching children not only to gay and lesbian people, but to “transgender” people as well.

And who brokered this compromise? According to the San Francisco Chronicle, it was openly gay Supervisor Bevan Dufty, who represents San Francisco’s Castro District, and who is himself a gay adoptive “father.” Dufty is a welcomed guest at Most Holy Redeemer; he has attended CCCYO fundraisers; he was the emcee at Family Builders’ 30th Anniversary party. Dufty was also one of the supervisors who signed resolution 168-06, which condemned the Catholic Church as hateful and bigoted for teaching that adoptive children should be placed in a home with a mother and a father.

Finally, as mentioned above, at CCCYO’s 2007 “Red House Fundraiser,” the emcee was transvestite “Donna Sachet.” This is significant. Sachet is a serious homosexual-activist, sitting on the board of the Equality California Institute. Sachet also hosted the VIP Party at the “Marriage Equality California” awards dinner in Mayor Gavin Newsom’s office in 2006. Sachet has appeared at numerous s/m events in San Francisco: the “Golden Dildeaux Awards,” the Folsom Street Fair, etc., including some at Most Holy Redeemer Church. Sachet’s presence at a CCCYO fundraiser indicates they no longer feel a need to hide the true nature of the organization.

Is any of this important? Yes. The first responsibility of the Church is the supernatural welfare of the children of God. The Church was created by Jesus to be the means of the reconciliation of God and man. Also, right from the beginning, the Church took responsibility for our natural welfare. It’s rare that there is a conflict between these two responsibilities. But if there ever is a conflict, the Church simply has to remember that supernatural welfare must come first.

With CCCYO such a conflict has occurred. Those supporters of the new adoptions policy said over and over again that their concern was the good of the children. But from a Catholic point of view, that’s insufficient. What wasn’t considered was the good of the homosexual/transgender adoptive persons. And from God’s point of view, they are every bit as important as the children. The Vatican said that allowing children to be adopted by homosexual persons amounted to “doing violence to the children.” But what was never said is that allowing adoptions by homosexual/transgender persons does violence to those persons. No adoption agency would give a child to a person they considered unfit. CCCYO allowed homosexual persons to adopt until the Vatican ordered it stopped, and it now staffs an agency that specifically targets homosexual/transgender adopters. CCCYO thus implicitly asserts that it’s OK to live a homosexual/transgendered lifestyle.

But since homosexual behavior is sinful, and sin alienates one from God, the Church must never say that it is OK. By doing so, they are abandoning the homosexual/transgender persons.
In approving this compromise, the archdiocese is saying to them: “We don’t care about you, except insofar as you can provide a materially decent environment to this child.” The archdiocese thus violates one of the most basic precepts of Catholic moral philosophy: they are treating persons as means rather than ends. The homosexual (and now transgender) adoptive parents are treated as just that, as parents, as functions, rather than as persons, as souls infinitely precious to God. As souls, as persons, they are considered expendable. But no human being is not a person, and no person is expendable. Not gay people, not “transgendered” people. No one.

The Archdiocese of San Francisco has been maneuvered into a position where its divine duty, the salvation of souls, has been subordinated to the mundane purpose of social work. It must radically change CCCYO, or sever ties with the organization.

(Editor’s note: The author of this article, Gibbons J. Cooney, is a Catholic living in San Francisco.)


READER COMMENTS

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:04 AM By Vincent
The entire premise of this analysis is that "homosexual behaviour is sinful." And yet, although consistent in its proclamation of this allegedly "divine truth", the Magisterium is clearly quite unable to provide reasoned argument to support this extraordinary claim. Which is why the Church (i.e. the people forming the Mystical Body of Christ) has moved on ... and it will probably take the Magisterium some time to catch up. Catholic Spain didn't vote out Zapatero, in spite of conservative Bishops and Cardinals telling the Catholic Faithful that they had to vote him out because he'd legalised gay marriage. And in Catholic Ireland, it seems that two thirds of the People of God are in favour of gay marriage! The taboo has collapsed, and will NEVER be resurrected, since it is the handiwork of the Spirit - work of love and healing and inclusion. Gay couples make excellent adoptive parents - all of the psychological research points to this reality. The Royal College of Psychiatrists' recent report on gay people speaks unambiguously of this. No amount of reactionary vitriol will reverse what has happened ... and kudos to the Catholic hierarchs who are the Prophetic voice in the current Magisetrial wilderness. Take a read of Bishop Robinson's book "Confronting Power and Sex in the Catholic Church: Reclaiming the Spirit of Jesus" for an excellent analysis!

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:21 AM By Jim
They can not be and at the same time not be with the Church. It sounds like it is time for this group and its leaders to stand with the Church or step down and be on their own. Is this a case of black or white? From this article it sounds like it has been "gray" for far to long.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:36 AM By Chuck Anziulewicz
As I've said before, I don't care one bit if Catholic Charities CYO wants to discriminate against adoptive Gay parents, but they WON'T be doing it on my dime! If this agency wants to accept public funding, they had better be prepared to play by the rules, and the rules in California forbid discrimination based on sexual orientation (be it Gay or Straight). Catholic Charities of Boston used to receive a million dollars per year in funding from the state of Massachusetts, and they were given a choice: Either continue placing orphans with Gay couples or give up public funding. They chose to give up the money. Fine by me. If there are that many anti-Gay Catholics in California, Catholic Charities CYO should be able to do just FINE with private funding.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:30 AM By margie
That's fine for Mr. Cooney. I assume he will be taking his usual large contribution and donating it to an adoption agency of his own choosing. They can use the five bucks.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:28 AM By Lisa T.
God bless Mr. Cooney for shedding light on this infected area of the Diocese of San Francisco. It is evident the homosexual infiltration runs deep in this Diocese. Hopefully by exposing these dark dirty corners where the bacteria has been allowed to spread for so many years faithful Catholics will flood the San Francisco Diocese with phone calls, emails and letters. A California Catholic viewer posted the below weblink a few weeks ago. The website documents the Homosexual Activism in the Archdiocese of San Francisco. It is evident that Whoever is responsible for this website really did their homework. http://www.sanfrancisco-catholic.com/index.htm

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:39 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Great job, Mr. Cooney. Sounds like you are one of the few righteous men left in the City.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:57 AM By Maryanne Leonard
While Catholics are taught that fornication and homosexual activity are wrong and sinful, most human beings in America today are not concerned with Catholic morality and so right ahead and fornicate and engage in homosexual activities. As a result of fornication, countless unwanted babies are born. Those that are kept are often neglected and/or abused. Those babies put up for adoption may or may not actually be adopted if they are deemed unadoptable by traditional families seeking a baby with specific racial, ethnic, drug-free, healthy, or physically attractive features, or even specifically requesting the child of highly intelligent parents. With so many children in the system, the states have seen fit to place children with adoptive parents of a different race, parents who are not married, parents of the same gender, etc. Although this approach does not create the imaginary perfect American family profile, it does at least get the child out of the institutions which so many of them hate and which have proven to be inadequate parent substitutes. The questions that we Catholics must address as members of a fractured society include how to stop unwanted pregnancies from being created in the first place, how to improve orphanages and state-run holding institutions, how to improve our society in general, and what alternatives do we offer children who want to be adopted if we take away the option of placing them with family types we don't like very much, such as gay couples, single parents, older folks, mentally challenged individuals, poor families, etc. How many people decrying these adoption placements have stepped up to adopt the hard-to-place children these folks often gladly welcome into their homes? If I have welcomed a child into my home, I have a right to an opinion. If I have not, my opinion carries less weight. It happens that I have done so twice, and my opinion is every child profoundly needs a family, no matter how imperfect.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:00 AM By Art of Redding
Thanks for the expose Mr. Cooney. God bless you and keep up the great work.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:09 AM By Richard
I'm in constant wonder at how patient and merciful God is with the modern Sodom of Northern California. If it were my call, that city would have split open down its belly and sunk into the sea, carrying the guilty and presumeably 'just' down to the everlasting depths.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:23 AM By Betty
I do not believe that homosexual couples make excellent adoptive parents. Books have been written by adopted children of gay couples and the message we get is "It was awful. I hated it." None of them were publicized' you won't see any of them in the front windows of popular bookshops. I'd like to ask some questions and I know you'll all tell me that they are about small matters of little importance but there again I believe that small things count. So here's one. If my child encounters a child of adoptive gay parents and gets invited to a birthday party at his/her house, should I let him go? How about sleepovers? Do I just say no? How do I explain to my child what the difference is between his parents and the other kid's parents? Please don't come at me with stories of how you don't want that poor adoptive child to be left out of birthday parties. sleepovers, etc. just because he got adopted by gay parents.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:26 AM By Lisa T.
It seems the pro-homosexuals are out in full force this morning. Just out of curiosity Vincent are you an MHR parishioner, you seem to be chanting their mantra?

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:51 AM By Lisa T.
For Vincent. I guess The Royal College of Psychiatrists' don't read the newspaper in their country. Two men who sexually abused young boys placed in their foster care have been sent to prison. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bradford/5109518.stm************************************here's another article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=480151&in_page_id=1770

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:09 AM By Thomas Miles
Mr. Cooney does not have his fact correct, the Archdiocese is in full concord with the Holy See, Mr. Cooney and others like him like to start problems that do not exist, his perception of the Archdiocese and of the Archbishop is Wrong!! The California Catholic Daily should check the facts before allowing Mr. Cooney and his so called friends to pull the so called wool over your eyes!!! This site and most of it's readers are out to get the Archbishop of San Francisco and it makes me sick, you folks speak about the Holy Father and how great he is as Peter, yet you treat the man he placed in San Francisco as if he is garbage: you folks are far from being Catholic let alone being Christian!!!

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:56 AM By Lily McBeth
It is obivious that Mr. Cooney is motivatied by that age old four letter word.FEAR.It has him so worked up he can't see the forest for the trees.Homosexuality and transvestism/transexuality are not one in the same.His confusion is commonplace in the uneducated population who can not seperate sexual attraction with gender.He migh consider this.....A SOUL HAS NO GENDER.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:23 PM By Lisa T.
Dear Mr. Miles, Please set the record straight for us then. Which of the facts that Mr. Cooney produced do you think are incorrect and do you have the facts to back up the fact that his facts are incorrect? The lack of leadership and inaction in the Diocese of SF is what has caused the problems not faithful Catholics who are exposing the problems

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:24 PM By Kurt G.
Uh. Mr. Miles? Would you care to provide the so called "facts" that you balleyhooed but failed to actually mention? In full concord with the Holy See? Are you kidding me?

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:30 PM By Elizabeth
Thomas Miles ........Believe ME Mr. Cooney (SADLEY) has his facts straight!!!!! We are not out to 'get the Archbishop' as Mr. Miles states. We pray for him daily but must speak up when wrongdoing is being permitted in the Church! I am sure the Archbishop is a very kind man but he is just not the Bishop for the job in San Francisco. We need an Archbishop Chaput, Burke, D'Arcy to come and CLEAN HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!! I'm speaking as a cradle Catholic and a 4th generation San Franciscan.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 12:55 PM By Ronnie
Wow! The homosexual infiltration of this site is unbelievable! Where to begin...First, children in the care of homosexauls always suffer from identity confusion (guess why?) The emotional, psychological and developmental problems are just the tip of the iceberg.. The late Pope even stated that this disordered inclination can do "violence" to the development of these children. However, there is also evidence mounting that it can be preventable because it is a symptom of abnormal development, not an inherent trait, they are not "born that way" and there is no gay gene. Trauma, miseducation, and sinful, abnormal sex habits disrupt these people's lives and are the causes.... So therefore, who would want to have children placed in these homes? Justifying these situations because there "might" be a shortage of adoptive parents is nonsense. Thousands of couples in this country are waiting to adopt...Finally, this mindset, the ends (good)always justify the means (evil) will never work. It's the same old tiresome arguments that have been used since the beginning of time to justify sin.....

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:06 PM By Thomas Miles
Elizabeth, as a fifth generation San Franciscan and a cradle catholic, we don't need Burke, D'Arcy or Chaput, the Bishops that you have mentioned have not cleaned their own House: most of them would not have the knowledge to turn on a vacum cleaner!!!

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:49 PM By Mike
Sexual preference, homosexuality is just that, is a valid criteria to discern the ability to raise children into good citizens. The Homosexual lifestyle (some call it Deathstyle), although practiced by many men or women who are good citizens, promotes by its nature, bad citizenship, ie, promiscuity, abortion, divorce, pedophilia, irresponsible relationships etc. Beyond Catholic Doctirne , the Homosexual lifestyle is a bad idea, and a terrible idea to subject children to. Unfortunately we suffer the cowardice of a honosezualized clergy led by bishops , like Neiderhauer and Mahony, who keep pushing this agenda down our throats. If only they would put just half of their effort into pushing the love of Jesus and the Church rather than the Homo lifestyle, we wouldn't have this foggy thinking, as demonstrated by Vincent and Thomas Miles. Homosexuality is a psychological/developmental illness. It is disordered both biologically (and therefore scientifically) and spiritually.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:49 PM By Dan
"The entire premise of this analysis is that "homosexual behaviour is sinful." And yet, although consistent in its proclamation of this allegedly "divine truth", the Magisterium is clearly quite unable to provide reasoned argument to support this extraordinary claim. Which is why the Church (i.e. the people forming the Mystical Body of Christ) has moved on ... and it will probably take the Magisterium some time to catch up." OK Vincent, what would you consider reasoned argument for this extraordinary claim? Apparently natural law arguments do not perusade you. Scripture does not perusade you. What then would? It is true a group within the Church has moved on, or better, moved away from Catholic teaching on the natural moral law, the imprint of Divine law within our souls. And you claim this is the work of the Spirit. Well in time this tree will be known by its fruits, but to thumb your nose at the natural law is to say God has changed His mind on matters of sexuality. I fear this is a very great folly on your part. And many children will pay the price.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:00 PM By Lisa T.
Mr. Miles, I suggest you go the extra mile and click on this web link to see who is really pulling the wool over who's eyes http://www.sanfrancisco-catholic.com/index.htm

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:17 PM By Mary Ann, SingingMum
Personally, I hope this article is way off and the SF Archdiocese can say SOMETHING to clear itself. Mr. Miles, you missed an opportunity here so far. When asked to provide facts in defense of the SF Archdiocese you didn't... But your last post, with obvious disdain of other bishops ('most of them would not have the knowledge to turn on a vacum cleaner!!!') makes it clear that you are not interested in defending the bishop of SF because he's a bishop appointed by the Holy See. Otherwise why would you hurl a silly insult at a group of bishops? How can your condemnation of others criticizing bishops be taken seriously?

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:30 PM By John
The most telling comment made by Mr. Cooney is right in the first sentence of his article when he states that the Letter to the Editor written to Catholic San Francisco preceding his article was not even published. The word of God and the Gospel message and truths will not be stopped by all the censorship that this world and mankind will try to throw at that eternal truth. In the end only the truth and the righteous will be left standing in God's eternal kingdom. All the censorship of the truth that this world will attempt will be for not and in vain. Only the truth will set mankind free. God Is Truth. God Is love. God Is Hope. God Is Mercy. Amen.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 2:42 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
It is very alarming to read this site and realize just how much the true teachings of the Church have been almost completely obliterated, and how much the Church has been infiltrated! Our Blessed Mother told a visionary, I forget which one, but it was fully approved, that we are now much worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. God have mercy on America! God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:44 PM By Thomas Miles
If you folks are what being a CHRISTIAN is, I pray GOD that I go to HELL!!

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:46 PM By Elizabeth
Mr Miles......With all due respect and charity.....You DO NOT sound like a Catholic at all, especially with your mean-spirited remarks about AB Burke and Chaput. I will pray for you!

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 3:57 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Mr. Miles, I pray that you repent and don't get your wish. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:55 PM By Joe
Vincent...the Magisterium doesn't need to look further than Sacred Scripture to find a "reasoned argument", as you put it, to support their position. Tell me, what is it about the word "abomination" that's unclear to you? May God bless Mr. Cooney.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:25 PM By Dan
I copied the website http://www.sanfrancisco-catholic.com/index.htm that Lisa mentioned and took a look at it. I added it to my favorites for future reference. Later in the day when I clicked on this favorite, the website Jesusneverexisted.com came up. I don't know how this happened, but it seemed fitting. If the LGBTQ are right, the Jesus we thought we knew never existed. What disheartened me most on the San Francisco website is the statement from the Jesuit campus minister that just as Asians, for example, need an Asian Jesus, so the gays need a gay Jesus. It's a simple matter of inculturation. Presumably, transvestites need cross-dressing Jesus. Anything to validate one's particular life-style. Jesus is just whatever you want Him to be.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 6:38 PM By Tom
'A soul has no gender?" Lily, where does that come from?

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 7:38 PM By Verge of Apostasy
Twice now you have censored my comments. It seams to lessen your credibility when certain opinions are not allowed to be expressed.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:04 PM By John L. Sillasen
Vincent, like many of the Jesuits, the homosexuals are creating a parallel "church" ... it's just another protestant type religious org which will in time drop away from the Catholic Church. Vatican II is functioning to kick out these previously hidden imposters.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:12 PM By John L. Sillasen
Lady McBeth, if a soul has no gender, as you claim, then why does the Church await the resurrection of the body? Why does Holy Scripture say the world will be redeemed? How is it that several souls have been seen and recorded in Scripture who appeared in their gender? Such as Moses, Elijah, the Blessed Virgin Mary? Are you going to also claim that we should begin referring to Blessed Mary Ever Virgin as a soul with no gender?! The fact about this gender neutral movement is that it is nothing more than another movement trying to usurp the "judgment seat" of God by means of its errant idea that there is some neutral ground that can judge the Church.

Posted Tuesday, April 08, 2008 9:59 PM By sfgirl
Why don't these gay priests and bishops just out themselves. We know they are gay because "real" men would have nothing to do with these evil perverse people. I just wish these catholics here in sf would get off their fat rich behinds and start acting out their commitment to the Almighty!

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:17 AM By Vincent
Dear Dan, Natural Law most certainly DOES persuade me! Tightly reasoned Natural Law arguments, in synch with the best insights of modern science, that is. Take a read of the Dominican Fr Gareth Moore's "A question of truth: Christianity and homosexuality" for a rigorous examination of this question ... I have yet to read as cogent and as objective an analysis. Though Bishop Robinson's book "Confronting power and sex in the Catholic Church" comes in a close second ... and he's a hierarch himself! As for Lisa ... so you found one example of an abusive gay couple ... well, sweetie, I can find thousands of examples of abusive straight couples. And Betty has found a couple of books written by kids who didn't like their gay parents - well, sweetie, I can recommend more than a couple of books written by kids of straight parents who most certainly didn't enjoy the ride. To argue that a few isolated cases proves that gays shouldn't be parents is quite simply preposterous ... not to mention risible!

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 12:29 AM By Vincent
Dear Joe, calling something an abomination is hardly a reasoned argument. In any case that's a terrible mistranslation of the Hebrew toevah which means ritually unclean. Your post betrays your profound ignorance of the word "reason". Holy Mother Church does not base her moral teaching on scripture so much as natural law arguments anyway, thanks be to Aquinas and his Summa, which tried to reconcile Christian theology with Aristotelian science. Yes - the science that said the earth is an immovable object at the centre of the universe. And the science that said a man's semen provides the seed of the new life, the woman simply providing the receptacle for the new life to be nurtured and grow up in. Natural law deductions from this science are quite obviously going to be intrinsically flawed. We need Natural Law arguments deduced from the best insights of today's science. If you were going to have a heart transplant, you wouldn't want it done by a mediaeval quack - you'd want it done by a specialist up to date with the most modern techniques. So it should be with all Natural Law arguments!!! And if you really are up to discerning the finer points of such arguments, then try reading some Gareth Moore or Bishop Robinson for a little personal edification.

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 5:26 AM By Stephen
My dear brothers and sisters in Christ remember well what Jesus told us in scripture that we are not fighting principalities of the flesh but of the spirit world. satan who is the father of all liars is roaring like a lion trying to devour all around him because he hates God and hates mankind even more because humanity is God's greatest creation and love. It is this same father of all liars that is trying to quote "create a parallel church." Be not deceived and Be not afraid. Hold firm and steadfast to your inheritance the Catholic faith in the one true Body of Christ, the Catholic Church instituted by Jesus Christ through the Apostle Peter, The Rock. Stick with the one true rock that will get you through the turbulent waters coming our way in the very near future. Have faith in Pope Benedict XVI, the new Peter, and be firm in your faith and you won't fall or drown when you too have to walk on that water. God Bless You all. May Jesus sprinkle each of you and your families with his precious blood to protect you through the coming turbulent waters that will calmly pass away the day and the hour only the Father knows.

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:59 AM By Mary Ann, SingingMum
Vincent, you are being led by teaching that contradicts scripture and goes against 2.000+ years of moral teaching if you think that homosexual behavior is not sinful. The Magisterium needs to catch up with the laity and condone deviant lifestyles? Sounds just like people who want a host of sins erased in order to justify their behavior. No evidence that homosexual behavior is sinful? Try the Bible- Romans 1 is a start. Jesus loved all people but he didn't condone their sins. He loved them enough to lead them out of sin and give them something better.

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:06 PM By Soledad
I haven't donated to Catholic Charities for several years because of this and other things. I am wondering, though, if it might not have more of an impact if there was some kind of "tract" that one could put in the offering basket explaining why one is not donating. Hopefully the pastor would pass this on to the bishop who would take note.

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 1:52 PM By Marlene
Ronnie, You are correct in what you say; however the root source of the problem of homosexuallity is Satan. He defies all that God has taught us, and leads all sinners to do the same. Homosexuallity is just another terrible definance of moral christian behavior conducted by possessed men and women like those in Sodom and Gommorah. Thomas Miles, I dislike being the messenger of bad news; but its looking like your prayer will come true. Be careful of awful prayers inspired by Satan and his serpents; hell is worse than you can ever imagine and it lasts for eternity. Think about it. Do you claim to be a christian? Recommend you read about the children of Fatima in 1917 whom Our Lady allowed them to see and describe hell. They were so scared for others lost souls that they prayed those souls would not defy and stray from God; but rather confess their sins, atone, and amend their lives. Even the gospels tell us this is what Jesus taught and how He forgave sinners. Love the sinner, but hate the sin!

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:13 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Vincent, The basis for natural law reasoning is not Aristotelian empirical science but an ethics derived from reasoning about the purpose of man and his various functions. Both kinds of science would have been called philosophy in St. Thomas' day; but in our day, we distinguish between empirical or experimental science, based on on measurement and observation and descriptive in nature, and philosophy, which seeks to know the essence of things. How conception occurs is the proper focus of empirical science. Empirical science, however, can not determine the purpose of sexual intercourse, only describe what occurs in sexual intercourse and how it occurs. The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality is immoral because it violates the primary purpose of sexual intercourse, not because of descriptive conclusions of any empirical science.

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 4:38 PM By Dan
"Dear Dan, Natural Law most certainly DOES persuade me! Tightly reasoned Natural Law arguments, in synch with the best insights of modern science, that is. Take a read of the Dominican Fr Gareth Moore's "A question of truth: Christianity and homosexuality" for a rigorous examination of this question ..." Thank you Vincent for the polite reply, and the reasonable challenge. With Chris Zehnder I relate Naural Law to Divine Law and ethics, not to outdated science. Natural Law is the imprint of Divine Law on our souls and relates especially to conscience-- and common sense that God created our nature for a purpose. For what does nature tell us that sexuality is ordained? Two things happen -- union and children. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that sundering this dual bond has resulted in STDs, abortions, AIDS etc -- tragedy after tragedy. I'm afraid Fr. Moore has just muddied the waters further by suggesting we can break this bond with impunity. But I will look into his arguments.

Posted Wednesday, April 09, 2008 9:20 PM By forgotton catholic
We all know the tree by it's fruit.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:20 AM By Vincent
Dear Mary Ann, Romans 1 does not call homosexual behaviour SINFUL. In fact, Romans 1 says that God made these people have homosexual desires!!! And the word homosexual shouldn't appear there anyway - it was coined just over a hundred years ago by a European psychologist. To understand the true meaning of Romans 1, you need to continue reading into Romans 2. For a very orthodox reading, try Fr James Alison's ""But the Bible says ..."? A Catholic reading of Romans 1" at http://www.jamesalison.co.uk/texts/eng15.html

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:31 AM By Vincent
Dear Dan, Kindly refrain from slandering Fr Moore before reading his work - that is profoundly uncharitable and unChristian behaviour! As for Chris, you sound like a manualist in the mold of Cardinal Palazzini, who together with a couple of other manualists wrote the 1975 Vatican document Persona Humana - condemning homosexual acts. This after throwing the personalists off the commission! This is not the teaching of the Catholic Church, but of one (very conseravtive) school of Catholic moral theology. And even one of the manualists who wrote the document, Professor Fr Jan Visser, later said that on a pastoral level, gays might quite well be better off having committed sexual relationships, and condoned this as the lesser of two evils. You like to make things appear black and white, but in Truth, all is not as it seems! Take a read of http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1252/is_/ai_66191273

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:41 AM By Vincent
Dear Chris, Your axiom is that the primary purpose of sexual intercourse is reproduction. In this you sound like an evolutionary biologist, reducing the human person to the rest of the animal kingdom - where the primary purpose of sex is indeed reproduction. Animals only rut when the female is in oestrus ... for humans, this is most certainly not the case. And so many animals have sex with multiple partners, and are far from monogamous. But they fulfil the "primary purpose" of reproduction nevertheless! For humans, I posit (in light of the personalist tradition, stemming from Jesus himself, as per the Sermon on the Mount) that the primary purpose of sex is love! The Law is based on love, is perfected in love ... Jesus himself is love. The primary purpose of sex is to unite two as one being! And the fruits of this union are sometimes children, but not always. Which is why a sterile heterosexual is not called to a life of enforced celibacy, but is allowed a full nuptial Mass - even if marrying a fertile spouse - and they're allowed to have sex! Now if the primary purpose of sex is to reproduce, the fertile partner should spurn the sterile one, and seek out a fertile one so that they can have kids! NO! Our Holy Mother, the Church, says that their love relationship comes first, and that they can have sex, even though sterile, since the primary purpose of sex is the unitive purpose. So why not for gays?

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:36 AM By John Andersen
Chuck Anziulewicz: You are wrong in your statement about Boston CC. It was not "just about the money." In order to be licensed in Massachussetts, BCC had to promise to uphold the state non-discrimination laws. BCC chose to follow its conscience rather than man's law. In other words, they were DENIED a religious freedom. Progressives and other liberals are not "tolerent" -- they want everyone to practice "their" faith.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:05 AM By Gibbons in SF
Vincent, sometimes evolutionary biologists know what they are talking about. Of course the primary purpose of sex is the procreative not unitive purpose. Because two people can't have sex until you have two people, which means the procreative function of sex takes precedence both logically and chronologically. I believe THAT"S natural law reasoning. "The primary purpose of sex is to unite two as one being?" My brother, that IS the procreative purpose. That "two become one flesh" is about as quick a description of what happens at conception as you'll ever hear.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:29 AM By Grisha
Mr. Cooney writes: In approving this compromise, the archdiocese is saying to them: “We don't care about you, except insofar as you can provide a materially decent environment to this child.” A child in an orphanage or being shuttled from one foster home to the next MAY, especially if he or she is in the first world, have a "materially decent environment." What he or she probably can't get is stability, attention, emotional support and most importantly, LOVE. Again this is especially true if the child is in the second or third world. In an ideal world, every orphan would be adopted by a married couple who could provide all of this. Since we live in this world, adoptions by single people and gay couples who can are the next best thing.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:26 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Vincent, There are other ways of showing love besides the genital way -- and better, more selfless ways. The genitalia, as their name suggests, are reproductive organs. Their use, even in love making, implies an ordination toward procreation . The fact that the human sexual act is primarily procreative does not diminish it; rather, since its purpose is to bring into existence a human person whose end is to enjoy God for all eternity, it is precisely the procreative end that enobles the sexual act. In procreation, human beings participate in God's creative act -- something even angels cannot do.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:28 PM By Ronnie
Grisha:...But a conterfeit love, a disordered love, will never benefit children. It will only confuse and destroy the real concept of what love it. As I've said before,,,the ends never justify the means. You cannot use evil means, placing innocent children with people who have confused identity disorder, in the hope that these children will not linger in foster care. It's just too risky...

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 1:20 PM By HGP
Sodomites die 20 to 25 years earlier than heterosexual couples. This has been shown in Denmark and Norway, which have the longest history in Europe of civil unions with sodomites. Our NIH budget is about $22 billion for research, education and support for HIV/AIDS. There is a bill in congress that would allocate $41 billion for foreign aid to use for HIV/AIDS. Because of the devastating cost in death, disease and money, sodomy should be a federal crime and governments and organizations that are endorsing or are permissive to sodomy should lose all federal funds. As far as CCCYO. if the state wants them to do something that is intrinsically evil, such as placing unsuspecting children with sodomites who have a propensity for child molestation and are like drug addicts in that they want other people to join in their unhealthy activites, they should do the right thing and stop doing anything with adoptions the same way Boston did.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 2:26 PM By Grisha
Ronnie ~ I can only tell you that, from everything I can see, gay people love thier children, natural and adopted, as much as straight people do.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 4:30 PM By Christopher Zehnder
Grisha, The point is not whether two homosexuals love the children they raise but whether two men joined in an unnatural sexual union can provide a upbringing sufficient to instill in the child basic natural morality. You have countered in the past with the example of contracepting couples -- but while children in homosexual households may never see homosexual acts (just as they will never see contraceptive sex between their parents), the contracepting couple is still joined in a relationship that falls within the natural order of marriage and family. Homosexual couples present themselves as forming an alternative to that natural order and thus deny the absoluteness of that order. This would tend to lead to moral confusion on the part of the child. Stability is indeed important for children; but it is important as providing the basis for the proper development of virtue and the moral sense it implies.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 5:52 PM By Dan
"Dear Dan, Kindly refrain from slandering Fr Moore before reading his work - that is profoundly uncharitable and unChristian behaviour." Calm yourself Vincent. I was only expressing a fear, but also a willingness to read what he has to say. I see no slander in any of that. I am currently reading Charles Rice (50 questions on the Natural Law) and it will be instructive to compare the two. Rice is an able defender of Catholic tradition in this area.

Posted Thursday, April 10, 2008 11:28 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Soledad, If you will e-mail me at: crcoa@dslextreme.com, I will forward you a copy of the "No Dogma No Dollars" dollar bill we have that is suitable for placing in the collection baskets or boxes of modernist churches. Just remind me of my offer. It may even be on our website. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com

Posted Friday, April 11, 2008 4:24 AM By Vincent
Dear HGP, You state "Sodomites die 20 to 25 years earlier than heterosexual couples". I'm afraid that is utter bunkum. Go to any global AIDS statistics site, and you will see that globally, AIDS is a primarily heterosexual disease (especially in Africa, India, China, Russia, Asia, etc). In my neck of the woods, namely Southern Africa, around a quarter of the sexually active heterosexual population is infected, and the life expectancy of the straights is around thirty years of age. I have many gay friends in their sixties plus. Get your facts straight before you make preposterous claims. Shame on you!

Posted Friday, April 11, 2008 4:37 AM By Vincent
Dear Christopher, Throughout the animal kingdom, there are gay animals that indulge in a little same-sex hanky panky. Apparently there is an evolutionary advantage - these queer fellows tend to help look after the young of the straights, providing food and protection etc. For humans, this is a well-known phenomenon: the gay uncle who pays for his niece or nephew to go to school, etc. Extended families with gay members have more material and financial resources, ensuring a better chance of survival of that particular unit, and ensuring transmission of the gay gene (carried recessively by siblings). Which is why around 4% of the population remains uniformly gay ... in spite of the reality that gays generally don't reproduce, which should ensure that their gay gene should soon exit the population! Though, modern lesbians often do bear the children of gay sperm donors! Lovely how times they are a-changing! So being gay seems to be a natural phenomenon ... or would you like to tell those two male penguins who incubated a discarded egg that their behaviour is intrinsically disordered, and that they should undergo a bit of reparative therapy. Maybe watch pictures of naked male penguins while being shocked with electric current (that's how the Apartheid defence force did it barely 15 years ago to make its gay soldiers straight!) I am a devout Catholic male who is attracted to other males - that is natural for me ... and so forming a covenantal, monogamous union with another guy is perfectly consonant with the Natural Law ... including the eros!

Posted Friday, April 11, 2008 4:44 PM By Christipher Zehnder
Vincent, You are moving from the main contention. The natural is not what happens but what is meant to happen. Genitalia are procreative organs. That beasts engage in what you call homosexual behavior is neither here nor there. First, noting a phenomenon does not address the cause of the phenomemon -- why does "homosexual" behavior in beasts occur? Secondly, beasts are not a model for men. Some beasts, for instance, eat their young. They act on instinct, which can at times be misdirected. Men act on reason and can order their desires according to their knowledge of what is right and wrong.

Posted Friday, April 11, 2008 5:01 PM By John L. Sillasen
Animals are not, nor can they be homosexual. They are not capable of sin. The commandment of God against homosexual activity applies only to human beings, who alone of all species are capable of sin. Vincent, the lust of the eye of the homosexual distorts the image of nature ... sodomy is disordered, and the perceptions of homosexuals are thus distorted.

Posted Friday, April 11, 2008 11:44 PM By george
Vincent: "Unclean" as you translate for abomination is appropriate. "Clean" is a good way to approach God. Purposely and defiantly remaining "unclean" is probably not going to be particularly pleasing to God. Your take on Romans 1 is equally warped. I find it interesting that you don't see yourself in its pages. But then, the text clearly states that you wouldn't. Yes, God hands you over to your own lusts and degradations when you choose to reject righteousness and thus Him. He will permit you your free will and let you choose your own path to destruction. 27 "Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." As I read through your posts - I see you in Romans 1... 30 "They are insolent, haughty, boastful, ingenious in their wickedness..." God has handed you over to your lust because your lust is more important to you than obedience to God. You are correct though that I often find myself in Romans 2. The difference between us though, is that "I find" myself there and attempt to change. You, on the other hand, can't or won't see yourself in Romans 1 and attempt to twist it to draw the unwary weaker into your sin with you. Jesus does not like people leading His children astray. Please, for your own sake my friend, re-read Romans with a straight eye for the queer guy. Should you see yourself, you may be able to alter your path and come into communion with your Creator. Then read Luke 15. It is my hope for you that you find yourself there as well. This is a personal journey between you and God. You can choose Him, or reject Him. Lust, ego, and pride are very hard vices to overcome, particularly after nurturing and giving in to them for so long. Choose wisely and let us know what you decide.

Posted Monday, April 14, 2008 10:27 PM By daily doodle
grisha, How you possibly think that two men performing anal sex on each other constitutes ANYTHING but that. The human body was not designed for that. It is a filthy, dirty act that leads to disease (anyone heard of aids?) and also injures the intestines scarring and mutilating the body.

Posted Thursday, December 25, 2008 9:48 AM By finster
This is why I am no longer catholic, christian or religious. Religion promotes and encourages hatred and intolerance of others.

Posted Thursday, December 25, 2008 3:49 PM By Mark from PA
Finster, I think you should try to return to the Church. Look for a welcoming parish. Not all Catholics hate gay people. Many are accepting and follow the great commandment of loving one's neighbor as oneself and also Christ's admonition to look after one's own sins and not to concern oneself with the sins of others. May the spirit of Christmas and the peace of Christ rest upon you. God bless you. Mark from PA

Posted Thursday, December 25, 2008 11:58 PM By Maria C
Finster I am sorry that Mark from PA is painting a lie, we do not hate what he calls gay people. Please come back to the church because Jesus is the doctor of all sinners, He wants you back and wants to give you his salvation but not without a price, and that is carrying your cross and submitting whole fully to His plan of salvation. All our Lord's needs is your free will to say "yes" to Him. Find a good and Holy priest for that guidance. We welcome you with open arms and ask Jesus to guide you and give you courage because my friend if you are genuine with your love in Christ, His salvation will set you free of all the lies that the devil has fed all weak sinners whom have bought his lies. God bless you my friend.

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