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Published: September 5, 2008
“Lifelong Catholic?”
San Francisco mayor plans to help launch drive against Save Marriage Initiative
 San Francisco’s “Catholic” mayor will join tomorrow in the official launching of the “No on 8 – Equality for All Campaign” at the old Tower Records store on Market Street.
In early January, on the occasion of his inauguration to a second term, Mayor Gavin Newsom and his family attended a Mass at the historic Mission Dolores Basilica. And to this day he continues to describe himself as Catholic.
Newsom, said to have his eyes on the governorship, will be acting in open defiance of California’s bishops, who have officially endorsed Proposition 8 and have urged Catholics to support it.
But Newsom is no stranger to defiance of Church teachings or to thumbing his nose at prelates. It was Newsom who provoked a constitutional crisis in 2004 by granting marriage licenses to 4,000 same-sex couples in a case that eventually led to the May 15 California Supreme Court decision upholding same-sex marriages. Proposition 8 would undo that 4-3 ruling by amending the state constitution.
In 2006, the divorced San Francisco mayor, who describes himself as a “lifelong Catholic,” abruptly cancelled a trip to Rome for the installation of former San Francisco Archbishop William Levada as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Newsom said at the time that he decided to boycott Levada’s installation in protest over the Church’s prohibition on homosexuals adopting children.
In a February 2008 interview with The Santa Clara, the magazine of his Jesuit-run alma mater, Santa Clara University, Newsom said he “still has tremendous admiration for the Church and very strong faith.”
Joining Newsom at the Northern California headquarters of the No on 8 Campaign tomorrow at 10 a.m. will be Assemblyman Mark Leno, D-San Francisco, and Assemblywoman Fiona Ma, also a San Francisco Democrat, as well as County Supervisor Tom Ammiano, Equality California executive director Geoff Kors, and National Center for Lesbian Rights executive director Kate Kendell, according to a flier announcing the event.
"With only 59 days to go, everyone needs to work to protect equality for all!" said a flier announcing the event. "We have come too far to let it slip away."
Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 12:17 AM By Quanta Cura
Where is the Archbishop of San Francisco? Is he hiding on a golf course in Fresno with Bp. Steinbock avoiding the media? Perhaps they are both working a phone bank at democratic headquarters.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 5:10 AM By Fr. M.P.
No surprise, unfortunately. "Very strong faith?" In worship of self opinion via relativism to be sure, but certainly not Catholic.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 5:20 AM By Ron
Gavin Newsom + Nancy Pelosi = the end times are much closer than we may have imagined. God Bless.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 6:12 AM By Chuck Anziulewicz
The "Save Marriage Initiative"? Save marriage from WHAT, exactly? The only thing that threatens marriage are people who do not take it seriously enough, people who get married at the drop of a hat while assuming that they can get a quick and easy divorce if it doesn't work out the way they had hoped. Beyond that, marriage isn't going anywhere. After Proposition 8 is defeated in November, Straight couples will continue to date, get engaged, get married, and build families together. The fact that Gay couples are allowed to do this also has never "threatened" the institution of marriage. Anyone who has religious viewpoints against marriage equality for Gay couples is free to conduct their own lives accordingly, and no church that opposes Gay marriage will be forced to accomodate Gay couples.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 6:56 AM By Miguel
How does it feel to sell your soul for a few pieces of silver Gavin? The lack of courage and conviction from our politicians is scary. These people steal the bounty from the hard working families and give it to kill babies, promote "homo" education in schools, and harbor killers and drug dealers.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 8:35 AM By JimAroo
I am waiting for the forceful, dynamic, shepherd like statement of Mayor Newsom's Archbishop...................... still waiting.
As a matter of fact I am still waiting for Abp Niederauer to instruct the faithful about another of his flock.... Nancy Pelosi.
Some one please tell me who thought putting a pro gay agenda bishop in Sodom by the Sea was a good idea.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 9:36 AM By Richard
This wimpy, Judas politician should be excommunicated by the Bishop of his Diocese.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 9:49 AM By Shawna
Paul's statement, "There is no Jew nor Greek, there is no slave nor free, there is no woman nor man, for all are one in Christ Jesus." makes all Christians equal in dignity. In RCIA two years ago we there was a discussion that if Paul had known about the science behind sexual orientation he probably would have added, "There is no straight nor gay," to his letter. I think we should also add, "There is no native nor immigrant." All are one in Christ. All are equal. All are welcome. ALL are welcome. All are WELCOME!
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 10:57 AM By James P
The name/word Newsome ought to become a synonym of the word Hypocrite. Has Newsome's diocesan bishop the courage yet to correct this defiant disobeyer of Roman Catholic moral teaching? Did the Jesuits at the University which may have insulted Santa Clara with their liberal and sinful actions and teachings twist this hypocrite's delusionary mind and soul which have led him down this sinful path? Are a few sinners votes worth the loss of his soul for eternity? For those in San Francisco and don't like what Newsome does, take courage and vote him out! Set a good example for the diocesan bishop there, that you are serious and mean business when it comes to cleaning up San Francisco gay culture and its sick city hall. If that were to happen, people nation-wide might eventually stop laughing behind their backs at the city of San Francisco, stop being disgusted with the deviant diabolical behavior, lifestyle, and reputation it has become world famous for, come to respect the city and tour it spending millions of more of their hard earned vacation money. Finally the cleansing might wipe the tears from Saint Francis' eyes and put a smile on his face that there is hope after all. God doesn't create sin nor approves of it; however he has given us liberty to commit it with grave consequences. traditiocom God does not change with time and society He is the Alpha and the Omega, what Our Lord taught 2000 years ago to His disciples, still rings true today and for eternity. Pray you rosary daily and fervently for the conversion of all citizens of the city of San Francisco and surrounding communities. Pray to Saint Francis that he will intercede to God on behalf of the city of San Francisco to clean it up of all sin and especially correct the mayor.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 11:16 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Shawna, God welcomes everyone who KEEPS HIS COMMANDMENTS!
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 11:28 AM By Eileen
"No on 8-Equality for All Campaign?" Well, I guess that no one knows more about Gavin Newsom's unselfish quests for equality than his former best friend and campaign manager, Alex Tourk. It seems that Gavin Newsom's all over the map quests included his best friend Alex's wife named Ruby Rippey -Tourk. Gavin's heroic efforts proved victorious when he pursued the same equal rights with Ruby as a husband. Ruby's husband, Alex Tourk was less than appreciative of Gavin's unselfish willingness to share the fringe benefits of equality with Ruby. Meanwhile, Gavin Newsom valiantly continues his pretend quest of trying to 'at least appear' as if he really cares about anyone but Gavin. Please Archbishop Niederauer, take action and help Gavin Newsom with his soul! He is spinning around in the hamster wheel!
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 11:34 AM By Cyrus Johnson
If I say I am a Catholic, I must be a Catholic. If I call it a family, it must be a family. If I say it is a marriage, it must be a marriage. "...and you will be like God knowing Good and Evil."
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 11:59 AM By Jack P
Newsome is just another CINO (Catholic In Name Only). His claimed admiration of the church is like that of any other passer-by who admits to appreciating the embellishments on the exterior of the church building, but is clueless as to what it is about. He also claims to have a very strong faith, but it's evidently not faith in the living God.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 12:11 PM By Dan
Shawna, you are correct that "There is no Jew nor Greek, there is no slave nor free, there is no woman nor man, for all are one in Christ Jesus." This "oneness" is not a physical reality, since we see men and women are still quite distinct, but a spiritual unity as sons and daughters of the Most High through Jesus' shed blood. We are all loved and equally beneficiaries of Divine mercy. Elsewhere Paul speaks of the dividing wall of division between Jew and Greek being torn down by Christ's death. The question that your post asks to consider is this -- how do we apply the fact that we are all beneficiaries of mercy and united by His blood, to Christian ethics and life? I think the immediate context of Galations is this: there is no human distinctive that merits divine mercy, and no human distinctive that makes one person better than another; all are sinners but also all are equally loved by God. What this has to do with Christian ethics and life is another matter. The above RCIA interpolation (extrapolation?) of Paul's theology depends upon claims about homosexuality that are by no means certain, and to which the best minds of the Church have denied. It would have been better had these RCIA teachers admitted this, at the very least.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 12:54 PM By Life Lady
"Equality" does not mean license. The equality that is spoken of is that equality that we have, as we reach FOR God. He does not have to reach for us, nor would He, He does not require our presence, but He does love us all, EQUALLY, but that does not allow us to sin recklessly, and THAT is the rub. We put ourselves outside the Love of God, even knowing that His Love is endless, when we sin, and offend Him. He may love us, all equally, but when we sin, we put ourselves outside the reach that we have, that we must make, to get to Him. He is there, but if you turn yourself away from Him, and sin, obstinently, and without remorse, He is out of YOUR REACH, which means that you must turn yourself around, and reach for Him, stop sinning, and ask Him to forgive your outrageous temptation of His largess. So, equality is not a license to sin. It is a call to repentance, which Mayor Newsom needs to remember as a someone who supposedly has "tremendous admiration" for the Church. I beg to differ with him, though, as actions speak much louder than words.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 1:04 PM By Servant'sHeart
Hey, Chuck: how about us teachers? Will we still be allowed to tell little children that one man plus one woman equals one marriage?
"Anyone who has religious viewpoints against marriage equality for Gay couples is free to conduct their own lives accordingly, and no church that opposes Gay marriage will be forced to accomodate Gay couples."
Already in Canada and other parts of the world, those who preach the truth contained in the gospel of Jesus Christ are subject to fines and penalties and harassment. We want to be free to respect the truth.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 1:38 PM By J H
Jack P. I whole heartily agree with you that Mayor Newsome is a C I N O. Yes, his archbishop must speak out in defense of marriage. AND THE GOOD ARCHBISHOP SHOULD INSTRUCT HIS DIOSCEAN PRIESTS TO SPEAK UP for MARRIAGE BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN, AND TO INSTRUCT THEM TO OPPOSE PROPOSITION 8. JMJ AND AMDG
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 1:44 PM By Peter
I suppose, regarding teachers:
If one is a teacher in a public school, one would be obligated to keep personal prejudices out of the classroom. If one is a teacher in a parochial school, then one would have no obligation to teach diversity or equality if those notions conflict with the magisterium.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 1:53 PM By Shawna
Let us build a house where love can dwell and all can safely live, a place where saints and children tell how hearts learn to forgive. Built of hopes and dreams and visions, rock of faith and vault of grace, here the love of Christ shall end divisions. All are welcome, all are welcome, all are welcome in this place. Let us build a house where all are named, their songs and visions heard and loved and treasured, taught and claimed as words within the Word. Built of tears and cries and laughter, prayer of faith and songs of grace, let this house proclaim from floor to rafter: All are welcome, all are welcome, all are welcome in this place.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 2:08 PM By JLS
Chuck Anziulewicz, you do not seem to know that one of the principle duties of a husband is to protect marriage. That is the problem with you homosexualists, you have no sense of anything ... you're all pushing the silly wagon.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 2:14 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Shawna,
Have you ever read St. Paul's letter to the Romans 1:28-36
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 2:15 PM By pete salveinini
I don't think he has EVER been told to his face by ANY bishop of SF he is wrong and why, even privately!
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 2:37 PM By Doorman
Hello Chuck,
What we are trying to save marriage from, is the same reduced and base view of marriage that you seam to have. Marriage has long been recognized (not created) by Government as being a unique relationship amongst a man and a woman that can uniquely produce, raise and provide for the next generation in a way that is based upon what is natural, whole and complete. Men and Women by nature are complementary. It takes merely a very simple understanding of human sexual physiology to see that this is true. Two men or two women are no more sexually complementary than a bird is to a lizard. This complementarity extends beyond mere mechanical complementarity in the sexual realm, but to the entire human being of woman and man. Men's bodies react to the pheromones of their pregnant wife/partner, The man's psyche will prepare itself in many ways for the coming of the infant and the protection of their wife. The complementarity is deep and profound. This also extends to the rearing of children. Only a man and woman can give children the balanced and complementary parenting provided by two parents of opposite gender. In fact traditional marriage can be thought of as the first school in gender relations. Of course this was seen as so important, that the government wanted to do all it could to protect and stabilize that which forms the foundation of all societies The fact is, gay relationships CANNOT provide this complementarity. They are based upon an unhealthy and abnormal use of human sexual physiology. Before you start telling me that gay 'marriage' is about love, please realize that most straight men do in fact love other men. Homosexuality is about who you want to have sex with, not about who you love.
Proposition 8 has the aim of protecting True Marriage based upon the natural reality of human's, from a reduced view of marriage that degrades it to a mere contract based upon an individual's particular sexual appetites. When that becomes the foundation of law, the foundation has been eroded.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 2:44 PM By Doorman
Shawna,
Are all truly welcomed? ALL? Are pedophiles welcomed? How about obstinant racists? Unrepentant Rapists? People who practice Bestiality? People who promote Eugenics? People who participate in human slave trade? Pimps who sell their girlfriends, daughters, young children on the street for the sexual deviancy of others? Nazi SS torture men? Stalin's thugs? Are these ALL welcomed?
Maybe what you mean is that all are welcomed once they repent of their evil actions, make amends and promise to live a renewed and Holy Life in Christ. That's the same thing that we say. Homosexuality acts are a misuse of human sexuality as can be PLAINLY deduced from even a cursory review of human sexual physiological and biological operation. Or maybe what your saying is the old tired addage "anything goes between consenting adults, as long as they are nice." This certainly is not christian teaching as taught for 2000 years by the Catholic Church.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 3:16 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Shawna, shame on you for not providing the attribution for your hymn, or, as we say now in Catholic churches, "song". Marty Haugen, a Lutheran, who writes music for Catholic as well as Protestant churchs is the author of the "song" you provide.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 3:38 PM By Dan
Haugen's hymn is pure politically correctness --notice no masculine pronouns for God, no notion of sin and repentance, just cheap, ever-flowing grace. It sounds beautiful because whatever dream or vision you have is automatically validated by God as part of His word ( as words within the Word). It is true that all sinners are welcome to embrace the gospel, but as Christ told the woman in John 8, "Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more." Haugen forgot to mention this fine print.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 4:23 PM By RL
Chuck Anziulewicz I strongly disagree with your last statement; “no church that opposes Gay marriage will be forced to accomodate Gay couples.” This satanic movement has nothing to do with gay rights and everything to do with removing Christian rights!
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 4:34 PM By Paul
Where is San Francisco Archbishop George Niederauer?…he’s busy watching Brokeback Mountain!
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 4:57 PM By Miguel
We are not all welcome. Can you not run a race and receive the gold medal. We we sin repeatedly and be given the kingdom. We are all welcome with certain conditions that is an extensive act of contrition. Confession and repentance are important. Last but not least is shame. Shame on abusing the Temple God has given us. Whether that be with alcohol, drugs, or deviant sex.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 5:08 PM By Shawna
My parish sings that song by Marty Haugen frequently as an opening song. Sorry I didn't credit the lyrics to him before. It's so beautiful as an opening song, truly expressing what a Christian community should be: welcoming all while we come together to celebrate. Yes, Doorman, even sinners are welcomed by Christ, or have you forgotten your Gospels?
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 5:26 PM By RR
Shawna: Celebrate what? The Mass is not a celebration. It is Christ sacrifice on Calvary in an unbloody manner. The priest offers the Mass to God for sinners who are confessing their sins and staying in the state of grace. Homosexuals are not sorry for what they do. Yet, they go up to Holy Communion with these sexual, mortal sins, thus committing an even more serious sin; a sacrilege, worthy of hell.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 5:42 PM By Patrick
Shawna, would you welcome unrepenting gruesome murderers, rapists, deviant homosexuals, pedophiles, and thieves into this fantasy place you are dreaming about, and where there are no established measures in place to protect the lives and common good of the innocents? Hate the sin but love the sinner. Do you still believe in Hell and Purgatory? They do exist whether you want to believe or not. Why do you think they exist? Simple reason there are unrepentant sinners whom defy Our Lord and mock His Laws, Sacraments, and Holy Teachings. They offend Our Lord by disobeying His Holy Will. So stop dreaming like a flower child of the 1960s and come back down to earth and the teachings of Our Holy and Dear Savior Jesus Christ. May God help us all not be deceived by those that pretend they know the true faith of the Roman Catholic Church.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 7:54 PM By JLS
The purpose of marriage is to proclaim the unity of the Trinity; the proclamation is the dynamic nature of marriage. Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom and the Church is His Bride -- this is the unity of God and creation. Marriage is the action whereby man and woman enact the unity which is enacted within and by the three persons of God ... the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The actions of homosexuality cannot achieve this unity, and serve to destroy it. Just as in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah, the homosexualists then were incapable of seeing the goodness of the Lord, and sought to destroy that goodness ... they are no different today. God does not intend to hide His goodness, and this is why it is wrong for the Church to allow society to institutionalize homosexuality.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 8:10 PM By Jimm
Actions speak louder than words. Calling yourself something does not necessarily make it so.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 8:47 PM By cjo
WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANYONE HEARD ANYTHING FROM THE PULPIT CLEARLY STATING THE CHURCH'S POSITION ON 'GAY MARRIAGE' AND OUR OBLIGATIONS IN THE 'PUBLIC SQUARE". WHY ARE MOST BISHOPS NOT TAKING PRO ACTIVE ROLES ?? THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SHEPHERDS ...NOT SHEEP.
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Posted Friday, September 05, 2008 9:38 PM By Dan
"My parish sings that song by Marty Haugen frequently as an opening song. Sorry I didn't credit the lyrics to him before. It's so beautiful as an opening song, truly expressing what a Christian community should be: welcoming all while we come together to celebrate. " Shawna, I like 90% of the words of this song. Indeed, Christ does welcome the sinner. He leaves the 1 sheep goes after the 99. Yes, you are absolutely correct. And we should have a passion for the lost. When I don't know what to pray, I find myself repeating quietly, "Jesus, Mary, I love you, save souls." (a prayer Jesus taught to a Capuchin nun, if memory serves). Of course I include my own soul as part of the prayer. It is just the 10% of the song which, as I mentioned earlier, is a calculated slap in the face of the Catholic Church's teaching. God does not validate every vision or dream as from Him. A book that speaks much to this is the Imitation of Christ, by Thomas a Kempis. Some say Thomas goes too far, but his book at the very least is an antidote to a facile sentimentality in the spiritual life.
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 7:49 AM By pdawg
Lets see if we can agree on some definitions ...
PERSON - made in God's image, capable of profound good, always to be respected and made welcome, whose intrinsic worth is independent of behavior.
BEHAVIOR - a series of choices on how a person lives his or her life. Moralities, guidelines and rules are established by society and organizations to express what is or is not acceptable bahavior, and such moralities, guidelines and rules are necessary for the continuation and healthful growth of those societies and organizations.
SAME-SEX RELATIONSHIPS - a behavior advocated by a few but denounced by the majority of society and organizations over many centuries as inappropriate and contrary to the continuation and healthful growth of society and organizations.
ISSUES - (1) definition of marriage ... Webster has it correct ... first is traditional marriage between a man and a woman, second is same-sex marriage that is kinda like traditional marriage but not exactly; (2) organizations like the Catholic Church unable or unwlling to enforce its rules; (3) activist judges finding Constitutional "rights" where there are none (Roe v. Wade is another example); (4) moving our "freedon to practice religion" society to a purely secular society where there will be no open practice of religion (this is the real target, not just same-sex marriage); (5) Prop 8 to amend the California State Constitution whereby "...only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California;" (6) activist AG Jerry Brown changing the title of the measure to reflect elimination of some imaginary "right" of same-sex couples to marry.
Comments?
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 10:59 AM By betty
Doorman, I appreciated your messages very much, mostly because they're what I want to say myself but I don't express myself as well as you do. I have a practical question to ask. Ny son has taken up a friendship with a classmate who has two mommies, so-called. I think a lot of their friendship is based on the fact that they are both often rejected by their classmates. My son has a physical deformity which makes the other kids shun him, I think and the other little kid has two mommies, which makes him different from his classmates. What about this friendship? What about sleepovers at each other's houses, etc? is it "facile sentimentality (to quote Dan's message) when I feel sorry for this little kid who has two mommies? it's not his fault. U think the other mothers keep their kids away from him because they don't want their own kids to ask a lot of awkward questions, etc. etc.
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:15 AM By BJ
It's pointless writing on this site other than to encourage all contributers to write to the 'opposition' and the misguided on their sites and blogs. The message has to be got to where it is being rejected.
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 11:39 AM By JLS
Nope, it is grave error to separate person from behavior. To claim otherwise is to say in effect that there is no Hell. It is an offense against the unity of God. It is called hypocricy: Jesus points it out when describing the religious rulers of that day in terms ... do as they say, not as they do. Their hypocricy gets them the lowest level in Hell.
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 6:31 PM By Miguel
Right on pdawg, It's amazing to me how they are trying to convince themselves that marriage is a human right. That's like saying it's my human right to be an astronaut. In order to be one you must conform to certain criteria. Many of which I would woefully attempt and be rejected. It just makes absolutely no sense. The scary thing is what's next? I am almost afraid to ask. Because, it start's with marriage then it will infect other parts of society. Moreover, they rationalize it by saying the sky is not falling. As much as a decade ago we would never be having this conversation. Now we are. A right that was created out of thin air.
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Posted Saturday, September 06, 2008 9:29 PM By Pax Christi
One poster asked what we are trying to save marriage from. The answer? Quite simply, to save it having others redefine it for the rest of us. Got a problem with that? As for Shawna, is she seriously deluded or what? Why did Christ time and again talk of hell, about the wheat and chaff and his warning that he will tell those on his left to depart for him into the place prepared for the angel and his demons? If Christ truly intended for everyone, sinners or not, to be welcomed into his eternal glory, then he'd have NO reason to come down here, let alone die on the cross. But because Adam and Eve fell for the snares of Satan, all mankind was barred from heaven until Christ came along. Now we have Newsom and Pelosi as the latest reincarnation of the old Adam and old Eve trying to undo the saving actions of Christ and Mary, the new Adam and Eve. As Sarah Palin would say to Newsom and Pelosi: "I have a news flash for you ... as one of today's readings show, you two have NO authority whatsoever to bind and loosen sins. Only the priests in communion with their bishops and the pope do. By the way, I'd like to return a message Newsom had for the officials at Santa Clara who have barred him from speaking there: Eat your hearts out, guys." Also, Shawna and her backers would be advised to read the Mass readings for this Sunday: Ezekiel 33:7-9, Psalm 95:1-2, 6-9, Romans 13:8-10, Matthew 18:15-20. The thread running through each of them is that we will be held responsible for the deaths of our brothers and sisters if we do not try to turn them away from sin, and that love is the fulfilling of the law, in other words, love for ourselves and neighbors is truly fulfilled only when we obey the fourth through 10th commandments. No go and sin no more!
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Posted Sunday, September 07, 2008 5:20 AM By G Carson
It's called 'Save Marriage' because right now, mariage is defined as a covenant between one man, one woman and God. If they allow same-sex 'marriage' to go ahead, and Steve can marry Bill, then what's logically stopping Jane from 'marrying' Rover? How about Bill, Carol, Ted and Alice all 'marrying' together, as one big, polygamous insult to God? It's Sodom, Gomorrah and Babylon all rolled into one. The family is the cornerstone of society as we know it. Allow the definition of family to change and society will change - for better or for worse?
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Posted Sunday, September 07, 2008 11:43 PM By Shawna
Pax christi: you are leaving out what sin is: going against your conscience. Why should people who God has made to be gay go against their consciences? Their God-given consciences tell them that it is right to love the same gender. To sin would be to go against what their consciences are telling them is right. The church teaces that we have to follow our consciences. That's why "All Are Welcome" is such a beautiful song: we are all welcome with the diversity of gifts, desires and consciences that God has woven into a tapestry of faith in him. we all reflect a little bit of the divine greatness, and when we welcome each other we build up the body of Christ because none of us individually is the fullness of Christ's body. All have to be welcomed, otherwise the body is incomplete. See how beautiful it all is?
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:31 AM By Doorman
Shawna,
Do you think Hitler was following his conscience when he believed that the solution to Germany's ills was to rid german society of Jews, Undesirables, deformed, the sick, the elderly. He certainly believed this was best for Germany, as did many who agreed with him. How about Mau who tried to purge China of people who espoused idea's counter to the communist ideology? Both certainly were following their conscience. The fact is, both of these men had what is called a DEFORMED Conscience. That means they didn't check their conscience against something that is beyond their own emotionally attached notions and idea's. People who believe that homosexual sexual activity is fine have a deformed conscience. People who prey upon youth sexually and have no problem with it also have Deformed consciences. Our personal conscience is not the sole rule of what is morally licit. If it were, there would be NO fundamental moral principles.
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 1:12 PM By Pax Christi
Shawna, there are consequences for every sin in the book. Abortion is the punishment for sex that leads to unwanted pregnancies. Loss of job and estrangement from friends and family are the punishment for alcoholism. Don't tell me there aren't any punishments for homosexuality -- we all know well what those are and are confirmed by doctors. You have been duped by Satan into taking the path that is wide and easy but leads to destruction. Paul rebuked these deluded souls, "for professing themselves to be wise they became fools" who "changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator." You know, Peter, too, thought he was following his conscience when he tried to deter Jesus from going to Jerusalem to die on the cross. Oh, boy, did his conscience get kicked to the curb or what when Christ told him to "get behind me, Satan" for thinking in the ways of man and not of God?
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 2:44 PM By Miguel
Shawna, God also made man to desire other women other than their wives. To even fantasize about another man's wife is a sin. By your logic we should all go and posses anyone we want with no consequence. Illicit sin is sin whether it's pre-marital, adultery or homo-sexuality. But, in this day and age of "do what feel's right." All of the things are fair game. Furthermore, society wants to pass this attitude on to our children with condom instruction and homo-acceptance. It's all around us. Children don't have a chance. They are under attack on a daily basis.
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 6:00 PM By JPeterman
This "mayor" is a laughing stock. He's neither a leader, a Catholic, nor a moral man. When God's patience runs out and San Fran shakes like never before, this "mayor" will be nowhere to be found.
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 9:28 PM By onesoul
Well what do we expec? I think that is why we are supposed to have bishops! It is their JOB to shepard the flock and..." keep us from falling into the abyss of sin" Since I have been alive, I cannot remember having a REAL BISHOP I cannot even consider the ones we have had here in S.F, "HOLY" in any way!
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Posted Monday, September 08, 2008 11:26 PM By Lisa P.
San Francisco shame on you. You are becoming a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. If you do not pray and turn back to God. The "great quake" that everyone has talked about for decades will come to pass and the city will be destroyed. Pray and fast for your city and for it's return to God.
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Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 12:45 PM By Shawna
I am offended by the hate-filled remarks coming from people who claim to be devowtly Catholic believers. Wishing for harm and destruction on a whole city? Where is your love? Where is your forgiveness. That is not the Catholic church that I fell in love with and was welcomed into in RCIA two years ago.
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Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 3:42 PM By Dan
"I am offended by the hate-filled remarks coming from people who claim to be devowtly Catholic believers. Wishing for harm and destruction on a whole city? Where is your love?" Shawna, it isn't easy communicating effectively on this forum. How does one keep vigilant against sin in whatever form without at the same time not coming off as a hate-filled person? Some comments I read might be interpreted as spiteful, others not; but I must confess I have little window into anyone else's soul based just on a post to two. It could be that people who are innocent of hate are nevertheless being accused of hate due to the perspective of the reader, or inadequacies of the posters in expressing themselves. Is everyone who agrees with the Church's assessment of homosexuality hate-filled? It would be a great calumny against a lot of fine people to assert this. Do some people go overboard? If they are truly spiteful, or expressing rash judgment, then of course, yes. But I ask you Shawna, how would you, if a friend of yours was doing something you knew to be wrong, attempt any kind of correction? That friend could turn on you and claim you are not being a friend. Once again, how do we express disapproval of others' conduct without seeming or being hateful? It isn't easy.
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Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 6:59 PM By Anne T.
Shawna, the conscience must be properly formed and instructed in right or wrong. Some people have sinned so long and gone against their conscience that their conscience is dead.
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Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 8:50 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Shawna,
From your own words you tell us of the absolute failure of your RCIA to teach you true Catholicism!
Once, when I was disgussing "universal salvation" with my good friend the late great Bishop Austin Vaughan, he told me that this is silly because why would our dear Lord have gone through the hell he went through to save someone from a Hell that no one goes to.
I strongly suggest that you find a true Catholic teacher and learn the Faith, the same Faith that teaches in His words "admonish the sinner"!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
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Posted Tuesday, September 09, 2008 9:09 PM By JPeterman
Shawna, you don't have a clue of what "love" is. God has in the past and will again punish mankind for our sins. God does this to bring a greater good. Do you think God will continue to allow his Church and people to be abused and attacked? Do you think God will not punish America for the millions of aborted babies. There is no "wishing" for harm and destruction, it is just a simple fact that God has in the past and will again in the future, punish those who violate his commandments. Remember what our Lord said: "Repent and believe in the good news."
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Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 6:02 AM By Tom
Episcopal Bishops Join Effort to Defeat True Marriage in California
By Kathleen Gilbert
SACRAMENTO, CA, September 9, 2008 (LifeSiteNews.com) - The Episcopal Church in California is taking up arms against Proposition 8, an amendment that would change the California constitution to preserve the integrity of marriage as being between one man and one woman. In the process the U.S. branch of the Anglican Communion is clashing with a huge interfaith coalition, including Christians, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus and Sikhs, which is simultaneously launching a campaign to promote the proposition.
Voters will have an opportunity on the 2008 California General Election ballot in November to support Proposition 8, which will reinforce the wishes of 61% of California voters who supported true marriage in 2000. The California State Supreme Court overturned the popular vote earlier this year by legalizing same-sex "marriage," outraging Californians who complained that a handful of activist judges managed to hijack the democratic process.
But the bishops of the Episcopal Church in California have joined the ranks of those working against Proposition 8. All six bishops in the state will officially protest the traditional marriage amendment, according to the Sacramento Bee. The Right Rev. Marc Handley Andrus, Episcopal Bishop of California, will hold a press conference at San Francisco's Grace Cathedral on Wednesday to represent the church's position, "calling for compassion, love and equal protections" for homosexual couples.
Last month Rev. Andrus, commenting upon the international Lambeth Conference of Anglican leaders, had praised the many gay and lesbian activists present for "coming to a place where...there were significant negative places of negative energy aimed at them."
Rev. Andrus will be joined by the Right Rev. Steven Charleston, Assisting Bishop of California, the Right Rev. Barry Beisner, Episcopal Bishop of Northern California, as well as other California Episcopal bishops, clerics and laypeople. Rev. Charleston, when asked whether he would yield to a call from the leaders of the worldwide Anglican Communion to return to traditional marriage
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Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:47 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Thank God that the Episcopal Church is rapidly declining in membership. Even more so than the Am-church!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa
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Posted Saturday, September 13, 2008 10:03 AM By Michael
I am a 63 year old gay, Catholic man who has been in the same relationship with my partner Joe for 42 years. I hope proposition 8 loses.
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