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Out of the parade -- but not out of sight

Parish advertises in guidebook for San Francisco’s ‘Gay Pride Parade’ featuring ads for homosexual ‘hook-up’ services, Internet porno


Most Holy Redeemer, San Francisco’s infamous ‘gay friendly’ parish, did not have a contingent marching in this year’s “Gay Pride Parade” as in years past, but the parish did operate and staff a beverage booth (beer, wine, cocktails), and took out a half-page ad in a pocket guide supporting the June 27 parade.

The half-page ad in the 64-page Pocket Pride guidebook cost $650. The ad featured the words, "God's Love Proclaimed Here" in large letters, with a photograph of the front of Most Holy Redeemer Church, a Mass schedule, and the parish’s street address, phone number and website address.

In 1998, Most Holy Redeemer became the first Catholic parish in the world to march in a “Gay Pride Parade,” and continued to do so for many years thereafter until the archdiocese ordered a halt to the practice in 2008, although accounts of what brought an end to parish participation in the marches varies.

In June 2008, California Catholic Daily reported that Most Holy Redeemer and another ‘gay friendly’ San Francisco parish, St. Agnes, would not be participating in that year’s “Gay Pride Parade” because “the city’s archbishop requested that they desist and because, according to their pastors, interest among parishioners has faded.”

But Fr. Steve Meriwether, pastor of Most Holy Redeemer, said at the time his parishioners chose not to participate of their own volition. “It is really just our response to… well, we’re tired of the hate mail,” he said. “The parishioners see their participation in the parade as an evangelical outreach, but they don’t enjoy being called nasty names either. This wasn’t because of any request from the archdiocese.”

Maurice Healy, director of archdiocesan communications, said, however, that the chancery did request that Most Holy Redeemer stay out of the 2008 “Pride Weekend,” including the annual parade. “It was probably a combination of that and the archdiocese talking to them,” said Healy, when told that Fr. Meriwether had insisted parishioners made the decision not to participate, California Catholic reported in 2008. “At the parish level and the archdiocesan level, it probably was felt that it was a good idea.”

Jesuit Fr. J. Cameron Ayers, then pastor of St. Agnes, said at the time that his parish would not participate in the parade 2008 either. “We just haven’t had the same level of interest from our parishioners that we had a few years ago,” said Fr. Ayers. “There was no order given to me from the archdiocese, but I can’t speak for other parishes.”

Most Holy Redeemer, however, has continued support for the parade by raising funds for its AIDS support group with a beverage booth during the event. Even in 2008, when the archdiocese put the kibosh on parade participation, Most Holy Redeemer operated a beverage booth near San Francisco’s Civic Center, next to the main stage. “There’s a 100 percent chance we will not be in the parade this year, but the AIDS Support Group will have a beverage booth to raise funds for AIDS services,” Robert Pementell, director of the group, said at the time.

The 2010 Pocket Pride guide in which Most Holy Redeemer advertised was a slick, color magazine providing comprehensive information on the 2010 Pride Celebration and Parade. It included a site map, welcome messages from political leaders, a directory for 297 exhibitors’ booths, and listings for one main and 23 other stage areas and venues for entertainment and for various “gay” subgroups. The past and present Pride Parade grand marshals were listed, as well as a list of 166 parade contingents.

Stages and venues included an “HIV Pavilion,” a “Queer Youth Space,” the “Faerie Freedom Village,” “Homo Hip Hop,” “Steamworks Latin Stage,” “Leather Alley,” the “LGBT Collaborative Family Garden,” and the “Nectarena Women’s Stage.”

Among the politicians featured in Pocket Pride were U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a self-described “devout Catholic,” California Assembly Speaker John Perez, who this spring became the first “out” homosexual state assembly speaker in the United States, and San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom, a prominent political pioneer for same-sex “marriage” now running for lieutenant governor. Newsom, a graduate of Jesuit-run Santa Clara University, has also described himself as a Catholic.

The Pocket Pride back cover ad, priced at $1,800, featured a photo of a bare-chested young man, and promoted a “hook-up” service “For all the men in your life,” with a website offering opportunities for homosexuals looking for “one-night stands,” “groups” and a link to a “Thug Orgy” website.

The inside back cover ad, priced at $1,200, promoted “The Most Free Webcams in the World,” and pornographic videos available on the Internet. The ad featured provocative photos of homosexuals and lesbians.


READER COMMENTS

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:31 AM By Terence Weldon
And what, exactly, does the ad for a "hook-up site" on the back cover have to do with Holy Redeemer's ad inside? The juxtaposition of the two in this report is deeply offensive, and clearly designed to damn Holy Redeemer by guilt by association. Vatican opposition to contraception is clear and well-known, yet many retailers sell contraceptives. The same retailers also sell headache tablets. Are you suggesting that Catholic analgesic manufacturers should withdraw their products from stores that also sell condoms, out of fear of endorsing contraception? Of course not. The appearance of a church ad in a publication that also contains other advertisements does not in any way imply an endorsement for those ads. Rather, it is quite simply, a modern means to evangelise - to reach out to a group of men and women who may feel (with very good cause) that they have been unfairly victimised by a harsh and judgemental church. The tragedy here is not that the church is advertising in the Pride magazine, but that they are no longer participating in the parade itself..

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 5:43 AM By St. Christopher
Hard to imagine that a Catholic Church would have anything to do at all with such a publication. Yes, Christ ate with sinners. Of course, in doing so, He also provided guidance to freeing those he sought out from sin. Christ did not embrace "the good prostitute," for example, to continue in the ways of sin. He also directed the forgiven to "go and sin no more". Christ is the example for all Catholics, and all Christians, on how to deal with those who fail to adhere to the laws of the Father (as we all do). It is blasphemy to suggest that Christ accepted the sin, in loving the sinner.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:08 AM By Canisius
Of all the parish closings happening around the Country, why is this so called parish still open. It should be closed and the building and land deconsecrated.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:01 AM By Dana
When the cat's away, the rats will play, and obviously whoever is supposed to be overseeing this church is out to lunch. There seems to be no effort to promote Christ's teachings or respect for the Magisterium. It would be a kindness to turn this 'church' into a half-way house devoted to new age principals, with coffee and snacks. Hello? Hello? Anybody there? Guess they're all picking up devotees on street corners.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:18 AM By Bud
What a shame, it is a rather nice building. I should think it's okay to advertise the reason it is advertising as being: The liquor stand for the direct benefit of the AIDs charity. At least that is one good work of that parish. Once I read of the disgraceful antics of their church groups practically mocking Christ at the Communion Rail, I lost all respect and sympathy for their arrogance, including the pastor.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:55 AM By Isabella
If the ads and booth were to bring people to the church to change their ways then maybe this would be ok (although being connected to this kind of publication is troublesome). Unfortunately, the opposite seems to be happening. It looks as if they are using the advertisements to validate and glorify sins God specifically spoke against in the Bible. I understand the diocese wants to give each pastor control over their own parishes but allowing things like this to happen, weakens Catholicism for everyone and confuses people who are not catechetically strong.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:04 AM By A U.S. Catholic
Our Lord Jesus Christ at the Last Supper before His Passion, Death, and Resurrection said: “If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14: 15. . .Sodomy, in Catholic doctrine, is one of four sins which cry out to heaven for vengeance and are exemplified by a biblical sin. See: Genesis 19: 5. . .It is a public scandal for Most Holy Redeemer parish to place a $650 advertisement in a magazine dedicated to promoting a blatantly scandalous “PRIDE CELEBRATION AND PARADE” centered on sodomy. . .It is mocking God for the Most Holy Redeemer parish advertisement to state: “GOD’s LOVE PROCLAIMED HERE.”! . .Our Most Holy Redeemer said: “If you love me, keep my commandments.” John 14: 15. . .To allow a Catholic parish, especially one named “MOST HOLY REDEEMER” after Our Lord and Most Holy Redeemer, to openly tolerate and in fact affirm and facilitate “gay” “relationships which are clearly founded on same-sex attraction and the act of sodomy is not only a massive ongoing, public scandal but an extreme perversion of the mission of the Catholic Church. . .Clearly the pastor of the Most Holy Redeemer parish, Fr. Steve Meriwether, has been a defiant accomplice in these crimes and should be removed immediately. . .Even Eucharistic Ministers at Most Holy Redeemer parish are publicly known to be openly “married” or “partnered” “gay” men! The salvation of souls and the credibility of the Catholic Church are at stake here. . .Most Holy Redeemer parish is a mockery of “GOD’s LOVE PROCLAIMED HERE.”. . .God shall not be mocked!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:44 AM By JLS
Has this parish ever produced a holy soul?

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:01 AM By Kate
To T.W., Holy Redeemer is absolutely guilty by association. By their fruits you shall know them. Them being the clergy that allow this to go on. Your analogy to a "retailer" doesn't fly. If the "retailer" sells loads of porn, and throws in a few innocuous titles, does that make it okay to be vendor to them? Because seeing that PG title is going to somehow turn their customer's heart? Hogwash. I don't buy that the "modern means to evangelize" is to lie down in the gutter with the sinner and soil oneself. When the sinner chooses to pick himself up out of the gutter and approach the Church, then the Church opens wide its doors. The Church shouldn't be judgmental? Are you kidding? God judged, Jesus judged, and He had a backbone. So did many of our greatest saints.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:26 AM By WOODY GUIDRY
I SURRENDER TO the graces dispensed by the Blessed Mother as an "ACT of DEPENDENCE." God's Mother is surely not tired, not discouraged, not disinterested--and, CERTAINLY, NOBODY should be worried about overloading her ability to dispense EVERY need which ANYONE and EVERYONE has! I AM worried about what WE may neglect to seek for those about whom we have no PERSONAL or OBJECTIVE knowledge. Sitting over a thousand miles away from the "front", I have no way of perceiving what needs to be attacked, supported, or ignored--from receiving just second/third/etc. media source reports. Even today's California Catholic News contains the recital of a contradiction of CCN from Most Holy Redeemer's then pastor, Fr. Ayers, that their archbishop had anything to do with not participating in the 2008 Gay Pride Parade. SO, WE MUST SURRENDER to the wisdom and knowledge of God as He directs the HOLY MOTHER OF JESUS CRUCIFIED to DISPENSE ALL the graces which only He knows the need for. Mary is going to do her assignment perfectly! FROM WHEREVER we "strangers" seek the help for those people over on that edge of this country, the help WILL be perfectly DISPENSED by Mary, Mother of God and Mediatrix of ALL GRACES. Ave Maria.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:41 AM By Abeca Christian
What is true conversion? Does it mean inviting sinners to convert to the Catholic church and not change? Does it mean that they come to this church and continue promoting their gay agenda and using the church as their puppet to promote their heretical views on Christ's love? NO! Better to not bring people to our church who have no real conversion, but only come to infiltrate their sinful behaviors that will only bring other followers with them. Our church should not be used like a whore or a place to muddy up the good message of our Lord. Jesus did not like it when the peddlers came to the temple and disrespected it. He ate with the sinners only when He knew that they were worth saving because only our good Lord knew then who would benefit from His message of true conversion. He was not an enabler nor did He condone sin!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:41 AM By Abeca Christian
BRAVO A U.S. Catholic ! Well said!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:41 AM By Abeca Christian
What is true conversion? Does it mean inviting sinners to convert to the Catholic church and not change? Does it mean that they come to this church and continue promoting their gay agenda and using the church as their puppet to promote their heretical views on Christ's love? NO! Better to not bring people to our church who have no real conversion, but only come to infiltrate their sinful behaviors that will only bring other followers with them. Our church should not be used like a whore or a place to muddy up the good message of our Lord. Jesus did not like it when the peddlers came to the temple and disrespected it. He ate with the sinners only when He knew that they were worth saving because only our good Lord knew then who would benefit from His message of true conversion. He was not an enabler nor He condoned sin!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 10:46 AM By BJ
There is a vast gulf between compassion and ´accepting´. Jesus did indeed eat with sinners, as we ALL are, but he also said ´go and sin no more ´ , rather than ´hey, i don´t like it, but i love you so much it doesn´t matter´. That is the terrible misinterpretation which liberal secularists are pushing successfully with those who would otherwise be open to the truth about the practise of homosexuality and its distortion of God´s plan for humanity.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:28 AM By perrywRinkle
Woody Guidry, Amen to your SURRENDER! She KNOWS; she WILL help. Ave Maria.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:41 AM By Dana
Thank you so much, U.S.Cath.! You speak the truth with the authority of scripture. It is like opening a window and letting in sunlight and air. Too many rely on feelings or others' opinions. Only in God's word can we discern truth. Did you read about the Prof. of Cath. studies in Illinois that was fired recently for teaching what the Church teaches on homosexuality? I'm afraid we'll all be silenced because homosexuals are twisting truth to suit their purposed and play the roles of martyrs. Keep saying it like it is, U.S.!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:21 PM By NUTUNE
TW--"SEE-SAW" would be a good study course for you-YOU WOULD DISCOVER THAT an ad in ONE publication dedicated ONLY to gay pride is NOT EQUAL to an ad in a publication on DIVERSE SUBJECTS. As one who has been spared gay tendencies , I see that the twisted judgment required to actually perceive that morality is "harsh and judgmental" is a dangerous "fixed" approach that invades other judgments from the SAME approach. Gays are used to making incorrect decisions because of the effect of the biggest incorrect decision of all-that abnormal is the same as normal. It is a small stretch to making incorrect judgments about lesser things. Is it gay-bashing to feel sorry for people who have inadvertantly warped their major thinking methods because of a hysterical defense of something indefensible? I'm afraid of what your answer may be-and especially afraid that you may sense that I don't like gays. Not all gays are alike-you'll have to admit that--or "choice" has no point in being talked about at all. Do you believe that non-gays love you enough to beseech the Dispenser of All Graces (that is, Mary, Mother of God) to bring you peace and happiness in your search for truth. The peace of the Lord be with you! Love of Christ, consume you!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 12:36 PM By Abeca Christian
Woody I must be out of it but I don't understand your last post? Can you be more direct?

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:00 PM By Mea Culpa
A U.S Catholic's post above is right on the money! a "gay" pride parade is not a neutral undertaking - it is organized and designed to promote sodomy - a mortal sin. Why would any Catholic parish want to be in any way associated with such a thing?

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:26 PM By Rose
Woody, thank you. Our Blessed Mother has effected countless public victories already and will continue to do so, visible to those who believe, while all the while being His most humble Servant, always directing the glory to Her Son!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 1:51 PM By JLS
NUTUNE, Terence Weldon appears on other sites as a rabid perverter of Holy Scripture. If he's in league with some demon, then it's a particularly depraved one.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:02 PM By Laurette Elsberry
A quote from St. Augustine, Book 3, Section 8: "Surely it is never wrong, at any time or any place, for man to love God with his whole heart, and his whole soul, and his whole mind, and to love his neighbor as himself. The sins against nature, therefore, like the sins of Sodom, are abominable and deserve punishment wherever and whenever they are committed....If all nations committed them, all alike would be held guilty of the same charge in God's law; for our Maker did not prescribe that we should use each other in this way. In fact, the relationship which we ought to have with God is itself violated when our nature, of which He is the Author, is desecrated by perverted lust."

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:07 PM By Laurette Elsberry
A quote from St. Peter Damian (1007-1072): "Unquestionably this vice (sodomy), since it surpasses the enormity of all others, is impossible to compare with any other vice. Without fail it brings death to the body and destruction to the soul. It pollutes the flesh, extinguishes the light of the mind, expels the Holy Spirit from the temple of the human heart, and gives entrance to the devil, the stimulator of lust. It leads to error, totally removes truth from the deluded mind, prepares a trap for the traveller and secures the pit and makes it impossible for the victim to escape. It opens up hell and closes the gates of paradise, changes a citizen of the Heavenly Jerusalem into an heir of infernal Babylon, and turns a Heavenly star into chaff for eternal fire; it cuts off a member of the Church and hurls him into the depths of the devouring flames of Hell".

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:11 PM By Laurette Elsberry
A quote from Pope Leo IX's response to St. Peter Damian: "Lest the wantonness of this foul impurity be allowed to spread unpunished, it must be repelled by proper repressive action of Apostolic severity."

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:16 PM By Laurette Elsberry
A quote from the "Gay Community News", February 15-21, 1987: We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all-male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us."

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:24 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Are there no Catholic clergy in the San Francisco Archdiocese who can iterate, even in a minor degree, the words spoken by St. Augustine, St. Damian and Pope St. Leo IX? If not, why not?.....Archbishop Niederauer, where are you?

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:29 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
Hi, Abeca! To be honest, I purposely did not WANT to be confrontational on this issue-that explains my pussy-footing around.. I'll put BLUNTLY NOW-the people who have had to CONCOCT a good reason to put forth for being gay, seem (to me) to assume a HABIT of doing the SAME KIND of lame thinking that justifies their lifestyle. My SEE SAW COMMENT was clumsy, but I intended to show how out of balance was the comparison made between an ad which appears in a "general subject" publication and one which appears in a "restricted subject matter" one. Abeca, I am of the opinion that you are already schooled in the subject of the elevated position of Our Lady in the Church. As the Mediatrix of ALL graces granted by God, we can ask her (or saints, or the Lord, Himself, to grant peace to the troubled gays.) I'm sure our prayers will be answered -- THROUGH Mary.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:46 PM By Pat R
Not enough prayer anywhere in these days....I mean KNEE prayer for an hour per day....not easy...we're spoiled rotten.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 3:49 PM By Marie Searles
How can the SF Archdiocese allow this sodomy-supporting church to continue with its affirmation of perverted sexual sin?

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:04 PM By NUTUNE
JLS, I hadn't noted the troubling observation you made. I have always been taught ONE magisterial version of the many issues that can (and have been) reinvented by the lack of ONE unassailable authority. I'm cerrtainly no judge of the degrees of depravity-but I'm sure some interpretations would be more offensive than others. I've felt secure in the lack of attacks upon the Blessed Mother who was then not yet proved by her interventions. I've always felt good that Mary was with Jesus so much-and that His apostles were protective of her after the crucifixion. She waited with them the nine days before Pentecost and then she sort of fades out of the written accounts of the journeys which the Apostles began. She did NOT fade out in her actions-HERE OR IN THE HEREAFTER! Don't you think that she must have been awesomely busy after her death dispensing EVERY grace granted by God? The terrible trials of the early Catholics were recorded in the catacombs (some are still recorded there) and other places as supplications for HER intervention. We can safely deduce that she was known to be in heaven as a channel for all the help which was desperately asked for and granted by God. No demon, no matter how depraved, is going to win against that kind of force!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 4:44 PM By JLS
NUTUNE, Weldon's rhetoric is slick, polished gay agenda officianato garbage, which can be corroborated by googling. There is nothing which can defile our Blessed Mary Ever Virgin ... Scripture instructs us to call her "Ever Virgin"; thus, this title given by God is the Word of God and nothing can assail the Word of God. She is the Handmaid of the Lord, and there is no more powerful or authoritative creature. The devil and all his dupes can only attempt to bite her heel, but she continually crushes their heads. This, I understand, shall go on until the end of time. She provides us with the most mysterious impartation of redemption that I know of, and not one thing I know suggests any other possibility.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 6:50 PM By NUTUNE
JLS, it's hard to say how much I appreciate YOUR appreciation of The Blessed Virgin. Men who have warm but strong mothers probably find a natural comfort in Mary-we have been "singled out", so to speak, for an undeserved sense of her worth.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:23 PM By Abeca Christian
Laurette Elsberry I like your posts! You have showed us the difference from what the enemy said about their gay ways and what our saints spoke. You did a lovely demonstration. God bless you always!

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 7:24 PM By Abeca Christian
WOODY GUIDRY thank you for being more direct. Well then, you surely wrote a beautiful post. Thanks my friend.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 8:58 PM By Rose
It is especially heartening to see the love, respect and tenderness expressed for the Blessed Mother by men on this site.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:13 PM By JLS
NUTUNE, perhaps my mother was "warm and strong" and perhaps this has something to do with Blessed Mary Ever Virgin. Let me say this, that the thing that pushed me over the edge of decision to join Catholicism was a Litany to the Blessed Virgin Mary, chanted by monks at the Benedictine monastery now called Prince of Peace Abbey. She has many titles, and the one that tied things together for me is "House of Gold": It is perhaps the way I see Her most profoundly. I'm not sure there is a lot of sentiment in this, but there is a lot of attraction, curiosity, contrast, mystery, desire, humility, resignation. One can rationalize anything to the mundane level of psychology, but this "House of Gold" does not match my late dear mother. They are two different beings. I've heard men, including old priests, talk up how much they are attached to their mothers. Whole different ballgame from where I'm at. I get bored with such talk, it does not connect well with me, and it does not express anything that is in me to express. Blessed Mary Ever Virgin went to the trouble to connect with me in some way which I cannot explain. It was very very difficult for me to get a grip on the formulaic saying of St Francis de Sales that "to Mary through Jesus and to Jesus through Mary": I have to wrestle with such truths using intellect and mystery. Sometimes it's like a puzzle, and the only way to make sense of it is to believe in the basic truths the Church teaches about the Truth. When one denies any one of these elements of truth, then one loses some of the view he had or could have. Sometimes it's clear. Apocalypse 12 is clear ... but not to those who insist on detailing the imagry or trying to materialize it. These people who want to prove or disprove points which exist in faith and not in reason constantly frustrate themselves. Did Jesus tell us that reason moves mountains? Or faith? Which is more powerful and has more authority? There is a time for reason and for faith.

Posted Tuesday, July 13, 2010 11:18 PM By JLS
"a natural comfort", NUTUNE? No, rather I find natural comfort with animals, especially with my dogs. Maybe I'm like the guy Jesus told about who was poor and sat on a doorstep all day begging for scraps while dogs came by and licked his wounds. But a man needs something to do, and perhaps Blessed Mary Ever Virgin makes this possible for me. I'm not so sure that for me She is a feeling, but more a perception, maybe an all consuming perception, at least on the level of hope.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:52 AM By NUTUNE
Sometmes, JLS, I wonder what it was in Mary's demeanor when she told the servants at the Cana wedding, "Do whatever He tells you". I've generally believed that she was like my own mother who displayed and lived genuine feminine gentility until someone mistreated her child or grandchild. The guilty parties really didn't want a return match! Dad was small of physical stature, but he, too, was someone to reckon with when ordinary means were ineffective in defending us kids.. I absolutely believe Jesus knew exactly what He was doing when He left His mother with us. He knew that she would not be a shrinking violet when the occasion required otherwise. You know, of course, that standing on a serpent is pretty serious work!

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:12 AM By Teresa
The article is not entirely correct. A group from the parish DID march in the parade. They marched in silence this year and the their banner bearing the parish's name backwards - so all that was seen was a white, blank canvas. This was to represent that they had been silenced. They did, however wear t-shirts that bore the name of the parish.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:27 AM By Diane
The Church is not "judgemental" It is rightfully "discerning" between good and evil. Judgement is to determine the outcome and is reserved to God alone. Discernment of right or wrong belongs to the Magisterium and faithful Catholics following them.To discern means to clearly see the difference between good and evil and to say so. Holy Reedemer parish and priest are dead wrong in their discernment and homosexual support. By their blindness to the truth they are leading others astray. They are gambling their eternal souls as homosexual activity is condemned everywhere in Scripture by the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Blessed Trnity. He is very, very clear about Gods judement and condemnation of homosexual activity and even those who support it. Holy Redeemer parishs actions sure do reek of Blasphemy. The Holy Spirit through Scripture speaks loud and clear about Gods jugement of Blasphemers souls.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:27 AM By lisag
Many nuns and priests in the Church have worked with sick and dying AIDS patients. Who can not have sympathy for a fallen fellow man. Yet, these churches reach out to brazen sinners without requiring a change of heart. Why are they encouraging people in grave sin to go to church and receive communion. Jesus forgave sins first and then told the cripple to get up and walk. He wanted a show of faith, a change of heart.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:35 AM By H. Warning
The Bishop of San Francisco's job is to take control of this horrible situtation. If he does not change the pastor and it's associates, along with telling these misguided people, that they cannot use the Name "Holy Redeemer Catholic Church" in whatever they are advertising; he is aiding and abetting these sinful actions. He must first remove the paster of the Holy Redeemer Church and send him for re-evaluation and then send him to a Convent, where he must stay and study and pray for the rest of his days. If he does not want to do that the Bishop's duty is to have Rome Laicize this pastor. Any other priest with the inclination and sympatize with and condones homosexual's intrinsically evil acts should be removed permanently from the priesthood. After all, the Bishops of the USA have spent 1.5 Billion or was it 2.5 Billion dollars on abuse cases the majority of which were the cause of acts by homosexuals.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:27 AM By Laurette Elsberry
A quote from St. Bernardine of Siena: "No sin has greater power over the soul than the one of cursed sodomy, which was always detested by all those who lived according to God....Such a passion for undue forms borders on madness. This vice distrovs the intellect, breaks an elevated and generous state of soul, drags great thoughts to petty ones, makes (men) pusillanimous and irascible, obstinate and hardened, servilely soft and incapable of anything. Furthermore, the will, being agitated by the insatiable drive for pleasure, no longer follow reason, but furor....Someone who lived practivig the vice of sodomy will suffer more pains in Hell than any one else, because this is the worst sin that there is".

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:33 AM By Diane
To Nutune, welcome to the Church, no matter how long ago you joined. About your trouble in understanding St. Francis De Sales quote "to Mary through Jesus and to Jesus through Mary" I have a suggestion. Ask our dear Lord Jesus to give you the understanding and love for the Blessed Mother that He Himself wants you to have. Then let it rest with Him. He and the Holy Spirit will both hear and bless that request with great love and great light. On your part, retain the truth and understanding of her that you already posses until He moves to deepen and enrich it with more of the Truth about her. No need to struggle, God works in His own time, when He sees the time is right and you are prepared. Also ask St. Francis De Sales to pray for you about this. God bless you, Diane

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:55 AM By Laurette Elsberry
A quote from Tertullian, a 2nd century Church apologist: "All other frenzies of lusts which exceed the laws of nature and are impious toward both bodies and the sexes we banish....from all shelter of the Church, for they are not sins so much as monstrosities".

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:03 AM By Rick DeLano
When the Holy Father sends us bishops who will uphold the Faith, then it will be possible for the laity to join organizations which require as a predicate for membership a promise never to criticize the bishops. It is impossible in conscience for me to remain in just such an organization now, because I have personally listened to His Grace Archbishop Neiderauer suggest that those of us who oppose his handling of the international, shocking scandal of Most Holy Redeemer Parish have "failed to understand Our Lord's parable to the sons of Thunder". No, Your Grace. We do not propose that you cast fire from heaven down upon the scandalous pastor of MHR. We merely propose that you remove him and have the courage to take the consequent heat. Another alternative of course is to get out of the kitchen. I humbly beg and pray for God to take action to restore the Faith in San Francisco. In the meantime I will do what I can to advance the Church's teaching, short of binding myself to silence in the face of ongoing clerical and episcopal dereliction, which has left our beloved Church in perhaps her greatest crisis since the fourth century, when perhaps 80% of the bishops went over to the Arian heretics. St. Athanasius pray for us! Almighty God send us good bishops and priests!

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:10 AM By Grisha
I think JLS just convinced me to get a dog. Our beloved Shepard Wolf mix NATO died in 2001. It's time. Now I've got to convince my wife

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:21 AM By JLS
Grisha, just get the dog and let the dog convince your wife.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:02 AM By Luz
This church and these men need our prayers I think our protestant brothers and sisters are on to something, they believe homosexuality has a demonic basis to it. what these men need is deliverance. This evil spirits main objective is to destroy the soul and send it to hell which is very easy to do once the individual is involved in a full blown homosexual affair with all it's perverse acts, including sodomy.Prayer and deliverance or maybe a series of exorcisms is in order.The sad part is even people that are not homosexual find it hard to get the help they need and can suffer for years and may have to continue to deal with oppression from the enemy because many priests today have been scared to death by the enemy and do not use the authority give to them by Christ to help others that are in so much need.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:17 AM By Laurette Elsberry
This article was about Most Holy Redeemer, but insidiously now many of the comments have changed the subject to Our Blessed Mother and now dogs. Let's stick to the subject. Rick DeLano's comments at 9:03 are execllent, and get to the point of the problem: Archbishop Niederauer must remove the pastor of Most Holy Redeemer, and clean up that parish.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 10:49 AM By Abeca Christian
Ya sure, we got a parakeet and I was hesitant but then the parakeet convinced me and now he is my buddy. He hangs out on my shoulder and fly's around the house, like he is master. When he is tired, he fly's back to his cage. Funny bird. Tee hee

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:07 PM By MarkF
Terence, the "harsh and judgemental (sic) church" does nothing more to those with SSA than she does to other sinners, namely everyone on earth. She asks us to realize that we are weak, sinful beings. The condition of SSA is so hurtful to the soul that many times the person is left in a spiral of self hatred. That comes from within my friend, not from without. The guilt that you feel is your own, not placed there by the Church. Can you get to the point, as I have done, to realize that SSA is just another of many human weaknesses? We humans tend to be lazy. We know it's wrong, but we don't beat ourselves up over it. We men in particular tend towards lust. We know it diminishes our freedom, but we don't feel immense guilt over. Some of us have SSA. It's part of the human condition. There is no need to glorify that, to be proud of it. It's not the end of the world to realize that it's not what God intended for man. But then again, neither is anger, violence, envy, sloth, etc. God still loves us in spite of all these things. But he doesn't want us to glorify these things either. Can you find a way to realize that God loves you without rejecting that his love for you and his desires for you go well beyond the kind of fallen people we are now? To say that God loves me right now does not mean that he doesn't want us to be more like Adam and Eve were meant to me. Please think about it.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 2:55 PM By Jimmy Mac
JLS asks: "Has this parish ever produced a holy soul?" How would you measure that --- do you have a "holy soul meter" that answers this question? Would you be willing to use in on some of the posters on this site? Mark F: Mr. Weldon happens to be British and that is the way they spell judgmental. Your snarkiness is uncalled for.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:22 PM By jiml
Sadly, for all gays and lesbians their lifestyle is abnormal and abhorrent, hence the desperation to try to make normal, something that is inherently abnormal. Gay pride efforts are a sick joke. And sicker still a society that permits this curse to be foisted on decent normal people. Can anyone tell me how many gays and lesbians there really are? At times it seems as the majority of the USA are in that catagory, given the sympathy, attention and support your recent presidents Clinton and Obama legislate. Are you proud odf that? How do you like being the world's leading nation of abnormality??? Then folks, its time you got up off your butts and made your feelings known...if its not alreadt too late!!! With best wishes from equally gay Ireland.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:31 PM By Rose
Laurette, looks like the editor has generously given you plenty of time on this article. Why begrudge The Holy Mother a bit of attention? Anyway it's not really off the subject if we go to her for help with this parish. You say, "we must remove the pastor...", but that's not going to happen from your pronouncement like you have some sort of authority to make that happen. Maybe, just maybe, The Blessed Mother has more power than your declaration does. I rather enjoy the dog comments, nice diversion.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:49 PM By Harv
Laurette, Your July 13, 2010 3:16 PM post quoting from the "Gay Community News", February 15-21, 1987, is really frightening. Everyone, I can believe it is a message direct from Satan himself! I'd be afraid to enter that parish so I wouldn't have to worry about being turned into salt like the residents departing Sodom and Gomorah. That church only mocks God and therefore can not be a Catholic Church because, "By your fruits you shall know them". That is not a judgement on my part, that is merely looking at the fruit and coming to a revelation! We all have that power in our God-given conscience. Pray: August Queen of Heaven, Sovereign Mistress of the Angels, who didst received from the very beginning the mission and the power to crush the serpents head, we beseech Thee to send Thy holy Angels that under Thy command and by Thy power they may pursue the evil spirits, encounter them on every side, resist their bold attacks, and drive them hence into the abyss of woe. Most Holy Mother send Thy Angels to help us and to drive the cruel enemy from us. All ye Holy Angels and Archangels help and defend us. Amen. Oh good and tender Mother, thou shalt ever be our Love and our Hope. Holy Angels and Archangels keep and defend us. Amen. Approved in the early 1930's by the ArchBishop of NY. Yesterday was the 93rd anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima's apparition to the 3 Children (Lucy, Jacinta, and Francisco) at Fatima. On the 13th of July 1917, our Blessed Mother revealed to them the sights of hell. They learned that more souls go to hell for the sins of impurity. LGBT lifestyles are sins of impurity, and so is lust and fornication for heterosexuals. Pray the 3 decades of the most Holy Rosary for souls in this world to keep them from sliding into the abyss of hell.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:54 PM By Ted
Love the sinner HATE THE SIN - The Catholic church is very clear unlike this sad parish who seems to be under the influence of SATAN - Love the sinner but don't support or promote sinning in any way - It is not a sin to be GAY but rather it is a sin to be GAY and NOT BE CELEBATE - REPENT ALL THOSE WHO PRACTICE AND PROMOTE ACTIVE PARTICIPATION IN HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVITY.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 4:14 PM By JLS
Yes, Jimmy Mac, I have a holy soul meter; would you like to buy it?

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:15 PM By C.B.
Ted, you are so right. Prayers are very much needed for those who are in a sinful lifestyle. We are in very evil times. Pope Pius the 13th and other sources warned us that in these times Satan and all his demons were going to be set loose in the world. An exorcist priest that I met stated that the flood gates were opened when we allowed abortion. The good went out and the evil came in. As our Mother Mary said, "pray, pray, pray."

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:52 PM By Lion
So the pastor is "tired of the hate mail?" You see how such perverted lust is addictive since they do not tire of that, but promote abominable sins as love. Truly from the devil, who makes evil appear as good.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:13 PM By Mark from PA
Terence, you made good points. Yes, it is a modern means to evangelise. I don't know why it angers so many people that Most Holy Redeemer church welcomes (openly) gay people in its parish. If you don't like gay people, just don't go to that church. There are surely many churches where gay people are not welcome so you can just go to one of those.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:30 PM By C.B.
Correction.....It was Pope Leo XIII that made the prediction after he saw a terrible vision of the devil being set loose with all his demons in the beginning of the last part of the 20th century and Pope Pius X warned against the modernism that was to invade the Church.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:45 PM By Mark from PA
C.B., your said that Pope Pius XIII warned that in these times Satan and all his demons were going to be set loose in the world. Did Pope Pius XIII actually put a date on this event? How would he know? Just because he was a Pope doesn't make him a fortune teller does it? You say we are in very evil times. Are times more evil than when we had slavery in our country? Are times more evil than when women and black people did not have civil rights and equality? Are times more evil than when Stalin killed millions? Are times more evil than when the Nazis unleased the Holocaust on the Jew of Europe? My father, grandfather and 6 uncles fought in World War II,. I think the world was more evil back then. I hope that the world is becoming a better place but we still have a long way to go. Letting gay people into your parish in no way compares to the horrors of World War II and a lot of other injustice in the world.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:06 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
LAUTERRE ELSBERRY-Find a dictionary, learn how to spell insidUous and find out the REAL meaning-which, should be a good lesson for you in correcting the usually correct comment language. There is NO WAY to initiate talk about the Blessed Mother INSIDUOUSLY-which means something at least "sinister" in such talk. How can you possibly object to ANY complimentary comment about the incomparable wonders of Jesus' mother? Holy Redeemer has been beaten to death in this article's comments about a $650 ad; how long do you want to scratch the same sore? For curiosity's sake, I took the time to read SEVEN of your posts in just this one batch and NOT ONE MENTIONS HOLY REDEEMER CHURCH! Was your intent insidUous?

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:10 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Mark from PA, evangelize for what Church? The church of sodomy lovers, or the Church of Jesus Christ? They are totally opposite from each other.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:16 PM By C.B.
Mark from PA, I'm well aware that the world has always been evil but in these latter times there have been more killed by abortion than all the wars put together. And for the first time in the history of the world the sanctity of marriage has been attacked. The devil is getting such delight for all the fools that he uses for his vile and evil doings. But he won't win...The Virgin Mary shall crush his head.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:18 PM By RR
Mark from PA: Why should Catholics who are faithful to God and Church Teachings have to leave their Church?? Why don't the dissenters and deviants leave and go to a "gay friendly" Protestant Church where they will be accepted and they don't have to obey God's laws.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:34 PM By CJ
"The poor you will always have with you."

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:49 PM By Mark from PA
RR, I did not say leave the Church. I was referring to a particular parish. Most Holy Redeemer parish is in the Castro area of San Francisco. It is not surprising that many gay people belong to that parish. Why should the people of that parish have to go to a Protestant Church just because some Catholics don't like gays? Perhaps some consider people that you call "deviants" to be brothers and sisters in Christ.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 8:16 PM By JLS
PA, you have read the stuff on MHR parish for well over a year, and you're trying to pretend as though your are naiive about it? It is not a Catholic parish, but only a homosexual cult with a Catholic banner.

Posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:07 PM By Rick DeLano
Poor Woody. There is no such word as "insiduous". There is such a word as "insidious". The word is quite an appropriate one to employ in describing the scandalous embrace of homosexualism and shameless flouting of Catholic teaching on the immorality and disordered nature of homosexual acts on the part of Most Holy Redeemer parish: "Main Entry: in·sid·i·ous Pronunciation: \in-ˈsi-dē-əs\ Function: adjective Etymology: Latin insidiosus, from insidiae ambush, from insidēre to sit in, sit on, from in- + sedēre to sit — more at sit Date: 1545 1 a : awaiting a chance to entrap : treacherous b : harmful but enticing : seductive (insidious drugs) 2 a : having a gradual and cumulative effect : subtle (the insidious pressures of modern life) b of a disease : developing so gradually as to be well established before becoming apparent"

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:52 AM By Susan
Why do homosexuals frequent the Catholic Church? Because the Catholic Church is the true church and Satan wants to destroy it. What better way than from inside. The only way the church will ever be whole again is to get every last homosexual priest, nun, bishop, out of the church and NEVER AGAIN accept another homosexual into a seminary or convent. The pope is doing his best to try and accomplish this but Satan is very strong and it is hard for the Pope to do this nearly alone. What a shame this has been to the Catholic Church and now for the third year, they are operating in the red from paying off all the lawsuits which the homosexuals have caused. And, yes, they are homosexuals. Not pedofiles. You dont see them abusing alter girls.. just boys and those boys can be any age. These people have ruined the church and Satan is laughing. As far as I'm concerned, the Holy Redeemer parish in San Francisco should be closed. It is better to go to no church at all than to frequent a church that accepts and promotes homosexuality.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:23 AM By WOODY GUIDRY
MR. DELANO, your gallantry is noted in defense of the lady who had the misfortune to write her comment as if she is able to defend her OWN ideas. CONCEDO (CHECK OUT THAT LATIN!), but DO realize that impugning evil motives for referring to the Blessed Mother is still bad, mean, thoughtless, and anything else evil that might be implied by either the word INSIDIOUS or INSIDUOUS. (Eisenhower's farewell speech used MY spelling!) Got to give you credit, though; you DID mention the church in question by name! I almost split my sides laughing at sections of your response! You probably are a good prospect for a script writer's job. And then I CRY, at how I can lead ANYONE away so easily from the main point by mispelling! Mea culpa!

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:22 AM By john
Of all the church closings going on in the country perhaps Holy Redeemer should become one of them.Where are we now? Read Romans 1

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:32 AM By RR
Mark from PA: I wasn't talking about the TRUE Catholics leaving the True Church either. I was referring to the deviants to leave the Catholic Church and stop bringing scandal to Christ's Church. Also, you say some people don't like gays. No, some Catholics don't want the gays bringing scandal, lies, deceit, filth, and most importantly desecration into the True Church of God.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:04 AM By Bill Sr.
An American’s Prayer for Forgiveness Heavenly Father, we as Americans have lost our way, we have forsaken your love and gone our own way into self indulgence through our desire for personal gratification in every aspect of our lives. We have lost our grip on your eternal truth. We have chosen comfort over compassion, want over worship, pleasure over penance, and now it seems personal satisfaction over salvation. Many now depend on the words and power of “Caesar” more than your eternal word. We want to come home to you as prodigal sons and daughters seeking your mercy upon us and our nation that we may be forgiven for our many offenses marked by our willingness to permit evil intent and falsehoods to creep a into our lives and society. We have not been vigilant, we have hidden our lamps under the bushel, and we have often remained silent as your tenants were judged unworthy by our authorities. As your word and laws were being removed from public buildings and our schools within the sight of our children we mumbled to ourselves rather than witness our faith to those who deny you. We’ve allowed evil to infiltrate our culture one “benefit” or “right” at a time. We seek through your mercy and forgiveness that within our nation your truth may at last be saved from corruption by those evil forces that care not for your law or love. We ask through this prayerful petition that for the sake of all the faithful here and in heaven that you might come to us as did the prodigal’s father and lead us back into your graces and grant that our beloved America may yet be returned to the one nation under God it once was and our founders intended it to be. Amen

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:19 AM By Lou Apa
Dear Fellow Christians; We need to pray...pray...pray for these "religious" who have fallen to Satan's influence to "call evil good" and to "call good evil" in the world. Repent and reform your minds to Christ! God Bless America and America bless God. lja/JMJ

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:10 AM By JLS
Rick, in that Woody resides in the sovereign state of Texas, one has to know that that state has its own national language, where such words as "insiduous" are found in the indiguness parlance.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:37 AM By Rose
Woody, (not Poor but Rich in love for The B.V.M. Woody), I agree how could anyone be so easily misled from the main point by mispelling? Laurette thoughtlessly used the word "insidiously" because the comments changed to "Our Blessed Mother" but complimented Rick in the same breath. You were so right to defend Our Mother. What an awful word to use in referring to Her in any way. Aside from this, generally the commenters (had to look that one up, thought it was commentors) here have bad grammar and terrible spelling skills. Who cares, I think we all get the drift, at least most of the time. - Ave, Ave, Ave Maria!

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:46 PM By Ski Ven
I find Maguire's writings tiring enough. Now others want to doing the dictionary shuffle. I guess it is time for the uneducated to beat a hasty retreat from here.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:49 PM By Rose
Ski Ven, I'm not sure if you're targeting one or all here, doesn't really matter to me. You're funny and your comment busted me up! LOL. BUT, one more time, words ARE important, especially when used in reference to God and His Blessed Mother!

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 1:59 PM By JLS
I just checked Laurette Elsberry's post only to discover that she spelled the word correctly "insidiously" and it does not refer to Blessed Mary Ever Virgin at all. In fact Laurette has supplied an array of excellent quotes on this thread, quotes from Church greats that make explicit the condemnation of homosexualism. She probably put considerable effort into her research to find these quotes. Readers should all file back through this thread and read what Laurette has posted. They will be blessed.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:30 PM By Ski Ven
I am uneducated, I am allowed to garble my posts.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 2:37 PM By Rose
JLS, I don't know how you could miss Laurette's insinuation that bad motives inspired remarks about the Blessed Mother. What's the problem with bringing up the Blessed Mother? It took nothing away from the excellent quotes Laurette put up on the 13th. Where is Laurette anyway?

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:18 PM By C.B.
I believe some of us are very sensitive when it comes to mentioning Our Blessed Mother. We want to defend her against anything that does not seem very respectable. As for Woody and Rose, mention Holy Mother Mary as much as possible because I love seeing her name. All her titles are like a beautiful prayer.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:23 PM By Patrick
Rick, In your blog posted Wednesday, July 14, 2010 9:03 AM you were highly critical of the magesterium marking their great faults. You ended by saying "In the meantime I will do what I can to advance the Church's teaching, short of binding myself to silence in the face of ongoing clerical and episcopal dereliction, which has left our beloved Church in perhaps her greatest crisis since the fourth century, when perhaps 80% of the bishops went over to the Arian heretics. St. Athanasius pray for us! Almighty God send us good bishops and priests!" I do agree with you, but can not understand why you are so willing to stand behind a magesterium that is fraught with the likes of men you describe. May God guide us all in doing His holy Will and show us His Way, Truth, and Light to our eternal salvation. Pray the 3 decades of the Holy Rosary, for we are all children in need of a Holy Mother the Church that is truly Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:31 PM By JLS
Ski Ven, the word is correctly spelled "unedyoomakatid".

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:36 PM By JLS
The post in question: "This article was about Most Holy Redeemer, but insidiously now many of the comments have changed the subject to Our Blessed Mother and now dogs. Let's stick to the subject": Could be better phrased; I'd say it means that the topic is being avoided. Laurette follows this sentence by encouraging Rick D who kept on track.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 3:41 PM By JLS
The Magisterium is the infallibility of the Church consisting in the pope and the bishops. Rick did not criticize the Magisterium.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:09 PM By Rick DeLano
Patrick: The magisterium does not reside in the pastoral decisions of individual bishops. Christ promised us an infallible teaching magisterium, not an infallibly governing one.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:12 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Thank you, RLS, that is exactly what I meant. It seemed to me that the "gay"-friendly commenters wanted to get away from the evident truths and so decided basically to just change the subject. To me this was a sneaky trick - insidious in the sense that it was a deliberate subterfuge to get off the topic.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:47 PM By C.B.
Laurette, You are showing your true colors. MEOW

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 4:56 PM By Jimmy Mac
"Yes, Jimmy Mac, I have a holy soul meter; would you like to buy it?" No, JLS, my soul doesn't need divination by you or any other people on this earth.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:06 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
JLS-Texans are ever ready to send you the obvious help needed. You got our San Antonio bishop and there are some people who think L.A. got a pretty good deal. Arf, arf! (Get Delano to check the spelling of the last two words.)

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:33 PM By JLS
Jimmy Mac, you asked for a "holy soul meter", not an earthly one. Were you looking to buy?

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:35 PM By JLS
Woody, the only gripe I have against Texas is that they have not yet annexed the United States. Hopefully you folks get it done before the UN does.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 5:41 PM By perrywRinkle
Elsberry, you suspect that MENTIONING the Mother of God is a cheap trick. Have you checked any QUOTES by those you claim are gay friendly? MORE IMPORTANTLY-have you ever noticed NICE things said about the Blessed Mother EXCEPT Catholics? The Presbyterians are presently giving the homosexual community the publicity which you desire to have us CATHOLICS give. Catholics have given a home to Anglicans- and others- who have been driven out by gay controversy. The Church is capable of handling things as well as it did pre-Elsberry. MARY was thrown out by the people who abandoned CATHOLICISM. Why help them?

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:03 PM By NUTUNE
DIANE DEAR, I've been a little shy about thanking you for your gracious welcome to the Church-because you wrote to a person not knowing that I am a "cradle" Catholic. I am still pleased at your display of warmth and obvious confidence that the Church is a shelter to all of us needing refuge (and who DOESN'T need it?!) Now, don't you DARE be embarrassed! ANYONE who reads your welcome will be happy to observe the shelter of love which you obviously have enjoyed, and, in the event that they haven't enjoyed that shelter, then your letter is a great witness for what awaits them! (I believe I know to whom your heartfelt message was addressed and, if noticed, I think the intended person will respond!)

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 6:21 PM By JLS
Laurette did not criticize anyone for saying good things. She blasted those who want to avoid correcting the homosexuals. PerrywRinkle, when you put blind faith into conjured up abstract ideas such as "the Church" as expressed in the way you phrase it, to wit, "The Church is capable of handling things as well as it did pre-Elsberry", what you achieve is silly. Go back and read carefully what she posted, then read my explanation of it, and then read her comment on that explanation; then read your post again. What you have done is unnecessary. There are enough enemies of the Church to battle, and thus you have no need to make a punching bag out of Laurette, who has not said anything even close to what you launch against her.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 8:02 PM By JLS
NUTUNE, she obviously sees something that you would do well to attend to. Not sure what it is, but it's there. I think you should be more open in your posts ... remember these are only posts on a blog site and your identity is unknown to the bloggers. When you pondered whether I am a mama's boy, and confessed that you are, it opened up a worthy path to further growth in faith. We seem to represent two different approaches to adoration of Blessed Mary Ever Virgin. You said you see her through your mother; I said I see her in a kind of mystical and intellectual way. To you She is warm; to me such a feeling is not quite the issue. What is it that fascinates you to the extent that you would like to explore the aura God has given us for our awareness?

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 9:48 PM By Della
JLS Excuse me but Adoration of the Blessed Virgin Mary...God alone is Adored. We an talk to her (pray) and she guides us to Jesus.At Cana she said "Do whatever He says". We honor her and love her because she is the sinless mother of Jesus.

Posted Thursday, July 15, 2010 11:50 PM By JLS
You bring up an excellent point, Della. There is a difference between God and any creature including Blessed Mary Ever Virgin. You motivated me to do some research, so I read an article in the Catholic Encyclopedia on adoration. Not only the English word, "adore", is insufficient to deal with this issue, but also the Latin language does not provide a single word which is sufficient; however, Greek does have a precise word for describing adoration of God and not of any other. So, the best that the English language can do is the word, "adore", and we can use it referring to God or to a creature exalted by God, such as Blessed Mary Ever Virgin. Part of adoring Blessed Mary Ever Virgin is worshiping God who created her and gave her to us so that we may see Him in His works, since we cannot see Him directly. "To Jesus through Mary, and to Mary through Jesus" is a mysterious contemplation given us by a great Saint, St Francis de Sales ... All ages shall call her Blessed; thus, we can also say "To Jesus through Blessed, and to Blessed through Jesus": We gain Jesus by living the blessing He has bestowed on us, namely faith; and we gain this blessing of faith through Jesus. The Holy Eucharist is our means and our end: To Jesus through the Holy Eucharist, and to the Holy Eucharist through Jesus". We can gain God through the senses, and we can gain our senses through God. Unity with God provides us with life, and life provides us with unity with God. In other words, at some point it is, as the mocker of God wrote, All for one and one for all: but in truth, that is in the highest degree this concept is a concept of union between God and creation. Blessed Mary is perfect even as our Heavenly Father is perfect, because Jesus tells us to be perfect even as our Heavenly Father is perfect. Thus, in that Mary has achieved this through grace and not through time, even though through her Fiat, because in God there is no time. Thanks, Della.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 1:28 AM By WOODY GUIDRY
JLS-Will you agree to the first renovation of your whimsical Catholicity beginning with the LAST glaring error you just wrote? The following are magisterial approved terms which have to do with various degrees of devotion to those in heaven. #1. CULT, CULTUS is equivalent to worship (q.v.), adoration, veneration. But it is generally used with particular reference to the "HYPERDULIA" (q.v.) accorded to our Lady, the "DULIA" (q.v.) given to the saints and the relative DULIA to their relics, pictures, etc. Thus, the Iconoclast Controversy was one concerning the cult of images. The word is cognate with "cultivation" (cf., the cult of the slim figure) and derives ultimately from Latin "colere, to till. Granted, the word "adoration" IS used for those less than God, but it is BETTER to distinguish those by use of the word VENERATION therefore. In reference to your latest error, your second (#2)lesson will address the next-to-last error. YOU ARE in error when you say that the best the Enlish language can do is the word "adore" applied to Mary, mother of Jesus, We will address that second latest mistake in our next session when we address your loose implication that any being can ever be as perfect as Almighty God. May I ask-Do you believe that you can be perfect because Scripture says that Jesus tells us to be perfect even as our Heavenly Father is perfect? Equality with God is not a statement of certitude by the Church. Of course, ANY SCRIPTURAL INTREPRETATION IS CORRECT SINCE LUTHER JUMPED OFF THE CHURCH AND LEFT BEHIND ANY KIND OF ALLUSION TO THE MOTHER OF GOD BEHIND!

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 7:12 AM By Rose
Laurette, what seemed to you that the "gay" friendly commenters wanted to get away with, seems to me a sneaky nasty backhanded little way of putting certain people down without having to say their names. You managed to outrage a few people with your comment about bringing up The Blessed Mother and kept the subject away from homosexuality your own self.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 8:23 AM By JLS
A. I pulled it from the Catholic Encyclopedia. B. I never said "equality with God.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 9:59 AM By JLS
Woody, myabe my Catholicism would not be so whimsical if you cradle Catholics had bothered to learn the religion sufficiently so as to communicate effectively.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 12:54 PM By Della
JLS Thanks I appreciate your comment.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 2:09 PM By JLS
Likewise, Della, I appreciate the motivation to dig into the topic.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 2:56 PM By Patrick
Rick, Please point me to the reference that supports where you said: "Christ promised us an infallible teaching magisterium, not an infallibly governing one."? Blessed be God in His angels and in His saints.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 4:07 PM By JLS
Jesus told us that the Church would never fail. He also told us that He was praying that the shepherds never became scattered. Yet we can see that if it were necessary for Him to make such a prayer, then it would be possible that the shepherds could be scattered. Thus the governance of the Church is not guaranteed by God.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 5:27 PM By Rick DeLano
Patrick: Certainly. CCC #2305: "The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed." Thus infallibility pertains strictly to the divine revelation, and to doctrine, including moral doctrine. It does not extend to the pastoral decisions of the pastors.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 6:23 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Laurette, Thanks for the great quotes. I have placed them in my reference files. God bless, yours in Their Hearts, Kenneth M. Fisher

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 9:04 PM By Patrick
CCC#2305. That is from post Vatican II. Researching further back in RCC history reveals: The attribute of infallibility means the inability and impossibility of the Teaching Magisterium to err when teaching the universal Church on matters of faith and morals. As Vatican Council I taught: “Moreover, by divine and Catholic faith, everything must be believed that is contained in the written word of God or in tradition, and that is proposed by the Church as a divinely revealed object of belief either in a solemn decree or in her ordinary, universal teaching.” The possessors of infallibility are: a) the Pope (when he speaks ex cathedra), and b) the whole Episcopate. An excellent explanation is found in Christ’s Church, by Monsignor G. Van Noort, S.T.D.: “The charism of infallibility was bestowed upon the Church so that she could piously safeguard and confidently explain the deposit of Christian revelation, and thus could be in all ages the teacher of Christian truth and of the Christian way of life. “The Church’s infallibility extends to the general discipline of the Church. This proposition is theologically certain. By the term ‘general discipline of the Church’ are meant those ecclesiastical laws passed for the universal Church for the direction of Christian worship and Christian living. “The well-known axiom, Lex orandi est lex credendi (The law of prayer is the law of belief) is a special application of the doctrine of the Church’s infallibility in disciplinary matters. This axiom says in effect that formulae of prayer approved for public use in the universal Church cannot contain errors against faith or morals.” How does this apply to ecumenism and religious liberty which the Church condemned for 1900 years? This is different from CCC#2305. It only goes to show, how much has changed. Praised be God in His angels and in His saints.

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 10:41 PM By Rick DeLano
Patrick: Since nothing that your source states contradicts CCC #2305 in any way, I can only suggest that you are failing to understand the teachings of your own source. Your own source tells you that the charism of infallibility was bestowed on the Church, and Christ tells you that the Church will never lose this divine charism until the end of the world (Mt 16:18-19). How strange then that you should immediately forget your own source's teaching, and arrogate to yourself the infallible magisterium, and claim an error in the Catechism which teaches exactly what your own source just taught you! You are horribly confused, and only faith in Christ and humble return to the True Church and her magisterium will rectify your confusion. Blessed be God......

Posted Friday, July 16, 2010 11:30 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
JLS, it's of obvious importance to you; let me follow by saying that I won't instruct you in the reverse order that you have made error. FIRST-Let's look at "to be perfect even as our Heavenly Father is perfect." You say you never said "equality with God". Neither did I! You DID SAY the blessed Mother is PERFECT EVEN AS OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS PERFECT. So long as you keep Divine Perfection as UNIQUE to God, Himself, ONLY, we won't persue it any more. So, accept that God is unique in His being and let's progress to another comment you made- you "pulled" it from the Catholic Encyclopedia. Did you pull it all the way out-if you're sharp, then that Encyclopedia needs closer editing. I'll say this only once-I expect a student who will ever LEARN FROM ANOTHER will be more circumspect than is displayed in your comment disparaging my ability! You know that a teacher has a tremendous conscientious duty-I can blame only ME, if I have been remiss in my own study or purpose. My ability to teach Catholicism has been subject to yearly review for twenty years-I was once principal of our entire CCD program. I have personally taught the entire subject to several adult individuals on a one-to-one basis (and witnessed their having believed the truth) when our pastor was overloaded. Only ONE student took a single lesson from me and never returned! When I reported it to my pastor, he told me not to be concerned because the same student had done the same thing to him! That's the last time your disparagement will be mentioned. Thank God I AM a cradle Catholic; you think cradle Catholics don't know enough to communicate effectively. The FIRST Catholic HAD to be cradle! A frog wouldn't bump his tail end if he had wings, either-but we don't have unreal expections of frogs. I will conclude, until the next lesson, by saying that you are completely irresponsible in acting as if you can teach authentic Catholicity. You are part of the problem-not the solution.

Posted Saturday, July 17, 2010 7:30 AM By JLS
Woody, it's a mystery worth contemplating. Your calumny against me is bizarre. I think your mistake is the presumption that I am claiming to teach Catholic doctrine. You exhibit a kind of obstinacy against perspective, even challenging a renowned Catholic reference because it does not word the matter the way you would like. Your extolling of cradle Catholicism makes you more like a Jew than a Catholic; Catholicism grows by conversion. Even cradle Catholics have to convert to Christ. Consider the parable Jesus tells about the farmer sowing seed ... it has to be planted in good soil and watered. Are you satisfied that both you and your pastor failed to present the faith to someone seeking it? Were the both of you so humble as to refer that soul to another teacher who might be effective, or did you merely curse him? I grew up with Jews, and that is what you come across as.

Posted Saturday, July 17, 2010 2:02 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
No, even a dog would be stupid to say you teach Catholic doctrine-you just pretend to. One important correction amongst many lesser ones-- a CRADLE Catholic does NOT have to convert to Christ. Once BAPTIZED Catholic, you are ALWAYS Catholic! Please, check on the word, "extolled"; Jews don't extol Catholics. Check on more than ONE reference book. an authorized Catholic Dictionary would be good, if you can afford only one more. I'll tell you my private conscience, if you'll tell me why dogs take perference over your wife! I DO have lots of Jewish friends, but I admit to Jesus Christ as being foremost. among them. I hope you meet Him one day. He's old-almost 300 years older than the written book people call the Bible.

Posted Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:46 PM By perrywRinkle
JEWS are somehow your enemy? And Woody is now part of that? Your false remarks can be tracked by sifting through the debris of straw you write-if anybody thinks it's worth the digging! Have you noticed as you grew up with Jews that they are markedly different from other people? Have you turned them in yet? I have a friend in the LA police department (a Jew) who could hold you up with one hand by the hair (if any) on your head and check the condition of your knee-caps. I'll bet they are all calloused by your constant praying for liberation from Jews. After all, you DID grow up with them-you SAY. WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST MOVE-I BELIEVE THE JEWS WOULD HAVE HELPED YOU.

Posted Saturday, July 17, 2010 3:59 PM By JLS
Woody, I didn't realize you were used to giving up so easily.

Posted Saturday, July 17, 2010 4:07 PM By perrywRinkle
JEWS! They're bad and Woody has been "come across as?" What did he cross? Did you grow up with other Jews who came across something else before they came across you?! I believe they could have made it across the desert in 80 years, instead of 40, with your enlightened guidance! Why don't you entertain us with more fascinating stories about your dogs all told with tongue in cheek. Even just use YOUR tongue-or ANYTHING EXCEPT A WRITING INSTRUMENT. And keep your tongue out of ANY paint-they can check your identity by tracing your tongue prints! IT'S A NEW JEWISH DISCOVERY. They ARE smart, you know.

Posted Monday, July 19, 2010 6:41 AM By WOODY GUIDRY
JSL-JUST ADD THAT FACT TO THE MOUNTAIN OF OTHERS YOU DON'T REALIZE. OR START AGAIN THE MOUNTAIN OF CORRESPONDENCE YOU AND MAGUIRE CONCOCT TO AMAZE THOSE WHO HAVE A LOT MORE UNIMPORTANT TASKS AND REDUCE THE NUMBER OF SUBSCRIBERS THIS JOURNAL HAS TO SERVICE.

Posted Monday, July 19, 2010 6:55 AM By NUTUNE
JLS-IT IS NOT EXCITING TO FIND MY ATTEMPTS TO HELP YOU MISQUOTED. WHY SHOULD ANYONE RESPOND TO YOUR QUERIES WITH HONESTY, IF YOU LIE AS YOU QUOTE THEM LATER? MAN, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. SERIOUSLY, TALK TO A SPECIALIST.

Posted Monday, July 19, 2010 10:13 PM By Editor
This thread is closed to further comments. [Editor]

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