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Published: September 17, 2009
Boy in a Bikini, Other Gay Films
Get Wide Audience in California Schools
News from Pacific Justice Institute
 San Francisco -- A San Francisco group billing itself as "the best in LGBT media" is claiming hundreds of public schools in California have signed up to show its films and use accompanying discussion materials. One film features a boy "coming out" by wearing his mother's bikini. Another film incorporates Native American spiritualism to cast LGBT (lesbian, gay bisexual and transgender) persons as "two-spirit" people.
The films and school materials are being distributed by Youth in Motion, a partnership between Frameline and Gay-Straight Alliance Network. YIM can be accessed here (warning: may contain offensive content). The films are accompanied by a "curriculum guide" and "action guide." Among other things, the guides encourage students to question whether religious and cultural celebrations, such as Jewish bar mitzvahs, wrongly discourage homosexual and transgender lifestyles.
The list of schools claimed to use these materials include scores of high schools throughout the state, as well as a few middle and junior high schools, and at least one elementary school in San Leandro, California. While many of the affected schools are located in the Bay Area and Southern California, other regions - including the Sacramento area and small communities in the Central Valley and the Sierras - are also affected.
[Editor's Note: at least one Catholic school, Notre Dame in Belmont, is on the list.]
Parents are strongly encouraged to check the list of affected schools here or call Pacific Justice Institute to determine whether the Youth in Motion curriculum is being used in their child's school.
To see the full list, click here.
The Pacific Justice Institute can be reached at (916) 857-6900.
Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:37 AM By ted
I taught in a California community college for 19 years. As those years passed, my students' written work steadily declined in quality. Many could not read and write at all effectively, and some appeared functionally illiterate. So where do schools get the time to present gay propaganda materials when they could be teaching how to write a coherent sentence in English? This is an absolute disgrace on many levels. Where are the parents? This reminds me of a scene in "Spaceballs."
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:41 AM By St. Christopher
Satan is wise, and St. Paul marveled at his ingenuity. This approach to the captured innocent is pure evil and must be opposed. Of course, our moral guardians -- the bishops -- are no where to be seen. (Most likely they are still quarreling about the few -- one -- who stood up and protested the lavish spectacle of Senator Kennedy's Catholic public funeral.)
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:22 AM By Thomas Edward Miles
WHO CARES AND WHY, COULD YOU FIT IN YOUR MOTHERS BIKINI?!
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 6:32 AM By Richard Perozich
None of this will be shown at St. Mary School Escondido.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:27 AM By Brenda
My son went to public school from K to 2. He was molested in second grade. I pulled him out and put him in private school. It was very satisfactory in private school.
Finally when he was in high school, I decided to home school him. It was the best decision we ever made. We choose ourselves which classes he wants. He is taking computer classes and PE classes at the local community college as well.
There are so many resources available to homeschool. Just wish we had done it earlier. Same with my 2 older kids, they went to private high school and it was excellent. However, would have loved more time and bonding with them through homeschool.
The things my best friend tells me about public high school would just curl your hair. And she lives in an expensive neightborhood and goes to the "best" public high school She just hopes her kids make it out in one piece, does not want to pay for private nor homeschool.
The point is that people make choices. Some want their kids to get the above LGBT curriculum. Others do not and they make the sacrifice and effort to get a different curriculum. I'm simply amazed at how many resources there are for homeschool in my area. We have co-ops where parents who are for example, math majors, teach Algebra 2 and other math courses. For kids that are in higher math, it's off to community college. You can attend community college at any age as a home schooler. My son started community college at 17, some homeschool students start at 15. They have their AA by 18 years old! UNLIKE public high school, at community college you choose your own classes.
I take jr college classes at the same time my son does and it keeps me busy and happy. Consider homeschool!
Hope this helps someone. Oh, btw, in California, community college is literally almost free. Cost is sooo minimal.
My son is productively and happily busy from 9 am to 2 pm at community college. No one "hassles" him or "teases" him as in public school.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:12 AM By kathy
Between health clinics (PP) and gay films, it feels like high school is being politicized...it stinks of indoctrination. Notre Dame principal should get a dressing down from the local O and issue an apology to the parents. He's a cause of scandal to the Church.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:22 AM By Abeca Christian
This is disgusting. What this stuff does is only bring out more hatred against them. It will only encourage more hatred not respect! I pity them that they don't realize how this will back fire on them and on the confused children of this society.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:15 AM By Pax Christi
Thank God none of this stuff is anywhere near Bakersfield. It's one of the few places not infected by this distorted mentality.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:29 PM By MarkF
Remember, it never stops. They may talk about AIDS education, but if the source is a homosexual group, the real goal is indoctrination. They may talk about bullying, but the real goal if the group is homosexual is to promote homosexuality. And weren't the people of California told that homosexual "marriage" would NOT end up as an excuse for homosexual propaganda? Weren't we told how silly we were all being? It's worth saying one more time - It will never end. We're being swindled with a shell game, the real goal is the destruction of the normal and the method is underhanded, sly, deceptive, and tricky. Scratch the surface of these homosexual activists and what you'll find is real hatred of the normal. Their tactics are meant to get us angry. Best thing to do - don't respond. Note the tactics, note the attempts to incite anger, but move on.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 1:32 PM By JLS
It often helps to put your boys into martial arts classes early on in life. Encourage them into competitive sports involvement. But do not pick the schools where the boys and girls mix it up that way.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:29 PM By MarkF
A bikini? Yes, that assuredly will reinforce a boy's journey into a healthy adult as a man. Who but a hardened hater could be against this? I've seen young guys like this who buy into this "I'm a fag" propaganda. They start out acting normal. Then they think they're supposed to prance around like Tinkerbell. Then at the end of the night I'd see them in the corner crying. I'm sick of it. This isn't producing self-esteem.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:21 PM By Mark from PA
The Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis has been in the forefront in making sure that its Catholic schools provide a safe environment for gay students. An excellent resource is "Creating Safe Environments for LGBT Students: A Catholic Schools Perspective" by Michael J. Bayly. Many Catholic schools are fighting bullying and fostering an atmosphere of tolerance towards gay and also other minority students.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:29 PM By betty
at my grandson's schol parents were given the "right" to have their child excused from sex education classes so my daughter did. He was 10 years old, in fifth grade at the time. Then the school nurse had a "little talk" with her to tell her that she was hurting her child by making him "different" from the other students. This same nurse talked to my grandson privately and asked him if he felt bad about being excused from classes that his classmates were attending. One other parent had her daughter excused. My daughter was furiously angry at this school nurse who had this little "private talk" with her son
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:21 PM By MarkF
JLS, while I think that sports is great for most boys, it's not so much the athletic part itself that is so good, it's the socializing in the kid's peer group and especially the mentoring from the coach. I can't imagine what my life would have been like if I had that when I was about six or seven years old.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:30 PM By Grisha
Mark F: Not that it likely applies here but (please don't be offended ladies) back in the '70s when it was a) in style and b.) I was a lot thinner; my wife bought me a 3 pack of men's bikini underwear. They were uncomfortable and I’ve gone with boxers ever since.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:42 PM By Anne T.
Ted, when I was graduated from highschool in 1960, California had some of the best public schools in the nation, even in the working class and poorer areas, and the nation had some of the finest schools and colleges in the world. I have been told that the highschool journalism classes of the 50's in California were equivalent to some college classes now. This is disgraceful. When I read such articles as this one, I know why "Johnnie can't read". Too many teachers and textbooks are busy showing and telling the students how not to obey good parents, if the young people are lucky enough to have them, and how not to be disciplined instead of teaching their pupils to control their urges and practice virtue. Quite often the parents themselves are undisciplined and care more about their relationship with their latest girlfriend or boyfriend than helping their own children. No wonder there is no control in the highschools and colleges now, with students killing other students on campus--a thing unheard of forty years ago. Time is usually like a pendulum. Let us pray it swings back.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:07 PM By JH
The list provided is not accurate. I teach at Chico High School in Chico, California and checked with our teaching staff. These materials have not been used with students at Chico High. The materials may have been sent to a teacher for preview purposes (which is a common practice of publishers) but they have not been used in a class. By the way, I am a member of St. John the Baptist Parish in Chico.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:41 PM By kevin
Just remember that the beginning of the PC movement in schools started with the catholic LA mayor. This coincides with the self esteem education movement he promoted in California which has turned out to be a huge failure. It was just a shifting of the responsibilities of parents towards blaming the state for how their son/daughter turned out.
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Posted Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:44 PM By Abeca Christian
MarkF you said it right! We have so many irresponsible adults who condone such unproductive films, and to have them be approved for school use! This is another form of child abuse if you ask me. Folks if you are thankful that it is not near your area, be thankful but don't think that it won't come soon because this stuff is like cancer, it is infecting our kids and their peers, they have parents who are just as sick as these individuals who see nothing wrong with these films. Just like MarkF expressed, we need to show positive role models for all kids now a days, we need to raise boys to be men, not cross dressers. Come on people, if we blame this young generation for being so awful, we have to rethink that because it is the sick adults who are bringing down our youth with this garbage! The adults are the ones who are making the laws and who vote, not the kids.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 12:07 AM By Abeca Christian
I wanted to share with you what one friend of ours who is struggling to leave the homosexual lifestyle what his thoughts are. I wish he would of posted them on his own but refused to right now because of his struggles. He expressed to us that even though he is living a very "sinful" (these were his words) lifestyle that he would never mess with children and their developing minds and growth, that he would not mess with God and His laws when it came to voting yes on 8, he was actually for it because he felt that even though he lived with another man and wanted acceptance that he still appreciated growing up with a mom and dad and felt it was wrong for the homosexual agenda to try to change the definition of marriage. He was angered by this article (I showed it to him, I wanted his honest opinion) because he said that this sort of stuff only adds more harm to the child who is struggling with their identity. He said that it only brings more pain to him, he wouldn't go into detail but he felt embarrassed that some on the gay community would stoop so low to encourage these sort of films to be brought to schools. He said that one of the main reasons the gay agenda is being so vigilante it is because they want to indoctrinate more children into this lifestyle because then that would mean that it was normal and it would proof to society that it was genetic. Form the minds of the young and you will win. He expressed his pain and disappointment. He said that the homosexuals who are working hard to win laws in their favor, can be very vindictive, violent and cruel because they will not accept anyone who speaks out against their tactics. He was one of them and now living with aids, this has brought great pain to him and when he see's this society embrace more and more the lies of the so called "gay agenda" that it only makes him feel sicker and it brings back many haunting memories.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 12:19 AM By Abeca Christian
One more thing a child that goes to my nephew's school, he is only in 2nd or 3rd grade, the other day said to my nephew "hi boyfriend" My nephew was taken aback and said in disbelief "what?" The boy proceeded to say "I am gay". My nephew was in shock and didn't know what to say but "no your not!". Now tell me, how does an innocent child know about such things, such word usage, if this isn't indoctrination, then what is? How can a child who is innocent know of these things? He must have seen it or heard it some place, it must have been placed there for him to ponder. These are young impressionable minds, a person or persons with disorders can do so much harm to children when they start them off early on the wrong path. Someone has affected this child, the harm is there! I wanted to look into it because I suspecting that perhaps this child is being raised by homosexuals or activists, I can only speculate. Just think back, I remember being in 2nd grade, I never went out and said hey I am heterosexual. Who does that, unless the child is being indoctrinated or being taught something at a very early age that this child can not just yet comprehend. It tore me up and this was a very sad day for me. I prayed for this child and still do.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 4:08 AM By Tony
Reading some of the comments here, I have to feel sorry for your children should any of them happen to be gay. I can't imagine that any of the people who accuse Youth In Motion of "indoctrination" or worse are prepared to deal with the very real possibility that their loved ones might need to come out in some way or another.
Schools try to deal with these issues (albeit not always perfectly) because so-called normal families are ill-equipped to offer any guidance to confused young people. If your parents are clueless, the church is openly hostile and your entire young life is spent trying to accept a "normal" sexuality (whatever that means), then where can you turn to?
Homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity. It is an accepted phenomenon of the human condition. You can rant and rave all you want, but it will continue to manifest itself in people, perhaps even your own children. If you can accept this, then you should understand why discussing the topic in school will help those who are "confused" and maybe educate straight kids who are not "confused" about their sexuality, and never will be. In the end, no "indoctrination" will make a straight kid gay, and no level of intolerance will make a gay kid straight.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 7:50 AM By Grisha
Our daughter didn't socialize well in middle school. It was pretty rough on her. She went to a public "magnet" (not charter) school which drew a lot of practices from Catholic schools and did very well there. She later did her student teaching there. With home schooling, even with community college classes (She took some as a HS student) she would have been too isolated from her peers. In HS she made life long friends and is going to a classmate's wedding this weekend. Home schooling is not for everyone.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 9:36 AM By Anne T.
Tony, I do believe that children should not call each other names in school--even names pertaining to sexuality, but this stuff is just indoctrination. Therefore, I disagree with most of your post. When I went to public highschool, we knew some of the teachers and students were probably practicing homosexuals, but we would have never dared to ask a teacher about his or her sexuality, and they would never have told us. That is the way it should be. Students are there to learn the basics, not whom has gone to bed with whom. Quite frankly, most of us really don't care til it is shoved in our faces by things such as this or by epedemics of venereal disease, including AIDS.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 11:23 AM By Peter
Right on, Tony!
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 12:46 PM By Canisius
Tony, then may "intolerance" reign forever since you can utter the word truth like most liberals.
2)" It is an accepted phenomenon of the human condition". Only accepted by perverts and sexual anarchist whose lives are controlled by their libido's and desires
3)"so-called normal families" -no actual they are normal not so called.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 1:07 PM By MarkF
Abeca, ask your friend if he would contact me directly. I think that both of us could profit from this. My e-mail is outnaway@hotmail.com. He is so right about the hostility of professional homosexuals...we see it on here a lot...the shy, timid facade that masks more hostility and anger than anything I've encountered personally in a long time. And Tony, you don't know what you're talking about. I've been in the homosexual world and in the Church and I got treated much worse by the homosexuals. No one in the Church or Protestants even have ever said anything to me personally about my same-sex orientation or my past. You refuse to separate out the behavior from the person, but you are not going to get away from it here. Let me set you straight, "...trying to accept a "normal" sexuality (whatever that means), then where can you turn to?" Normal means HEALTHY, is OPEN TO LIFE and through which LIFE comes into the word. Where can they turn? To Christ and his Church who will wash away our sins. "Homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity. It is an accepted phenomenon of the human condition. You can rant and rave all you want, but it will continue to manifest itself in people." It has been around a long time but so has adultery and incest. But it has NEVER been accepted, not by Christianity, not by Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism or even pagan religions. But yes, as long as man is in his fallen body, all sin will be with us. Does that make it right? Normal, my friend, equals life. Sin equals death.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 1:16 PM By Tony
Anne T., I do agree that a school should teach the basics as a core goal and I do agree that many of our schools have a lot of work ahead of them in this regard. No argument there. But a good education involves more than the three Rs. We spent a lot of time in my school at an early age learning about the Holocaust, the Civil Rights movement, the Industrial Revolution, the American Revolution, etc....all before we left Middle School. My history teacher had escaped Nazi-occupied Austria, my English teacher was a former rocket scientist (literally!) and I am a refugee from communist E. Europe. Difficult, unpleasant and controversial issues, when taught well in school, should not impede one's ability to multiply or use the English language. In my experience they added to the depth of knowledge that made me appreciate the luxury of being educated. Introducing the concept of homosexuality in the schools can be done in a mature, productive fashion for all kids, so long as those kids are mature enough to benefit from it (again, we need to return to the parents on that one). If we treat homosexuality as that dirty little secret that "dare not speak its name", the point (and the opportunity for enrichment) will be lost on any kid. I have three kids who have grown up in multiple countries and we speak at least two languages at the dinner table (sometimes more). I have been invited to Passover Saders and Ramadan dinners. I have tried to give my kids as much exposure to as much that life has to offer. I expect no less from their school. What they do with that knowledge depends on how mature they will be in applying it to their lives. I took a look at the Youth In Motion website and can't find anything there that my kids will not be able to deal with now or in the future. Even "indoctrination" can be a learning experience. In fact, isn't school, itself, "indoctrination"?
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 1:17 PM By MarkF
Abeca, that kid in the second grade who said he's gay is in the middle of a huge psychological and spiritual crisis and needs your help if at all possible. I can guarantee there this is no father around this poor kid. So he feels less of a man and now some snake has told him that he's gay. While I'm not a big believer in reparative therapy, I do think that a child of this age can be helped into a normal life. His mother and especially his father needs to know this. This kid needs our prayers, and lots of them. If he is baptized then he is part of the body of Christ and we have communion with him. Prayers to make him a homosexual are an abomination and only God knows what sort of guilt that would incur. Lets all here who read this offer up this Sunday's Mass for this poor child and ask God to send him an angel to help him in this life.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 1:55 PM By Tony
Anne, one more thing....does the introduction of homosexuality into the classroom mean nothing more than who goes to bed with whom, or who has a venereal disease/AIDS? According to your last post, it does. If this were true, YIM would, indeed, be a waste of time for all. Especially to those who can't see past these things and understand that issues of homosexuality include far more than climbing into bed with someone. Look at the YIM web site and you'll see a Swedish Film called "Patrick 1.5". I happened to see this film last week. I suggest you see it, and then think about your next post. Gay people are getting married, having kids, adopting kids, trying to fight for their country in Afghanistan and Iraq, trying to place their partners on their health insurance, and generally doing other similarly radical things to promote their agenda (mostly tied to being productive, happy and married in modern America). The Swedish film doesn't talk about wearing bras, or AIDS, or being promiscuous. In fact, it challenges notions that some homosexuals feel that adopting a child somehow spells the end of their "gay lifestyles". If a film promotes wearing a bra, then it should be shown to older kids who can understand the message, but not banned outright. I can't understand the issue here. No one should force the Catholic Church to introduce any agenda it doesn't agree with. And, if a parent chooses to home school, then that is his/her right. But public schools are for teaching public issues, amongst other things, and I cannot see, given today's reality, how pushing pertinent, mature topics related to homosexuality back under the rug benefits anyone at all.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 2:13 PM By Mark from PA
Tony, that bears repeating, "No indoctrination will make a straight kid gay, and no level of intolerance will make a gay kid straight." Do we all understand this?
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 3:04 PM By kevin
I wonder how many parents are in denial that their son/daughter may be gay/lesbian. For those of us who grew up and work around people who are this topic does come up. Many admit they grew up in a repressive household with limited communication especially when it came to the issue of sex. Don't ask don't tell should be the motto for the rampant homosexuality in both Catholic and Jewish private schools. I could give facts, figures, and examples and many would still choose to remain in denial and not accept Gods reaping and sowing.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 3:54 PM By JLS
Tony, your claim that homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity is an ignorant statement. Christ was "around" before time began; whereas homosexuality started up some time after that. Evidently Peter, who knows this, uses it as all homosexuals do, which is to capitalize on any possible launch pad for deception.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 4:03 PM By JLS
MarkF, one important part of competitive sports is learning how not to get the stuffings beat out of yourself. Another part is learning how to obey rules and ethics when trying to beat the stuffings out of your opponents. The result creates great character and socializes man in his basic enterprises and missions, so that he does not wreck the land but builds the City of God. Societies have to defend themselves, and without any home or community basis for learning this, then the society resides enslaved to another. Another benefit to learning young is that bodies heal fast and completely ... try to absorb a few kicks, blows, tumbles, strains, bruises when older and the peak of performance will not have been attained. Obviously some boys have health issues and we all have to respect this and provide for it ... which is why parents should be involved so they can monitor their kids and see if there is a problem. Ideal, yes. But it is also practical and must be striven for. Better a few dinged kids than an enslaved community. Respect and honor is part of this game of life.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 4:15 PM By JLS
Yes, MarkF, "it's the socializing in the kid's peer group and especially the mentoring from the coach. I can't imagine what my life would have been like if I had that when I was about six or seven years old." -- MarkF, it is never too late to begin; it is just that the older one is, the slower it goes and the more he has to take precautions not to permanently damage himself. You have to find a good coach, trainer, mentor, teacher. You don't have to take up cage fighting, but there are many competitive sports, where the object is to win no matter what. My late father was playing the customary lunchtime pingpong ball at his career aerospace factory one day when an entourage of Moon walkers came through on a tour. My father was picked to engage one of them (almost remember the name) in a quick game. My father whipped the dude; now that Moonwalker told my father that he just hated to lose. You can imagine how much competitive spirit was butting heads in that game. Rules, ethics, character, discipline, experience, will to win ... and more played out in that group that day. Should my Dad have backed down to let the astronaut win? If the guy would have then perceived it, and he would have, then how would he have looked at the company that made a stage of the rocket that took him almost a million miles into space and back? Competitive sports provides social bonding the fiercer the play, as long as part of the play is the rule book ... unless of course the two contestants have attained perfect charity in their lives.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 5:55 PM By Lurker
If they think that religion is the only factor that opposes homosexuality, they are gonna have a rude awaking as soon as they introduce this stuff to junior high students.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 7:23 PM By gravey
"Homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity... it will continue to manifest itself in people, perhaps even your own children." Wow, great argument Tony. So by your logic, all human behavior should be accepted because it has "been around." Chesterton once said tolerance is the virtue of a man without conviction. Yes Tony, your tolerance is noteworthy.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 8:47 PM By MarkF
Tony, I don't know how to be gentle in saying this, but you seem to have swallowed the gay propaganda whole. I lived in this world for thirty years and the reality of what homosexuality is about does not match the illusion that these propagandists portray. Education about homosexuality should include the fact the homosexuals get AIDS at a rate that is fifty times that of other segments of society (CDC study as quoted in the gay Washington Blade), that homosexuality is linked to a huge increase in mental illness, that the behavior is seen as unnatural by all of the great faiths, that it is linked to drug use and alcohol. That is reality. What these homosexual groups are all about is spinning fairy tails. These films won't show you the "open relationships" of gay couples, or ones who "play" together with a third or fourth person, the ones who break up after an average length of four years (Dutch study), the ones who molest the kids (I've talked to many who do this), the ones who cruise in parks, etc. Well actually I'm sure these films DO show these people. The films just don't show you them doing these things or talking in support of them. Homosexuality is a house of mirrors. It's fundamentally deceptive.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 9:02 PM By MarkF
JLS, you said, "Another benefit to learning (sports) young is that bodies heal fast and completely." I never learned that as a kid. My parents quickly labeled me as weak and sensitive, even though looking back on it, I never was. I don't want to get into this here, but there was a sick family dynamic going on that lead to a same-sex attraction in me to develop. But, as Joseph in the book of Genesis found out, God can bring good out of evil. (Genesis 50:20) Anyways, you're so right that part of a healthy, God-centered masculinity should be some sort of athletics and competition. Today I run and hike. I wish I could find some sort of team sports but at age fifty it's a bit tough.
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 10:18 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
One Big thing comes out in all of the homosexual or pro-homsexual activists' comments on this site, and that is that they don't give a darn about what the Magisterium teaches on the subject of the sin of sodomy! Yes there are other forms of sodomy, but homosexuality is certainly the worst of them in our society today.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Friday, September 18, 2009 10:30 PM By Dad
What ever happened to actually teaching academics in public schools? (Irrespective of the religious issues.) Their excuse for failing to teach our students was a lack of time, but apparently they have plenty of time to teach non-academic subjects...as long as they have a liberal bent! When did the liberal educators become the social engineers that were given the role of "moral authority? I thought that it was the parents' responsibility to establish religious and social morals. This is why homeschooling makes more and more sense! Students taking college math quickly learn that their high school curriculum are horribly watered down! Because the teachers think that they are responsible to teach morality and tolerance, they do NOT have the time to teach math and science! As a highly educated engineer, I was disgusted at the extremely weak courses in the private as well as public schools. I finally taught my children my self, and they scored in the 99th percentile in standardized testing because they actually were exposed to REAL academics, NOT a bunch of liberal garbage! HOMESCHOOLING is the ONLY answer for any parent who cares about his/her children, academically, socially, and spiritually!
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Posted Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:50 AM By Alice
Homosexuality is a mental illness, and it used to be seen as that by the psychiatric community until pressure from gays changed that. Those who believe in evolution should be able to see our bodies were not made for that..furthermore its a sin. These sickos are only trying to get at our children, and should NEVER be seen as normal.
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Posted Saturday, September 19, 2009 10:57 AM By Beth
It is a topic that should be introduced only in a critical thinking forum with older High School students....and ALL facts should be presented, including the stats on homosexuality & lifespan, disease, lifestyle (pics from the Folsom Street Fair and gay porn should be introduced here), and testimony by former gay men and women.
However, the negatives and alternative viewpoints will NEVER be presented in a public school forum, so the right to "choose" is a crock.
Also, moving this to the elementary and jr high level is a clear attempt at indoctrination of young and impressionable minds.
It isn't rocket science to enforce plain old fashioned good manners in a school....and no politically biased "anti bullying" curriculum is needed.
Thereby exposing the ultimate goal of these public educators.
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Posted Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:10 AM By Abeca Christian
MarkF I am touched by your genuine care for others, God bless you my friend. I will give him your e-mail, hopefully he will be open to contacting you. About that little boy, thank you so much for also praying for him, because he definitely needs our prayers. Hopefully I may run into him and his parents if I ever pick up my nephew after school one day and see what I can say or do to try to offer my support and help but I do know that he does need our prayers. God bless you Anne T I appreciated your posts too, they are very charitable towards those who struggle with the disorder of homosexuality. The more we dialogue truth about the "gay agenda" the more we will reach others, even if it be one person at a time.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 8:09 AM By Aaron
The level of ignorance expressed on this blog is beyond belief. JLS suggest "enroll your sons in martial arts classes at an early age. . ." It seems JLS confuses male homosexuality with being effeminate. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. When I was in graduate school (Univ. of Denver), a classmate played varsity football for the Univ. of Kansas. He also was a homosexual. My partner of 9 years was on his high school basketball squad. I had boxing lessons from age 9-12. I am not effeminate, nor is my partner. We were all born with physical/emotional attraction to our own gender. God made us that way; we accept it.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 4:07 PM By St. Christopher
Homosexuality is objectively disordered behavior. This is according to our Church, the Church based upon the teaching of the Man who, we are taught, is the Son of God and our Redeemer. Nothing good comes of providing any education on homosexual behavior that migth impart the notion that it is acceptable, in any manner. So much solid information has been provided on the awful impact of a homosexual life style. Of course, this is nothing that one will ever see. Instead, curricula has been tailored to lie to our most innocent, to give them the sense that what is truly immoral can be not only tolerated, but embraced by our society, as a decision that is no more important than picking out a flavor of ice cream. "Aaron's" statement may seem rational to him, but it does serve a meaningful lesson. Homosexuals insist that all, starting at the earliest age, see them as being of no risk to society, when the opposite is so clearly true. Polticians, including many of our craven bishops, are afraid of stepping up and advising homosexuals that society is within its rights to limit certain benefits to those whose life styles serve to harm the greater good. Several voices expressed in this blog thoughts and beliefs that can do nothing but harm children. To say that teaching relativism about homosexual relations can have no adverse affects is to say that education has no power and that morality has no virtue. Silly and dangerour principles.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 5:47 PM By MarkF
Aaron, how can I be ignorant of a life style that have spent more time in than you have? You say, "God made us that way..." Prove it. Tell me how I can go to a nursery and point to the gay newborns. I really want to hear how to do this. For the folks at home, there are two things to have in mind. One, the so-called proof of homosexual that they were born this way rests on the memory of always having an attraction to the same sex, memories that go back to the age of four or five. This is not the same as "born that way." It points to the origins of homosexuality coming in early childhood, as I've been saying. Also this "born gay" is a political idea, not a scientific one. Also, what will you say when someone comes along and says that they were born to have a sexual relationship with their brother or sister? Or their daughter? What standard is left after the gay agenda has demolished all standards? And no, I have not forgot the lie that you keep perpetrating that the only reason that you have to live in Spain is because of the law here. The fact is that you homosexual partner refuses to move here and could get a work permit to move here any time if he so wanted. Once you've been caught in one ongoing lie, it's impossible to believe anything else you say.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:07 PM By Mark from PA
JLS, as someone who has never had a desire to "beat the stuffing" out of anyone and who has actually never been in a physical fight, I take issue with some of what you say. I was a shy, gentle kid and I think this was good. It was my personality. I had a peaceful nature. I didn't like team sports and I was not competitive. But I didn't hate gym class either, I just had fun and the other kids didn't bother me, they just accepted me for who I was. I don't care for martial arts or boxing or stuff like that. I just don't like violence. What is wrong with that?
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:09 PM By Anne T.
Tony, my mention of "tolerance" in my public highschool in the 50's does not mean that I think or that homosexual acts are right. No they are not. Biologically homosexual acts are both unhealthy, dangerous and a misuse of a bodily function. Certain body parts of a man and certain body parts of a woman are meant to fit together and produce children, and there is no "getting around that". Any other use, other than for affection between a man and wife, was and is a deviation, such as sodomy, or a misuse of a function of the body, and the Good Lord did not create homosexuality any more than he created the inclination to steal, lie, cheat, dishonor our parents, fornitcate, commit adultery, defame our neighbor or injure someone else. There, also, is a limit to tolerance of such things. Once a person comes out and says homosexual acts are all right, I am obligated by conscience to say that they are not and why--disease, injury to body parts from misuse and a danger to society. Here is an except from the Pontifical Council for the Family from a booklet by the Pauline Press called Family, Marriage and "De Facto" Unions, starting on page 24: Equality before the law must respect the principle of justice which means treating equals equally, and what is different differently: i.e., to give each one his due in justice. This principle of justice would be violated if de facto unions were given a juridical treatment similar or equivalent to the family based on marriage. If the family based on marriage and de facto unions are neither similar or equivalent in their duties, functions and services in society, they they cannot be similar or equivalent in thier juridical status. The pretext used for exerting pressure to recognize de facto unions (i.e., their "non-discrimination") IMPLIES A DISCRIMINATION AGAINST THE FAMILY BASED ON MARRIAGE because it would be considered on a level similar to any other form of cohabitation, regardless of (to be continued in next post).
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:16 PM By Mark from PA
"Pics from the Folsom Street Festival and gay porn should be introduced here." Are you kidding, Beth? Showing any porn to high school kids is illegal and criminal. Kids should not be shown gay porn anymore than they should be shown straight porn. "No politically correct anti-bullying curriculum is needed." Perhaps if your child was being bullied you wouldn't say that. Several weeks ago a man spoke at one of our local schools about bullying. His 13 year old son killed himself because bullies made his life a living hell. No child deserves to be bullied.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:22 PM By JLS
Alice, there is no such thing as evolution, except as an idea.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:24 PM By Anne T.
(Continued) of whether there is a commitment to reciprocal fidelity and the begetting and upbringing of children or not. The orientation of some political communitites today of discriminating against marriage by attributing an institutional status to de facto unions that is similar, or even equivalent to marriage and the family, is a serious sign of the contemporary breakdown in the social moral conscience, of "weak thought" with regard to the common good, when it is not a real and proper ideological imposition exerted by influential pressure groups." The section goes on to say: "Marriage and the family are of public interest; they are the fundament nucleus of society and the State and should be recognized and protected as such. Two or more persons may decide to live together, with or without a sexual dimension, but this cohabitation is not for that reason of public interest. The public authorities cannot get involved in this private choice. De facto unions are the result of private behavior and should remain on the private level. Their public recognition or equivalency to marriage, and the resulting elevation of a private interest to a public interest, damages the family based on marriage." Thoughout this whole booklet, the meaning of the word "marriage" is the marriage of one man and one woman.
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Posted Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:30 PM By JLS
Aaron, for a college educated man, you certainly failed to learn the use of language. Nowhere did I say that martial arts training would eliminate homosexuality. You're simply doing another boast of the pride of homsexuality. Your claim that you were born with homosexuality is no more honest than saying that some people are born bank robbers ... who why should such people be restricted from robbing banks? What's the difference, Aaron? Now as for ignorance, you fail after all these blogs to have checked into the various philosophies that bear on the topic of destiny, fatalism, and Catholicism. You project the belief that man is born a certain way and that no change can occur. Bet you voted for Obama because he wants to change things: And you cannot even see your confusion. Jesus is about change, and Obama is about fatalism. Obama is lying when he says he's going to change the world; no, Obama and all socialists want to maintain the pagan and/or demonic aspect of humanity ... this is not change, Aaron; the only change comes through Jesus Christ which is from death to life. Obama cannot do this, nor can homosexuality, nor can flawed belief systems such as fatalism.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 12:59 AM By Tony
To JLS: I do agree that the word of God has been around since the beginning of time, but the interpretation of that word follows a continuum of history: Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Bahai. On the other hand, ancient history is full of references to homosexuality (Alexander, Hadrian....the Romans has an all-gay legion), as well as attempts to suppress it. I continue to believe that homosexuality has been around longer than Christianity, and I do not find it an "ignorant" statement to make. And, no, that does not mean that the Church has to tolerate it. I do not advocate anything for the Church. However, I do believe that our country should maintain a separation of Church and State, and I do believe that the religious views of some Americans, in and of themselves, should not dictate what is taught in our public schools (in a democracy we do go a long way to tolerate what we don't always agree with). I am married into a family of fairly devout Catholics, and a few born-again Christians. And, yes, some members of that family have come out as gay. It is very interesting to see how this family continues to love and respect and thrive despite obvious challenges of reconciling faith and loyalty to each other in a way my family never could. And, yes, the gays in that family do NOT have AIDS, and are in long-term relationships (one of them is raising children) and are NOT on drugs, nor are they suicidal or deranged. And, I have to admit that it has not been easy for everyone. However, if you consider homosexuality a sin, a deranged lifestyle, a prime source of mental illness, pedophilia, drug use, etc....so be it. But allow yourselves to consider whether you are looking at the full picture, and whether your own communities are free of sin. And, allow yourselves to prepare for the day when someone that you love will, haltingly, nervously, yet resolutely, come to you and say that it is about time to have a long talk........
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 5:43 AM By Gene
It is frightening to watch our world 'circling the drain' and an ever increasing pace down the eddy of oblivion.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 6:39 AM By Peter
You people worry about nothing.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 10:54 AM By Aaron
TONY: Well said. MARK F. Yes, Tomas could have stayed in the US on a work visa; they last up to 5 years. If you are laid off/quit during the 5 years, you must go find a new company to sponsor you or leave the country. In addition, foreigners with work visas are paid less than US citizens doing the same work, because it is expensive (~$10-15,000 annual legal fees) for employers to hire foreigners. Further, if you work 5 years, you must then go back to your home country for one full year before coming back to the US. With all these restrictions, it was better for Tomas to work in Spain; in less than 3 years he has reached the top 1% of technical excellence & is a software architect. It was easier for me to retire in Spain than for him to face restrictions/pay penalty of US work visa. Because gay marriage is legal in Catholic Spain, it was not a problem for me to get a permanent residence card (unlike the USA where gays are specifically prohibited from sponsoring their foreign partners)
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 11:19 AM By Aaron
ANNE: You state the obvious. It is necessary for man/ woman to engage intercourse so babies will be created and mankind will continue; it is best if they are born into a traditional family with a mother and a father (though 60+% of black babies born in the USA in 2007 did not have a father). I do NOT know even ONE PERSON (homosexual or heterosexual) that would disagree with you. JLS: once again you become personally insulting/abusive/non Christian with your comments. I stand by my earlier post. Your equating same gender attraction with deciding to rob banks is reminiscent of National Socialist Germany decades ago.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 11:31 AM By MarkF
Tony, I hear what you're saying about theology and human relationships in the family are two different things. And you're right, your family has dealt with the homosexuality of some its members well. This is where the rubber meets the road. If people can't show acceptance at home, then there's no use to being a Christian. But doesn't their behavior say something about the Church? Doesn't it show that Christians are not as bad as portrayed in the media? You say that these folks are fine, upstanding people. OK, I hear that. What I'm saying is that my experience is that most people with SSA are fine people...except in their sexual and personal lives. I've been saying this for a year but perhaps your story will help me clarify this. The face that people in the gay life portray to others is most often very different from what really goes on. I am saying that you are not able to look at the full picture because it is hidden from you. Human history the world over tells us to be very wary of homosexuality. Our revealed word of God reinforces this. This is still a very dangerous behavior. It is not a mere religious belief that says that the rate of AIDS in homosexuals is fifty times the rate of the general population. That's the CDC that says that. The same is true for the drug use and mental health problems. Look, a family welcomes the members who are alcoholic but wants them to get over it. You see their homosexuality from the outside. I've seen it all from the inside, and continue to do so. The reality is very different from the illusion.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 11:50 AM By Laurie
Parents it is time to take back your power or your children will be sacrificial lambs to the altar of moral corruption. You have the power, take it back or reap the consequences.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 1:00 PM By Ski Ven
LOL! Mark from PA has some serious competition.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 1:41 PM By Tony
Tony - Your reasoning is very sound. It would do well for some of the other posters to this site to take your words at face value. (Many are fearful of reality for some reason.)Others, like Mark F, feel an extended stint in a sub-sub-cultural quagmire makes a person an authority on a culture at large. Celebrate that he has found a way out of HIS personal hell; but understand that his comments are nothing more than a reflection of his limited exposure.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 1:58 PM By Aaron
MarkF: a thoughtful response to Tony. Even though you have lived the so called "gay lifestyle," I know you would be incredibly surprised the enormous number of gay couples who live quiet, Christian lives - far different than the sensationalism of gay pride parades, gay bars, indiscriminate sex. I will not deny the frequency of AIDS in the gay community, but clearly this does not portray everyone. Tomas and I live quiet lives almost exactly the same as my two happily married heterosexual brothers both of whom openly accept us: one of my brothers is an Evangelical Christian (went to Bible College); the other brother is Catholic.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 2:54 PM By MarkF
Aaron, while I appreciate all that you said, I think you're still playing up your martyrdom. You partner can apply for citizenship in the US, and all sorts of other ways to get around the restrictions. The unemployed foreigners are not automatically kicked out of the US as you imply. The real fact is that your partner does not want to live in the US. How do I know? Because if he wanted to, he could have moved here. As you said, money is the deciding issue, yet you want to play up the whiny, homosexual martyrdom complex. It is not Catholic Spain that made up the anti-family, pro-homosexual laws. It is the atheistic, socialist government that made these laws over the protest of the Church. And what's more, you know that. And don't give us this line that no homosexual thinks that a child is not best with a family of a mother and a father. The whole gay agenda is based on thinking not just that a homosexual couple is the equal of a natural family, but that it is superior to the natural family. On a public forum such as this, homosexuals are all cuddly and light. On their own websites and one-on-one to me personally, what I hear is how the family is a horrible, patriarchal, abusive, repressive, outmoded institution filled with violence and hypocrisy. What I hear and see with my own eyes is that homosexuals are NOT monogamous, but act like sixteen-year-old boys their whole life. If homosexuals are so monogamous, then why does the CDC say that the rate of AIDS is fifty times higher there? Or can you tell me the name of the country, state or city even where AIDS is not a problem in the homosexual community?
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 3:46 PM By JLS
Aaron, sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as a gay Christian lifestyle. If you are not with Christ in the way you live, then you oppose Him.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 3:49 PM By JLS
Aaron, your accusation that I'm personally insulting pales in the face of your opposition to God. You are in charge of the way you feel, not I. If you don't like how you feel, then repent and follow Jesus Christ. You'll feel better if you do. The perverse lifestyle you claim fits in with the run up to the time of the Antichrist ... it is an abomination in the face of God.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 3:50 PM By JLS
Aaron, you accusation that Christianity is like Nazi-ism is one more bit of evidence that you are enmeshed in far more than the homosexual lifestyle ... you advocate socialism which is the political/religious movement against God.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 4:06 PM By Sana
As a straight female with several gay pals I find some of what I have just read here absolutely bigoted and disgusting.
FYI, Christ said absolutely nothing against gays. Paul did and so do several people writing in the NT but Jesus himself, not one word.
Gayness is inherent. There animals throughout nature that are gay, and bi as well as straight.
Oops, guess "God" didn't get that bit about gayness being perverted when he made gay Penguins did he?
Think I am making it up?
Go ask a zoologist.
Being gay, being bi, they're just variants on the scale of sexuality, period. It's a roll of the dice genetically speaking, like being left handed or having two different colored eyes.
Nuff said.
Nuff said.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 4:29 PM By The Truth Hurts
Aaron, It is a very hopeful sign that your conscience is not at complete peace while you live in mortal sin. You write that you and your friend Tomas are so very happy. If you were that happy you wouldn't have the slightest desire to see what faithful Catholics believe. I believe that the reason you visit this site is to see if others are also rationalizing mortal sin. You are rightfully torn. You are still searching for that one moment of grace that will open your eyes to the truth. I hope that you find that moment of grace like Mark F. did and share Christ's truth with everyone. Please keep visiting the site Aaron.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 5:56 PM By MarkF
Hmmmm... Tony said about me, "Celebrate that he has found a way out of HIS personal hell; but understand that his comments are nothing more than a reflection of his limited exposure." So my thirty years of experience is "limited" but yours is not? Then aren't all people's experiences equally as limited? If what you're saying is true, then no one, not you, not me, not anyone, can have an opinion on anything. Nice try, but that bird don't fly. If what I'm saying is true then why is the AIDS rate so high in all homosexual populations? (gay Washington Blade) Why are we now finding out that AIDS is Africa is much more linked to homosexual behavior then was previously thought? (NY Times). And I have to say this at this point, but I don't like talking about my life...what I write about on here is not what I did...I am telling you about people I knew, people I ran into, people I talked to, friends of my ex-lover, people I still know well, others who I only knew slightly...I did not live that sort of life. I lived with a guy for thirteen years and then was single for about ten years. I was an average homosexual, which was bad enough. The life is godless. JLS is a bit blunt but he's right, you cannot be a gay Christian. At first I wondered about people who claim to be good gay Christians. Now, after talking deeply with several, I've found that their real god is homosexuality, not Christ. I'll give that great quote one more time, which referred originally to Most Holy Redeemer, "Most Holy Redeemer is not a Catholic church with gay members. It is a gay spiritual institution that is willing to use Catholicism, including the sacraments, just as far as they can be made "inclusive" of the formative experience of the parish, which is homosexuality, and no farther."
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 6:03 PM By Mark from PA
The Truth Hurts, you don't know Aaron personally so you don't know if he is committing mortal sins. He said that he lives a quiet life. None of us is perfect but we trust in God's mercy.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 6:04 PM By MarkF
Sana, are people defined by their behavior? Are people so fated to behave in a certain way that there is no moral standard? Psychologists will tell you that there are certain people who have no conscience. They are called sociopaths. In your reasoning, given that they are a sociopath, is everything they do fine then? Christ said that marriage was between a man and woman, not two men and not two women. He talked a lot about the marriage between Christ and his Church, in terms of bride and groom, not two brides, not two grooms. Can you show me any place in the Christian tradition where homosexuality is not condemned? Can you cite any Church father, council, saint, doctor of the Church? Can you show any current Christian group that accepts homosexual behavior where that group is growing?
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 6:29 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
"He who is not with me, is against me", and "He who hears you hears me". I do believe that is was Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Who said that. He said it to his Apostles, and later on St. Paul was included in that Blessed association, so Sana you have convicted yourself and all others who try to spread the lie that Jesus did not condemn homosexuality. He did so through his appointed Apostles.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 8:56 PM By JLS
Sana, your claim that Christ said nothing about homosexuals is false. It is a tired and worn out claim put forth by the militant homosexual community in their restless war against God. If you stick with this thread long enough, you will find all sorts of Jesus teaching on the very point you deny.
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 9:39 PM By JLS
Sana, rereading your post, I can see that you've never actually researched any of your claims. Have you ever seen gay penguins? No? But you're claiming there are such things ... where, Sana, is your credibility?
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Posted Monday, September 21, 2009 11:05 PM By JLS
Aaron, the following quote is from Archbishop Raymond Burke, a Vatican official: "neither Holy Communion nor funeral rites should be administered to" politicians who support abortion or same-sex "marriage." Abp Burke also said referring to abortion homosexual institutionalism, ""It is not possible to be a practicing Catholic and to conduct oneself in this manner". So, you see, Aaron, I'm not making up this stuff; Abp Burke also said that informing people about this is an act of truth in charity. What offends you, Aaron, is your hatred of God, which also offends God. You have these feelings, Aaron, because of your human nature, which is basically good. It is good enough for you to humble yourself before God and seek His mercy and pardon for your offenses against both God and man. He will provide you with more than you can imagine, Aaron, if you act according to His will. God's grace will empower you to live in His fellowship ... you have to make the move, Aaron. God is open to you, but you have to make the move.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:55 AM By Aaron
TO-TTH. To the contrary. Every day of my life from age 20 to age 60, I prayed on my knees for God to take away my inborn same gender attraction; HE chose not! I finally accepted myself for what HE made me. No matter how it might offend you, Tomas and I are at peace! We live very normal, moral, Christian lives. We have been together for 9 years; we are 100% monogamous; We do our best to encourage others to do the same, despite the occasional outburst from people like JLS who believe we are far worse than bank robbers/drug dealers. We contribute to society, urge governments to adopt non-discriminatory laws, urge heterosexuals to maintain strong family values. We hope that our example as a strong family unit will encourage parents to be very careful and loving with their children. If you have a gay son or daughter, be careful: the suicide rate among gay kids is about 7X that of hetero kids. Special thanks to people like SANA who believe, as we do, in the example set by Jesus
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:48 AM By Captain H.
@Sana: God did not make gay penguins. Penguins, as we all know, are simply animals that act on animalistic instinct. If an animal gets horny, it's gonna go for the first thing it sees, regardless of gender. Animals lack the thought process necessary to call themselves gay. People who act on gay or bi impulses are simply ignoring the logical order of how life is supposed to flow and acting like animals instead of the people they were created to be.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:18 AM By MarkF
Aaron, I'm sorry that you went through so much self hatred for your homosexuality. I see this all the time in men with SSA attraction. I came out when I was sixteen and never got into this ritualized masochism. But, the cost of that was living a homosexual lifestyle. You're still new to going down this road so I really can't blame you. I do sometimes wonder if the only way out of homosexuality is to first embrace it. I don't know. The self-hatred that you talk about is not coming from society. It came from within and it's still there. Now though, that self-hatred is directed outward to change the Church, to change what is healthy and normal and to change the family. You are still lost Aaron. I'm a lot further down the road you're on than you are. I can only hope that you trust what the Church has said about homosexuality since the time of Christ and trust in what you cannot believe. Maybe you're so caught up in all this that you are not culpable, but as the catechism says, homosexual behavior can never be approved of, even if the person is not personally culpable.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:24 AM By JLS
Animals also hump others for reasons that do not have to do with sex. They do this to declare dominance. My female dog will sometimes hump my male dog, eg. Cows (which are female) will hump cows which have just become pregnant ... this is often the way farmers can tell if their cow has become impregnated.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:32 AM By JLS
I do not believe the Aristotelian definition that only man is rational and that animals are not. I have seen animals displaying rational behavior. What the undisputed difference is between us and animals is the soul, which animals do not share ... although "soul" here has to be defined in a certain exclusive manner. I have seen animals pull off complex jokes, and I've seen them construct complex ways of persuassion ... these complex mental activities are what I'm referring to as rational. Maybe St Thomas defines it differently, however. Animals can think and reason, although not to the same extent as humans ... however, the question comes up as to whether animals have an immaterial mind. No, how could they? But there are naturalists who claim a kind of cosmic mind which animals take part in. In other words there is something to be dealt with perhaps other than mere fantasy. Sana, the bottom line is that man is created for God and animals are created for man. Animals have no capacity to sin, whereas man does. Some men have become so depraved that they no longer enjoy their intended nature, and then resort to the nature of animals ... witness pagan religions which "animate" themselves with animal idols and practices.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:39 AM By JLS
Aaron, you prayed but did not believe that God came to your aid. Haven't you ever heard the joke of the man who fell off a cliff and grabbed a small bush which he was hanging onto? He prayed for God to save him. A series of events happened immediately after each of his prayers, but he did not take any action. At the Judgment he asked God why He did not save him; God answered, that indeed upon each prayer He sent the means of salvation, but that the man failed to act on them. Aaron, God has told you not to sin, and yet you keep at it: Are you claiming that God is tricking you? What exactly are you claiming about God, that He is not faithful in His promise to respond to our faith? In my own little battles to resist temptation, it recently occured to me in one "arena" that I have failed to simply say no. Try it. You know, the hardest thing there is to do is to tell the absolute truth in word and deed, and the second is to say no. Try both, Aaron. But try the second first and the first second, because the "last shall be first, and the first shall be last".
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:44 AM By JLS
Aaron, it feels good when you tell me that I'm God, but the real source of what I've been saying is not me but the actual God. So I reject your subtle flattery, and refer you to buku verses in Scripture where God's major prophets time and time again point out to all that the worst sins are those of idolatry and adultry ... and that homosexuality results from emersion in these things.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:49 AM By JLS
Many there have been and are who construct a "Jesus" who is merely a manmade contrivance. Perhaps one of the more recent errors in this regard was the effort begun by Protestants and then taken up by liberal Catholics called the "historical Jesus". In order to fit Scripture and other Magisterial references into their construct, they had to excise, delete and alter Scripture to accomplish their vain efforts. Aaron, you can claim all sorts of righteousness in your attempt to bargain your way into Heaven; your problem will be in recognizing whom you are facing, whether it is the real Jesus or the one you made up to suit your whims.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 10:49 AM By Mark from PA
Aaron, I feel bad that you spent all that time praying to be changed. I have to tell you that I have never prayed for that, even once. I have more important things to pray about. Until the past few years I never really thought about it a lot, it was part of who I was but I didn't really understand. But I am who I am and God won't change this.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:17 PM By Abeca Christian
Sana your post is filled with ignorance and foolishness, I see a waste of words and am disgusted. I too have friends who are what you call homosexuals but one thing for sure, they know of my true desire and love for them to reach salvation and that is by my patience,prayers, actions and true charity. I do not condone their lifestyle choices, that's how they know that I truly care for their salvtion and I wish for them to be saved and healed by the hand of God not by the imperfections of man nor by your own wasted words, which only leads to utter destruction to all human dignity. I pray for your repentance and conversion. God's will be done!
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 12:55 PM By Peter
MarkF - The "Tony" post was mine, not his. I accidentally posted under his MO. And you know exactly what I am talking about when I refer to your experience as "limited". You chose to remain for 30 years part of a homosexual sub-sub-culture that you could have easily left sooner. I've seen the same things you have, but guess what, I had the personal fortitude to disassociate myself with those people and sought out others who were not leading a destructive lifestyle. As a result I found supportive, well adjusted, healthy, unabusive, homosexual role models (yes, they do exist!), and made a variety of homo and heterosexual friends who accept me for who I am. You, on the other hand, categorically portray your experience as a result of the homosexual culture at large; you see other homosexuals as helpless individuals locked in an unforgiving evil sub-culture. Who would subject themselves to that for thiry years? I mean come on already That's what I mean my limited experience. Like the same sub-culture doesn't exist for heterosexuals, but you're so hell bent on demonizing homosexuals you rerely, if ever, acknowledge that fact. You are either incredibly naive or completely disingenious. The homosexual culture is not "godless", you were godless and you associated with were godless. Glad you finally came to your senses and found salvation, hero, but quit the generalizations.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:01 PM By Peter
Abeca Christian - Get off your self-righteous high-horse. Have you ever asked your so called homosexual "friends" what they really think about your patience, prayers, actions, and "true" charity? I guarantee you'd suddenly find yourself the foolish, ignorant one.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 1:57 PM By JLS
Peter, what you experience mongers cannot see, for lack of faith, is that your maximum experience in sin has no comparison to even the minimal experience in faith in Jesus Christ. The devil is no match for faith, no matter how nascent that faith is, as long as it is well rooted and nurished faith ... which is what the Church does, ie provide, plant and nurish faith in souls.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:02 PM By Mark from PA
JLS, you refer to abortion homosexual institutionalism. Abortion has nothing to do with being homosexual. You speak of abortion and same sex marriage but I doubt that many people in same sex marriages have abortions. As someone who is pro-life I think you are offending pro-life gay people by linking the two issues. I wouldn't worry about Archbishop Burke doing any funeral rites for me. I am Polish and wouldn't be good enough for him. He should talk about charity the way he treated some of the people in St Louis.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 3:35 PM By The Truth Hurts
Peter, Why are you so angry and mean to Mark F? Mark F has never referred to himself as a hero. The fact that you even sarcastically used the word hero suggests that you are bothered by the peace and the truthful responses that Mark F is trying to help others with. Can't you see that it would be easier for Mark F to just be quiet and be glad that he has opened his eyes to benefit only himself? He is trying to help others. Someone along the way helped Mark F. and at one time it was probably just as painful for him to listen as it is for you and others who struggle with SAS. I do have compassion when I read about Aaron's painful struggle. Peter, there is no one who escapes struggle on this earth. Struggling, as painful as it is, does not give someone such as Aaron or anyone a license or excuse to offend God. Compassion should not blind us when we see our brothers and sisters in Christ living lives that are offensive to God The same thing applies to each and every one of us. I recently read that there are people who are specifically assigned to appear passive and relentlessly drive the homosexual agenda to the forefront of just being accepted as another lifestyle. Mark from PA fits this description and he shows no compassion for Aaron's soul or anyone else who he encourages to commit mortal sin. Stop and think about your entire eternity. Would you rather spend an eternity with God because you valiantly carried your specific cross? Remember each one of us carries a specific cross or a number of crosses. Would you rather spend an eternity not seeing God because you let others like Mark from PA encourage living in mortal sin by commiting homosexual acts? It takes greater love, time and effort to challenge someone to hear the truth than to pat someone's back with sugar coated praises into hell. Heaven and hell are not generalizations. They are specific goals. No one forces anyone either way. They choose one or the other. Which one do you want Peter?
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:02 PM By Mark from PA
The Truth Hurts, who are you to tell me that I show no compassion for Aaron's soul? I am not encouraging anyone to commit mortal sin. Some of you are just not listening to Aaron. I can tell by reading what Aaron says what a good, Christian person he is. From what he has said he lives a life of Christian goodness. He is a better Christian than others who sit in judgement on him and condemn him for being who he is. If only some could just open their eyes and ears and truly listen to what he has said here. And I will tell you the truth, The Truth Hurts, no one in my whole entire life has ever told me that I was living a life that was offensive to God. But sadly to some of you I am probably one of the disordered and inferior.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 5:19 PM By gravey
Sorry Mark from PA, wrong again (so what else is new?). Abortion and same-sex marriage are linked as they are both condemned by the Church. In no way will the Catholic Church accept abortion as a "right" of a woman, or that so-called same-sex "marriage" is "discrimination" against homosexuals. Opposition to abortion and same-sex marriage is a moral imperitive for Catholics and the Church's opposition to them is fundamental and unchangeable.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:17 PM By JLS
PA, my wording failed. Read the quote from Abp Burke, in which he puts abortion and "gay marriage" together as two positions either of which disenfranchise from Catholicism. Burke tells us flat out that if you believe in either abortion or "gay marriage" then you are not Catholic.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 6:19 PM By JLS
PA, if homosexualist activists are offended by having the conflict of their life style contrasted to Catholicism, then they ought to give up the sin and do their penance with joy.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 7:53 PM By MarkF
Peter, I'm sorry but you just lost all credibility when you post under two different names. I now strongly suspect that all of the posts under the name of Tony were you all along. I really don't think you're a bad person, but you're defending some that is evil, and yes, is satanic and that has lead you to this point. I can't take your other comments about how many normal acting homosexuals you know seriously because of the phony names you seem to be using on here.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 9:47 PM By Woody Guidry
Abeca Christian-Mark F sent you his email address,and I would like to know how he was able to get past the "security" requirements of California Cath Daily comments section? I tried to include in my comments the only Vatican approved programs for SSA people and even the name of the orgainization was deleted and my comment deleted. Since I have Mark's email from the comments published, I will send the same message to that address. Since I don't see any complaints published here about Calcath, there is either 100 percent reader satisfaction or 0 percent tolerance by the publisher.
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Posted Tuesday, September 22, 2009 11:43 PM By Aaron
Peter: Thank you for your insightful comments. I have never been in the "gay subculture." I often have no idea what MarkF is talking about. My experience with Tomas is very similar to my life when I was married for 32 years. (Through prayer for deliverance from SSA, I was able to maintain my sanity during marriage; we raised two wonderful kids; nobody knew of my internal struggles; my wife died of breast cancer in 1999; I told my incredibly shocked kids I am gay in 2000; met Tomas in 2001, and we have been together ever since).
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:31 AM By Mark from PA
Please read again what Aaron said 9/22 at 1:55 AM. He said that he is at peace. So he no longer has any self-hatred. He finally accepted himself for what God made him. He lives a moral Christian life.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:37 AM By RR
Woody Guidry: I can assure you that the editor is NOT 0 percent intolerant. I can't tell you how many times I and others have had our comments against homosexuality and other topics, deleted. Sometimes I scratch my head and think to myself, what did I say that was so wrong? Then, I just think for some reason unknown to me (probably a good one) it was deleted. Whatever?
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 6:41 AM By Peter
MarkF - So you are disingenuous. Thanks for clearing that up with your cop-out post. Note that I admit to "accidentally" posting under Tony's MO. It would serve no purpose to mis-represent myself. You can't take my other comments seriously because it would make you truly have to face why you were stupid for 30 years.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:14 AM By Ski Ven
MarkF, I suspect that Peter is not the only one that is doing that. If you dig in the archives you'll find some telling signs in some of the more intellectual posts. They think us regular folks are too stupid to notice.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:15 AM By JLS
Woody, sometimes the staff gets overloaded with submissions. Easy way to trade emails is have the staff make the requests for you; that way, it the info is not publicized. On your specific issue, that info has been published from time to time. You might also want to have it posted in the classifieds or announcements sections.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:22 AM By JLS
PA, you have never directly responded to the many challenges to your elusive position on the topic of what level of homosexualness bars one from being a Catholic: As Archbishop Burke points out clearly, if you believe in gay marriage then you are not Catholic. Thus, Aaron is not Catholic no matter how much he claims otherwise.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:07 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, Archbishop Burke is not God. It is your opinion that Aaron is not a Catholic but you were not there for his baptism and you don't really know how he practices his faith. In regard to gay marriage it is not something that one needs to "believe in." For example, does one believe that gay marriage is legal in Massachusetts? The same sex couples that are married in Massachusetts are married in a legal sense but since the Catholic Church does not perform same sex marriages, they are not married in a Sacramental sense. Do you understand the difference here?
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:07 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, Archbishop Burke is not God. It is your opinion that Aaron is not a Catholic but you were not there for his baptism and you don't really know how he practices his faith. In regard to gay marriage it is not something that one needs to "believe in." For example, does one believe that gay marriage is legal in Massachusetts? The same sex couples that are married in Massachusetts are married in a legal sense but since the Catholic Church does not perform same sex marriages, they are not married in a Sacramental sense. Do you understand the difference here?
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 10:23 AM By Abeca Christian
Peter to answer your question, the men whom people label as "homosexuals" that are my friends, in which I was referring to, they are struggling and are truly seeking to leave that lifestyle. They read my comments here and yours, they laughed at your comment because you told me to get off my high horse and to stop being self righteous, they laughed because they know that I am not self righteous nor am I on a high horse, good fellow. Simply speaking God's truths, aren't self righteous, you are confused on what is truly self righteous and you confuse true charity with ill resentments because you are walking on the wrong path. Not poking fun at your comment but because I don't take ill of any comments here. I agree to disagree with you dear chap! On the other hand, you disagree with not only me but also the teachings of the church and holy scripture.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 11:40 AM By The Truth Hurts
Peter, What a wonderful compliment to use the past tense words *were stupid* to Mark F. in your Sept. 23rd post. Would it be fair then to admit that this is a hopeful sign of recognition and admittance of the fact that you, Aaron and Mark from PA are *still lost* in the present tense? Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now I am found. Was blind but now I see.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:22 PM By Mark from PA
Mark F, you say "I do sometimes wonder if the only way out of homosexuality is to first embrace it." What do you mean by this? Do you truly believe that a person's sexual oriention is something that one can turn on and off like a light bulb? A person has to accept who they are and then deny it? I don't really discuss this with people but it doesn't change who I am inside. Don't ask, don't tell.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 2:52 PM By MarkF
JLS, you said, "PA, you have never directly responded to the many challenges to your elusive position..." And he never will. What you still aren't seeing is that you are not dealing in a debate, but an exercise in psychology. No matter how many times you hold up a color wheel to someone who has a physical problem of being colorblind, they will still not see in color. But the problem here is not physical, it is psychological, and the problem runs very deeply. Please, just move on and don't respond to what ever he says. It's not doing anyone any good.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:23 PM By JLS
PA, I will butt out of the homosexual aspects of our conversation. When you claim that baptism makes one a Catholic, you should also know that Catholics can cease to be, due to their words or actions. Abp Burke is teaching us Magisterial doctrine here; if he is wrong, then he will be corrected by the Pope. Don't hold your breath.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 7:52 PM By Mark from PA
Hey Mark F, we are not Amish here. We don't shun people. I know that you look down on me as an inferior but not everyone here does.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:00 PM By Mark from PA
Mark F, you gave me your e-mail and asked me to talk to you. I told you things that I don't really discuss with others. I don't discuss certain things with others and since I basically lead a chaste life I don't really see a lot of reason to. One of the reasons I don't share with other people is because I don't feel like being judged and stereotyped. I don't care to open myself up to prejudice and hate. So my discussions here have truly been a learning experience for me.
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Posted Wednesday, September 23, 2009 9:07 PM By JLS
Peter, you know nothing about homosexuality because it is the only mode you live in. You have nothing to compare or contrast it to. This is why Jesus is crucial to your life right now ... He is the light that shines into the darkness. Allowing this Light into your life will give you the vision that will change your life forever.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 4:26 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, on another site I read comments from people from St Louis. One man spoke of being in Opus Dei for several years. He was a very conservative Catholic. He left Opus Dei as it was taking too much time from his family. When the abuse stuff came out, he drifted away from the Church, in large part because of the way victims were treated in his Archdiocese. His wife remained faithful to the Church until Archbishop Burke showed up. She was so upset by some of the things that he pulled that she ended up joining the Episcopal Church with her husband. Another poster from St Louis kept going on about how Burke had alientated a lot of people and was due to get kicked upstairs. Shortly after this he was sent to Rome.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:31 AM By Abeca Christian
JLS I genuinely appreciate your post to Peter that you posted on September 23, 2009 9:07 PM By JLS. They are beautiful words to all walking in grave sin. Jesus is the light and Jesus will change our lives forever. He has and continues to, only to those who embrace Him. Mark from PA I feel sorry for you, if only you would stop bashing MarkF and rebuke your distorted assumptions about him, only then would you have made a genuine friend who may lead you to Christ and truths!
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:19 AM By Aaron
JLS: You have won a pyrrhic victory with your comment: "Peter, you know nothing about homosexuality..." when in fact it is YOU who knows nothing of homosexuality. From earlier posts, I know that you understand your dog, but in terms of HUMAN understanding, you know nothing...you are blind, indeed to the needs of others. So in order for you to fully enjoy your pyrrhic victory, I suppose I should just get along to the Anglican church, rather than trying to be a good Catholic; by sharing insights on this blog to give people a chance to understand what life is like for ~3-5% of the people in this world. This blog would be far better if you were not on it; you probably should just go home and throw the ball to your dogs, rather than insulting people and chasing them away from communion with Christ. Some time ago, I offered that it might be interesting to sit in debate with you over coffee; your response was that you are absolutely not interested in ever sitting down with someone who is gay. So be it. Drown in your self righteousness, continue to chase good Christians from the church. Jesus said "Love One Another as I Have Loved You," a command you so conveniently overlook in your smugness, vanity and pride. You are among the worst examples of what a Catholic should be; your mannerisms and temperament are better suited to the Third Reich, rather than California Catholic Daily..
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 2:27 PM By MarkF
JLS, there is any interesting discussion here lurking right below the surface. How are we supposed to know what is an authentic, infallible teaching of the Church? When is something considered to be infallible and when is it just pastoral? Not everything every bishop says, and not even everything the pope says is infallible, so how do we know what is rock solid? In this case in particular, when +Burke says that neither Holy Communion nor funeral rites should be administered to politicians who support abortion or same-sex "marriage", I'd argue that this statement is pastoral but not infallible. But this pastoral statement is backed up by infallible teaching - that communion is reserved for people in a state of grace, that offering material support for abortion is grave matter, etc. Without getting bogged down in this specific example, this is certainly a very misunderstood topic. I think the key phrase is consensus of the faithful. This is why dissenters like the so-called Catholics for Choice play up the dissenting voices so as to claim that there is no consensus on abortion. And Nancy Pelosi, bless her little radical heart, fell right into their trap. Any thoughts on this wider issue of how we can tell what is infallible and what is pastoral? I'm not so interested in arguing about homosexual dissent but in the wider issue here. Thanks.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:04 PM By MarkF
Aaron, I have a hard time understanding how you can say that you are trying to be a good Catholic when you are deliberately and continuously breaking one of the commandments, "Thou shall not commit adultery." You know what the Church teaches. And yet you reject it. You put your will over what God wants for us. I'm sure that you don't see this, but your position inevitably leads to hypocrisy. You know that you're in violation of the commandments. Yet you justify this by saying that you get the big picture and that the little details don't matter so much. But you miss the first commandment, and you omitted it here. The most important commandment is NOT to love one another. It is to love God above all else. From THAT comes surrender, which means to surrender your will to his. From THAT comes truth, like the truth that it is not a loving act to shove your penis into the anus of another man, even if he wants it. But no, you chose your way, and then hypocritically attack someone else for his faults. It must be so nice to be so superior that you can snicker at others while you knowingly chose to defy the commandments. Along with snickering at JLS, you snicker at St. Paul, Augustine, Aquinas, all the popes, all the saints, the whole Hebrew tradition. And how the heck do you go to confession? Do you lie to your priest? Or do you hunt out a radical priest who will absolve you? No matter how you slice, you're living a life of continuous hypocrisy...feeling oh so superior and oh so condescending to others who struggle with being faithful. Yeah, that's it. Take the easy way out and besmirch those who haven't.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:09 PM By Mark from PA
Abeca Christian, I don't have distorted assumptions about Mark F. He has shared his story here and I have read what he has written and respect him. I don't need to make assumptions because he has told us. I don't need him to lead me to Christ because I have never left Christ or the Church since my first Holy Communion over 40 years ago. I don't think telling someone to leave the Church (as I was told) and to pretty much tell a person that he is unwanted and inferior is being all that friendly.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:07 PM By JLS
MarkF, I'm glad you pointed out the snickering of Aaron. What is that all about, anyway? I see now that I have overlooked it.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:15 PM By JLS
Aaron, you nailed it in that I know nothing about homosexuality. But to articulate your hyperbole, I know something about it. It is bad. It goes deeply into psychological realms and spiritual realms which the Church is warned not to delve deeply into (by St John the Evangelist). One of the tricks of perversion is the attempt to draw others into it. We ran into this constantly last year in arguing with transexuals who insisted on delving into various details of their situations. Mabye the method patterning such delving has recently been systematized by the late S. Freud, where one person kicks back and talks about all sorts of stuff, and then they interpret the symbols in a variety of ways, so as to result always in a happy fee payment to the shrink. It's often a mockery of Confession. If you hook up with a solid Catholic professional, who will prep you for confession, then you will find a phenomenal metamorphosis in your life. Heaven waits for us, unlike death which waits for no man.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:26 PM By JLS
MarkF, there are divinely revealed truths. Theology builds on these. These truths are revealed to us by God because humans do not have the capacity to discover them. There is a lot to be said and reflected on regarding the exact way a person agrees with these divinely revealed truths. For example, some people recognized Jesus as a special "who", and later understood His divine nature. Why I do not know. I do not know why I believe and others do not. Abraham, the Patriarch, believed God and his faith was credited to him as righteousness ... even though it is pointed out specifically that he did some less than righteous acts. Why, then, was there such a long gap between anyone who believed God and Abraham? Like a millenia or better!? Why did Abraham (Abram) believe God? I do not know that there is an answer to this question. St Paul tackles it but I'm not aware that he has answered it. Jesus talks about faith, like a mustard seed, and in other contexts: Job tells us "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away; blessed be the Lord". Job demonstrates his faith in God, but cannot explain it to anyone. The ultimate explanation is the Cross, a "sign of contradiction". Gideon bargained with God, asking for a sign to prove the fact, and God gave him a sign. We pray ... multitudes have prayed for millenia ... and God answers our prayers ... ten lepers were healed by Jesus, and only one came back to thank Him. Continued:
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:45 PM By JLS
MarkF, continuing: For those who have ears to hear -- A man was wealthy, his kids were in expensive colleges, his wife was in the jet set, he drove a Ferrari and a huge pleasure boat, and they lived in a mansion with servants. One day disaster hit and his financial world was tumbling ... desparate, he locked himself in the bathroom where he dropped to his knees and prayed to God: "God arrange for me to win the big lotto, and I give much to the poor and love my neighbors ... etc ". God answered him and said "OK, deal". The draw took place but he didn't win. Downcast he went back into the bathroom, locked the door, dropped to the floor and, wailing in grief, asked God why when He agreed to have him win he didn't win. God then answered the man, "You didn't buy a lotto ticket". It is all faith, MarkF, all faith. Without faith, there is nothing that theology can inform anyone of. Jesus told parables because, like God telling Moses to shield his eyes lest he die in God's presence due to the shear purity and power of God, we are not able to withstand the truth. We carry our little Crosses and in doing so we find occasional beams of the light of Christ. Did any of His disciples ever come up with the answer to a parable? Instead what they did was to move their lives in the direction they were led by the Holy Ghost. So, how do we recognize the Holy Ghost? Well, it all goes back to the fact that we cannot see God, yet Jesus says that if we see Him then we see God. Perhaps the reward, ie that which we "see", is in the act, is united with the act of charity or mercy, and is not something separate from it. When we are charitable, we are sacrificial; Perhaps then the pain of surrendering a part of our life keeps us from seeing the life that we give up, because what we give up has not yet occured, does not exist. It is a trade of our vanity for the benefit of someone else, even sometimes our enemy, even sometimes an enemy who is killing us. Believe God.
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Posted Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:57 PM By JLS
PA, I'd go with Abp Burke instead of the couple who left and joined the Episcopal church. Note the key word you use, "join"? One joins churches, but one unites with the Catholic Church. The metropolitan rules the archdiocese ... "rules" it as Christ rules creation. Apparently this couple could not submit themselves to the rule of Christ through Abp Burke. Why do they want to play politics with Christ? Well, we do, but why do some people play by the rules and others not? Did Abp Burke explain the moves he made? What I hear you say is that there was rumor and gossip that tried to block out what the Archbishop actually did and said. Probably why he did it and said it ... the diocese is not the front room of the laity but of Jesus Christ. The laity is the guest, the Bride of the Bridegroom: But in this feminist and effeminized culture of today, many people cannot abide with the way God has created us. You said it was the man who split first, and the faithful woman later: No, she sent him packing and he played the macho guy in doing so, and later when she knew he was gonna stay, then she joined him: she played the feminist leading her husband around by the nose and stood up the Bridegroom.
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Posted Friday, September 25, 2009 5:26 AM By RR
MarkF: If I might continue a bit further with your post @ 7:04 P.M.: About going to and confessing sins; If one leaves out or knowing does not tell of sins of any kind, in this case Aaron's homosexual sex, then the sacrament becomes a sacrilige, is not valid, and he is not forgiven. If he does confess it and has no firm purpose of ammending his life, again the sacrament is void. He knows the Church's position on homosexual sex, so ignorance is no excuse. He continues to defy Christ and His Church and claims to be a good Christian all while condemning anyone who tells him the truth. There will be some here for sure telling me I don't know the state of Aaron's soul, but he has himself told us here on this site that he is an active homosexual. So we do know his soul is in jeopardy and in a state of mortal sin. There has been no repentance of his sins or firm purpose of ammendment; only the flaunting of and promoting of his sin. What's just as bad is Catholics in name only on here supporting and condoning his actions. We all know who these posters are. You active homosexuals and your supporters need to stop bringing scandal to Christ, His Church, His sacraments, and to yourselves.
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Posted Friday, September 25, 2009 12:13 PM By The Truth Hurts
JLS, Aaron's snickering of you is self-protective reaction that comes from a void place that still suffers from a deep seeded rejection of a fatherly figure. Aaron must recognize the strength and conviction of your faith and he wants that validation from a strong male figure. Aaron still hasn't figured out that it is the strength of Christ's truths that he is drawn to dialogue with. Aaron invited you for coffee and you righhtly rejected that invitation. If we are going to completely pretend and play by Aaron's false claims of incredible mortal sin bliss and happiness with Tomas, then what is Aaron doing two timing Tomas and inviting other men for coffeee and conversation over the Internet? How would a wife feel about her husband inviting some woman for coffee over the Internet because she was spiritually appealing to debate. Is Tomas on another computer telling men how happy he is with Aaron but inviting them for coffee and conversation over the Internet? There is more to this story. Right now Aaron's motives cannot be trusted because he is actively engaged in grave sin and he is defending it. This does not mean that Aaron has to forever remain in his prison away from God. Aaron has the God given gift of free will. Aaron is choosing sin. Aaron can have male friendships that are pleasing to God that don't require sin. We know that those who suffer from the very difficult disorder of homosexuality long for validation, love and acceptance of a father's love. Let us all pray for Aaron and other homosexuals who are unable without God's grace to even begin to comprehend how transparently false their claims of happiness are. They are still searching the highways and byways and the Internet for acceptance. God alone, who is the Perfect Father figure can fill that empty void in Aaron and others who still deceive themselves that God has abandoned them. It is Aaron who has abandoned complete trust in God.
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Posted Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:24 PM By Mark from PA
I can't believe it. Drinking coffee with someone and having a conversation with them is not being physically intimate. Two timing? Tomas is Aaron's BEST friend and partner but surely they have other friends. If I went over to RR's house and we had a conversation about our parishes and religious matters, we would surely not be two timing anyone. We are adult Christians here. Aaron, if it is not too frustrating, answer these people.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 4:20 PM By Abeca Christian
The disorder is only eminent when society embraces it. The disorder is apparent when one embraces sin. The disorder becomes more acceptable because it is then desensitized. Heal thy disorder with the word of God, with His word and flesh, heal. Turn away from fornication, lust and all sorts of disordered sexual attraction. For instance even polygamy can be considered a spiritual disordered lifestyle because if one man desires more than one woman for his wives, even when the church has not permitted it, one has to ask themselves "what is it that a man would want more than one wife, why would he consider it. What personal self seeking reasons, they can't be from God but only from his own self gratification" The act of sexual attraction is cheapened when there are multiple partners. One would argue, well in the old testament men had many wives. Back then women were considered a property and men considered it an honor to have many children, especially to carry one's own name. But as you can see that was man's laws pertaining to polygamy, God had never intended it to be so. He may have permitted it but that is another theological lesson for another time. Look at Genesis, where a man and a woman join and become one, a man leaves his parents to become one with his wife. The church carries that further with the holy sacrament of marriage where one man and one woman become one in Christ in holy matrimony. Therefore even in the secular, it is then safe to argue that two men or two women wanting to marry can be considered disordered because that is not what man and our creator has intended, now if that changes, then it was men who went against God's natural laws and there will always be heavy consequences to disobedience.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 5:20 PM By JLS
PA, neither is worshiping idols necessarily a physical act of intimacy, yet it is the worst of sins.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 5:31 PM By JLS
Abeca, the type of disorder of homosexuality is not at all comparable to the situation with institutionalized polygamous marriage. Homosexual acts are intrinsically sinful; whereas, polygamy is not intrinsically sinful. But Christ ended the institution of polygamy; thus from that moment it became adultrous, and thus sinful. Obviously there is a lot more to be said on the issue of polygamy, but in itself it is natural, which is totally unlike homosexuality. Theft is natural, yet it is a sin; note the difference between the two thieves on either side of Jesus in the Crucifixion: What got one to Heaven and condemned the other was not the thefts they did, but their responses to God. A mother stealing a bottle of milk to keep her infant alive, when there was no other way would not be an intrinsically sinful act, nor even a sinful act, nor probably even could it be morally defined as theft. But aborting her baby for the sake of less poverty would always be intrinsically sinful. No doubt I'm gonna get smacked for my take on polygamy, but I can handle it. Maybe I'll even learn something.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 5:38 PM By JLS
The Truth Hurts, I hadn't quite seen what you have clarified. I see it now, though. I find having a few dogs around me much of the time provides me with a lot of insight into emotional behavior, that is more difficult for me to see among fellow humans. The dogs constantly vie for my favor ... and it is almost impossible to provide optimum. It must be a great grace for a man to provide the right stuff for multiple children. Yet even with the best of fathering, a kid can go the way of Cain. Even St Paul brings up his difficulty with the "thorn in his side" that God uses to help remind him of the need for humility. No doubt with this lengthy thread, that further threads will come about for further discussion on the difficult problems involving the gay issue.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 5:51 PM By JLS
PA, if you went over for coffee in a married woman's home while her husband was not there, you'd be risking your life. Wisdom books in Scripture as well as parables of Jesus caution men not to "hang over their neighbor's doorstep" ... This plainly means to keep your distance from another man's wife, and you should also know from your frequent participation in the Mass and the excellent homilies you hear that it is a sin to place oneself in temptation. After all, don't you recall praying the Our Father and asking God to not lead you into temptation? And what does the subject matter of conversation have to do with spending time close on in another man's home without him there? Have you, PA, ever heard of a "reality check"? And, PA, what do you have to say about your announcement that you would like to do such a visit to someone's wife without them being there? May I recommend to you the penance made available, I think it's, at the Shrine of Our Lady of Knock, where you crawl on your knees for a mile over rough ground while praying your Rosary? And notice, PA, that just as you consistently advocate sinful homosexual relationships, now you advocate sinful adultrous relationships with the wives of other men. You can claim that your heart is innocent, but to the contrary Jesus points out that lust in a man's heart will do him in. Or, wait ... is it possible, PA, that you have no lust in your heart? Wow, are you going to suggest that we change it from "Hail Mary ... " to "Hail PA ... "?
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:46 PM By Grisha
MARK F.: I have to say you are incorrect in assuming Aron and Tomas could permanently live in the US without the passage of the Uniting American Families Act (H.R. 1024, S. 424). I'm currently in the process of completing an affidavit on discrimination against homosexuals in Russia for a Russian lesbian who is totally out of options other than asylum. If you want a case closer to our religious home,Google "Shirley Tan" She is a parishioner here in the Archdiocese of San Francisco who was weeks away from deportation, which was stayed only by a private bill by Diane Feinstein. True, some gay couples can take advantage of various sections of the immigration statues to have the foreign partner stay here, however it's not guaranteed and certainly not permanently.
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Posted Sunday, September 27, 2009 10:10 PM By Phil
This post misrepresents the data on the web site that it links to. Frameline.org has a list of "student clubs and teachers" that have registered to receive its free dvd's, but that doesn't mean that the materials are being incorporated into classes. They could be using them in club and after-school activities, which is perfectly legitimate and within the rights of a school club.
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Posted Monday, September 28, 2009 5:00 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, read what the Catechism say about "inner chastity." Aaron said that he and Tomas are in a committed, monogamous relationship. If Aaron is trying to live a life of "inner chastity" in accordance with his state in life, he very likely is not tempted at all by any man (excluding Tomas). As a person of integrity he may not objectify men in a sexual way. In accepting his orientation he is being honest with himself and in these posts he has attempted to be honest with us.
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Posted Monday, September 28, 2009 8:28 PM By Mark from PA
JLS, having coffee with someone is not advocating sinful adultrous relationships with the wives of other men. And I suppose I really don't have lust in my heart, most certainly not for someone else's wife. I have never been with anyone except my wife and futhermore I have never even entertained the thought. Except for being with my wife I have pretty much lived a chaste life. So this would be absolutely no temptation for me. I don't objectify people. I am a good Christian person and do not believe in adultery. So get your mind out of the gutter.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 4:45 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, from the Catechism, "All the baptized are called to chastity. Christ's followers are called to lead a chaste life." A sense of self-mastery is important. Having coffee with someone would never be an occasion of sin for me. I am not pure or sinless but I am not an agressive person and I don't objectify people.
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Posted Tuesday, September 29, 2009 11:22 PM By Abeca Christian
JLS thank you so much for bringing up Polygamy. I am sorry I did not mean to compare it with homosexuality, if it came out that way, that was not what I wanted to convey. You are right, because at least with Polygamy it still obeys the natural law in reproducing and homosexuality is on it's own because it is sinful, it disobeys the natural laws of fruitfulness etc etc and the church and scripture has always warned against such sinful acts. God's laws condemn sodomy. What I wanted to convey was that Polygamy was created by man, just like divorce, Jesus said that it was never permitted but because of man's own pushiness (these are in my own words) it was permitted, he explained it well with the example of Moses times, from what I can recall from Holy Scripture. What God joins let no man separate. I wanted to express that Polygamy is a form of not only sinfulness but also leading to a disorder due to man's own self gratification.
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Posted Wednesday, September 30, 2009 2:35 PM By Mark from PA
RR, you never backed me up here. I hope you don't agree with JLS. Also, after Mass last night I prayed for your mother in front of the Blessed Sacrament. I hope that she is doing well and that all is well with you and family. Blessings.
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