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Published: March 9, 2009
The show must go on -- UPDATED
Promoters of ‘gay-friendly’ play directed at teens get around archbishop’s cancellation by changing venues
Editor's Note: California Catholic Daily received the following statement from archdiocesan spokesman Maurice Healy late today regarding the change of venue for the play: "I had not heard this. The Archbishop, I am sure, was not aware of this. He presently is in Rome at a communication seminar."
A ‘gay-friendly’ play scheduled over the weekend at Most Holy Redeemer parish but cancelled by Archbishop George Niederauer was performed anyway at a different location – Presentation Theater at the Jesuit-run University of San Francisco.
On March 5, in an email to California Catholic Daily, archdiocesan spokesman Maurice Healy said the play, “Be Still and Know,” would not be performed at Most Holy Redeemer. “The parish has cancelled the play at the request of Archbishop George H. Niederauer,” Healy said. “Bishop William Justice, vicar for clergy, communicated this to the parish.”
 Student actors from Sacred Heart Preparatory School in Atherton had been scheduled to perform “Be Still and Know” on Sunday afternoon, March 8, at Most Holy Redeemer, which according to the parish bulletin, “explores the subject of homosexuality within a Christian, adolescent context.” After the archbishop ordered its cancellation, the play’s promoters simply changed the location.
A poster outside Presentation Theater on the USF campus said “Be Still and Know” would be performed there at 2 p.m. on Sunday, noting also that the student cast and crew would be “joining the Most Holy Redeemer parish community for the 10 a.m. service.” The poster described the drama this way: “This play presents the struggles of teenagers with Christian teaching on homosexuality.”
"Be Still and Know" was first performed on Jan. 30 at the Campbell Theatre for Performing arts on the Sacred Heart campus. “The play, adapted by SHP Drama Director John Loschmann from the novel The God Box by Alex Sanchez, explores the Bible’s view on homosexuality and the struggle adolescents have with their sexual identity and their identity as Christians,” said a Sacred Heart news release about the drama.
California Catholic Daily was unable to reach the chancery over the weekend, so it is not known whether the archbishop agreed to the venue change. But if he did not, this would not be the first time that USF has defied the wishes of the archbishop. Last year, Archbishop Niederauer joined several California bishops in issuing written statements denying retired Sydney, Australia, Auxiliary Bishop Geoffrey Robinson access to diocesan facilities after Robinson published a book that drew condemnation from the Australian Bishops Conference for questioning the authority of the Church. In the book, Robinson called for a reexamination of Church teachings on extramarital sex, women’s ordination, homosexuality, and papal power in order to properly respond to sex abuse by clergy. Robinson’s book, said the bishops, “casts doubt” on the belief that “the Church's Magisterium teaches the truth authoritatively in the name of Christ.” Despite being banned from archdiocesan facilities, USF ignored the archbishop and invited Robinson to speak at the Lane Center for Catholic Studies and Social Thought.
Ironically, the Lane Center today is offering a lecture from noon to 1:30 p.m. by former Jesuit priest James Nickoloff entitled, “Intrinsically Disordered: The Role of the Despised in Establishing the Holiness of the Church.” A USF calendar announcement described the event this way: “A community conversation exploring gay marriage and Catholic identity in light of Proposition 8. This event is sponsored by Joan and Ralph Lane Center for Catholic Studies and Social Thought and USF LGBTQ Caucus.”
Nickoloff is professor emeritus of religious studies at the College of the Holy Cross and current Bannan Fellow at Santa Clara University, said the announcement. At last year’s “Rainbow Alliance Week” at Holy Cross, Nickoloff was billed as one of the speakers on a panel discussing homosexuality and the Bible. The “Rainbow Alliance Week” program described Nickoloff as “a former Jesuit, openly homosexual and married to his homosexual partner in Massachusetts…”
Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 12:09 AM By SHPActor
This performance at USF was one of the single best things I have ever done my entire life.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 4:41 AM By Kell Brigan
Terrific. And, did these loyal Catholics for one single second contemplate why the Archbishop censured the play? Like, maybe all those "opened" bible passages that are in direct contradiction to the Church's teachings?
The most direct impact this sort of thing has on my life is I don't know where or how to support Catholicism financially. All sorts of organizations, especially around SF and LA, look "Catholic", but aren't. This Lent, and otherwise, I usually restrict my financial & volunteer donations specifically to targeted groups that I can vet fully so that I know for sure what I'm supporting. If someone heard "Lane Center for Catholic Studies", they probably assume they were dealing with a Catholic group. Maybe it's time either to crack down on the use of the word "Catholic" or maybe have impramateurs for organizations? Like a Catholic version of a 401c3?
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 6:01 AM By St. Christopher
All the more reason for Benedict XVI to remove the right of USF to call itself a "Catholic" college. Also, why not censure the Jesuits or place them under some sort of Vatican-watch? They seem to lead to endless scandal and have little apparent regard for the Church. So, give the Jesuits their desire -- independence from the Church. A small, but healthy, remnant is so much better than the silly, endlessly squabbling mass of contradiction that the present clergy present. Make the Church pure, so that the business of salvation and evangelization can be its main focus.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 6:01 AM By JLS
They seem to have trouble exploring such issues through the Magisterium of the Church ... maybe because the Church says no to their machinations to forward homosexuality.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:42 AM By Maryanne Leonard
Thank you for this article. Comments on the situation are best withheld until it is known whether the Jesuit-run University of San Francisco has defied the wishes of Archbishop Niederauer, a kindly man who continues to be put in the center of a storm in a city famous for disruptive people and outrageous behavior. There is no position he can take that will not enrage a great many people there, and yet he has managed to lead the Catholic community and its wild and crazy attackers with his best judgment, trying to find a way to minister to people who continue to defy and denounce him.
Thank God there are a few people willing to take on that job. The person best suited to guide the unruly is in fact in place. However lovingly he says no to people or tries to guide them back toward a semblance of sanity, he is the target. I wonder why people feel the need to attack those of us who are just trying to live by the precepts of the Bible and the teaching of the Catholic Church? Why do they want to offend, alienate, hurt, and even destroy what is good in the world? Is it because they are indeed not truly men (and women) of good will? They demand acceptance, but will not accept who the rest of us are.
It will be interesting to read how in the world the Archbishop has attempted yet again to guide the "in your face" crowd toward some semblance of decency. It is no longer interesting to read about how the rebellious defy and defile all that the rest of us hold holy; it is heartbreaking, sad, and makes you wonder when we will ever be able to tolerate them and their outrageous behavior, which they revel in.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 11:07 AM By tom
I would hope that Santa Clara's new President, Father Engh's influence will extend to the machinations of former Jesuit, Professor Nickoloff, to reduce his image as a representative of the University.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 11:28 AM By Ron
Dear SHPActor, if that was one of the best things you have
ever done , IMHO you need to go look for something worthwhile to do. God Bless
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 12:56 PM By Ronnie
The comment by SHPActor is evidence of just how confused our young people are. They have no idea about sin or the consequences, or about the teachings of the Church. Perhaps a refresher course in moral theology would be wise in all our schools and Churches... What a mess.....
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 1:29 PM By Almond Milk
The show must go down!
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 2:01 PM By pete
The Jesuit General of the Order was (is?) making a visitation of the Callifornia Jesuit Province some weeks ago. I wonder what HE would think about these developments. THAT would be the avenue to follow, since the Jesuits are exempt religious with their own jurisdiction for their members on their own property
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 2:30 PM By Laurette Elsberry
Is it not true that the Archbishop has the final word on what religious orders say or do in presenting the Catholic faith? There should be no question as to whether Archbishop Niederauer approved a change of venue for this play. He must tell any Catholic facility NOT to allow it.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 2:57 PM By Mark from PA
Some of the young people sound like they could teach some of their elders a thing or two. May they always accept Christ's message of love for EVERYONE.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 4:05 PM By student
wow, really?? does nobody honestly have anything better to do than talk about this show?!?
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 4:59 PM By RR
student: No, there is nothing better to do than to defend the Church teachings against plays or any kind of garbage that is being promoted by the gay agenda. That is what we need to do to protect the faith. If you think people are going to sit back and keep quiet while you promote your garbage, then you have another thought coming.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 5:02 PM By Kell Brigan
student, look up: The Marriage of Figaro, Lady in the Dark, Pygmalion, Frogs, and Tartuffe, all of which were "just plays."
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 5:07 PM By Eileen
Mark from PA, Are you insinuating that Archbishop Niederauer hasn't accepted Christ's message of love? Are you once again encouraging others to be as disobedient to Christ's Church as you are? It sounds like someone needs to teach you how to stop rationalizing reasons to promote sin and dissent. True love is never packaged in deceit or a lie. True love means a dying of self-love to serve others. You are only interested in serving yourself. You are not helping others you are hurting them. Your refusal to show real love for those who struggle with same sex attraction is very selfish. Please stop your discrimination and hatred towards homosexuals Mark. They deserve God's love that includes the fullness of truth.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 6:28 PM By betty
I agree with you, St. Christopher and with Laurette Elsberry. A Catholic facility should cease to call itself Catholic when it no longer acts like a Catholic facility.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 6:47 PM By Mark from PA
Eileen, these students are NOT promoting sin. I don't find bullying people and stirring up prejudice against them to be "real love." I discriminate against no one Eileen. I am insinuating nothing against Archbishop Niederauer. I feel sorry for the attitudes some here have against intelligent, Catholic students. These young people are growing into Christian adults.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 7:09 PM By sinseenatty
Love thy neighbor. Try it sometime.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 7:15 PM By Concerned parent
To Kell, RR, betty, Please refrain from making any maligning comments to children/students. This is called cyber-bullying and harassment and is frankly, illegal. I'm sure you are all familiar with situations that have turned out for the worst when children have had online bullying. You can continue to talk about the issue of homosexuals and gay marriage amongst yourselves, but please leave the kids, their school and parents out of this discussion. If you have any issue there, please contact the school or the parents directly. Your comments are causing emotional damage and again, this type of verbal harassment is never appropriate. By virtue of the fact that this website posted information on a play, they have been drawn in and feel compelled to defend themselves, their school and their faith (a very normal reaction). Your responses to demean them and call their values garbage is just wrong. It is not your place to lecture a child online. You are in no position to pass judgement on kids you do not personally know. And if you do know them, then this is not the place. Again, please leave the kids out of this. Take any and all issues on this subject directly to the school and to the parents and to the Archdiocese. Thank you.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 7:24 PM By Concerned parent
My comments actually apply to Ron, Ronnie, Almond Milk and others who are attacking children, as I have just read this entire thread. Please think about what you are doing. Thank you.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 7:36 PM By Parent in Woodside
RR, You are out-of- line in communicating with a child like that. I almost see it as a threat, which should be rescinded immediately. You have no place reprimanding a child, especially online. I suggest an apology,
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:10 PM By SHP alum
Concerned parent and parent in Woodside, these "children" have stepped into the world of adult conversation by their actions of performing a play for an audience of adults outside their high school. They are also making statements pertaining to Catholic faith. Anyone is entirely within their right to post comments critical of them or praising them. The students cannot step into the adult world of exchanging ideas and then, as you suggest, hide behind the label of "child" to escape criticism of their remarks. If they can't stand the heat then they shouldn't enter the kitchen.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:15 PM By JLS
Here is one little blurb from a comprehensive letter to bishops on the wiles of the homosexual agenda: "Nevertheless, increasing numbers of people today, even within the Church, are bringing enormous pressure to bear on the Church to accept the homosexual condition as though it were not disordered and to condone homosexual activity. Those within the Church who argue in this fashion often have close ties with those with similar views outside it. These latter groups are guided by a vision opposed to the truth about the human person, which is fully disclosed in the mystery of Christ. They reflect, even if not entirely consciously, a materialistic ideology which denies the transcendent nature of the human person as well as the supernatural vocation of every individual." -- Letter To The Bishops Of The Catholic Church On The Pastoral Care Of Homosexual Persons -- Given at Rome, 1 October 1986. JOSEPH Cardinal RATZINGER Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:20 PM By Kell Brigan
Dear Children of "Concerned Parent":
Welcome to the real world. When you insult someone's religious beliefs, when you presume to misuse a school's and a religion's facilities to undermine that religion and that school, when you get into a discussion with grown ups, please know they may disagree with you and you might get your feelings hurt and get all upset because nobody's obeying you even when you called them a "bigot" and everything. Deal with it. It's good for you.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:28 PM By JLS
PA, you obviously know better than the Archbishop, who has banned the play, largely for the benefit of the souls of the children seduced into taking part in it.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:39 PM By gravey
Perhaps if some of these parents were properly catechized, the faithful would not have to publically correct their children.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 9:48 PM By Joseph
Concened parent (s): Skip the contrived drama. Who says there are any children posting on this thread? All I see are a lot of anonymous blog comments.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 10:07 PM By Paul
RR is right on. No need to apologize. Parent in Woodside is out of line. Teaching children that homosexuality is OK is child abuse.
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Posted Monday, March 09, 2009 11:10 PM By Eileen
Parent in Woodside, Instead of telling RR that she is out-of-line in her communications with a child, why are you not communicating that this play is out-of-line and should be rescinded immediately? Many Catholics do recognize this play as a threat, including the Archbishop. RR, simply informed this student that if he or she did not think that the faith was worth defending, then they have another "thought" coming.....The "thought" meaning that defending the faith and protecting children is always worth the time. Thankfully, there are still no "thought police" at this precarious time in history for you to file your false thought report to. If you are only terribly concerned about children being told on line that the faith is worth defending and you are able to ignore plays that manipulate and re-write the Gospel to further the homosexual agenda, perhaps you should communicate to this very expressive young child to stay off-line without parental guidance. I suggest that you are the one who owes an apology to RR. I can tell you from RR's previous posts that she is not at all interested in demanding apologies. She already forgives you for rash judging her. She is a faithful Catholic mother who is truly interested in the souls and spiritual well being of children and also adults.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:11 AM By Tom
We need to love and embrace and understand each other. Closing the door in someone's face will not achieve that.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:49 AM By Aaron
Recent studies clearly reveal the vast majority of young people (age 18-24) fully support equal civil rights for gays (up to and including marriage). Young people view the church position on homosexuality as outright hypocrisy! Archbishop Niederauer's decision to shut down the play is likely to be viewed as another example of church hypocrisy and will permanently estrange MANY high school students from the church. Thank God for the Jesuits who seem to understand these things; perhaps a few of these students can eventually return to the church.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:39 AM By Melissa
Parents and students: You are all playing with mortal sin. Therefore it is a spiritual work of mercy to "inform the sinner". In other words, these comments should be a wake-up call from your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that something in your actions and thoughts needs to be prayed on... reflected... sought counsel for from the bishop/faithful priest. If you are so concerned about your children, why in heaven would you subject them to a school curriculum that embraces sinful acts and subverts Church teaching. Please take a few steps back from your emotions... and seek the Wisdom of the Holy Spirit. Take this opportunity to heal your hearts and school... you are covered by the Sacred Heart of Jesus... that doesn't mean that you will not lose your way but it does mean that you have sufficient Grace to cooperate with God to find Truth and real Love. Courage and Hope my slightly lost brothers and sisters! Seek the voice of the Shepherd... the closest in human form lives in a place called Rome.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:42 AM By RR
Concerned parent & Parent in Woodside: A child? Well, if they are a "child" then they should not be posting on this ADULT website. Where are their parents? Maybe their parents should put a block on their computer. These are young adults posting on this website and if they are old enought to know about being gay and homosexuality, and putting on plays about it, then they are old enough to know and be taught that it is mortally sinful to be an ACTIVE homosexual and to promote the homosexual lifestyle. Their was no threat whatsoever when I said we will not be silent and I will not apologize for defending God and the Church. We, as the Church, will not accept or condone any play or anything where the gay agenda is accepted and promoted. I am not in your area, but if I were I would be writing letters and making phone calls all over the place to see to it that the play would not be shown, at least not in any Catholic place. That is what I meant about saying they have, "another thought coming." It was in NO WAY a threat. It's your way and the gay agenda way to make it look like defenders of the Church are threatening or haters. We are defending our faith here on this blog and I have every right to defend the True Faith and True Church here. We have every right to post on here and I feel very sorry for these students who are involved in this play because obviously they are being taught & brainwashed that it is O.K. to be an ACTIVE homosexual. From what I have read this play is promoting heresy and reinterpreting the bible to fit the homosexual lifestyle. Catholic are not going to just sit by and put up with this heresy. We are going to fight for the Faith and we will not let anyone bully us or silence us into accepting & promoting the gay agenda .
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:13 AM By RR
Concerned parent: I have a couple questions I would like to ask you if you don't mind answering them. One question is this: Why is this play being shown? We as Catholics know that we are to show homosexual persons compassion. I think, for the most part, Catholics do. I know there are some Catholics out there who do not show compassion for homosexuals. But you know what, that is their sin and some day they will answer for it. Another question I have is: Why in the play do they reinterpret the Bible to fit the gay lifestyle? That is outright blasphemy. Do you expect people to just sit back and remain silent about this? God is being taken out of the world as it is and then the Bible is being mocked? How much more are we as Catholics and defenders of the faith suppose to take? Now, this play promoting what the Catholic Church teaches is a mortally sinful lifestyle and getting these young adults to promote it. It's very sad to me. These young adults are being brainwashed into thinking that it is O.K. to live an ACTIVE homosexual lifestyle. We, as Catholics know that it is not a sin to be a homosexual, but it is a mortal sin to knowingly be an ACTIVE homosexual. So, why are these young adults putting on this play? They should not be involved in this type of ADULT theme play. And most of all, why at a Catholic place when you know it will cause problems? To me and other Catholics it is seen as another way God is being mocked. To me and other Catholics it is seen as our will be done instead of God's.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:32 AM By RR
Concerned parent: One comment I forgot to mention. We, as Catholics, do not see this as the students defending their faith because the acceptance of ACTIVE homosexuality is not in accordance with Church teaching. We see it as they are defending homosexuality (when acted upon is mortally sinful) and we see it as spiritual suicide. I did not lecture a child online. I told a young adult online that promoting homosexuality and promoting it will not be accepted or condoned. I also in no way passed judement on these kids. I actually feel a lot of compassion & sorrow for these kids because I see the gay agenda using these kids to further the promotion and acceptance of the Active homosexual lifestyle agenda. Why do the adult homosexuals have to bring their lifestyle to our young adults to promote it? These young adults are victims of the adult homosexual lifestyle agenda. So sad.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:49 AM By Almond Milk
Concerned parent I talked to my attorney and he disagreed with you. It sounds to me that you have a problem with freedom of speech! This is a Catholic website with news articles affecting our values and church life. These are posts which people have the free will to post especially in defense of church teachings. So Concerned parent I am a real concerned parent and your comments I found very frightening and disturbing, we are sorry that you feel the need to intimidate people from actually objecting to these sort of things. RR I applaud your comments and we did nothing illegal. It is not illegal to object and since there were no personal attacks, especially since we do not know these people personally, no law was broken. I feel sorry for Concerned parent that she would view my comments as attacking students. I pity you. Your comments are pretty much also conveying that this Catholic website had not right to write about this article and it's contents, your comments are truly ill willed. I take your comments offensive and because of that, i will continue my work in the good fight. We are all seeing parents who continue to condone the undermining of our faith and the faithful. Truly sad.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:14 AM By Almond Milk
The way I see it, if you are going to post something on any website, man up and take it if someone is going to object to your comments, especially when a faithful posts here, we are only commenting out of frustration to so many scandals and immortal behavior that is affecting our youth and our faith these days. I think that if anyone can't handle any posts coming back regarding any comments posted here than don't post. Plus with so many ill willed people posting here, no one can truly identify or verify if that post was actually coming from a student or even if they say they are a female or male, who knows. If someone came on here and said they were a cop, we have no way to verify that. Everything that I posted I posted out of charity and if someone took it other than it's intention, so be it, I don't really care. It does not bother me because at the end of the day, it is God whom I have to answer to, and that is when I care. I answer to a higher authority. Thank you for your time, look forward to reading more of your posts next week. : )
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:06 AM By Mark from PA
As one of the faithful, I say God bless the students and faculty of Sacred Heart Preparatory School.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 11:51 AM By Ronnie
Beware of those who try and accuse others of attacking children when it is they who are endangering children with their rationalization of sin.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:16 PM By Interview
About USF, someone I know once went for an interview there and the interviewer told this person, "Don't worry, we aren't really a Catholic University."
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:20 PM By Cy
USF has a new scholarship fundraising campaign called "Keeping Faith with Students."
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:53 PM By Mea Culpa
PA- you say God bless the students and faculty for disobeying their bishop and putting on a play promoting homosexuality? And you're teaching Religious Education to young people as a representative of a parish of the Catholic Church? Since when did the cardinal virtues become dissent, disobedience, pride, and homosexuality?
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:57 PM By Parent
What a very sad commentary I have just read on this site. As I read through, RR, yes, you did attack a student by telling them that they were promoting "garbage." Kell, I don't see anywhere where a student used the word "bigot," but your comments to them were very strong, including telling them to "deal with it." Almond Milk, you tell them to "man up." Melissa, you tell students that they are "dealing with mortal sin." I would have to agree with the blogger that says these comments and others are considered cyber bullying, which yes, is definitely illegal. To Almond Milk, I also spoke to a lawyer, and this type of harassment is in fact wrong. It has nothing to to with free speech, but dealings with a child. No, kids should not be on a lot of sites, especially this one. But consider this. An article has been posted about them and their school. That seems to have lured them into the site and the subsequent comments. I think we all have seen situations where children have had serious effects from harassment and internet bullying, even to the extent of suicide. It also appears that the book in question, and the actual play were different. So, who are we to pass such critical judgement if we haven't actually seen it? The blogger recommends that we contact the school directly. I, for one, am going to take this route. I would never presume or make assumptions that might be incorrect. How do you really know what the parents have taught their children about homosexuality? It really is not up to us to pass judgement. Yes, no one should prevented from discussions on subjects like this. But by attacking and involving children (which is what I have observed after reading these blogs twice), aren't you defeating one purpose you would like to achieve, which is bringing them into God's fold? The advice that I read to leave kids out of this, which means not criticizing and attacking them, their families, their schools, and, their values, seems the right thing
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:02 PM By Parent
So let's take the Christ-like approach, and stop all of these attacks. If we haven't actually personally talked to any of the parents/school/students referred to in this bog, we can't pass judgements -- which we shouldn't do anyway. I would think that the point of these blogs should be not to condemn, but to discuss ways to positively impact and change our world. To quote Tom, "We need to love and embrace to understand each other."
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:20 PM By RR
To all supporters of this play: Why have this play at all? Why not teach the young adults the 3r's: Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic. Get rid of all the sexual garbage (gay or straight) out of the classrooms and teach classes with substance.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 1:40 PM By Kell Brigan
From "Edge Magazine" Boston 3/9/9 about the play (emphasis added): "Joe Eskenazi, writing in the blogs section of SF Weekly.com, reported that the play had been adapted from the novel "The God Box" by Alex Sanchez, in which a teenage boy named Paul, who lives in a small town, meets an openly gay Christian his own age, a teen named Manuel. he gay teen’s ability to fuse both aspects of his person into a unified whole, IN DEFIANCE OF CHURCH DOGMA, points the way for Paul to process thoughts and feelings of his own that he’s never dared confront."
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:08 PM By RR
Parent: Since when is stating your oppinion on a blog a crime? I am entitled to my oppinion. In my oppinion this play is garbage. There was no intent on my part to cyber bully anyone, let alone a child. If the editor of this blog thought I was cyber-bullying a child, he would not have posted my comment. If I had any intention of cyber-bullying a child, I surely wouldn't be doing it on a Catholic blogsite.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 2:59 PM By Grace56
Parents who think this play is "ok" and student who participate and promote his play are endangering their souls. Parents who are crying cyber bullying, because people here are willing to stand up for Biblical truth are in full denial and have become the though police.
FYI posting opinions that one doesn't like is NOT cyber stalking!
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:11 PM By RR
Parent: Also, I did not call the blogger "student" garbage. I said the play was garbage. To have it be cyber bullying it has to be against a person, child, or human being... I was referring to the play as garbage and I was NOT bullying anyone whatsoever, especially a child. I have never in my life bullied anyone and I have no intention ever to start. It's another gay agenda tactic to make it appear that I was cyber bullying a child. I am a stay-at-home mom of four, homeschooling mom, and a full-time babysitter of two babies and if anyone accuses me on here of being a cyber bully then that is defamation of character and is also illegal. Get the point? Stop all of the illegal tactics. Let's get back to the heart of the issue, the play.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:27 PM By Sue
RR, Then you have seen the play?
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:48 PM By RR
Sue: No, I have not seen the play, but I have read enough about it to know it contradicts Church teaching and even the Bishop said "no" to it. That's enough for me to know that it's no good.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 3:50 PM By Almond Milk
Ronnie and Grace56 thank you for your posts. They are truly righteous and noble comments, glad you saw right through those posts. It looks like the parent making all these accusations of cyberbullying has his or her own agenda to carry and is against anyone who is strongly against this play. That parent truly have Animosity in their thinking, makes me wonder if they have truly read my posts or only saw what malice they wanted to make up in their heart. I like RR's 3 r's comment too. She is right on! You can always tell who is truly with Christ and who isn't. Thanks Mea Culpa for pointing out what you posted. I ask the same question.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:06 PM By JLS
Sue, there is more than one way to see or know something; in this case we are seeing the play through the comments of its defenders. There are many who simply cannot see corruption. Such is the case with many homosexualists, since that behavior is about as corrupt as it gets. One of the almost scary things about turning away from sin and being cleaned up from it is that you begin to see a great deal of moral corruption. Try it and see.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:29 PM By Sue
I have another question. I just found you guys and read about this subject. Of those criticizing and opposed to the play, Who has actually seen it? It looks like there was a session after the play. What did you not like (or like) about that session? And, please you don't need to come down on me or lecture me about the subject of homosexuals. I have read all of your comments and don't need a rehash. I supported Prop 8 and totally understand all of that. I'm just interested in those 2 questions, from only people who have seen it. (No agendas from me at all, I'm just curious, as this seems like such a heated debate) Thanks!
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:53 PM By Sue
Sorry, one more question. Of all of you who are so adamantly opposed to this play, who has called the school and what was their reply?
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:18 PM By Mary
Kell, in regard to the Edge Magazine quote, the two "fused" aspects are "openly gay" (a term the article does not define) and "Christian". The article describes the fusion of these two by the character Manuel as allegedly "in defiance of Church dogma", but does not describe the play itself to be in defiance. Of course, Edge Magazine is not an authority on Church dogma and the claim is questionable on its face, and that's what we’re told the play does: question that claim. Perhaps someone who's actually seen the play can comment on how "openly gay" the character Manuel is in the play. Without knowing that, it's not possible to know whether Manuel's character is truly in conflict with Church dogma in fusing "openly gay" with "Christian", or merely allegedly. For example, "openly gay" can mean a person who shares with others that he experiences same sex attraction or even a person who admits engaging in same-sex sex acts in the past. Groups like CourageRC have many such “openly gay” people and yet they’re not "in defiance of Church dogma". I have not seen anything about this play (from people who've actually seen it) that says the play encourages people to engage in sex acts. Without clarification of terms, it is quite possible for Christians to be "openly gay" just as they can be "openly straight" and not be "in defiance of Church dogma".
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:23 PM By Lisa T.
I'm just wondering if the school administration at Sacred Heart School and St. Joseph's would feel comfortable letting their Pre-K through 8th graders watch this play. If the answer is no then why would they let their high school students perform in this sort of play? Sacred Heart School Prep School and St. Joseph's school of the Sacred Heart, Pre-K through 8th grades share the same property and are ran by or are associated with the Society of the Sacred Heart, a women's religious order. I'm guessing this is a private Catholic school and not ran by or subsidized by the diocese however, the bishop still has power over this school.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:26 PM By Grace56
There is a great deal about the play The God Box on the web and anyone can go to Alex Sanchez's web page to see what he promotes. An unorthodox interpretation of the Bible where active homosexual behavior is "ok"!
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:33 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Parent,
Have you not read how Our Lord upset the tables and whipped those who were defaming His Father's House?
If you have, maybe you should read it again.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:43 PM By Linda Maria
Everyone involved in this horrible play needs to be excommunicated, and the students need to be kicked out of Catholic school! USF and the Jesuits, as well as Sacred Heart Prep need to be either responsibly transformed into true Catholic schools-- or else close permanently!! The Church needs to responsibly establish strict rules and regulations for its overall operation of all parishes, schools, religious orders, universities, hospitals, charities; etc.etc. It is so ridiculous and irresponsible, that the Code of Canon Law is ignored totally!!
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:44 PM By MarkF
RR, you are so right. This is the tactic of the pro-homosexual people. They cry martyrdom and persecution at the drop of the hat. It is homosexuality that threatens kids, not the Church's teachings, nor people on here. I wish that the students on here could somehow know what sort of lifestyle homosexuality really is. It is far more debauched and nasty than they can even imagine. Homosexuality had been packaged and sanitized by the media and certainly by this play. As for the possibility of being Christian and supporting the homosexual sin or of being an active homosexual, well, I've yet to see one whose religion isn't homosexuality itself. This play it seems from this vantage point is another example of just that. In that religion, anything that supports homosexuality is praised; anything that condemns it is demonized.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:47 PM By Saw the Play
Mary. I saw the play. No where does it make any reference, comment or innuendo to any encouragement at all of same sex acts of any kinds. It's really just a discussion of homosexuality and discussion by those both opposed to and why someone might struggle with the idea/feelings of being gay. I can understand how some could be upset, if they've only been to the Sanchez website. It's really, really, really different than the play. Sounds trite, but you really did need to see it. Great discussion of the subject and left up to the audience to decide how you felt about the subject. (No mention or talk of same sex marriage. It was mainly about respect, and by that I mean avoiding name calling, physically harming, etc. Not at all what you see on the website)
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:51 PM By Parent
Mark F. I'm not pro-homosexual at all; just the opposite. These were my observations as I found this site today and read through all of the comments. RR. No, no "gay agenda" tactic. I'm against gay marriage.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:55 PM By Sue
RR and JLS. Thanks, I understand what you are saying. But I really would like to hear from people who are against the play and saw it and went to the session afterwards.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:02 PM By JK
grace56 The God Box was a book. The play was called Be Still and Know. Two totally different things.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:11 PM By Mary
Grace56, there is actually very little about the play on the web. The play is technically not the same as the book The God Box and is not per se written by Alex Sanchez but is an adaptation by SHP Drama Director John Loschmann. Whatever it is that Alex Sanchez might promote (and that is unclear from his website), it does not mean that the play promotes it. The play is not Alex Sanchez.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:15 PM By Anne T.
Well, if it is as you say, Saw the Play, it might have some redeeming social value. I am skeptical, though, after all that has gone on at MHR parish.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:26 PM By Mary
MarkF, homosexuality is not a lifestyle. Homosexuality as defined by the Church is sex acts. People of many different lifestyles might engage in those acts. If you made poor choices in your life, such as promiscuity, drugs, etc. that is not homosexuality. Heterosexual persons make those same kinds of mistakes. I in fact know homosexual persons who do not subscribe to your alleged "religion" of "anything that supports homosexuality is praised", just as I know persons who rightly do not subscribe to the view that anything that supports heterosexuality be praised.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:47 PM By Lisa T.
saw the play, there are all sorts of deviant disoders, addictions, trials, etc. plays can be based on. The question is how appropriate is it for Catholic hs students to watch or perform in these plays. I doubt very much that these students are hearing much if anything about the Church's teaching on homosexuality in their religion classes. My guess is they're getting alot of lessons in social justice.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:49 PM By Ed
Parent, I agree with most of your points but was taken aback when you insinuated that it was harassment to talk to children about "mortal sin" and that you should not criticize their schools. Hopefully that just came out wrong. God bless!
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 6:51 PM By Mark from PA
Saw the Play said that the play "was mainly about respect, and by that I mean avoiding name calling, physically harming, etc." What is so terrible about that? What is so terrible about teaching kids to treat those who are different with respect?
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:39 PM By Grace56
Lisa T you are so right. this is a topic that needs to remain in the home and the church. Events like this do only one thing desensitize people from sin.
The God Box is *not* a morality play that condemns the sin of fornication. One has to wonder what this play is doing at a Catholic institution.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:47 PM By Grace56
From a review of the God Box.... it shows Christians how to embrace being homosexual without surrendering their commitment to Jesus.
As I said, this is a book that promotes the liberal interpretation of the Bible that homosexual behavior is not sinful.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:34 PM By Mark from PA
Grace56, perhaps it is a morality play that condemns the sins of bullying, name calling, physically harming, etc. Aren't these things sins too?
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:39 PM By Saw the Play
Mark from PA, My point was that the play did teach that. You and I are in total agreement on that issue. (Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly. The play make a big point of teaching that everyone should be treated with respect.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:39 PM By Two thoughts
I really do hope that the amount of time many of you spend criticizing gay persons and this play, you also spend helping the poor, working towards bringing about peace in the world, and smiling to your neighbor. I try to spend more of my time doing that then thinking about what someone else is doing in the bedroom, since I've noticed the former seems to help my community out more in the end. I am reminded of this Sunday's Gospel, when Jesus gets angry at the men for restricting access to G*d's house during Passover, by selling things outside. The people who lived before Jesus saw these tithings as purely the status quo of the church, but Jesus brought up new ideas, and people changed. I have faith that our church IS the people, and people evolve. I have faith that Jesus knew this, because he was wise.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:45 PM By Saw the Play
Lisa T, It is my understanding that the religion class did discuss homosexuality and the Church's views. Thus the discussions sessions afterwards. It really was different than what you see on Alex Sanchez' site. He didn't even see the play.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:51 PM By Parent
Ed: What I meant was that people that don't know a child maybe shouldn't tell that child they are "dealing with mortal sin." If Melissa in fact saw the play, and knows the kids, it seems more appropriate to talk to the parents. If not, then maybe she should find a way to contact them directly.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:52 PM By Saw the Play
Grace56, There is no reference to "fornication" at all in the play. It did not advocate any active sexual relations at all.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:54 PM By RR
Parent: I'm Sorry & I wholeheartedly apologize! I thought you were accusing me of the same thing concerned parent was accusing me of. Some people may have perceived what I said as an attack, but it was no attack intended on my part whatsoever. All I was stating was that Catholics were not going to just let this play happen without their voices being heard. I can't help how people interpret things, but believe me when I say there was nothing threatening meant in my post. It is however a tactic the gay agenda uses. Anyone who disagrees with them are "haters" and now aparently "cyber bullies". They try to make anyone who disagrees with them appear so bad. Have a great evenng! :)
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:58 PM By Lisa T.
Mark from PA, With that way of thinking why stop at a play about homosexuality and the people who struggle with that orientation? Maybe we should go a step or two further have Catholic high school students perform and or watch plays about people who struggle with sexual attraction towards their blood relatives, animals or small children. Our Christian beliefs would call on us to have respect for all our brothers and sisters who have mental diseases, sexual disorders and addictions. Seriously though, it's not wise to have these students to explore these disorders through a play sponsored/endorsed and put on by their Catholic high school. The fact that the play doesn't touch on the Catholic Church's teaching on homosexuality is especially dangerous because these very impressionable teens are left to their own interpretations or beliefs on the subject of homosexuality.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:06 PM By JLS
Grace56, ideally sex ed would be taught in the family and Church. Ideally, however, does not exist. Do you know what typical conversations and interactions one finds in public schools these days? If you did, you'd never say what you said, because blatant sex is now a public issue in our society. The issue needs to be dealt with, but it has to be dealt with truthfully, honestly and according to the Magisterium of the Church.
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:50 PM By Grace56
I just finished reading the God Box which the play is based on... sorry guys you can try and twist yourself into moral pretzels if you like... one can *not* be an active homosexual and a practicing Bible believing Christian. If the play promotes the liberal interpretation of Romans and other anti-homosexual sin verses in the Bible then it doesn't belong in a Catholic school!
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Posted Tuesday, March 10, 2009 10:04 PM By Ellen
Grace58, if "it shows Christians how to embrace being homosexual without surrendering their commitment to Jesus," I'm on board with that. That's great!
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:52 AM By Anne T.
Well, if what Grace56 said is true in her March 10, 2009, post at 7:47 p.m., this is definitely not a play that should be done for students. Everyone who has seen it seems to have a different spin on it, but if it is okaying homosexual acts or fornication, it should not be given at any kind of truly Christian school, or even in public school.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:30 AM By Lisa T.
If anyone is wondering how much tuition the parents at Sacred Heart Prep pay for their students to get this particular sort of Catholic education..... here it is: $28,635. It's bad enough when these kinds of activities are taking place in our public schools which are free but when it happens in our Catholic schools where people are paying this kind of money. I think someone should let these parents know what kinds of activities and events have been allowed at MHR. Please google: Homosexual Activism in the Archdiocese of San Francisco. Videos which were shot in a Catholic church hall should not have a "Caution, adults only" warning on it.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:34 AM By Also Saw Play
Anne T Oh my goodness! Where did anyone get the idea that they play ok's any sexual acts?! it absolutely does not. The play takes place in a small, very conservative town. There is no condoning of acts like this, only exploring respect for all people. There seems to be some confusion about the play vs the book and website. The two aren't the same. How many times have you read and book and then seen the movie and been totally surprised at how different they were?
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 11:52 AM By Kell Brigan
One answer to this would be to post the revised script online. (Or, at least, send it to the Archbishop's office.) Making it available online would allow more specfic debate on whether or not it actually is pro- or anti-Catholic teaching.
And, if such extraordinary changes were made in the play versus the book, why isn't the play being condemned by the book's author?
And, why did two different reviews talk about the play's supporting anti-Catholic ideas?
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:43 PM By Lisa T.
Kell, That's a good idea. I'd like to see the script that the students performed.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 1:16 PM By Mary
Kell, what "two different reviews" talk about the "play supporting anti-Catholic ideas"? For example, if you're talking about the so-called "review" in Edge Magazine, that was not a review. That was someone's "news" article on a gay website that was redacted from comments on someone's satirical anti-Catholic blog. The writer probably never even saw the play. Likewise, the review of the book which alleged "shows Christians how to embrace being homosexual without surrendering their commitment to Jesus," is not a claim that it supports anti-Catholic ideas because anything that's in keeping with a commitment to Jesus cannot be anti-Catholic. As to putting the script online, the public has no right to that. The book is available, in part, online. As to "extraordinary changes" allegedly made to the play vs the book, it's been said that the play is different from the book, but no one on these forums has convincingly shown a problem with the book, e.g. no one has shown that the book actually promotes homosexual sex acts. If the Archbishop was interested, I'm sure he could have attended a rehearsal or sent someone to see it for him. I read that during the first performance, the first row was filled with priests and nuns who stood up and applauded.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 2:12 PM By Talitha Kumi
Why THIS book? Why adapt a play from THIS book? What, a shortage of good, classical AND Catholic material, is that it? Umm... the answer to that would be NO!
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:20 PM By Kell Brigan
Mary, the problem is not just promoting homosexual acts. It's also presuming to "open" bible passages to make them appear to not condemn homosexual acts as "intrinsically disordered" and "contrary to natural law". This is the same sin as claiming the bible endorses abortion, i.e. ultimately grounds for excommunication, if pursued.
And, why THIS book (which is celebrated by plenty of people in favor of same sex marriage and hoards of gay "rights" activists), instead of one more clearly in keeping with Catholic teaching. I got a response back from Courage Apostolate when I wrote to ask about plays that would help teens understand the Church's position on homosexuality. They wrote, "You're right there is a need. A performance piece was written for the Brother's Keeper II conference for Youth Leaders a few years ago, in which I appeared. We're swamped here but perhaps we should review that play again and see if there is anything in it of value for the purpose you've mentioned." Why didn't the organizers of this play dig a little deeper and find something less heretical? If I could, they could. Sorry, but I think the answer is "Because they didn't want to." I wonder, if we took a blind poll, how many of the actors and organizers of this play would say they were in favor of gay "marriage". How many would say they endorsed and celebrated the work of NARTH and Jonah and Courage?
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:43 PM By Oscar
I noticed that the user guidelines at the bottom of this page forbid offensive and libelous language, yet some people here are pointing their finger at gays and calling them "deviant", "debauched", "nasty" and even comparing gay people to those who would have sex with animals and young children. This is against what the Church teaches about how to treat others and I believe Jesus also teaches that. Where are the moderators?
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:52 PM By Lisa T.
Mary, if the priests who stood up and applauded are Jesuits from USF then all I can say is... it figures. And I hope the nuns you are referring to aren't the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. Just kidding. The religious sisters you saw could be from the Society of the Sacred Heart, the community that is affiliated with the school. Here's a quote from the sisters website: "We continue our mission to work for justice and peace as educators and women of reconciliation." From looking at the photos on the RSCJ website it appears the sisters no longer wear a habit of any kind.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 3:58 PM By Anne T.
It seems as though, from reading bloggers's e-mail, that the book is different from the play and not as bad as the book. Never-the-less, if the book is as bad as some say, then the play should not be encouraged either as it would encourage students to read the book also.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:14 PM By MarkF
On the subject of how we who have not seen this play can opine about it - it's called experience. A lot of us are very experienced with how dissenters confuse issues, and spread a fog of words around what they're really doing. Thus when I hear that this play does not promote sexual acts, I accept that but only as far as it goes. I'd be very suspicious of anything coming out of MHR parish. And no, it's not satisfying to me at least that you have some characters in the play support the Church's teaching, while at the same time you apparently have at least one other character who claims to be an active homosexual and still a Christian. This gives the young people the impression that there is an equality between these two views, when they should be showed that the latter view is an illusion that leads to the loss of your soul, loss of your moral compass and the ruination of your life. If some of the young people on here think that homosexuality SEEMS ok ("what can be wrong with love?"), please recall that ALL sin seems fine at the beginning, and that the Church only opposes what's bad for us. Homosexuality is not what it seems to be. It is by its nature deceptive. That is why many of us are very suspect of a play that we have not seen.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 4:51 PM By Student fromLA
Ok I am going to finish my play idea of a kid who is being bullied by homosexuals. The kid is a Christian and it would convey how they hated him for his believes. There will be music and singing and even dancing. The main character will even be silenced when he would try to preach the word of God. I made up a diverse range of characters, I have just began to even add parents who intimated the Christians because they wouldn't accept their homosexual children. You would see persecution of Christians at it's best. I got the idea from real stories that I read about in everyday life. One of the songs I wrote was called "force the Christians" another would be "fool the world". My parents object to me finishing this play because of fear what would the homosexual community do to me. Christians always charitably speak their minds and object prayerfully with "just" action to stop scandals from occurring but those who object family values and truth will actually amount to violence. Those are my thoughts and I am just passing by. I appreciate everyone here who are objecting to this play. As a student I need true leadership and adults who will not allow such a waste of time with these plays. They have no place in a Christian campus. Lets share our talents spreading the faith not with these plays. It is confusing for us because we don't know what they are actually trying to let us know.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 5:44 PM By JLS
Talitha, you've hit the nail on the head: Why such a book for a Catholic student play? There are so many books and plays that are faithful to the Tradition of the Church to choose from.
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Posted Wednesday, March 11, 2009 7:41 PM By Mea Culpa
Why not have a play about the life of one of the many Catholic saints? Or dramatizing a story out of the Bible? Our Catholic tradition is so rich with stories that are unknown and ignored today, why not do something positive by bringing some of those to light? Why a play about homosexuality? ......... To the parents of these children - have you been to a "gay pride" parade? Is that really the lifestyle you want for your children?
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:50 AM By Grace56
I agree with Talitha. Why *this* book!! There are plenty of good Christian books that could accomplish the same thing with out singling out homosexuality as something that needs *special* treatment.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:11 PM By Mary
Lisa T, the priests and nuns the commenter noted were not at USF. They were at SHP.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 1:55 PM By LOT
People are being disengenuous in claiming the that this play does not promote deviant behavior just because it is not observed. Traditionally journalists use "homosexual" as clinical term while the use of the word "gay" implies acceptance of the "gay" lifestyle. How terrible of the administration of Sacred Heart Atherton to confuse gullible young people with this kind of deception! Also, is it an open discussion when people CLAIMING to be "parents" come on this blog and threaten us because we don't share their anything goes attitude. Why are they trying to stifle our freedom of speech? Where is the tolerance for other viewpoints they talk about?
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:38 PM By Grace56
Wow Student fromLA that would be a great story!!
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 2:39 PM By Grisha
Lot: If the AB acted solely on the use of "gay" vs. "homosexual," I'm very disappointed. Does anyone know where he got his information on which to base his decision? The folks here who actually saw it paint a much different image than those who havn't.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:02 PM By Mary
MarkF, what is your authority to claim this play has a main "character who claims to be an active homosexual and still a Christian"? By "active" I take it that you are claiming the person is actively engaging in same-sex sex acts. Please substantiate your claim because this is a serious claim about the play, and it would be false witness if it's not true.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 3:25 PM By JLS
Why not a play about stopping abortion? Or do they consider homosexuality to be a more important issue?
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:02 PM By Mary
So many posters asking "why not". It's like an epidemic. Indeed, why not this play? And, why not stop asking why not? If you want a play about stopping abortion, go get it done. Some people may feel abortion is "more important" but that doesn't preclude there being a play on subjects other than abortion. After all, the Church doesn't just teach on abortion but on many subjects, because it's "more important" that all subjects be addressed rather than just abortion. Likewse, this play isn't the only play and SHP isn't the only school and winter 2009 isn't the only season. Like most everything else, it comes and goes.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:10 PM By Mea Culpa
Why is a Catholic school putting on a play about homosexuality in defiance of the local bishop in the first place? And what kind of parents would let their kids be involved in MHR parish, where David Differding is coordinator of the Liturgy Planning Group. He also serves as an acolyte. He has also been a contestant and judge in the Golden Dildeaux awards - google "homosexual activism san francisco" to see more of the wonderful, wholesome, family-oriented activities that take place at MHR parish (irony alert - the activities are so unwholesome that pictures are prefaced with a warning that they are for adults only - these are pictures of activities in a Catholic Church) ..... this is where these "parents" were sending their children to put on a play about homosexuality. I guess there were no wolves available that weekend to throw their children to.
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Posted Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:16 PM By JLS
Mary, Abortion, as taught by the Church and as reiterated countless times by many many bishops and the popes of our time, is the fundamental concern of the Church today. You have to discern with a patient who has both a scraped elbow and a severed foot, which to treat. Sometimes you have to devote your entire treatment time, talent and treasure to that which is critical. One thing the gay lobby does is remove resources from the fight to end abortion. This is one reason why so many pro-life souls are opposed to the social movement of the homosexual community, because they are interfering with God's work. They are promoting sin and draining resources that fight abortion. Stop abortion first, and then devote yourself to cleaning up the homosexual mess.
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 12:32 AM By Lisa T.
EVERYONE ON THIS BLOG NEEDS TO GOOGLE "HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISM IN THE ARCHDIOCESE OF SAN FRANCISCO".
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 10:17 AM By Student fromLA
Thanks Grace56
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 12:56 PM By MarkF
Mary, my answer is that the left always uses trickery, sleight of hand, obfuscation, bait and switch, and most of all, plausible deniability in presenting dissent and then after the fact making it seem like orthodoxy. That was my whole point - after being around radical dissent enough, you begin to know its ways. You're trying to make it seem like it's fine to have a "discussion" on homosexuality, and that it's a good thing that both sides are presented in this play. It's not. There is no discussion on the nature of homosexuality. Homosexual acts are always a grave matter. Period. What this play is trying to do is to cloud the waters, just as many on this site try to do. And there are a lot of us who just aren't buying it. We know what the goal of the dissenters is, and that is the acceptance of homosexuality as normal. Nothing, and I mean nothing you say will convince me that this is not the goal of the dissenting wing of the Church. All the talk about dialog, and having a conversation is a smoke screen. The Bishop knew that, but like I've said before, the dissenters are sneaky people. So, I expect to be criticized. I expect the name calling. I've had it all before and I'm not afraid. What gladdens me is that so many others are willing to take the criticism from the secular left for the sake of the truth. The truth about homosexuality is that it destroys our spiritual life. It numbs it first and then kills it outright. Kids don't need dialog on homosexuality; they need to be shown first hand what it does to people.
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 7:50 PM By JLS
One more destructive aspect of society dwelling on homosexuality is the effect on teenagers who are discovering their sexual natures. Boys normallycarry on in ways that transition them into men. One of these is to distance themselves from weakness. Same sex attracted boys typically do not do well at this. So, when you have a society that is pushing homosexuality in schools, then you will have boys who will try extra hard to prove themselves otherwise. What then does this mean? It means that they will abandon some of their restraint when socializing with girls. Hence just one more pressure application that compromises morality and feeds Planned Parenthood with fodder for its abortion mills and the pharmaceutical industry with slaves to its conception eradication technology, and the resultant funds which go to politics for the subversion of a decent civilization.
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 8:55 PM By BayAreaStudent
Um, but it doesn't do anything to people. Well, anything negative.
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Posted Friday, March 13, 2009 10:22 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
MarkF, we are often told to not speak unless we have been there, but you have been there and you speak from experience. God bless you for your witness. Mind you this does not mean I accept their subterfuge of "unless you have been there, you should keep quiet".
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Saturday, March 14, 2009 12:37 PM By JLS
It is always a blessing to find someone who has gone from darkness to the light of Christ, and especially who can articulate it. When I was first a committed Christian but not yet a Catholic, I read innumerable "conversion testimonies", and in fact experienced one myself. It is the fact of conversion, of a radical change, that is such a blessing. These things echo those of St Paul and of St Mary Magdalene ... and on a grander scale, that of Europe and of much of the world. It is what the Church does ... countless microcosms of conversion tales. It is the individual with the truth of the Kingdom of God encountering society which turns the tide of souls from blood red to pure white. There is a genesis of conversion story ready to be watered in each soul ... the hard part is to find that soul and then do the watering; some prefer the gentle shower from a garden bucket, whereas I prefer the fire hose.
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Posted Sunday, March 15, 2009 5:29 AM By Mark from PA
JLS, it is not that the schools are pushing homosexuality. It is that some are cracking down on bullying and making fun of and putting down gay students.
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Posted Sunday, March 15, 2009 8:37 PM By LOT
Grisha have you seen the photos of the 1906 earthquake and fire that destroyed SF (including USF). Since SF could be destroyed at any time all of us must go to confession (the priest/parish must follow the Pope/church teachings) and fight to stay in the state of grace. On the front of Old St Mary's Cathedral (California St, SF) just beneath the clock is an old inscription that has warned generations of SF: " Son observe the Time and Fly from evil."
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Posted Monday, March 16, 2009 6:17 AM By Grace56
Mark from PA that is just a subterfuge used by the homo-fascists to desensitize kids to homosexuality. Quite frankly there is far more antisemitism at schools than bullying of homosexuals. The homo-fascists have completely and totally misrepresented their "facts" about the amount of bullying going on in schools. Really how about some cracking down on bullying and making fun of and putting down obese students? Or Christian students?
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Posted Monday, March 16, 2009 10:49 AM By Grisha
My daughter who has taught in both public and Catholic schools for 5 years tells me that gay bashing is a significant problem, though less so, thank God, in the Catholic schools. (Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow, Catholic Schools are Great!)
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Posted Monday, March 16, 2009 3:45 PM By Mark from PA
Grace, it may not bother you that gay kids are bullied but you don't need to resort to name calling to make your point. I don't think speaking out against bullying merits one being called a fascist. I went to Catholic school and most of the people in my area are Christians so Christian students don't get bullied here.
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Posted Monday, March 16, 2009 9:11 PM By JLS
Grisha, of course gay bashing would be a significant problem in a militantly gay community. In other communities, it is not much of a problem from what I have observed.
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Posted Monday, March 16, 2009 9:15 PM By JLS
PA, I don't believe that Christian students get bullied much anywhere in this nation. In some nations today, Christians are not only being bullied, they are being murdered, raped and their villages and homes burned. A decade ago, in Africa about a half million Christians were massacred by non-Christians ... and no one came to their help to stop it. When is the last time you learned of a half million homosexuals being massacred?
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 6:26 AM By Grace56
Mark from PA seems to think that homosexuals are a "special" group that needs special attention. I guess Mark from PA doesn't care that fat people are bullied far more than gays. That Jews have more violence committed against them that gays. In fact Anti-Semitism is on the rise. Yet their is no "day of Silence" for Jews.
There is no name calling, this is stating a fact GLSEN and P-FLAG are homo-fascists. Gay students can have a club at their school but Christians students often have to go to court to be allowed the same rights. One is not even allowed to disagree with the homosexual agenda. Children are being humiliated and punished if they don't tow the gay line. Tell me who is these *real* bully these days?
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:33 PM By Grisha
Grace56: The only American Christian murdered for being a Christian in modern times I can think of was Cassie Bernall at Columbine (A martyr and saint in my book.) I can't recall anyone killed for being fat. As for LGBT people (and those thought to be LGBT) there is quite a list.
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 1:53 PM By RR
Grace56: Great post to Mark from PA @ 6:26 AM! Exactly!
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 2:45 PM By Melanie Berg
Homosexuals were a "special" group in the Nazi concentration camps, often the lowest of the groups. They were targeted for "special" medical experiments and "special" labor. And even though homosexual relations between prisoners became an "accepted" substitute in the camps, this was not tolerated among homosexual prisoners. They were forbidden to even talk to one another. They were the subject of "special" laws. A "special" history continues today. According to the most recently available FBI statistics for the year, there were 969 anti-Jewish hate crimes and 1265 hate crimes for sexual orientation. And in terms of number of known hate crime offenders, there were 320 known anti-Jewish offenders and 1454 for sexual orientation. And yes, sexual orientation hate crimes include those against heterosexuals, but only about 1% of sexual orientation hate crimes were anti-heterosexual. Of course, hate crimes do not include everyday name calling, of which homosexual persons are subject to more abuse than Jewish persons at all the schools I've taught. Even the swastika strikes against homosexual persons too.
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:16 PM By Mark from PA
Grace, Holocaust Rememberance Day is April 21st this year. This Day is commemorated every year and the Jews who died in the Holocaust are remembered. I have attended several services at our local temple in honor of those who died. My mother had 2 first cousins who were slave laborers in Germany during the war. Her uncle (my great-uncle) spent most of WWII in hiding for fear of the Germans. All of the Jewish people in his village (where my grandmother was also born) were arrested and executed. I protest hate against everyone.
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:31 PM By Mark from PA
Thank you for the information Melanie. I hope that you have educated the people here.
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 5:33 PM By Grace56
I suggest Melanie do further reading about The Homosexual Roots of the Nazi Party. It is quite the eye opener.The homosexuals who were in the concentration camps were sent there because they were effeminate. The Butch homosexuals found the more effeminate homosexuals repulsive. As many as 6,000 of the approximately 10,000 “pink triangles” died in the work camps, but few, if any, were gassed in the death camps. Some of those who died met their deaths at the hands of homosexual Kapos (“trustees”) and guards of the SS.
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Posted Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:22 PM By JLS
The Old Testament records only a few events where massive numbers of people were destroyed at once by God. The homosexual region of Sodom and Gomorrah and various towns near them was one of the biggest events of this nature. Very few homosexuals desire to follow Jesus, and very few homosexual activists turn away from their sins. Homosexual sin is one of the four (count 'em, four) sins which cry out to Heaven for vengence ... why?
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Posted Wednesday, March 18, 2009 2:42 PM By Garmin Bertink
CCC#1867 states: "The catechetical tradition also recalls that there are 'sins that cry to heaven': the blood of Abel, the sin of the Sodomites, the cry of the people oppressed in Egypt, the cry of the foreigner, the widow, and the orphan, injustice to the wage earner." Some say that's five, not four, but that's neither here nor there. The "sin of the Sodomites" is not told about a committed homosexual couple but about a hostile mob "all the townsmen of Sodom, both young and old -- all the people to the last man" (perhaps 100% heterosexual) wanting to molest an alien "moving in closer to break down the door". As Jude 1 states, Sodom "indulged in sexual promiscuity/whoredom and went after alien flesh." It's not surprising that the "sin of Sodomites" cries out for vengeance because molesting or oppressing an alien is one of the sins that cries out for vengeance, as Exodus 22:20-23 states: "You shall not molest or oppress an alien... If ever you wrong them and they cry out to me, I will surely hear their cry. My wrath will flare up, and I will kill you with the sword." Make no mistake. Oppressing "aliens" by hanging a misinterpretation of the "sin of Sodomites" around their necks is a sin that cries to heaven for vengeance.
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Posted Thursday, March 19, 2009 9:14 PM By Mark from PA
The post below says that comments cannot contain offensive or libelous language. So why are people allowed to call others homos (which may or may not be offensive depending on intent) and homo-fascists (which is definitely offensive)? Perhaps you need a disclaimer for people coming onto this site not to enter if they may be offended.
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Posted Friday, March 20, 2009 9:28 AM By Eileen
Mark from PA, Is there a beam in your eye? For the sake of fairness Mark...The Post Title at the top of the page says California **Catholic** Daily. There are many people who are allowed to post comments on this site who call themselves Catholic but in actuality they deny or ignore the Teachings of the Catholic Church.. Some of these posters even use the offensive word "hater" towards faithful Catholics who do accept or defend the Magisterial Teachings of the Catholic Church. California Catholic Daily does not omit their inaccurate or offensive language. There is no warning or disclaimer that prepares visitors entering this site that says ***CAUTION BE PREPARED***..."Some Of The People Who Post Comments Below Call Themselves Catholic But They Do Not Accept The Teachings Of The Catholic Church. Please Be On Guard..You Will Be Offended. Please Continue To Pray For Their Complete Conversion."
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Posted Friday, March 20, 2009 1:54 PM By Anne T.
Garmin Bertink, no post I have read is accusing aliens of being Sodomites, unless the person is a practicing homosexual. In fact, one of the men at a Catholic church who was passing out Pro Proposition 8 signs and got beat up by Anti-Proposition 8 people was an immigrant from Mexico who came over here with a visa. Those of us who were for Proposition 8 prayed for and defended him. Would you have defended that man, Garmin Bertink? I doubt it. The Pocket Catholic Dictionary by Fr. John Hardon, who is being considered for sainthood by the way, (and every other approved Catholic dictionary, catechism and prayerbook says basically the same) states this about marriage: "The state of marriage implies four chief conditions 1. there must be a union of opposite sexes, it is therefore opposed to all forms of unnatural, homosexual behavior; 2. it is a permanent union until the death of either spouse; 3. it is an exclusive union, so that extramarital acts are a violation of justice; and 4. its permanence and exclusiveness are guaranteed by contract; mere living together, without mutually binding themselves to do so, is concubinage and not marriage". So that is what the Church teaches, has always taught and will always teach about marriage. Were there heterosexuals sinning in Sodom and Gormorrah? I am sure there were, but I am also sure that they were defending some of the behavior of the homosexuals. Thus Sodom was destroyed because of their refusal to repent of their sins. Ninevah and other wicked cities were not destroyed because they repented in sackcloth and ashes and changed their ways. Some had enough righteous people in them to turn away God's wrath. Each Catholic needs to ask himself, "Am I one of the righteous, or am I one of the ones bringing down the wrath of the Almighty?
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Posted Friday, March 20, 2009 2:23 PM By Mark from PA
You know what Eileen, on this site I have been referred to as pervert, sodomite, heretic, etc. I was even called a nebulous alien. And yes I have been offended. This is probably because no one has EVER called me these names in person. The people that I come in contact with don't talk like that. Since I use respectful language when I speak with others this is what I am used to. I am not used to such language and yes I do consider it to be hateful. Everyone that I know considers me to be a faithful Catholic.
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Posted Friday, March 20, 2009 4:20 PM By Grace56
Mark from PA seems to think that his right not to be offended is a Constitutional amendment.
When people (in this case the well funded homosexual lobby) want to force other to think like they do, brainwash little children (and parents have no right to say no) and stifle free speech, they are in fact fascists.
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Posted Friday, March 20, 2009 7:38 PM By JLS
PA, this site seems to be geared towards the truth, and not towards some feel good goal.
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Posted Friday, March 20, 2009 11:07 PM By Almond Milk
Student fromLA tell us more about that story your writing. Sounds like what we are seeing in California.
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Posted Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:49 AM By Mark from PA
I was really not offended by being called a nebulous alien. My friend Mark, I thought that was somewhat funny and actually shared it with a few friends. Just a little haughtiness to add spice to my day. Grace, I am not talking about a Constitutional amendment here. I am talking about the message below that says comments cannot contain offensive or libelous language.
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Posted Saturday, March 21, 2009 9:01 AM By Fr. M.P.
Mark from PA, I am greatly offended that you call yourself a practicing Catholic and yet promote the heresies of active homosexual behavior as good and natural. What will you do about that offense, not only to me, but to God?
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Posted Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:31 AM By Robert
Good Jesuit - Bad Jesuit
While on the subject of the Jesuits, this is a letter I wrote that was published this week in CSF. While not strictly on the subject of the play, it does speak to the general subject of the Jesuit order, and its relation many issues in play today.
This letter was written in response to the talk given recently at USF by Judge John Noonan, who provides the theological underpinning for the alternative Magisterium the Jesuits seem to be promoting. If you have ever had a conversation with a “bad” Jesuit about the Magisterium, you know what I mean.
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I can't think of a better venue than USF for Judge John Noonan's talk on his 2005 book, “A Church That Can and Cannot Change” (CSF 2/27/09). This is because the thesis of his book can be heard out of the mouths of so many Jesuits these days.
The perspective for my letter has been taken from a scholarly review of Noonan's book by theologian Avery Cardinal Dulles, S.J. (a good Jesuit - God rest his soul), published in First Things Magazine (October 2005). In this article, he states that the thesis of Noonan's book seems to be that “doctrinal change is in many cases an about-face, repudiating the erroneous past teaching of the Magisterium itself”. This thesis Noonan applies to four examples; that of slavery, usury, religious freedom and divorce.
The Cardinal admits that Noonan is quite knowledgeable about these four areas, and is a skilled historian, lawyer “and to some degree a theologian”. But he also warns us that, “Noonan manipulates the evidence to make it seem to favor his own preconceived conclusions. For some reason he is intent on finding discontinuity…”
I think the Cardinal's coyness about Noonan's intentions regarding “discontinuity” is really a charitable way of avoiding having to state the obvious. “Bad” Jesuits need a rationale for changing Church Doctrine they don't like, (primarily the long held Doctrines reiterated in Humane Vitae) and Noonan tries to provide it.
This penchant for change on the part of such Jesuits (and other priests with a similar Jesuit mentality), coupled with their abuse and distortion of the Church's “conscience
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Posted Saturday, March 21, 2009 10:45 AM By Robert
This is a continuation of the truncated letter above, regarding Judge Noonan's talk:
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This penchant for change on the part of such Jesuits (and other priests with a similar Jesuit mentality), coupled with their abuse and distortion of the Church's “conscience clause”, has decimated the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and has caused division and scandal in ranks of the laity.
The remedy? As I have said in another letter on this subject, “It will be only through a profound catechesis, based solidly on the Catechism of the Catholic Church, directed by the Bishop and implemented in our Catholic schools, our RCIA classes and from the pulpit, that such divisions can be healed.”
Until that happens (which probably won't be anytime soon), I offer a companion, if I may, to the admonition of Our Lord Jesus, “Beware the leaven of the Jesuits”.
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Posted Sunday, March 22, 2009 2:16 PM By Mark from PA
Father M.P., I am not promoting any heresies here. I consider my orientation to be good and natural and I do not think God is offended by it. Our priest gave a very good sermon at Mass today. We are called to live our faith everyday and be a witness. I try to live my faith as an integral part of my life. I usually learn something with each sermon at Mass. In the prayers of the faithful today we prayed for the oppressed and the outcast and also prayed that we have respect for the dignity of all.
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Posted Sunday, March 22, 2009 3:41 PM By Mark from PA
Father M.P., I AM a practicing Catholic. I go to Mass every Sunday and also once or twice during the week. I consider myself to be a Eucharistic Catholic. What I am promoting is an end to bullying and making fun of students. I think all teens, including gay teens, need to be treated with respect. I also hope that you read my previous post in which I said that I do not think that teens should be sexually active, this includes gay and straight teens. Young people need to learn to love and respect themselves and also have a healthy respect for their sexuality.
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Posted Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:58 PM By Almond Milk
Fr. M.P. I feel the same way about the posts from Mark from PA. I don't think he understands the error of his ways.
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Posted Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:07 PM By Anne T.
Mark from Pa, the temptation toward homosexuality is not a gift from God any more than someone else's temptation to adultery, fornication or theft is a gift from God. That is what Fr. M.P. is trying to tell you. The temptation does not make you a bad person, but it is just that -- a temptation but not a gift. We all have temptations but they are not gifts from God, but from the devil or our own mind trying to tempt us into doing what is clearly wrong. Some people have an attraction to both sexes. Does that mean they should have sex with everyone? God forbid it. If you consider the "cross to bear" a gift, that would be another matter, but in encouraging others to give into their temptations by advocating what is called same-sex marriage you are wrong, and it is not according to Catholic teaching. It is a serious sin most definitely because you are encouraging others to sin seriously.
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Posted Monday, March 23, 2009 5:16 AM By Fr. M.P.
Mark from PA, anyone who reads your postings here, especially for many many months as I have, knows that you promote homosexual behavior as good and natural in violation of God's infallible Word in the Bible and the teachings of His Church. You claim that you only offer respect. Don't lie to our face, for you offend me even more. If you really have converted back to the Truth, then state publicly here that homosexual behavior is *always* wrong, that it is sinful, that it is not natural or good, and stop making excuses for it by defending it here. What will you do, Mark from PA?
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Posted Monday, March 23, 2009 9:36 AM By Mea Culpa
Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2358 "The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered [not good and natural], constitutes for most of them a trial." .... The teaching of the Church is clear that homosexuality is an objectively disordered condition, and that homosexual acts are acts of "grave depravity." It is the work of Satan that someone would try to pass themselves off as a faithful Catholic while preaching that homosexuality is good, natural, and acceptable before God. It is none of those things.
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Posted Monday, March 23, 2009 10:15 AM By New Observer
Mark from PA, I would like to thank you for your ongoing and tolerance for all people in this world. You continue to demonstrate a true Christian and Catholic spirit, one which the rest of us can only hope to aspire to. The world definitely needs more people like you. I do not see anywhere in your posts any "violations of God's word." Your ability to continue to take the high road, in light of unwarranted criticism, is very commendable.
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Posted Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:28 PM By Mark from PA
Thank you New Observer. I am glad that you understand what I am getting at here. Peace be with you.
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Posted Friday, April 03, 2009 3:44 PM By Talithia Kumi
Mark PA I am also waiting to hear; " Will you state publicly here that homosexual behaviour is 'always' wrong..."? I am a very nice person too. I am tolerant of diversity too. I stand up for the outcast and marginalized too. I am sensitive by nature as are you. I am very much like you. but sin is sin. I truly wonder how you can continue to believe as you say you do AND behave as you say you do. They do not go together.
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