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Published: November 4, 2008
Kmiec vs. Chaput
Law professor spars with archbishop over “proportionate reasons”
Denver, Nov. 3, 2008 / (CNA) -- Doug Kmiec, a law professor at Pepperdine University and supporter of Sen. Barack Obama, has criticized Denver Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, claiming the archbishop’s comments on today’s election do not allow “proportionate reasons” to be considered in voting for a presidential candidate.
Kmiec, a former Reagan administration official and onetime dean of the law school at the Catholic University of America, also charged that the outspoken prelate diverges from the counsel provided by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger concerning Catholics’ voting responsibilities.
Archbishop Chaput has called Obama the "most committed" pro-abortion candidate from a major party in 35 years, and said Catholics who support Obama are doing a disservice to the Church. "To suggest -- as some Catholics do -- that Senator Obama is this year's 'real' pro-life candidate requires a peculiar kind of self-hypnosis, or moral confusion, or worse," the archbishop told a Catholic women’s group in mid-October.
In an essay published by the National Catholic Reporter, Kmiec said the disagreement between himself and Archbishop Chaput is not over the “essence of Church instruction,” that is, “the promotion of human life.” Rather, their disagreement is over “the preferred means of implementing it.”
In Kmiec’s view, the archbishop argues for “the necessity of promoting life through law,” which primarily means working to reverse Roe v. Wade. He also claims Archbishop Chaput “discounts reducing the incidence of abortion by cultural (economic and social) means.”
According to Kmiec, this legal course has an “unsuccessful history,” saying the court has refused to overturn Roe v. Wade five times. The legal route also features “genuine uncertainty” because the prospects of judicial vacancies are speculative and as many as three more Supreme Court votes may be required to overturn the decision which imposed permissive abortion laws nationwide.
“The deliberations of conscience lead me to conclude that an alternative way to promote life must exist,” Kmiec remarked.
He argued this alternate route was found in Sen. Obama’s policies, such as adequate prenatal and postnatal care, funded maternity leave, and a “caring” adoption procedure. “This kind of assistance especially into the lives of poor women has been shown to have significant impact in the reduction of abortion,” he noted, saying this reasoning means a Catholic can vote for Obama with a “clear conscience.”
“The Catholic difficulty stems not from having to avoid casting a ballot with the intent of not promoting or encouraging abortion -- for, honestly now, who does that? -- but instead having one's vote proclaimed cooperation with sin or evil without what the Church calls ‘proportionate’ reasons,” Kmiec argued.
He wrote that neither major party candidate is a “perfect Catholic candidate” on abortion, with “some remote cooperation with sin” being necessary regardless of the candidate. Obama supports the status quo on abortion while his Republican opponent Sen. John McCain’s position, if implemented, “leaves the states effectively pro-choice.”
Kmiec continued his argument by quoting from then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s counsel on voting. In a 2004 letter to Archbishop of Washington Cardinal Theodore McCarrick, the future Pope Benedict XVI wrote: “When a Catholic does not share a candidate's stand in favor of abortion... but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.”
In Kmiec’s view, this means that Catholics “are not morally precluded from picking an imperfect candidate.” He claimed the statement also shows “some divergence” between Archbishop Chaput and Cardinal Ratzinger. Kmiec argued that Cardinal Ratzinger allows individual conscience to decide what is a “proportionate reason” to vote for an imperfect candidate, but claims Archbishop Chaput thinks “Catholics in the 2008 presidential race do not have both major candidates from which to choose -- they have the one offered up by the Republicans.”
Archbishop Chaput’s “obvious and justifiable” concern that there is no proportionate reason that outweighs the 1.2 million abortions each year, Kmiec claimed, ignores that such injustices are already built into the “ethical calculus” of Cardinal Ratzinger. Otherwise, in Kmiec’s view, a repetitious argument results: “Q. When can I vote given millions of abortions? A. When there are not millions of abortions.”
The “other reasons” to vote for a pro-abortion rights candidate must be compared, Kmiec argued, claiming Archbishop Chaput balanced not competing candidate policies as they relate to abortion, but rather weighed abortion against each candidate’s policy.
Obama’s cultural and economic assistance to Americans, he continued, would be of more help. “Obama's policy saves at least some children as against saving none,” he wrote, arguing Obama is the “better alternative in terms of overall Catholic social teaching.” Kmiec also criticized critics of Obama who cite the senator’s support for the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) as a reason to vote against him.
“At the Democratic convention, leading members of the House and Senate publicly expressed the view that FOCA is so deeply flawed -- some scholars believing it unconstitutional and most lawmakers finding it unacceptable as a matter of policy -- that it will never reach the president's desk. This is a fact that has some plausibility given its history, but of course, one that may change with the composition of the new Congress. This is more fairly an issue regarding the election of others, and not primarily Obama or McCain.”
Sources at the Archdiocese of Denver told CNA that Archbishop Chaput has no plans to respond to Kmiec’s essay. However, two prominent Catholic commentators told CNA their view of Kmiec’s pro-Obama efforts.
“Throughout this campaign, I fear that Doug Kmiec has wandered ever farther through Lewis Carroll's looking glass, into a world in which the White Queen teaches herself 'impossible things before breakfast' -- impossible things, like the manifest absurdity that Barack Obama, NARAL's poster child, is, in fact, the real pro-life candidate,” said George Weigel. “If and when a President Obama and a Democratic Congress (led by a self-professed 'ardent Catholic') begin dismantling every legal achievement of the pro-life movement over the past three decades, it will be interesting indeed to see what Professor Kmiec has to say. As for Archbishop Chaput, he is a model bishop, and the Church in America should pray for two hundred more bishops with his insight and his courage,” Weigel continued.
Austin Ruse, president of the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute, also weighed in: “Doug Kmiec is not just arguing with Archbishop Chaput but with at least 100 other bishops who have spoken out strongly against a Kmiec-like position. We have never seen so many bishops willing to risk an IRS audit to speak out against the idea that other issues are proportionate to abortion or the absurd notion that Obama is anti-abortion. The first thing Obama will do is sign the Freedom of Choice Act, which will overturn every tiny but meaningful restriction on abortion that has ever passed the Congress and the States. This includes things like waiting periods for adolescents and laws against taking a minor across state lines for an abortion. Kmiec's position that Obama is anti-abortion is tragically wrong on its face.
“In the not too distant future, Kmiec will be looked upon as a tragic figure and Chaput as a brave hero,” Ruse told CNA.
Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:12 AM By Dan
Kmiec has lost his mind and his soul for what? To curry favor with the probable winner? It's not worth it, Doug. How far you have fallen!
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 5:06 AM By Grisha
While I don't see an Obama comitment to reducing abortions, Kemic is probebly right that his social policies would have some positive side effect. The prospect that a McCain victory would set in motion a process where he would be able to appoint a sufficeint number of Justices who would be on the bench at the same time and vote for overturning when a Roe case came before them is iffy at best. Keep in mind that pro-life issues are not a priority of his. Even if Roe were reversed it would become a state matter. Our rersources are far better used convincing women to make the right choice and providing support to them in doing so.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:09 AM By CJJ
Doug Kmiec's publicity and pr stunts over the last few months have identified him to be a naked craven political hack. But now he has veered into even deeper waters. Pray for him. He has lost his tethers.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:10 AM By Margie
How often we allow ourselves to be deceived by the Father of Lies! Kmiec has obviously never opened up John Paul II's Theology of the Body.
I grow tired of rhetoric by proabortion politicians like Obama who want to make abortion "rare" as they vote to deny medical treatment for children born alive after botched abortions. There is simply no basis and no credibility for Obama doing anything but what he has always done: make sure that there is more and more abortion with taxpayer's footing the bill. Make sure more proabortion judges are placed on the Supreme Court with his litmus test. Bow down at the feminist altar of prochoice America and ensure that abortion is everywhere available without condition.
If that is what Kmiec would like to see, I suggest he pull the lever for Obama and prepare his soul to meet a very grateful Father of Lies in the afterlife.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:12 AM By JLS
Kmiec has demonstrated himself to be spiritually depraved. There is literally no sense in Kmiec's position. Therefore, his motivation is likely something other than reason. What else is there? Because so much of today's public mind is driven by the sex drive, it is probably a sexual attraction to the Obama campaign that attracts such people as Kmiec. After all, the same campaign attracts deviants against marriage, against babies, against the Church, against the great fruit of the Church which has been western civilization, and against God and His efforts to raise up a holy people.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:35 AM By Ken M.
Doug Kmiec's support of Obama reflects long-term self interest in access to the White House and a hoped for position on the
Supreme Court.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:49 AM By The original Frank
Given the potential for an electoral landslide and hence "mandate" for change, it becomes even more important for Catholics to support steady and well-reasoned ways our country can reduce the number of abortions. In the coming political landscape, I have zero confidence that the you-will-burn-in-hell approach will save children. Obama's style is still very much that of a professor --- the sort of character who will much more likely be influenced by reasoned and proportionate argument than threats from Above.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:53 AM By The original Frank
Quote from Kmied's piece: If there was one disturbing injustice of the campaign, it was that a few members of the hierarchy of the Catholic Church in America indulged low partisanship, and worse, allowed Republican partisans to purvey - sometimes on church property -- the untenable idea that voting for Senator Obama was contrary to the faith, a cooperation with evil, or an invitation to eternal damnation. Worst of all, a few prelates asserted this false preemption of individual conscience themselves. Thankfully, the conference of U.S. bishops had in place a thoughtful exposition of the responsible considerations to be undertaken by a Catholic in preparation to vote - the most prominent of which was the reminder that we are not to be "single-issue" voters, even as we may find an intrinsic evil to be disqualifying if both the candidate and our intent is to advance that evil and we lack proportionate justification for accepting that evil in a remote way. Notwithstanding the distortions of the less than Grand Old Party that has grown lazy winning on the incitement of fear, neither candidate is an advocate of evil, and the duty of a Catholic voter is a straightforward matter of satisfying the casting of a ballot with right intention. With respect to Senator Obama in particular, as indicated in my book "Can a Catholic Support Him?" The answer is enthusiastically "yes, we can!"
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:26 AM By Anita
Does Kmiec plan to use this argument on judgment day? If this weren't so tragic it would be laughable. How any Catholic with an informed conscience could vote for Obama is unbelievable. I repeat again, this is the fruit of Vatican 2 and the non-Catholic Bishops. The faith is not being taught correctly or this would not be happening. Pre-V2 the Church was the moral authority for the world, as it should be. Sadly, that is not true anymore. We are just considered 'another' religion.....not the one true faith.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:52 AM By Steven Ertelt
Excellent article... LifeNews.com salutes you.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:05 AM By Ski Ven
***An Election Prayer to Mary***O Most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Mercy, at this most critical time, we entrust the United States of America to your loving care. Most Holy Mother, we beg you to reclaim this land for the glory of your Son. Overwhelmed with the burden of the sins of our nation, we cry to you from the depths of our hearts and seek refuge in your motherly protection. Look down with mercy upon us and touch the hearts of our people. Open our minds to the great worth of human life and to the responsibilities that accompany human freedom. Free us from the falsehoods that lead to the evil of abortion and threaten the sanctity of family life. Grant our country the wisdom to proclaim that God's law is the foundation on which this nation was founded, and that He alone is the True Source of our cherished rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. O Merciful Mother, give us the courage to reject the culture of death and the strength to build a new Culture of Life. Trusting in your most powerful intercession, we pray... Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help or sought they intercession was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence, we fly unto thee, O Virgin of virgins, our Mother. To thee do we come, before thee we stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not our petitions, but in they mercy hear and answer us. Amen.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:10 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Kmiec is another benighted individual leading Catholics and others astray. There will be many more.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:25 AM By Papamac
The law professor is a HERETIC. McCain-Palin are pro-life, hussien-Biden are pro-choice, hussien by far the worse and most dangerous pro-choice candidate that evil has ever fostered on America. ABORTION IS INTRINICALLY EVIL, IT IS MURDER, IN THE GOOD OLD USA IT IS GENOCIDE, NOTHING THAT ANYONE PROMISES YOU CAN TRUMP ABORTION. KMIEC is just another EVIL HERETIC that satan uses to decieve people who do not know their CATHOLIC TEACHING, or who unfortunately are looking for a way to justify their own minds that it is o.k. to vote for EVIL. VOTING FOR OBAMA-BIDEN IS THE GRAVEST OF MORTAL SINS, YOU VOTE FOR GENOCIDE OF GOD'S MOST INNONCENT. MAY GOD BLESS
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 9:40 AM By MAJRDAD
It would seem that Mr. Kmiec is too smart by half. Pray for him.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:12 AM By Mary Ann, SingingMum
Kmiec's logic in the first few paragraphs demonstrates either/or thinking. Either we win the battle for the unborn through the political process in a certain amount of time, OR we find alternate ways to promote life. This is fundamentally flawed. The authentic Catholic way to advance a culture of life and promote the common good has people working on every front where injustice is, in cooperation with various gifts and in response to God's abundant grace. The victory is God's and we must press on out of love for Him and love of neighbor, without needing to see all the fruits of our labor. I would suggest the tragedy of Kmiec's position is that of despair.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:17 AM By Polneon
Well balanced article. Good job.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:23 AM By Grisha
Mary Ann, SingingMum: I agree with you about the need to work on every front. However, I think the case can be made that we have neglected the work of providing women with the resources to overcome fear and make the right choice. I recently spoke to a Bishop who had never heard of the Pregnant Woman's Support Act. I don't think Kemiec is in dispair, but rather, he sees clearly that a strategy of concentrating the vast bulk of our efforts on trying to reverse Roe v. Wade just hasn't been successful.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:54 AM By James
If anyone feels the call to do something substantial about this Kmiec character, attend a lecture he is giving on Tuesday night, Nov. 11 at 7:15 and question him. St. John's Seminary of all places (where future priests are being trained) invited him to give the lecture, presumably to "enlighten" us uninformed Catholics.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 10:58 AM By John F. Maguire
Apropos of the 2004 presidential election pitting the Democratic Party candidate John Kerry against the Republican Party candidate George W. Bush: When Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger wrote his famous letter to Cardinal McCarrick, he knew very well not simply that both candidates were "imperfect candidates" (to quote Douglas Kmiec) but that both candidates were abortocrats. Senator Kerry--plainly--was an abortocrat, which is why, for example, Marc Balestrieri filed a canonical action against Kerry in Rome. George W. Bush was also an abortocrat, that is, inasfar as he refused to recognize the right to life of pre-born infants as "persons" under Constitutional and common law but instead contented himself with professing his hope that _Roe v. Wade_ be overturned. (Bush's Supreme Court nominees, however, swore under oath that they would uphold _Roe_ as "superprecedent" and they have kept their oath.) It is in this, and just this circumstance, that Cardinal Ratzinger advised Catholics to motivate their vote in terms of proportionate reasoning, to wit, as to who--between two abortocrats--might be the better candidate. *Pace* Archbishop Chaput, Cardinal Ratzinger already knew (approximately) how many millions of abortions had taken place since _Roe v. Wade_. As Professor Kmiec has correctly pointed out, this execrable slaughter was, in 2004, already built into the "ethical calculus" to vote--again, as between two abortocratic candidates--for the one candidate for whom "proportionate reasons" for such a vote can nonetheless be adduced. On this point, Douglas Kmiec, I submit, has read Cardinal Ratzinger correctly; still, because Kmiec uses the phrase "imperfect candidates" rather that "abortocratic candidates," he needlessly opens himself up to ripostes to the effect that he blinks away the fact that Senator Obama remains an abortocrat. Come an Obama victory, Doug Kmiec will not be the only one whose work will be cut out for him.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:23 AM By Fr. M.P.
No surprise that Kmiec would be quoted in the heresy printing National Catholic Reporter. So Kmiec thinks that removing all restrictions on abortions, including parental notification, would be good since "policies, such as adequate prenatal and postnatal care, funded maternity leave, and a 'caring' adoption procedure" would be best. Well then, let's use this logic for everything. Let's get rid of all laws against murder and theft and running red lights. Be honest, laws against those crimes have an "unsuccessful history" in stopping them, and we are just wasting time on them since people still commit murder, still steal, and still run red lights, especially when they are late. Then we can establish programs to show people how caringly not to murder, and care for them so they won't steal, and teaching caringly how to drive so they will never choose to go through red lights, but especially teach them time management so they won't be running late to begin with. *** Of course the real answer is that BOTH are needed - the law to keep most people in line, and the assistance programs for those who fail in a big way to live properly. Sinners need law, perfect people do not. We are all sinners, right?
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:02 PM By pete salveini
Kmiec is using reason alright, but NOT reason SPIRITUALLY aware. This seems to be for two reasons: 1)defeatism on the legal side; 2) failure of DEEP INTUITION OF FAITH GUIDING reason as to the PROPHETIC AWARENESS of a collossal world wide conglict between Good and evil for the soul of mankind,BEING PLAYED OUT IN AMERICA OVER THE LIFE ISSUE AND THE MARRIAGE ISSUE. He is FOOLED by the naive acceptance of Obama's vaguely stated intentions; But Obama has been cautious and careful to cover his understanding of what change is.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:03 PM By R. J. Keyes
The question of the correct interpretation of Cardinal Ratzinger's letter is what divides Professor Kmiec from
Archbishop Chaput. I would venture that, quite apart form how one votes, one can readily see that Douglas Kmiec's reading of Cardinal Ratzinger's letter is correct. Cardinal Ratzinger was not recommending proportionate reasoning in a context in which no proportionate reasoning could be exercised in the first place. Within the terms of Cardinal Ratzinger's letter, the job of the voter is to compare the candidates' divergent positions on abortion one position against the other, bearing in mind that neither position meets the requirement of adequacy. This inadequacy defined the voting situation in the Bush vs. Kerry election, and it defines the voting situation today.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 12:11 PM By Anne T.
As far as I am concerned, Obama's health plan opens the door to abortion Chinese Communist syle--forced abortion, euthanasia, etc. With all his degrees, Kmiec cannot see his nose in front of his face. Does he really believe that Obama, who could not bring himself to save the life of children born alive from abortion, is going to change to help these children? Every senator but Obama voted for the final Born Alive Act. I have no confidence in the man whatsoever. He said he was for marriage between a man and a woman, now he is against Proposition 8, the legistation for traditional marriage in California. He is for embronic stem-cell research vs cordblood or adult stem-cell research. He is for FOCA , the Freedom of Choice Act. The kindess thing I can say about Kmeic is that "he's lost his marbles'".
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:01 PM By Harry
John, what is the difference between an abortocrat and an abortion supporter? And when did bush refuse to recognize the life of pre-born infants as "persons"? Also when did Roberts and Alito swear they would uphold Roe as "superprecedent"? How can they be said to have kept their oath (if they took it) since no case involving Roe's constitutionality has come before them yet? There was no proportionate reasoning needed in the 2004 election, and none in this election, since in each case, the choice is very clear - one candidate is pro life, the other is pro-death.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:01 PM By Grisha
Anne T.: You may disgree as to the effectiveness of Obama's health plan. It's a tremendously complicated subject as Hillary found out. However, making more and better health care availible to women who are considering abortion is a good thing and likely works to encourage them to make the right choice.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:17 PM By The original Frank
To say Obama "could not bring himself to save the life of children born alive from abortion"
overstates the truth, which is to say it isn't *quite* true.
politifact.com collects political claims
and checks them for accuracy.
Half-truths, doubly amplified, aren't likely to change any hearts.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:48 PM By Lupe
An "ethical calculus" regards abortion as one variable (political issue) among many and implies a utilitarian view of the world. Catholics, pew-sitting Catholics, believe that abortion is an intrinsic evil. Abortion is never justified. It is simply the murder of an innocent and defenseless human being. Cardinal Ratzinger surely knew of the millions of abortions occurring in the U.S. when he visited years ago. Even then he would have supported a candidate who says that life begins at conception over a candidate who believes it isn't in his pay scale to know, a candidate who has mistakenly voted for infanticide. Remember the other presidential candidate who played to the Catholic vote by saying abortion should be safe, legal and rare? Mr. Kimec supports a pro-abortion candidate based on spurious ethical calculations dependent on intentions and circumstances. This is a mistake that will lead to further threats against the handicapped and the elderly. God bless Archbishop Chaput for standing for the poor and unborn.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 1:55 PM By Douglas
Mr. Kmiec has lost the gift of reason. I do not recall which apparition; however I have heard it said from many catholics that Blessed Mother forecasted those in the the upper-class in the end-times would lose their ability to reason, where they would argue right was wrong and wrong was right. Why is one sick-catholic like this allowed to be law professor at Pepperdine or the Catholic University of America? Parents need to fear professors like Mr. Kmiec whom think their college students are getting a conservative, good, and religious education. THINK AGAIN! Mr. Kmiec couldn't find his way out of a California if he tried. We catholics and other denominations do need to vote for Mr. McCain as perhaps 2 or 3 liberal Supreme Court justices are waiting to announce their retirement effective next year pending if Mr. Obama wins the election. Do you believe Mr. Obama will nominate conservative pro-life judges to replace those liberal judges aging and seeking retirement? Hardly! He and the democratic majority in congress will ramrod the most radical liberal nominees they can find and approve. Since justices positions are for a life-time, catholics and christians lives would be influenced for years, and millions of more babies will be murdered in abortion clinics. I have even heard over national Fox TV liberals enthusiastically discussing changes in our own Constitution of the U.S. Pray for God's help and mercy to defeat the enemy of liberalism which Pope St. Pius the Xth so greatly fought against. He is the only Pope elevated to sainthood in 500 years! That ought to tell us how close he stood with God!
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:13 PM By John F. Maguire
Professor Kmiec's claim that Senator McCain's position on abortion, if implemented, "leaves the states effectively pro-choice" is true. Like McCain's erstwhile commander-in-chief Richard Nixon, the Senator from Arizona does not believe that pre-born infants are "persons" under the Constitution; again, like President Nixon, McCain does not believe that pre-born infants are persons under the common law. As a consequence, although McCain would return the matter of abortion to the states, he would do so with no effective acknowledgement of pre-born infants as always already vested with the common law and Constitutional rights of persons. This oversight is not only a grave error on Senator McCain's part but it is precisely the error that some segments of the pro-life movement have shown themselves to be surprisingly slow to grasp. As a consequence, this segment of the pro-live movement has let itself get co-opted by the Republican Party--with little to show for it. But Holy Church, because she is essentially supra-partisan, cannot let the same thing happen to her. Indeed, the supra-partisan character of the Church is another reason why the counsel of Cardinal Ratzinger's letter to Cardinal McCarrick is essentially correct.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 2:32 PM By Elizabeth
WHAT ARROGANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!
This Mr. Kmiec needs to go to Confession and ask God for forgiveness and then ask Archbishop Chaput's forgiveness.....
He is one of our AWESOME shepherds!!!!!!
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:37 PM By CJJ
Here's more of Kmiec's outlook: *** Kmiec, Douglas W., Navigating End-of-Life Decisions - The Ethical Dilemma of Nutrition and Hydration, nationally syndicated essay, Sept. 2007.*** Only in a contorted mind do nutrition and hyrdation become "ethical dilemmas."
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 4:48 PM By JLS
The pro-abortion snakes won the Roe v Wade, and are likely to win this election. Had it not been for One Hundred bishops to come forth and say Obama voters have a date with Hell, then all we'd hear after election day is the "Catholics for Abortionist Obama" explaining how the Magisterium supports Obama. We've got several on this thread already tuning up their Nero fiddles.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 6:54 PM By The original Frank
I find it ironic to reat about "arrogance" along with "he needs to" and so on. Please, folks: Look carefully at what we write and consider where the "arrogance" lies. Name-calling and examining Other People's Conscience won't save any lives.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:06 PM By Anne T.
Grisha, there are many ways to help women with health care. Years ago a minority, Filippino American, doctor, told me he was against Hilary Clinton's healthcare bill because there was a clause in it where a doctor could not even help his patients for free if he/she wanted to do so. Many doctors in the past have done just that. One of my sisters-in-law was given a free delivery of one of her children. She has eight. I don't trust this man two feet with health care. Quite frankly I think he did an absolutely evil thing in denying care to those who survived an abortion. He voted against the Born Alive Act four times. I repeat four times and lied about it in the debates. Even Hilary Clinton voted for it the last time. The man has the blood of the innocent on his hands. There is no getting around that.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 7:45 PM By Pax Christi
I deeply fear for the direction of this nation when the likes of Kmiec are too blind to see the wolves in sheep's clothing. It shows once again how the wisdom of a child could trump even the intelligence of a law professor who resorts to pragmatic weaseling to avoid "the difficult question of abortion." Imagine if we had milquetoasts like him leading the nation instead of an Eisenhower during WWII. He'd probably rather appease the Nazis to limit the harm done to the Jews rather than defeat the hell out of them to liberate them. Fr. M.P. hit the nail on the head in that Catholics must storm the gates of abortion both through legal means and policies to aid women who otherwise would consider killing their own flesh and blood. Didn't the Vatican say essentially the same thing the other day? If so, Kmiec fails on one of those two counts with his defeatist attitude on the Roe v. Wade question. Abortion, as we all know, would be moot if Catholics would get behind the party that is more amenable to pro-life and pro-family policies and force the Democrats to get their priorities straight if they want to be seriously regarded as a party that cares for the poor and weak members of society. For now it can't even stick up for our most vulnerable brothers and sisters, the unborn and elderly. Shame on them!
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 8:17 PM By JLS
Well, now that the electoral landslide is apparent, the first change will be in title. No more misters, brothers, fathers, monsignors, bishops, or popes ... it's now "comrade" for everyone.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:47 PM By Dave N.
I think part of the bishops' problem on this issue is that they present their arguments very poorly and thus make them selves susceptible to people like Kmiec. Women have been having abortions for thousands of years; abortion is not a political problem and does not have a political solution. Abortion is, at its heart, a spiritual problem. And hearing that 100 American bishops agree on something doesn't really help much, in fact, giving their poor track record in other areas, it only makes people suspicious.
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Posted Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:49 PM By John F. Maguire
Even in this thread, there appear to be commentators who think that Archbishop Charles Chaput is exercising his apostolic authority as bishop in the course of proferring his comments on Professor Douglas Kmiec's position on voting ethics. My purpose in this post is to prove the contrary. In an address delivered on October 18, 2008, Archbishop Chaput prefaced his comments on Doug Kmiec's position on voting ethics with the following caveat: "I plan to speak candidly, but I can only do that if you remember that I'm here as an author and private citizen." [Archbishop Chaput is referring to his authorship of _Render Unto Caesar_, which addresses many of the same salient issues that Douglas Kmiec's more recent work _Can a Catholic Support Him? Asking the Big Question about Barack Obama_ addresses.] "I'm not speaking for the Holy See," the Archbishop continues, "or the American bishops, or any other bishop, or even officially for the Archdiocese of Denver. So the things I say are my personal views, nothing more. I think they are pretty solidly grounded in Catholic teaching and the heart of the Church, but it's your task as Catholics and citizens to listen, evaluate and then act as you judge best." In this light, Austin Ruse (qtd. in the CCD article above) is mistaken in his assumption that it is in his capacity as bishop that Archbishop Chaput is arguing with Professor Kmiec, or Kmiec "arguing with" him. In his talk, Archbishop Chaput expressly disavowed any such notion.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:53 AM By Mark from PA
Oh come on JLS, get a grip here. Obama is not a communist or a socialist or a Muslim. He is just an African American Christian.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:00 AM By Comrade JLS
Comrade Pax Christi, the GOP is not the party of life. Don't you comrades ever study up or think about some of the facts I've pointed out? Both parties are funded by the same corporate bosses, who insist on liberal and socialist followers. The GOP has done nothing less than the Dems to install abortion in our nation. There are a few restraints which will now go out the window. Maybe the Catholic comrades will now begin to wake up ... but it might be too late: Just in, mice have now been clones from others frozen for sixteen years ... this means we might get another Obama in about 35 years 9 months, if they start tomorrow with this new process.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 8:02 AM By John Hinshaw
When Dougie Kmiec, a lawyer, tells us the law cannot fix abortion he is merely joining all the other abortion enablers. A doctor says the field of medicine can do nothing to stop abortion, a congressman says legislation can do nothing to stop abortion, a pharmacist says pharmacy cannot stop abortion, a Catholic layman says he can do nothing to stop abortion, a director of Catholic Charities says she can do nothing to stop abortion, etc. My professional experience is in the human services field, the area Mr. Kmiec believes can stop abortion and believes Mr. Obama will commit to using to stop abortion. This field is restricted from stopping abortion by, guess who - THE LAW. The one area Mr. Kmiec clearly knows nothing about is, surprise, the one area the rest of us are to focus on to stop abortion. It's amazing how another man's resume', in this case it's Ronald Reagan"s, can further a man's influence.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:51 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Douglas Hinshaw: Former dean of the Catholic University School of Law and presently professor of law at Pepperdine University School of Law, Douglas Kmiec can hardly to taken to have despaired of the role of law in cognizing preborn infants as juridical persons. To the contrary, his whole critique of what he regards (I think rightly) as a wrong-headed way of overturning _Roe v. Wade_ (that is, by simply returning the matter of abortion to state legislatures to decide, thumbs up/thumbs down, on the status of prenatal infants--this without any obligation to attend to the basic common law recognition of pre-born infants as persons) is absolutely and strictly a law-based critique of commonplace (not exclusively Republican Party) thinking on abortion. It is not possible then to ironize Professor Kmiec is a law professor who has despaired of the law. *** We have been in this legal desert for 35 years going on the biblical 40. What Professor Kmiec wants us to do--and this is why he is a first-rate legal educator--is wise up, wise up to a more exact understanding of the question of abortion precisely as a legal question. At the same time, Doug Kmiec knows very well that, as a matter of daily life, the abortion question is--in its intense immediacy--a cultural question, which is to say, a matter of *cultus*, a matter of the reverent acknowledgment of all living human bodies as persons vested with the right to life.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 11:54 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to John Hinshaw: Former dean of the Catholic University School of Law and presently professor of law at Pepperdine University School of Law, Douglas Kmiec can hardly to taken to have despaired of the role of law in cognizing preborn infants as juridical persons. To the contrary, his whole critique of what he regards (I think rightly) as a wrong-headed way of overturning _Roe v. Wade_ (that is, by simply returning the matter of abortion to state legislatures to decide, thumbs up/thumbs down, on the status of prenatal infants--this without any obligation to attend to the basic common law recognition of pre-born infants as persons) is absolutely and strictly a law-based critique of commonplace (not exclusively Republican Party) thinking on abortion. It is not possible then to ironize Professor Kmiec is a law professor who has despaired of the law. *** We have been in this legal desert for 35 years going on the biblical 40. What Professor Kmiec wants us to do--and this is why he is a first-rate legal educator--is wise up, wise up to a more exact understanding of the question of abortion precisely as a legal question. At the same time, Doug Kmiec knows very well that, as a matter of daily life, the abortion question is--in its intense immediacy--a cultural question, which is to say, a matter of *cultus*, a matter of the reverent acknowledgment of all living human bodies as persons vested with the right to life.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:00 PM By John F. Maguire
Apologies, John Hinshaw, for the misidentification in my last post.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 12:46 PM By Fr. M.P.
John F. Maguire says "Professor Kmiec's claim that Senator McCain's position on abortion, if implemented, 'leaves the states effectively pro-choice' is true." Let's assume that's true for the sake of argument. Why would that be as evil as Obama's plan to remove all restrictions everywhere? Even if McCain's position is only that, a step in the direction of restrictions is less evil, and opening the door to revisit abortion decisions provides the legal opportunity for life to prevail, even if not in states like California. Making those two positions equal so that one can vote for Obama on other issues is certainly not valid proportional reasoning, and is, in fact, not reasonable at all. But it sounds like a good excuse...
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:03 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Harry: Your question, I venture, is an important one. You ask: "What is the difference between an abortocrat and an abortion-supporter." The two terms are not synonymous. To explain: An abortocrat is someone who would distort the rule of law (rule = cratis) in such a way as to deny pre-born infants due recognition as persons vested with the right to life under law's rule (again: rule = cratis). In its primary sense, then, *abortocrat* is a term that refers to legislators and judges who support the denial of rights to pre-born infants because these legislators and judges reject the proposition that pre-born infants are juridical persons. Now although abortion-supporters are often also abortocrats, though only in an accommodated sense, still, by definition, an abortion-supporter needn't be an abortocrat. Certain families, for example, "support abortion" (for their own family members by "finding ways"), yet do not presume to oppose laws protecting pre-born infants. On the other hand, at the far opposite extreme, there is the estimable jurist, the United States Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia. Justice Scalia has a fine legal
mind; he is an emphatic defender to the right to life; he is not an abortion-supporter. Yet as a matter of Constitutional and common law, Justice Scalia does not believe that the term "person" includes pre-born infants. Again, I'm sorry to say it, but Justice Scalia, although strongly pro-life within the domain of democratic discourse, nonetheless is an abortocrat within the domain of the rule of law. Given these considerations, yes, I do think that the distinction between an abortocrat and an abortion-supporter (or opponent) is an important one.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:39 PM By Paula W.
According the 5 Nov 2008 USA Today, 53% of admitted catholics claim they voted for Obama. They disregarded the american bishops advise and opened the door for this radical idealist into our nations highest political office. Abortion killing will continue legally in this country and with greater atrocity. Immorality will grow with greater frequency and magnitude leading to more henious crimes in exchange for increasing our liberties. The american V2 church will continue to loose members and decay. Obama and his democratic legistlature will fill vacating judge positions with new liberals having radical legislative-like powers ruling from the bench. With an increase of liberals winning political offices, anticipate California's euthenasia law to spread to other states as well. Our national defense and intelligence community will be reduced like in the Clinton administration so we will become a weak nation, unwilling to stand-up for principles, and defend ourselves for what is right like so many europeans. Illegal immigrants will fill our hospitals, kitchens, and streets, meanwhile their gangs will run rampant putting fear into our neighborhoods. Problems in society will rise, especially with gay and lesbians promoting more degeneration to our youth. More souls will be lost to the sins of impurity. Taxpayers will be stressed further losing more of their hard earned income to support wealth redistribution, and the definition of who is rich will continue to decrease in monetary value. The muslims will infiltrate our society and grow in time to eventually end our american way of life. Twenty years from now, considering our short memories, we'll look back and wonder whatever happened to the free nation of our youth, these United States? No thanks to the 53% of catholics whom had their chance to make good for what was best for our country, but threw it all away and for what? Our only choice is to remain close to God and pray, pray, and pray.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:10 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Fr. M.P.: Cardinal Ratzinger's letter to Cardinal McCarrick leaves the specifics of proportionality analysis up to the voter him- or herself. Such is the practical wisdom of this letter.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:41 PM By Martin
Paula, A sad and shameful statistic indeed. In that same USA Today article it was reported 65% of white protestants obeyed the american catholic bishops! We did 12% better. Guess it goes to show american catholics are more liberal than us white american protestants. I remember when we used to criticize catholics for being to conservative and now you've flipped the other way to being more liberal. You catholics didn't seem to help the cause of conservative governance. Paula, your predictions paint a frightening future, but there is no reason why these things couldn't happen as some have been trends for the last few years.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:06 PM By JLS
High level theologians and lawyers of Church and secular law are not the decisive voices on matters such as proportionate reason. The bishops are. One Hundred bishops have authoritative voices; whereas, Kmiec has no authority at all, but only an opinion. God gives grace to those who desire it and the grace is sufficient for anyone to understand any moral issue. As Jesus teaches, if His voice is stopped, then the very stones on the ground will proclaim His glory. God's grace is awesome and infinitely more capable than a non-authoritative Kmiec, whose best to shut off the voice of God is not good enough.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:08 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Paula W.: The American bishops never "advised" Catholics to vote for a particular candidate in yesterday's vote. Speaking unofficially (in effect, as fellow voters), several bishops strongly implied how they intended to vote, but left the matter of actual voting to the "best judgment" of
the Catholic voter--to be sure, in keeping with (1) the well-defined Catholic principles that inform various aspects of the ethics of voting and (2) Cardinal Ratzinger's 2004 letter on the necessity of the presence of proportional reasoning as motivation for a vote where both candidates hold abortocratic views. *** You are sore, Paula, because the majority of Catholics voted contrary to your vote? Understandable--but is there theological ground for you to make an ecclesiastical case out of it? I do not think so. The Church has her own unity. Categorically, that unity is not the unity of a voting bloc.
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Posted Wednesday, November 05, 2008 6:08 PM By JLS
Martin, I see it that a great and historical winnowing has been going on for several decades. The principle of "Jacob's Ladder" is always in play, which is that souls are not static in their move to or away from God. Many Catholics are moving away from God, and many Protestants are moving towards God. This holds as well outside of Christianity ... souls seek God and others seek to hide from God.
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:25 AM By R. J. Keyes
In reply to Martin: It is the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church that the purpose of public law and governance is to foster the common good of persons and institutions. Yet you speak of a time when "you catholics didn't seem to help the cause of conservative governance." Look,
"conservativism" and "liberalism" (in their modern sense) are ideologies. The Catholic Church takes their measure by the standard of good governance, not the other way around. In addition, you claim: "We [protestants] did 12% better." Better than what? The American bishops promoted the well-defined voting ethics of the Church, not one candidacy over the other, especially not when both candidates failed to
meet the standard of good governance: just this fostering of "the common good of persons and institutions" where, of course, the term "persons" is understood to include pre-born infants. In this connection, isn't there a certain confusion
in your claim that 65% of the non-African American protestants "obeyed" the American Catholic bishops? No Catholic was under any such obedience in the first place (see Cardinal Ratzinger's 2004 letter to Cardinal McCarrick on voting ethics). Leaving aside, however, this misreading of the Catholic bishops' position on the 2008 vote for president, why, Martin, do you want to cultivate a rivalrous pleasure in "obeying" Catholic bishops more than Catholics do? Doesn't this rivalrous spirit already presuppose the acceptance of schism in the Church as a good thing rather than as a bad thing?
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:52 AM By Fr. M.P.
John F. Maguire, you didn't deal with the specifics of the proportionate reasoning. You ducked. The Bishops are speaking with their Apostolic authority as official interpreters of the Church's teachings as successors to the Apostles. You ducked again.
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:09 AM By RR
Paula W. : I agree wholeheartedly! All these things I have fear of. The persecution of Catholics has begun! All we can do is pray and trust in God. As I said in a different post, Mother Mary said, "My Immaculate heart will triumph!"
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:56 AM By John F. Maguire
In reply to F.R.: It's after the election, and Fr. M.P., you're still after me to conclude to a specific candidate based on proportionality analysis. You've asked me to do that several times before and I've explained why I haven't done it. I haven't done it because I've aspired, however naively, to articulate, as best I can--and my attempt is certainly open to criticism--the correct contours of Catholic voting ethics, and with that purpose, and only that purpose, in mind, no, I chose not to specify my own proportionality analysis as, necessarily, that analysis would conclude in favor of one candidate or the other; or conclude to a *differend*. Why, then, should I have? Would I have been so easily read as doing what I set out to do, had I expressly concluded to one candidate or the other? I doubt it. It was hard enough attempting to reframe the proportionality discussion on the understanding that the McCain-Palin position on abortion is also abortocratic, although in a different register. Fr. M.P., I am, as you are, against the sin of detraction (James 4:11: "Detract not one another, my brethren. He that detracteth his brother, or he that judgeth his brother, detracteth the law, and judgeth the law"). There is a difference between (1) an upright conscience (against all detraction, I credit my fellow Catholics with an upright conscience in this week's vote) and (2) a veridical conscience (a conscience upright and true). This, I take it, is what Archbishop Chaput means by "best judgment", viz., we must pray that what we consider our best judgment is also veridical (i.e., true judgment) and not simply our best judgment. Still, we are left with what Archbishop Chaput indicates we are left with: our best judgment.
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:16 PM By Anne T.
Even though, Barack Obama has the blood of unborn children on his hands by the sin of commission and omission, I will pray for his conversion. After all, Dr. Bernard Nathanson, the abortionist, converted to the pro-life movement and most of us when we were not aware might have contributed to the holocaust.
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:08 PM By Paula W.
John F. Maguire, I think Joseph P.'s blog on 3 Nov on calcatholic's 29 Oct article “Do not betray the trust the public has placed in you” says it best in countering your reply where you try to justify your and 53% of the other catholics liberal vote: " . . . In an address to the Delegates of the International conference on Emigration, Oct. 17, 1951, His Holiness Pope Pius the XIIth said: "Everyone has to vote according to the dictates of his own conscience. Now, it is evident that the voice of this conscience imposes upon every sincere Catholic the duty of giving his or her vote to those candidates, or those lists of candidates, who really offer sufficient assurances for safeguarding the rights of God and the souls of men, for the real good of individuals, families, and society, according to the law of God and moral Christian doctrine. Source: The Pope Speaks, Pantheon Books: NY, 1957, p.301. Mr. Obama's strong pro-abortionist public speaking and voting record conflicts greatly and opposes with Pope Pius the XIIth's direction since it opposes "safeguarding the rights of God and the souls of men" -- that includes the innocent unborn human-beings murdered in abortion clinics every day! Don't worry about trying to convince me your position was justified, that is something you will have to face before the Supreme Judge, God. Oh by the way, He is a fair and loving God with unimagineable forgiveness for those whom are sincerely sorrowful. Like Joseph P. said: "Liberalizing the US government will not solve our problems, only Almighty God can do that". We catholics all need to beg for God's mercy and pray the Rosary daily for peace and prosperity in a free market system, and oppose socialism already on the rise!
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:25 PM By JLS
RR, the Immaculate Heart has triumphed over me and many other sinners, and no doubt it would be exciting to see this triumph over innumerable others.
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Posted Thursday, November 06, 2008 8:36 PM By JLS
"This, I take it, is what Archbishop Chaput means by "best judgment", viz., we must pray that what we consider our best judgment is also veridical (i.e., true judgment) and not simply our best judgment" (Maguire): Why is it so difficult to understand what the Archbishop is saying? My guess is that the reliance on so many technical words is bogging down the process of understanding. St Thomas Aquinas created all that theology to reach out and bring people into simplicity of faith; but theology can also be used to do the opposite, which is to expand from simplicity on and on ... this is where some of the theologians make their big mistakes ... they are knights riding backwards on their steeds. As for detraction: A man needs to value his reputation only insofar as it reflects Christ. This is why Abp Chaput may have said to use our best judgment, because God will use His best judgment on us if we don't.
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Posted Monday, November 10, 2008 9:24 AM By Fr. M.P.
Lots of words and wiggling. It is simple. Many (unfortunately not all) Bishops have formally put forth best judgment, true judgment, as successors to the Apostles. Speaking the teachings of the Church and pointing out public officials who reject them is not detraction.
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Posted Monday, November 10, 2008 10:47 PM By JLS
As for the one hundred bishops who spoke in unity condemning the attitude of Kmiec, there is no bishop who has defended him.
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Posted Monday, November 10, 2008 10:48 PM By JLS
Kmiec's only justification is the win of Obama. Were he to have lost the election, Kmiec would be left without words.
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