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Published: July 13, 2009
A New Church
Dissenter umbrella group
A coalition of dissenting organizations and individuals called the American Catholic Council are calling for “discussion at every level of the Catholic Church in the United States to consider the state and future of our Church.” The council plans to hold the council on June 10-11, 2011 (Pentecost), in Detroit.
The group’s website describes their aims: “We recall the promise of the Second Vatican Council for a renaissance through a radically inclusive understanding of the role and responsibilities of all the Baptized and an engaged relationship between the Church and the World reflecting the true meaning of the Incarnation for our times. This promise is eroding…We seek nothing short of a personal conversion of all to create a new Church, fully in tune with the authentic Gospel message, the teachings of our Church, and the American context in which we live.”
The website’s press release page contains one item: a release from “Voice of the Faithful.” The release is headlined: “Historic move for VOTF and U.S. Catholics--VOTF instrumental in launching American Catholic Council.” It begins: “January 25, 2009 – Boston – In a move to unite U.S. Catholics, the newly formed American Catholic Council called today for an historic assembly of the Catholic Church in the United States. Voice of the Faithful joins this call, spurred by evidence of serious deterioration in the life of the U.S. Church today.
“’The way the Church is now is not the way it was meant to be,’ says John Hushon, a VOTF board member who serves as council’s co-chair. ‘The Gospels make it abundantly clear that Jesus envisioned a community that welcomes and encourages the gifts of all. The two-tiered clerical system that separates the ordained from the non-ordained was never meant to be, and it has caused enormous harm. Vatican II attempted to recapture the universal call to ministry, but this promise has not been fulfilled.’”
 While the webpage and release avoid specific policy statements, they do mention those who have joined the organizing efforts, including Sr. Joan Chittister, whom is described as a “well-known author on issues of contemporary spirituality.” Chittister was the keynote speaker at Women's Ordination Conference in Dublin, Ireland in June, 2000. Another endorser is former priest Dr. Paul Lakeland, professor of Catholic Thought and Interreligious Dialogue at the (Jesuit) Fairfield University.
Dr. Lakeland was recently in the news for his public support of Connecticut bill 1098, introduced by homosexual activist state Senators Mike Lawlor and Andrew J. McDonald. Bill 1098 sought to use legislative means to restructure the governance of the Catholic Church in Connecticut. The bill was tabled after intense opposition. On March 10, 2009, the Catholic News Agency reported: “The bill, which bears resemblance to Voice of the Faithful’s Strategic Plan, is being supported by Dr. Paul Lakeland, who believes that in this case it’s appropriate to use state legislation to force the Church’s hand…Concluding his support for the bill he said, 'I see absolutely no chance whatsoever of the Institutional Church making a change in this direction without pressure from somewhere outside the Church. There’s not even the most remote likelihood that the Church would adjust in this direction itself. I think this is a way of putting pressure on them to make changes and bringing the issue into a more prominent setting.'" On June 15, 2008, Dr, Lakeland was a guest at the (Jesuit) University of San Francisco. He spoke on the topic: “How the Laity can Save the Church.” Lakeland’s speech was co-sponsored by Voice of the Faithful Northern California and USF’s Lane Center for Catholic Studies and Social Thought.
Other signatory organizations to the council’s declaration include: Call to Action, New Ways Ministry, Catholics for Choice, the Women’s Ordination Conference, Women-Church Convergance, the National Association of American Nuns (Sr. Jeanine Gramnick), the Catholic Diocese of One Spirit, and Dignity.
Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 2:52 AM By Thomas Edward Miles
Sounds like the sky is falling, again!
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 3:53 AM By Charles O'Connell
What an interesting conjunction with the "Gay Marriage" movement: One of the top-10 things to know about the latter, is that in Europe where "gay marriage" is freely accessible, virtually none avail themselves of it. The meaning: they only want "equality" in order to destroy marriage, to drag it down off the altar into the nudie, public sex Sodomite parade out on the Castro, with no care for the harm it causes children. You have to wave yourself through the smoke-bomb assault of an addiction-driven ideology to make sense of what they're up to - they don't even understand it themselves. How refreshing about the pseudo-Catholic folks, that they're more up-front about their ultimate aims: to destroy the Catholic Church. Our weapons: daily Rosary, daily Mass, weekly Holy Hour, do all that you do for God, pray, give alms, fast, do penance and mortify yourself. God will do the rest. These people render themselves puny ants as long as they carry on like this; they're eating away at the facade they imagine the Church to be, without ever coming near to touching the real thing. Some might object: they'll drag down the whole civilization. A response: it's already too late, the cracks formed in the foundation two generations ago. When the dust settles on the destruction to come, the reliable, faithful Church will be there with a small remnant, picking up the pieces.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 5:37 AM By St. Christopher
Evil may win -- temporarily. And groups like the American Catholic Council may be the vanguard of apostacy leading to a tsunami of immorality overcoming the Church. Breaking it down, the ACC (and the like) want specific things: (1) women priests; (2) elimination of the Vatican as the central power source of the Church; (3) recognition of sexual freedoms, from marriage, from the requirement (most places) or man-woman marriage, and the like; and (4) full rights to abortion and other "reproductive freedoms." The fact that these groups wrap themselves in the mantle of Vatican II (or other Church doctrines, histories and the like) simply proves their moral depravities. Yet, in a real way, the vacum and confusion of Vatican II has directly lead to the creation of such groups and to people like Sister Chittister and Dr. Lakeland. Church leadership must embrace its core, its tradition, its evangelical spirit, to succeed now. Without doing so, the Church is likely to shrink, being then represented only by a "remnant" as suggested in scripture.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 7:16 AM By OneoftheSheep
Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the spirit of the Living God.
Protestantism has been tried before. Now many of the Protestants are streaming towards the rock in these uncertain times.
Welcome to all who seek God with a pure heart, dying to self, and taking up their cross to follow the Risen Savior.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 9:23 AM By Tony
Thanks be to God, let's get together and talk, lets not have anymore witch hunts but rather establish true Dialoge and let the Holy Spirit take us where the Spirit wills.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 10:46 AM By john Zakharia
This meeting will comprise of members from all over the USA. I am very sure that many members will be from Los Angeles Arch Diocese. There are many religious in leadership who are dessenters which are allowed to represent the "Catholic Faith".
Many of us Orthodox Catholics don't stand up to them and confront them. Then we are surprised that they are going national and they are organizing and expanding?
This is a clear case of the from in water analogy.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 10:59 AM By Life Lady
Ahh, they are finally slithering out of the woodwork, and crawling out into the light so that we can all finally see them, see who they all are. What a revelation. Well, the die is cast, they have made their choice. Let the coals fall where they may. It is apparent to me that this so-called "new" church is not at all in union with the magisterium of the One Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church. It is they who have lost touch with the true church, not the other way around. Lord, have Mercy, Christ have Mercy, Lord, have Mercy!
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 11:00 AM By Willi H
“We recall the promise of the Second Vatican Council for a renaissance ..."! Such are the fruits of the Council! And yet the traditionalists are demonized by the Church. Pope Paul VI (not a traditionalist) said that the "smoke of Satan" had entered the church.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 11:09 AM By John F. Maguire
It was (1) an early tactic of the post-Conciliar apparatus to exploit certain ambiguities in the texts of the Second Vatican Council in order to advance its own agenda; it was (2) a mid-period tactic of the post-Conciliar apparatus to exploit these ambiguities and, in addition, take the name of the Council in vain in support of its agenda. Today, (3) the extreme wing of the post-Conciliar apparatus proposes "a new church" that would abolish "the two-tiered clerical system" of the past. This spiritualist-protestant dream of a "new" pneumatic "church" envisions the dissolution of the sacerdotal priesthood (namely: the priesthood ordained to offer up the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass), that is, it envisions a collapse of the sacerdotal priesthood into the general priesthood of believers the better to redress the (alleged)
"enormous harm" caused by "the two-tiered clerical system." ~ I would make the argument here that the sacerdotal priesthood, which is the real target of this faux-pneumatic revolt, needs all the more to be restored by restoring the traditional Latin Mass. It is the Mass of the Ages, and just this Mass, that has secured the identity of the sacerdotal priesthood. (When said with proper intent, the New Order of the Mass is valid indeed; but its liturgy does not adequately thematize the Mass as that one and same Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary, now however offered unbloodily by Christ's own sacerdotal priesthood.) The full and proper response to the latest tactic of the post-Conciliar apparatus? Restoration of the traditional Latin Mass.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 11:12 AM By dan
"The two-tiered clerical system that separates the ordained from the non-ordained was never meant to be, and it has caused enormous harm. Vatican II attempted to recapture the universal call to ministry, but this promise has not been fulfilled. " There is a lapse in logic here. Vatican II was led by a two-tiered Church and whose documents presume the continued existence of a two-tiered Church. The article does not state how a two-tiered church is ipso facto inconsistent with the "universal call to ministry." If they do not want any separation between the ordained and non-ordained, then the obvious thing to do would be to eliminate the distinction by eliminating ordination, or by ordaining everyone.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 11:22 AM By David Zarri
Continued dissent on infallible teaching (the ordination of women) is heresy.
Let us all recognize and proclaim the Truth !
In Christ and His Church,
David Zarri
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 12:01 PM By JLS
dan, you've imbibed the "spirit of vatican 2" to a devastating level. Suggestion: Seek the Holy Spirit, instead of the imposture.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 12:04 PM By JLS
Vatican II is doing exactly what it was intended to do, which is to weed out the flakes, to open the windows and evacuate the "smoke of satan". Pope Benedict XVI has reinstalled the high altar of St Paul's Chapel next to the Sistine Chapel. What does this say? Perhaps in another decade or so, the weeding will be done, and the Church will move into her greater mission far less hindered by traitors and perverts.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 12:13 PM By Abeca Christian
Sounds like another protestant group. Another sect away from the true Catholic Church. Yippee.....NOT! Jesus save their souls and the harm they are causing others who follow. I hope our Pope has excommunicated them.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 12:52 PM By Canisius
Sorry Tony, tired of "dialogue" your version of dialogue turns into monologue where your side will take away the TLM but I assure you we traditionalist will NOT be kicked to curb anymore. We Will Fight this progressive corruption
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 1:02 PM By Pax Christi
This council will be nothing but a sheer waste of time and nonsense. All these issues have been decided a long time ago, and rightly so. All that's left is to submit to the authority of the Holy See. We don't need "change" when things are fine just the way they are in the church that is built on the rock rather than the shifting sands populated by the wolves in sheep's clothing who, as Tony suggests, want to "get together and talk."
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 1:41 PM By lome
"The two-tiered clerical system that separates the ordained from the non-ordained was never meant to be, and it has caused enormous harm. Vatican II attempted to recapture the universal call to ministry, but this promise has not been fulfilled.’”
I was just telling everyone about the harms caused by Vatican 2. Then this?
Gospel According to Saint Matthew
18 "Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor.
18 "Upon this rock"... The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the vulgar language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7. 24, 25.
Why is this so hard to accept?
By Divine Revelation, God Called Peter, confirmed by Christ Jesus!
Very Clearly,This is a denial of the divine origin of the mission of Christ, A denial of Christ Divinity!
Didn't God The Holy Spirit rushed to David only after He was anointed?
That there is the difference between the Holy and the Unholy?
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 5:51 PM By garvan
At least Ms. Chittester is honest enough to admit the reason she and her fellow travelers haven't left the Catholic Church to start their own church: That would take a lot of money. Better that they pretend to still be Catholic and, hopefully, take over control of the Catholic Church which already has real estate (church buildings, convents, rectories, school, etc.) and other assets they can use for their own purposes.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 6:39 PM By betty
I'm with dan. If you don't want to distinguish between ordained and nonordained, then don't ordain anybody or else ordain everybody. and what's this suggestion about Seek the Holy Spirit instead of the imposture? I just don't understand it. The big trouble with the two-tiered system was that some people thought that one tier was better than the other tier or they thought they were.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 7:02 PM By JLS
Yeah, garvan, but that's not really honesty, but only a sham of it. Some there are who admit that abortion is a sin but also say that it is necessary. Bill Clinton all but said that he could obviously lie to the public, tell us he wasn't lying, and then lap up the votes. It's not honesty, but bold face lying. These people are professional deceivers.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 7:08 PM By lome
July 13, 2009
"The American Catholic Council is a Church of men!
"The two-tiered clerical system that separates the ordained from the non-ordained was never meant to be!"
What God has is common with Mammon?
Unless they succeeded in bringing down, the God-ordained to their level? Non-ordained, being equal to God-ordained?
Those that deny the Divine Origin of the Church must be from the Anti-Christ! Catholics Beware Please!
If these New Church sounded eerie! Then It Probably is! So check this in the scriptures, and see that this is the exact opposite of Church's teachings.
Calling all Catholics, Now we see the importance of the living sacrifice of the holy Mass, in receiving the Holy Eucharist. So our Soul won't die thus enabling us to see the light.
Remember that the Protestant help devised the new mass, And how important to put it back to Old Latin. Pronto!!
"The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter." (Psalm 74:16-17)
The 74th Psalm is a sad lamentation over the apparent triumph of the enemies of God, but its central verse is a beautiful statement of faith: "For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth" (Psalm 74:12). Then, in support of his faith, the psalmist remembers the mighty creative acts of God in ancient times, giving assurance that He could, indeed, and work salvation in these present times.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 7:29 PM By lome
The New American Church!
Those who are in a position to do something about this,pls. remember that the sin of commissions is the same as the sins of omission!
Remember what the prophet told Esther?
It was not by accident that you are closed to the king?
It was pre-destined! Your position is not by accident!
By virtue of your position, go and save the day, and give God the glory!
The work is short,the reward is infinite glory and the punishment is eternal.
This is a fight to the finish! There are no middle grounds.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 7:36 PM By lome
July 13, 2009
"The two-tiered clerical system that separates the ordained from the non-ordained was never meant to be!"
The American Catholic Council is a Church of men!
What God has is common with Mammon?
Unless they succeeded in bringing down, the God-ordained to their level? Non-ordained, being equal to God-ordained?
Those that deny the Divine Origin of the Church must be from the Anti-Christ! Catholics Beware Please!
If these New Church sounded eerie! Then It Probably is! So check this in the scriptures, and see that this is the exact opposite of Church's teachings.
Calling all Catholics, Now we see the importance of the living sacrifice of the holy Mass, in receiving the Holy Eucharist. So our Soul won't die thus enabling us to see the light.
Remember that the Protestant help devised the new mass, And how important to put it back to Old Latin. Pronto!!
"The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter." (Psalm 74:16-17)
The 74th Psalm is a sad lamentation over the apparent triumph of the enemies of God, but its central verse is a beautiful statement of faith: "For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth" (Psalm 74:12). Then, in support of his faith, the psalmist remembers the mighty creative acts of God in ancient times, giving assurance that He could, indeed, and work salvation in these present times.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 8:19 PM By Bristow
For some odd reason, I don't feel very distressed, or threatened by this new group. I had a long military career, and the one that you learn in service, is that it's best to keep you enemy to your front, and not at you back. As distressing as it may sound, and contrary to the call of Christ, the Church in this country is dividing into the Roman Church in union with Bishop of Rome, and the American Catholic Church. The very sad thing is, I'm not sure it's such bad thing. The Holy Father has said that he would prefer a smaller, but more faithful Church, sadly, he just might get it.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 8:44 PM By WOODY GUIDRY
The more they try to be different, the more they are the same. Since Luther, dogma dummies have tried to reform the Church which remains undeformed.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 9:00 PM By Luis Gutierrez
In my opinion, the ACC would do well to focus on promoting the ordination of women (something that is well understood, has been shown to have a sound scriptural foundation, and is supported by most of the faithful) and dismantling Vatican imperialism, and defer further action on issues that are not well understood, in particular issues of human sexuality.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 9:09 PM By Virgo Potens
"Voice of the Faithful joins this call, spurred by evidence of serious deterioration in the life of the U.S. Church today." Yes, life in the Church has deteriorated significantly, after 40 years of relentless change. And so VotF proposes more, and more radical, change? Folks, if you're not going to be Catholic, at least be logical.
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Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 11:04 PM By MarkF
While in Brooklyn last month, I stumbled into an old historic Protestant place of worship. I was there to look at the stained glass. What I found was a service lead by one of those womyn-priests. There were exactly eight people there for the service. Well...if you're tired of your local legitimate Catholic priest not having enough time for you because he has to minister to over one thousand people, you may consider joining one of these womyn-priest groups. Hey, from what I saw you pretty much get one on one ministering. Oh, and the womyn-priest, who I must say had a real gift for speaking, told her gang of eight that her inspiration came from automatic writing. For those of you not familiar with this, automatic writing is when a person's hand writes words and sentences without the direction of the conscious mind. It certainly is either a form of a psychotic break or of demonic influence. This poor woman has opened herself up to the occult and look where it's lead her...to being excommunicated. Anyways, my main point is that these dissenter groups are tiny, very tiny, and old, very old. Let them go. Encourage them to go. That will be the end of them.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:02 AM By Dan
Like protestants... this is protestant mind and soul. You are apostates and you guys have abandoned the faith long time ago, including heretical "nuns", ex-priests, sodomites, perverts, communists, and the rest. Good luck with your new coven, and please, stay far, far away from us!!
We need a small, purer, and more faithful Holy Catholic Chuch, attached to our traditions, and cut off from all modernism, liberalism, and progresivism that these nuts represent. I am happy, they will be finally gone.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 12:18 AM By Dan
"dan, you've imbibed the "spirit of vatican 2" to a devastating level. Suggestion: Seek the Holy Spirit, instead of the imposture." JLS -- how does one write "tongue in cheek' and not be misconstrued on a forum such as this?
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:46 AM By RIchard Flores
Wow...let's see...The "formerly Catholic" Jesuit Universities strike again!
When will the leadership in the church stop allowing this heresy! It is PAST time to define the doctrines without question that define a "Catholic"! Anyone that supports other views...Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
The humanism and justification theologies/heresies failed in the 16th century, and they fail now!
Being a Catholic is a privilege! (If you are lukewarm, I'll vomit you out of my mouth!) These people aren't lukewarm! They are stone cold! ALL of the pseudo-Catholics, pro-death, modernist/humanists, etc. need to leave and find out that they are united in heresy, which is death. Vatican II was NOT synonymous with "tolerance of sin" as they propose! Can you imagine Jesus putting up with this nonsense? Why do the "Vicar's of Christ" put up with it? They are supposed to be ":defending the faith", NOT cowering in their mansions!
The church will never be strong again as long as heretics are allowed to proclaim to be Catholics without any repercussions! They learned that during the inquisitions! While I do NOT support another similar inquisition, I DO support the formation of a counsel to "protect the faith" in the US that addresses this type of disobedience and heresy! They could address ALL of the problems with the Jesuits at the same time! (Our Mother of Perpetual Help...Pray for us!)
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 7:27 AM By The original Frank
With regard to John Maguire's point (3): Though I've met other VotF members, I've never personally met John Hushon and without some more context, I'd be very reluctant to extrapolate negative conclusions from the quote as you did with regard to dissolution or destruction of the sacerdotal priesthood, or the need to "redress" harm caused by separation of the laity from clergy. VotF members I know personally are people of high moral and intellectual development. Their discussions have been as seriously misinterpreted by the press as quantum electrodynamics is misinterpreted by people who don't comprehend partial differential equations. Furthermore, the "dissenter" moniker applies to them no more aptly than it does to more strident supporters of the TLM who deny the validity and effect of the Ordinary Mass; a genuine "dissenter umbrella group" would have to bring these two groups together. There's no reason to doubt that this Council's objective is as they say: to grow the laity in faithfulness to the Gospel. The extrapolated objective of clerical destruction is an example of "either/or" thinking which misses the "both/and" reality.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 8:53 AM By Abeca Christian
garvan this group is not truly Catholic......Capish! Comprende? Comprehend?
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:21 AM By mono-tony
I still think that the more they try to be different, the more they stay the same.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:46 AM By irene
VOTF,Call to Action, New Ways Ministry, Catholics for Choice, the Women’s Ordination Conference, Women-Church Convergance, the National Association of American Nuns (Sr. Jeanine Gramnick), the Catholic Diocese of One Spirit, and Dignity - all big red flags to watch out for - St. Paul said “For there shall be a time when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:
“And will turn away indeed their hearing from the truth but will be turned to fables". We should all pray for the gifts of the Holy Spirit - especially wisdom, discernment and courage during these days - most important, study and know your faith - knowledge is a great weapon against heresy.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:31 AM By Alfonso
The people promoting this nonsense are all in their seventies and eighties; does anyone really believe that this has any appeal.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 10:41 AM By Peter
Sounds like a vain attempt at some post Vatican II 1970's clergy to gain back control....this will not happen. Fear not...in 10 years most of them will have gone to their eternal reward.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 1:56 PM By AuntieD
I went to the web site for the "Catholic" Diocese of One Spirt. It's more like the church of no spirit. Their explanation of what they believe is a joke. It's far out-freaking believe-what-you-want-to-believe, make-it-up-as-you-go-along, that-bad-old-big-CC-that-won't-let-you-do-what-you-want-to-do-poor-you church. Pathetic!
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:49 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to The original Frank: I made no reference to any single person in this matter -- and am not sure why you have. Instead, I referred to a collectivity: namely, "the extreme wing of the post-Conciliar apparatus." I did this because that collectivity is the topic of my post, but again: not any one person, let alone the person you've named.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:49 PM By lome
To: Luis,
Posted Monday, July 13, 2009 9:00 PM By Luis Gutierrez
In my opinion, the ACC would do well to focus on promoting the ordination of women (something that is well understood, dismantling Vatican imperialism, and defer further action on issues that are not well understood, in particular issues of human sexuality.
Those who thirst for spiritual truth,Please read your bible.
(DRV). Don't customize the High Spiritual standard of the church to man's level but to the contrary!
Pray to God for for more laborers.
Pastors,do you not see?people are moving,talking about in total darkness?What are you waiting for?
Who would lead them to Christ?
One seer was told that the vast number of souls falling to Hell are like snows!
That lukewarm religious and clergies who failed in their calling suffer more for their marks!
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:50 PM By JLS
Sorry, dan, my error.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 4:55 PM By JLS
VoTF, ToF, is a dissent group. You seem to confuse intelligence with faith a lot. VoTF members may include good and intelligent people, but that is not what constitutes the bedrock of Catholicism. Luther was intelligent, and Calvin, and Buddha, and Mohammed, and Henry VIII, and Hitler, and Mao and Attila the Hun ... Jesus is God, and it is He Who is the head of the Church. Anyone can be more intelligent than the brightest pagan star, by being in union with Christ. It is man's place to rule over the angels of God, for it is man's destiny to share the mind of God. When the likes of the VoTF elite go off after some gander, they give up the intellect they otherwise might have enjoyed.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 6:39 PM By Mark from PA
Well, Voice of the Faithful could be considered dissenting in that they are dissenting against the treatment of young people by many priests and bishops in the Church. Many bishops surely don't like VoTF. They want people to look the other way and close their eyes to what they have done and what they have allowed. Yes, they are dissenters, but at least they are honest. Let them dissent all they want. Perhaps after a while the bishops will listen.
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Posted Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:02 PM By The original Frank
In response to John M: I don't think it's accurate to characterize VoTF as the single "extreme wing of the post-Conciliar apparatus" --- is that what you had in mind? Conservative or ultramontane "wings" are in existence as well. Since you usually name your sources and here you quoted Hushon, I assumed his statement is the basis of your comment.
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Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:22 AM By lome
If you really believe in your heart, that this current moral crisis is out of hand and insane, then it's time to ask yourself. These insanities are beyond human understanding?
Then believe me when Our Lady says that we are at the last chapter of the bible. The alignment of the sheep from the goats!
We have to believe in the supernatural to fight this.
It takes an act of faith to both pray to God and to fight
Evils. We are not fighting with human flesh but with spiritual rulers of this world.
This new American Catholic Council, some activist Judges and many others like Sanger are just pawns in the big spiritual battles that started after
Gen 3:15.
I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel.
Note;
See how the Protestant Luther changed "her seed to his seeds and her heels to his heels!”
See how our Catholic church becoming similar to Protestant after Vatican 2?
See how Bishop Bugnini with 6 Protestants help composed our modern mass?
This explains why Protestant ignored the role of Mary in the building of the church. Also, Mary is the Woman in the apocalypse of John.
Apocalypse 12 1 and a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet and on her head a crown of twelve stars:
Catholics should start reading their Douay-Rheims Bible!
(Latin Vulgate English Ver.)
Let us start being strong with the word of God and ignorant in malice, instead of the other way around!
I truly wish Protestants coming back to the fold.
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Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:43 PM By John F. Maguire
Again, Frank, I made no specific reference to VoTF nor to the gentleman you mentioned who is associated with it.
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Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:30 PM By Alfonso
About 4 years ago someone from Crisis magazine joined VoTf for a few months and attended all the meetings. The name is a front for the same old dissent from Catholic teaching/practice but because the average catholic has gotten tired of the liberal spin they now style themselves as "faithful" the better to muddy the waters and rope in Catholics. Since the very things some of these people endorse (like the "gay" agenda) are the root cause, it is absurd that they could work for the salvation of souls and the good of the church. No bishop in his right mind would listen to them.
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Posted Wednesday, July 15, 2009 10:56 PM By baron
Revitalizing the 1960s. No more hemp or patchouli incense but the odor of the sin of obstinacy continues to waft throughout the meeting halls.
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Posted Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:43 AM By Abeca Christian
lome I was enlightened by your post. Great info and truly a post with conviction. Wish people would see this more and even priests for that matter. I have seen many priests conform to what is easier, the ways of this world. You can tell by the way they preach from the pulpit, the faith and teachings are very much watered down. The ones who fight the good fight are usually persecuted and actually feel alone in the good fight.
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Posted Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:51 PM By Abeca Christian
Correction: "The ones who fight the good fight are usually persecuted and actually feel alone in the good fight. " Actually when someone fights the good fight shouldn't feel alone because God is the strength that is giving the human strength, if someone feels alone, it is a lie from the devil. Submerge yourself in prayer and delight in the ways of the Lord, for He is your comfort and thou art never alone!
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Posted Monday, July 27, 2009 8:16 AM By friend to all
Comment by Will H: "Pope Paul VI (not a traditionalist) said that the "smoke of Satan" had entered the church."
Most likely the smoke is coming from the entrenched "cigar" of evil doers within the hierarchy who have abandoned the Bible. Make it your lifetime goal to root them out!!
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Posted Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:26 PM By Mary
Our Lady said at the feast of Cana "Do as He tells you" In today's world where is Christ? Christ is in the Church. He is wounded by our sins but He is still here with us.Holy obedience is needed There is a vast difference between questionning and dissent .God gave us intelligence to use and apply .Holy obedience brings with it the gift of the Holy Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit is what preserves the Church from error and helps guide us in the direction of Truth.
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