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Published: November 30, 2007
“You don’t harass them”
Pastor who had pro-life parishioner arrested takes different approach when it comes to homosexuals
Q: What do pro-life activist Ross Foti and the homosexual-friendly Most Holy Redeemer parish in San Francisco have in common?
A: Fr. Anthony E. McGuire.
McGuire is the pastor at St. Matthew’s parish in San Mateo who told Foti to cover signs of aborted babies he displayed on his truck and who recently had Foti arrested when he attended Mass at St. Matthew’s. (McGuire had banned him from the parish.) But McGuire was also the pastor who, according to a recent book, made Most Holy Redeemer parish in the Castro gay friendly in the early ‘80s.
In his short biography as director of the United States Bishops Pastoral Care of Migrants and Refugees, McGuire wrote that as a priest of the San Francisco archdiocese, “I pastored a parish with a large gay community and helped the community respond to an AIDS crisis in a resourceful, creative and spiritual way.” This parish was Most Holy Redeemer, which, led by the Rev. Anthony McGuire, said the Sept. 17, 1987 New York Times, “raised funds for and rented space at low cost to the Coming Home Hospice, which houses 15 AIDS patients,” among other things.
According to the recently published Gays and Grays: The Story of the Inclusion of the Gay Community at Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Parish by Jesuit Fr. Donal Godfrey, San Francisco’s former archbishop, John Quinn, sent McGuire to Most Holy Redeemer in 1982 to minister to the area’s homosexuals. Quinn “chose a man who turned out to be especially suited to the new sociological profile of the parish. Under Father Anthony McGuire -- ‘Fr. Tony’ -- the parish was reborn.” (Godfrey’s quotes are from excerpts published in an Aug. 28 posting on the web site “A Shepherd’s Voice.”)
Godfrey notes how the Rev. Jim Mitsulki of the homosexual Metropolitan Community Church said that, during McGuire’s time at the parish, there was “a certain revolving-door factor operating between their respective congregations. Some attended services at both churches… Sometimes parishioners from Most Holy Redeemer went to MCC for same-sex weddings they could not hold at MHR.”
Regarding these “married” homosexual couples, Godfrey quotes McGuire: “Well the question in my mind was, the people who make a conscientious decision to live together as a gay couple, and then they come to communion, just like people who make a similar decision on birth control, you don’t harass them. You respect their decision. The next step was, ‘Can a clearly gay couple take on open ministries in the church?’ Like if a gay couple apply for ordination, that would clearly be an obex [obex is Latin term meaning “hindrance”]. What about Eucharistic Ministers? I thought maybe I should consult [Archbishop Quinn], but then we already had them!”
Godfrey notes McGuire’s “marvelous sense of humor” – as when in the homily at his final Mass of Thanksgiving in the parish, McGuire “deadpanned that when he first arrived in the parish, he just thought ‘Hail Holy Queen’ was a good entrance hymn!”
Then there was the AA Halloween party in the church hall, where everyone (unannounced to McGuire) was in “either in drag or wearing practically nothing!” Godfrey writes that the next day, a woman who, “in [McGuire’s] words, was ‘the second most uptight parishioner,’ called and was furious. She berated him over the impropriety of such goings-on on church property. ‘It was like Sodom and Gomorrah!’ she thundered. To which McGuire answered meekly, with his mischievous humor, ‘Well, maybe Sodom’.”
McGuire told California Catholic Daily that he does not think “anything our church teaches says we should be anti-homosexuals. We take each person on their journey to God and help them along the way.” When asked whether he agreed that homosexual acts are sinful, McGuire replied, “I accept the teaching of the Church, but I also accept individual people who are trying to come closer to the Lord, to help them along the way.”
Asked whether, in accepting the teaching of the Church, he affirmed that homosexual acts are sinful, McGuire said, “I accept the fact that, yeah, homosexual acts are essentially disordered, is the way that the Church explains it.”
Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 2:42 AM By Vincenzo
This is quite extraordinary! A Catholic priest who dares to minister to sinners! How it must put the uptight pharisees off! And yet there was a time when the gay Oscar Wilde could quip "'The Catholic Church is for saints and sinners alone. For respectable people the Anglican Church will do." Today it often seems that the neocons want the Catholic Church to be for respectable people and none other. As for homosexual acts being sinful, that's a sweeping generalization. Are heterosexual acts always holy? Isn't it the quality of the relationship, the presence of an altruistic love, that decides if the lovemaking is or is not sinful? Surely if two guys (or two gals) fall in love, and commit to each other for life, and express their love genitally, that is holy, leading to physical, spiritual and emotional wholeness? And Bishop Geoffrey Robinson seems to imply just such a possibility in his remarkable new book "Confronting power and sex in the Catholic Church" ... it's well worth a read. As Christ pointed out, let he among you who is without sin throw the first stone! Well, I for one ain't going to dare throw a stone, not even at my gay brothers and sisters in Jesus.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 2:52 AM By Chuck
This guy looks like the crooked police chief in the Godfather. Doesn't he?
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 9:33 AM By Laurette Elsberry
Fr. McGuire is surely a prime candidate for a "Millstone Award" for his scandalous words and actions. I was thinking that Ross Foti should be a candidate for a Purple Heart, but purple is too close to the "gay" iconic color lavender. Foti deserves a "Red Heart" of the Church, denoting that he is becoming a martyr to his Faith. There will be many more along the way in the war against true Catholicism by the godless element in this country (and in our Church).
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 10:25 AM By Georgia
Fr. McGuire. Your entrance hymn is an insult to The Blessed Virgin Mary. A more suitable hymn would be "Dreaded Day". Dreaded day that day of ire, When the world shall melt in fire, Told by Sibyl and David's lyre. Fright mens hearts shall rudely shift, As the Judge through gleaming rift Comes each soul to closely sift. Then, the trumpet's shrill refrain, Piercing tombs by hill and plain, Souls to judgment shall arraign. Death and nature stand agast, As the bodies rising fast, Hie to hear the sentence passed. Then, before Him shall be placed, That whereon the verdict's based, Book wherein each deed is traced. When the Judge His seat shall gain, All thats hidden shall be plain, Nothing shall unjudged remain.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 10:46 AM By Georgia
"Dies ire" Dies ire, dies illa, Solvet saeclum in favilla, Teste David cum Sibylla. Quantus tremor est futurus, Quando judex est venturus, Cuncta stricte discussurus' Tuba mirum spargens sonum Per sepulchra regionum, Coget omnes ante thronum. Mors stupebit et natura, Cum resurget creatura, Judicanti responsura. Liber scriptus proferetur, In quo totum continetur, Unde mundus judicetur. Judex ergo cum sedebit, Quidquid latet apparebit: Nil inulyum remanebit.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 11:27 AM By garvan
Vincenzo, there is a big difference between ministering to those mired in the sin of sodomy, and affirming their perversions, as "Fr" McGuire did/does. The sin of sodomy, unrepented, consigns its practitioners to hell for all eternity. You could at least show a little concern for the immortal souls of practioners of anal sex.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 12:43 PM By Harry
Jesus associated with those sinners who were sorry for sinning, who asked forgiveness and were willing to try to conform their lives to His. They did not demand that He conform His teaching to their standards and mainstream disordered behavior. What is so difficult to understand about that? Christ never yielded to pressure to soften the challenge which His message presented to people.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 2:32 PM By a henneberry
May God have mercy on you, Father Mcguire and forgive you..
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 3:03 PM By Fr. VF
Vincenzo: "As for homosexual acts being sinful, that's a sweeping generalization." Of course it is, just like the following "sweeping generalizations": All embezzlements are sinful. All procured abortions are sinful. All adultery is sinful. All perjuries are sinful. All defrauding of workers of their wages is sinful. All genocide is sinful. The Church defines a great many acts as intrinsically (and, ergo, always) sinful. Characterizing the Church's teaching that all sodomy is sinful as a "sweeping generalization" simply does not make any point--unless what you mean to deny is precisely that the Church has any authority to teach.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 3:18 PM By John L. Sillasen
McGuire is not ministering to sinners; he is covorting with them, from what I have been reading.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 3:25 PM By Lisa
I guess we have Fr. McGuire to thank for the current condition of MHR parish.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 3:33 PM By Lisa
Here's a You Tube video of an event in MHR's parish hall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GxvcJmFM8. Things haven't changed much since the AA Halloween party. Fr. McGuire should have listened to that uptight parishioner. Fr. McGuire shares a large part of the blame for all the lost souls of MHR who may be facing eternal damnation.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 4:36 PM By michael
you clowns at calcathlic & and you silly November 30th commentors better hope that God is a forgiving, loving parent with a sense of humor, because you are messing with one of jesus' good brothers in a Fr.Anthony McGuire.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 5:03 PM By Victoria
There should be someone to Minister to Gay People. They are the Children of GOD just like the rest of us. How come you people never get this hopping mad about the priests who raped children? Then all you write about is how the victims should forgive and forget.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 5:21 PM By Sonja
Chuck, the guy in the Godfather was not a Police Chief. He was a Police Captain; played by the actor, Sterling Hayden. And McGuire looks nothing like him. Tell ya what he does resemble though.....A Carnival Barker who talks out of the side of his mouth.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 5:42 PM By Robert Lockwood
It is interesting to follow how much the homosexual adjenda has infiltrateed the Catholic Church and it's members. The facts are: 1,850 homosexual men were RECRUTED to our Catholic seminaries in the mid 80's which accounts for a substantial amount of our troubles. Homosexuality is not normal - if it were normal we all could be homosexual and that would be the end of society in three gbenerations as there would be no people. Seven out of ten homosexuals can be treated and returned to normal by professionals. Do you EVER hear anything about treatment? Temptation is everywhere, the question is are we ready to resist or do we go with the flow?
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 6:27 PM By John L. Sillasen
I just watched the MHR parish hall bingo video on YouTube, suggested in the post by Lisa. Somewhat different from my concept of Catholic social life! Is that all that those people live for? What devastated souls!
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 7:29 PM By Lisa
Dear Mr. Foti,
I'm sorry for the pain you have suffered at the hands of your fellow parishioners and pastor. Have you had any support from your parish pro-life group? Has anyone come to your defense? Have you called or wrote to your bishop and if so what was his response?
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 7:48 PM By Miguel
It's just amazing to me how homosexuals have to keep reaffirming how much they are Gods children. Hmm, could it be a little insecurity. If they are Gods children and just a holy as anybody they would'nt need to convince me! They would be at peace with themselves and their percieved persecution!!
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 8:47 PM By Sonja
Miguel, your intolerance smacks of an agenda of hatred. Our Dear Lord Loves Us All.....Even You.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 9:24 PM By Lisa
From the shocking vulgar Sodom and Gomorrah like events I've seen in photos and in video these last few months with even the government and police department giving their support of such events I would reccomend that any faithful Catholics, Christians and any people of faith who believe in God's wrath to get out of the city NOW. The current environment in the city of San Francisco makes Sodom and Gomorrah look like nice little fairytale. Run away as fast as you can and don't look back lest you turn into a pillar of salt.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 9:36 PM By garvan
Victoria writes, "There should be someone to minister to
Gay People.". There is. He is the same person who ministers to adulterers, fornicators, embezzlers, burglars, bank robbers, wife beaters, liars, cheaters and all other sinners: your parish priest.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 9:57 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Victoria,
Ministering to the sodomites is not the question, giving in to their sins is. Fr. John Harvey, Fr. Perozich, and many other good priest administer to them under the auspices of "Courage" under the teachings of the Magisterium!
Lisa, do you have any idea who Mr. Foti's Bishop is? It sure doesn't sound like you do!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 10:02 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Robert Lockwood,
Are you the same Robert Lockwood who was the Editor of a major Catholic publication? I think it was "Our Sunday Visitor" or perhaps "National Catholic Register"!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 10:10 PM By Herman
The answer is simple...Bring back the mass of our Fathers....out with Novus Ordo in with Latin.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 10:33 PM By Sonja
Fisher, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Posted Friday, November 30, 2007 11:58 PM By Lisa
Dear Ken,
Of course I know who Mr. Foti's bishop is. Mr. Foti's bishop is good ole say nothing while perverts are fornicating and sodomizing each other in the street (Folsom Street Fair), do nothing when people report to him that a cage dancing Jesus is stripped in front of St. Joseph's Catholic Church (also at Folsom Street Fair) http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/561 . This Bishop is George Niederauer who contracted with another adoption service so that gays could still adopt children. This Archbishop also thought that the movie Brokeback Mountain was a good movie.... need I go on?
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 6:27 AM By John L. Sillasen
Those in the gay agenda do not have faith in God; if they did, then they'd be asking how to find salvation, instead of speculating vainly.
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 9:00 AM By Thomas
OH MY GOD, A REAL PRIEST OF THE GOSPELS AND OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH REACHING OUT TO THOSE HOMOSEXUAL SINNERS, I LOVE IT ,FOR ONCE WE HAVE A PRIEST THAT ACTS AS JESUS DID....WHAT A CONCEPT; NOW I UNDERSTAND WHY HE DRIVES THE RIGHT WING NUTS!!!!!!!!
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:34 AM By Ruth
Wow. Good for that priest, he just won even more respect, from me at least. The title of this article is very interesting. Logically, why would anyone harass a group who isn't posting disgusting (if 'teachable') images?
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 12:15 PM By Sonja
JLS, how cheeky of you to speak of the spirituality and conscience of people you do not even know. Next you will be claiming to speak for GOD. Tell me, does this infinite wisdom come to us from atop a mountain, or just a soap box?
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 1:17 PM By SNoel
Vincenzo: Please read God's definition of Love I Corithinians 13. Remember even though God is All Good and All Love, He is also All Judge who made Hell. This is why we ask for His mercy every day. These homosexuals are not in a real loving relationship because real love brings peace.
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 2:21 PM By Fred H
I just saw the Utube video referenced by Lisa on her Friday posting above. It doesn't say when it was taken, and I assume it really was in MHR's church hall. Whoever was the pastor in charge that permitted this needs to be sent to counseling. This video removes all doubt in my mind that these gays are actively promoting gay sex, they're not at the church seek a reformed life. The pastor in charge is not helping them, he is pandering to them and making a fool of himself and the Catholic Church. Is he waiting for Jesus to storm in and knock over the tables? You go to the sinners, you don't invite their sins onto church property and placate the sinner. Disgusting.
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:17 PM By Lisa
Thomas,
All sinners are welcome in the Catholic Church, no one should be turned away no matter what their sin but the former pastor of MHR, Fr. McGuire and the present pastor of MHR, Fr. Meriwether were and are giving these lost souls tacit approval and giving them cause to celebrate their disordered condition while they should be encouraging them to "go and sin no more" not "go and sin some more" like the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence motto goes. By blessing parishioners on their way to march in the pornographic gay pride parade, allowing the SPI and S&M leather groups to rent out the hall, how is this ministering? I wonder how many of these parishioners at MHR have contracted AIDS, died of AIDS or spread the deadly disease because they were being told by Fr. McGuire and Fr. Meriwether that God loved them just the way they are and doesn't care if they change?
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:52 PM By Victoria
Ken Fisher, I did not say, SODOMITES. I said, GAY PEOPLE. And besides, if you are so all fired up against Gay People, clean out that nest among the Sacred College of Cardinals and the USCCB. Then clean up the reputation of our Morally Bankrupt Church. Then, and only then, can anyne in the Church speak on matters of Morality, and expect to be believed.
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 6:02 PM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Sonja,
I am praying for you!
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. www.crcoa.com
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:11 PM By John L. Sillasen
Sonja, why wouldn't a Catholic in good standing speak for God? Would you rather we speak for the devil or the world or the flesh? Obviously a Catholic who speaks his or her best for God is doing the will of God. Don't you know anything at all? Have you ever heard of the Great Commission which is the command by Jesus for the Church to teach and disciple all nations? If you have a specific criticism instead of the liberal mode of emotional rant with no basis, then I welcome it.
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Posted Saturday, December 01, 2007 7:18 PM By John L. Sillasen
Actually the clergy who indulges the sodomites are turning them away from God. Further, by giving those in a state of sin the Eucharist is condemning them. Charity is informing sinners of their sin and their need to confess, and introducing them to Jesus Christ. Being in a state of grace helps; but being in a state of mortal sin will lead others to hell. Now, Sonja, when you say that reputation is the licence for anyone in the Church to speak on morality, you are not speaking as a Catholic, but as something like a Puritan or Manichean (the heresy which St Augustine defeated). It is not reputation but holiness from which the teaching and preaching of the Church spring.
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Posted Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:37 AM By Sonja
TO: Kenneth M.Fisher.
Gee, Thanks Dad.
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Posted Sunday, December 02, 2007 5:35 PM By ross foti
There are many people who seem to dispute my sincere belief that graphic posters of aborted pre-born babies do not inflict any injuries to children. Based on my 18 years of doing pro-life work, I have found that after talking to people that I have encountered, who are against my graphic posters, 99% of them are pro-choice or have had an abortion. These same people seem to have a bad habit of using the children as an excuse to condemn my graphic posters. The only children that are affected by my graphic posters are the innocent victims of the cruel, deadly, and diabolical act of abortion. I have had people who I had never met before come back to the abortion clinic years later, where I do my pro-life work, with there babies and tell me that it was because of my graphlic posters that changed their minds to not have an abortion. Also, I have had people come back and tell me that if they had seen my graphic posters that they would not have had an abortion. Really, my graphic posters are positive and serve to inform, to educate, and to give the people a chance to see for themselves the results of that cruel and violent act of an abortion so they will be able to make an informed and positive choice. The people of this nation should be fighting to stop the R-rated, out of control, bloody, gory, and unrestrained, graphic violence and that immoral, uncensored, explicit, and perverted pornography that is running rampant on our televisions and movie theaters. If anything is causing permanment damage to our children psychologically, physically, and emotionally, it is this type of evil entertainment with their nagative effects that is destroying our nation and the minds of our future generations...our children. Lastly, I am saddened and sorry that Father McGuire and the parents of St. Matthews caused me to be banned from my parish and arrested for trying to carry out the gospel of life. We must pray for them!
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Posted Sunday, December 02, 2007 7:10 PM By John L. Sillasen
ross foti, it is good to read your post. May God give you even more abundant graces.
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Posted Sunday, December 02, 2007 10:35 PM By maria c
Mr. Ross Foti we appreciate you. You are a blessed soul. God bless you.
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Posted Sunday, December 02, 2007 11:34 PM By Vincenzo
Dear Fr VF, and Garvan: you seem to equate homosexual love with adultery, fornication, embezzlement, burglary, bank robberery, wife beating, lying, cheating, abortion, perjury, defrauding workers of their wages and even genocide. Well let's square these against the Law of the Gospel [i.e. love of God, neighbour and self]. Adultery hurts the spouse who is cheated on. Wife beating, abortion, murder, genocide ... these all harm a human being in pretty obvious ways. Stealing, cheating etc also harm in pretty obvious ways. Well, Fr VF, how does two men loving each other, forming a lifelong union, and expressing their love by making love harm God, neighbour or self? The duty lies upon you to prove your revolting assumption. As the Prophet Micah says, all Yahweh asks of us is to act justly, love tenderly and walk humbly with our God!
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Posted Sunday, December 02, 2007 11:57 PM By Vincenzo
Dear SNoel, you wrote "Vincenzo: Please read God's definition of Love I Corithinians 13. Remember even though God is All Good and All Love, He is also All Judge who made Hell. This is why we ask for His mercy every day. These homosexuals are not in a real loving relationship because real love brings peace." Well, I have read St Paul's version of love [let's not limit God to mere words, which are finite and which can never fully convey the inexpressible divine mystery], and I see nothing there that is in opposition to the altruistic love which two men, or two women can have for each other in a loving gay relationship. The love of homosexuals does not appear to bring peace simply because of the hate of anti-gay bigots! One might as well argue that Christ was not love because he has caused thousands of years of conflict [Crusades, etc]. Let's not blame the sins of others, even those claiming to be good Christians, upon those who are peaceful, serene and loving!
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 9:40 AM By Elizabeth
To Lisa .....Bless your heart for your loving words for Mr. Foti.
Yes, Mr. Foti has people who support him with prayers and with kind words and legal representation.
I like to think of him as a present day John the Baptist!!!!
PLEASE PRAY FOR HIM.
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 10:37 AM By Lisa
Dear Vincenzo,
Homosexual Love or Homosexaul attraction is a disorder. Homosexual genital activity is not only a mortal sin it is extremly unhealthy. Sodomy is one of the four sins that cries to heaven for vengeance. All the other sins you listed are also bad but the sinners who are engaging in these sins usually know what they are doing is wrong while homosexuals have been brainwashed by the lie that they were born that way and they can't help it. Homosexuality is a sin against nature. If liberal mainstream America really knew the stuff that goes on in Gay bars they would do a quick about face with their cries and pleas for gay marriage.
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 12:17 PM By Grisha
Lisa: what are these four sins and what authority says they "cry out from heaven for vengence."?
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 1:19 PM By Peter
Gee, Lisa, I haven't been in a gay bar for years. How about an update - what's it like? See any hotties?
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 2:52 PM By Grisha
Peter & Lisa: Hey - let's the three of us do a "Pub Crawl" in the Castro on New Year's Eve. It'll be for "Research Purposes Only".
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 7:39 PM By ross foti
As I have written in the past, if in any way my graphic posters caused physical, psychological and emotional problems to children, I would not hesitate to take them down forever! I would like to reiterate again that, in my 18 years of pro-life service, 99 percent of the people who are against my graphic posters are pro-choice or have had an abortion in the past. These people hate to see, with their eyes, the cruel and violent results of an abortion, which they know in their hearts, is cold blooded legalized murder. So, they purposely use the children as an excuse to go against my graphic posters. Also, I wish these people who are adamantly against my graphic posters would have, at least, a little concern and compassion of the victims of abortion that are on my postures. I do realize that these people are carrying hatred, bitterness, and anger which they will not let go of and are in a deep state of denial and in need of our prayers. I really wish these people would, somehow, re-channel their energies to crusade against pornography, which is bringing our nation down to its knees. Now, the fruits of pornography are fornications, premarital sex, unwanted pregnancies, divorce, child abuse, child molestation, child prostitution, child porn, abortion, homosexuality, alcohol and drug addiction and transmitted diseases. Lastly, let us work together to get our country back to God’s laws. If we do this and we are successful, the pre-born babies would not need our loving service and there would be no need of graphic postures anymore.
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 7:40 PM By John L. Sillasen
Heaven is the addressee. The sins cry out to heaven for vengeance. The blood of Abel cried out to heaven for vengeance. It is the way creation is created. Vincenzo, the "love" of homosexuals is disordered and is not actual love. There is godly love, there is brotherly love, there is erotic love. Erotic love is for man and wife. Brotherly love is expressed as self sacrifice for the benefit of others. Godly love is Jesus. Homosexual love does not even rise to the level of erotic love, due to its inherent disorder, ie its opposition to nature. God has judged all things opposed to nature to hell. The sodomite has one option for Heaven, and that is to turn away from sin. Jesus will preach and teach to sinners, but will not take them to heaven unless they are rid of their sins. Such a state can be found in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Very simple procedure ... the hard part is contrition, which is humility, the opposite of vanity. Remember that sodomy is the consequence of turning away from God.
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 9:10 PM By Lisa
Grisha,
THE FOUR SINS CRYING TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE
Willful murder (including abortion)
The sin of Sodom.
Oppression of the poor.
Defrauding laborers of their wages.
http://www.catholic.org/clife/prayers/sin.php
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Posted Monday, December 03, 2007 10:04 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, there's a reason they call it a "crawl"; that's what the serpent does in those pubs.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:58 AM By Grisha
John L.: Snakes don't crawl, they slither. I suspect the term "Pub Crawl" is a Britishism meaning that at the conclusion of it one is so intoxicated as to not be able to walk upright without assistance.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 12:52 PM By tom
Some of the meaningless platitudes above are used to defend indefensable positions. For instance,"God is Love".From this truth, it is error to distort its profound meaning.It means that Almighty God ALWAYS loves you BECAUSE He ALWAYS hopes that you will repent of your sins,make a sincere act of contrition,with firm purpose of amendment,and seek Sacramental Absolution.This is the eternal positive will of God. This glorious concept,"God is Love" has been perverted by many to mean that God automatically forgives sin--He just hands it out,so anything goes.It reduces the Sovereign of the Universe to an easy going slob who doesn't care about His laws,by which He distinguishes forever for us the difference between good and evil. The notion that God can be indifferent to His own decrees,is repugnant. And that the Church welcomes all sinners is also true because we all are sinnersBut the glory of the Church is the return of REPENTANT sinners who have accepted the Grace of forgiveness through contrition and resolve to reform their lives.Without contrition,the is never forgiveness.Not to accept these truths is to exclude one's own self from the Church even if you spend most of your time in St Peters Basilica. God cannot err or be decieved.Today,sophistry,by which words are manipulated in order to change their true meaning is rampant. Trying to fool God can only get you to Hell. Someone tell me that this is not the doctrine of our Church. Let me say again of committed sins----no repentance,no forgiveness,no exceptions.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:59 PM By ross foti
Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 2:55 pm by ross
Tom, you hit the nail right on the head in regards to forgiveness. No repentance, no forgiveness, and exception!!
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:16 PM By ross foti
As I have written in the past, if in any way my graphic posters caused physical, psychological and emotional problems to children, I would not hesitate to take them down forever! I would like to reiterate again that, in my 18 years of pro-life service, 99 percent of the people who are against my graphic posters are pro-choice or have had an abortion in the past. These people hate to see, with their eyes, the cruel and violent results of an abortion, which they know in their hearts, is cold blooded legalized murder. So, they purposely use the children as an excuse to go against my graphic posters. Also, I wish these people who are adamantly against my graphic posters would have, at least, a little concern and compassion of the victims of abortion that are on my postures. I do realize that these people are carrying hatred, bitterness, and anger which they will not let go of and are in a deep state of denial and in need of our prayers. I really wish these people would, somehow, re-channel their energies to crusade against pornography, which is bringing our nation down to its knees. Now, the fruits of pornography are fornications, premarital sex, unwanted pregnancies, divorce, child abuse, child molestation, child prostitution, child porn, abortion, homosexuality, alcohol and drug addiction and transmitted diseases. Lastly, let us work together to get our country back to God’s laws. If we do this and we are successful, the pre-born babies would not need our loving service and there would be no need of graphic postures anymore.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:40 PM By John L. Sillasen
Snakes crawl, not by using legs, but by using the "joints" of their bodies. Watch one and you'll see for yourself. Why would you want to be so intoxicated, especially in public, and especially in a gay bar? Remember it is a mortal sin to intentionally place yourself in a situation where you'd not be able to resist temptation to grave sin. Tom, seems like your subjecting love to hope ... God's love is eternal, whereas hope passes away. Exceptions to committed sins: Martyrdom ... of course, the act implies the other two conditions.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 5:14 PM By John L. Sillasen
Also, tom, recall the "sin against the Holy Spirit", which is not forgiveable. Yes, the Church welcomes all sinners, but does not offer all sinners the Sacraments.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:32 PM By tom
The pain a child might suffer seeing graphic posters of abortion may be very real.But such pain may be theraputic and helpful to that child's salvation if it teaches the horror of the murder of the unborn.And why not turn our sympathy to the innocent baby as he or she suffers the pain of a steel curette being shoved into its helpless body ,tearing off its limbs. Or the pain and horror of a chisel-like blade is used to empty the contents of the baby's skull,and and seeing that child die as its dissected brain cascades into a bucket on the floor. This is the work of savages and does not belong in a just society.This description may make you vomit. It should! Now where are the idiots who will quote, to support their own agenda ,the biblical phrase,"Judge not,that thou may not be judged.".Anybody who does not make negative moral value judgements on those who submit to or perform these acts shares in their savagery and deserved condemnation. Or will we hear that"God is Love",again? No contrition,no forgiveness, no exceptions. The contrite,repentant penetant is welcome in the Church,always.However,going to Church with this unrepented sin on your conscience gets you nowhere(except hell). Judgemental,is it not?And ,correct.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 6:47 PM By tom
JL: I do recall the non forgivable sin against the Holy Spirit.But no one has ever told me exactly what constitutes the meaning of this phrase.Please, tell me what you think it means.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:25 PM By ross foti
John and Tom, I have been reading some of you letters, and, if I may say, I am very impressed with your knowledge of your faith and your sincere love and devotion to Church of Jesus Christ,the Catholic Church. Both of you and a number of others on this web site have been spreading the true gospel of Christ with no compromise. Your letters are informing more people to the truth then you think. Keep up the good work.
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Posted Tuesday, December 04, 2007 7:38 PM By John L. Sillasen
The unforgiveable sin is an important phrase, not one to dismiss. Refusing the grace of God, would be one way of getting at it. Scripture is full of tales explaining how some folks refused to humble themselves before God. They had other agendas. The contrast between such people and those who turn from their sins is plain. Also, on savagery being the nature of those who abort unborn babies ... it is the opposite: Savages don't institutionally do that, but civilized governments do it. To me it is obvious that they are sacrificing human life to some idol ... call it a belief, or ideology, or whatever ... it is a purpose they cherish or fear more than human life, and more than God. The anti-christ will rise up, and it is hard to envision a savage taking this role. Although his liuetenants will include the "beast", which may make abortion seem trivial -- right now, people opt for abortion for the benefit of wealth; but it could turn to opting for abortion to avoid unimaginable savagery committed on the general public. China has been doing that, aborting to avoid punishment by the government.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:32 AM By tom
JL---I think you are right.Savages do not know the evil of their ways.But abortionists and their patrons know about and intend the abortus' death and that the death of the aborted baby is the direct object of their wills. And perhaps even referring to the victim as an "abortus" is inappropriate because it tends to dehumanize.A better term is baby,or infant,or child. And Ross, I am happy to see you refer to the Catholic Church as the Church of Jesus Christ,as opposed to the Church in which Jesus Christ "SUBSISTS".
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:08 AM By Elizabeth
Ross,
I am very happy you are contributing to the posts on this website so that people will see you are a faithful Catholic who wants to save babies and not some 'wacko' !!!!!!
I've been praying for you and Father McGuire to come to a resoluttion about this sad situation.
Has the Archbishop gotten involved at all????
Know that you will have many people with you in spirit if not in person on December 27th...
God Bless.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:22 AM By Grisha
John L.: Don't worry! I haven't been that drunk since 1979.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:50 AM By Vincenzo
John Sillasen wrote: "the "love" of homosexuals is disordered and is not actual love." This is an extraordinary judgement ... and surely is the product of a disordered, unnatural theology. How can two men, or two women, loving each other in a lifelong committed union, sharing aspects of philo, agape and eros, not be expressing authentic love? I'm sure even the Bishops, Cardinals and the Pope would have to disagree with Mr Sillasen on this one ... read Benedict XVI's encyclical letter Deus Caritas Est, and let me know how homosexual love does not fit this mould! Your hate-filled bile is revolting in the extreme, and is true sodomy [since all respected scripture scholars seem to concur that the sin of Sodom was not homosexual sex, but inhospitality] - and your judgements are the epitome of inhospitality.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:51 AM By George
Grisha: There is always today. You know what they say about Barber shops and haircuts.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:01 PM By John L. Sillasen
Grisha, I've never been so drunk that I couldn't walk ... uh, wait, let me take that back. But, I had to learn how much I could hold, and that was at an early age. I actually stopped drinking in 1974, and stayed that way for at least three years. Since then I have never been that crocked, and rarely even get toasted much anymore. I haven't even bought my annual bottle of whiskey this year ... just hanging with the suds.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:17 PM By John L. Sillasen
Vincenzo, you've got quite a mix there. That hospitality rap is a good one; yeah, the mob wanted to rape the three angels of God ... guess that's what inhospitality means in the gay community. I don't see that that is not what the gay community continues to want to do, to rape that which is holy. I looked through the encyclical as you suggested but did not see where sodomy is a path to God, or has anything to do with love. Can you cite the passage? As for labeling me as what you confess to be, this is what St Paul says will happen, that truth will be turned on its head. Jesus saves souls from sin by helping the sinner turn from the sin. Indulging in sin is not going to deliver any souls out of the flames.
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Posted Wednesday, December 05, 2007 9:46 PM By Georgia
Vincenzo: I believe you got your verbs and adjectives misplaced. You stated (Since all respected scripture scholars seem to concur that the sin of Sodom as not homosexual sex but inhospitalty) The correct wording would be "scripture scholars respected by honosexuals seem to concure --------"
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 2:06 AM By Vincenzo
John Sillasen wrote "the mob wanted to rape the three angels of God" ... well, if the sin of Sodom is homosexual rape (and I'm not at all convinced that it is), then so be it. Any rape is vile, sinful, disordered and unnatural. It is unloving in that it is not consensual, and traumatises the victim. Using this to claim that the story condemns loving, consensual gay sex is quite simply absurd ... I still want to know who the victim of consensual loving gay sex is ... surely if there is no victim, there is no sin? Georgia, pray tell what it means to concure? Incidentally, I seldom [if ever] mix up my verbs and adjectives.
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:24 AM By tom
Anyone---Aquinas taught that morality in human behavior is derived from man's nature under the rule of natural law which was ordained by God,the author of nature. The human body has organs each of which has an ordered purpose. To assure the functional integrity of those organs, nature provides certain inborn tendencies (appetites,pleasures) to fulfill the ends(finis operis) of those organs. To pervert the use of those tendencies to produce an effect other than the effect intended by nature ,denies the ordinance of natural law,which,in turn,defies the ordinance of God,the author. Accordingly,I will attempt to illustate what I mean,using the gastrointestinal tract as an example.Gluttony,the last time I looked,was a grave sin.Why? Because the natural purpose of eating is to feed the body nutrients to sustain it. A pleasure(appetite) is attached to eating in order to assure to use of the alimentary canal for its natural end(finis operis). A glutton eats for pleasure and self-induces vomiting in order to eat more for pleasure alone.The issue is not that he does not get nutrition(fasting can be virtuous)but that his act of self -induced vomiting frustrates the natural purpose of the appetite,and the organ involved.So if a hypothetical person named Francois,were to freqent an elegant French resturant,order pheasant under glass and when it came to his table proceed by lowering his pants and inserting said pheasant into his rectum as an alternate method of nutrition,he sins gravely,even if he were to do this in the privacy of his own room. I have only descibed this senario for the purpose of illustrating a principle. But,feel free to apply this principle to any other forms of behavior.
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 7:02 PM By Linda
Sodom & Gomorrah in modern times has become So Damn Gay morrah. The church profiled in this article has gone from J.C. to P.C.
Homosexuals won't be happy until everyone says what they do is OK and they don't care if they take us all to HELL with them as they worship their Phallic Sex God.
The homosexuals in this church would rape Jesus if he walked in the door! Talk about a seared conscience.
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 8:21 PM By John L. Sillasen
Vincenzo, St Paul, who was educated in the Third Heaven to preach and teach the Gospel, and faithfully did so, says that men laying with men is against nature, and of course a grave sin against God. Consensual by two people: What about consensual with God? Like Cain hiding from God in the bushes after murdering Abel ... God knows, and called him out. God knows and is calling out the sinners who are hiding like ostriches ... Nothing sodomists do makes any sense. They flaunt the unnatural consequences of their sin as if it is good. But it is heinous. What the gay agenda is reaching out to do is to hook those who refuse to turn from their sins ... St Paul says that sodomy is the consequence of sin. In other words it is hell on earth.
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:19 PM By Vincenzo
Dear John. St Paul is not Jesus Christ. I personally follow the Gospel according to Jesus Christ, not the Gospel according to St Paul. After all, women no longer remain silent in Church, or wear mantillas. In fact, St Peter, the first Pope, was rebuked for his false teaching in saying that a Gentile should first become a Jew [through circumcision] to become a Christian. So these early Christians often got things wrong, were rebuked by each other, and had to use reason to figure things out. In addition, they were by no means always right. For example, St Paul thought that Christ's return was imminent ... and taught that it was a weakness to get married, and one should only get married as a last resort, as a means of preventing sexual temptation and sin. Do you uphold this as Truth? If not, kindly don't selectively quote St Paul ever again!
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:28 PM By Vincenzo
Dear Tom, kindly state the natural purpose or purposes of sexual intercourse. It seems to me that the highest purpose of sex is the union of two that they may become as one. And for this to occur, what matters is that the two love each other, and then the sex cements that love, the mystery of sex somehow infusing God's grace into the couple that they may cleave together as one. Now surely it doesn't matter whether the penis enters the vagina, the mouth or the anus of the other [in fact all three seem equally designed to provide a warm, damp and thoroughlly pleasant receptacle for the penis, and have been used by gays and straights alike for millennia to provide sexual pleasure] ... what matters is that beautiful lovemaking, with the mutual giving and receiving of pleasure, occurs. In fact, mutual masturbation would serve just as well. To deny that sexual pleasure can be good and holy is to deny the consequences of the incarnation of God, and the recreation of the cosmos.
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Posted Thursday, December 06, 2007 11:33 PM By Vincenzo
And then there are the secondary consequences of sex ... like the conceiving of children. Not that all couples can achieve this. Sterile straight couples are not forbidden from having sex. The Church will provide a full nuptial Mass for a woman who has had a hysterectomy to remove cancer, or who is post-menopausal. Why? If the sin of gay sex is that it is not open to the transmission of new life, then so is it for the sterile straight woman - she must surely never enter a sexual relationship, never get married - she must live a life of enforced celibacy ... by your flawed reasoning, that is. Gay sex is as natural for gays as straight sex is to straights. It binds relationships, and is fertile by the love it brings to the couple, helping them to give so much more to the community than if they were forced to live morbid, lonely lives of celibacy. And sterile couples [gay and straight] can adopt the children of straight couples who abandoned their children. Justice demands that gays be allowed to have loving, nurturing relationships, and civil society has realised this. It is the neocons in the churches who are railing against Christ's good news ... but fear not, transformation is taking place in our current times ... thanks be to God! Alleluia alleluia!
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Posted Friday, December 07, 2007 9:31 AM By tom
Vincenzo--re: the natural purpose(s) of sexual intercourse. First of all,it seems to me that your"highest purpose of sex" is an expression of what you would like it to be,as opposed what it is,necessarily.Aquinas taught that the natural purposes of sexual acts were multiple,the first of which was procreation.Intercourse is in accordance with this intent provided no positive means are used to frustrate its generative purpose.The second purpose of sexual intercourse,per Aquinas,was to"allay concupiscence".The term"concupiscence" is derived from the latin word "concupiscentia" meaning a "desire for worldly things",which in turn was derived from the term Cupido the Roman god of love which was the word in latin for the Eros,the greek god of "sex". These are terms derived from two precise languages,latin and ancient greek,into the sloppy language,english."Love", "sex",and "natural" are among the many terms in english which are used to mean anything the user wants them to mean.External genital structures ,per se,denote their use and purpose,by their anatomy..To Aquinas,to use the pleasure of sex acts in any context as an end in itself, is "disordered".Now, I will use this sloppy english and carefully use a term with multiple suppositions in the same statement,using the same license you and others use to support your personal conclusions. In my view,homosexuality and homosexual acts are natural.They are natural to all societies,races,civilizations throughout recorded history.The debate in which we find ourselves engaged has been going on for as long as man has kept records,and there is no reason to suppose it will end since some humans are naturally homosexual.But the term "natural" in this thesis,does NOT mean "normal". As I use the term "natural"also applys to cancer,leprosy,malaria,schizphrenia,AIDS,heart attack all of which are "natural" but hardly"normal".Disorders and disease have occured and will continue occur "naturally" since the fall of Adam and Eve.
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Posted Friday, December 07, 2007 4:23 PM By ross foti
Vicenzo, as you know, homosexuals have finally won the right to receive domestic partners’ benefits. Now, they are seeking the status of marriage for gay unions, which is illegal, ludicrous, violation of God’s law, the natural law, and a ruthless attack against the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman.
Well, in order to receive legal status, you have to qualify. Could two men or two women produce a human life biologically? Could our society that depends on population replacement continue to exist if monopolized by homosexuals?
In reality, gay unions are negative to our society. Their perversion of sex only contributes to dissipation, corruption, and sexually transmitted diseases to our society.
Our government must not bow down to the homosexual demands for legal status of marriage and benefits. It would be like legalizing child pornography, child prostitution, bestiality, and drugs for any use.
Lastly, homosexuality is not genetically acquired. It is an acquired habit, a vice like alcohol or drug addiction.
Instead of the homosexuals seeking for undeserved marital status and benefits, they should be seeking out a cure for their uncontrollable addiction to perverted sex. Organizations like Exodus International and Courage San Francisco have had a lot of success by using therapy and religion to cure many homosexuals of their perverted addiction.
Instead of catering to hardcore radical homosexual demands, let’s try to encourage and help the homosexuals who with a sincere heart want to be cured.
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