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Published: November 19, 2008
“I pick and choose”
California’s First Lady says she’s ‘a Cafeteria Catholic’
“I start every one of my days praying,” says Maria Shriver, wife of California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. “I go to church every week. I went to Catholic schools my entire life.” But, says Shriver, when it comes to Church teachings, “I pick and choose… I think I’m probably a ‘Cafeteria Catholic.’”
 Shriver’s comments came during a lengthy interview on the Washington Post’s video blog ‘On Faith,’ taped during an Oct. 22 women’s conference at the Long Beach Convention Center. Shriver, wearing a rosary around her neck, was interviewed by Washington Post columnist Sally Quinn and co-host Jon Meacham of Newsweek. Portions of the interview were posted Nov. 17 on “wowOwow,” a web site that says it is “run and written by Lesley Stahl, Peggy Noonan, Liz Smith, Joni Evans, Mary Wells, Sheila Nevins, Joan Juliet Buck, Whoopi Goldberg, Julia Reed, Joan Ganz Cooney, Judith Martin, Candice Bergen, Lily Tomlin, Jane Wagner, and Marlo Thomas.”
Shriver and the governor are members of St. Monica’s parish in Santa Monica, and she told Quinn and Meacham during the interview, “My pastor (Msgr. Lloyd Torgerson) is a huge part of my life.” But her closeness to her pastor, her regular church attendance and her Catholic education don’t seem to have discouraged her from taking positions distinctly at odds with the magisterium. “I have a dispute with a lot of the Catholic Church,” said Shriver in the interview. “Even though I consider myself a Catholic in good standing, I disagree with a lot of the teachings of the Church.”
Shriver spelled out some of her disagreements: “I don’t believe that if someone’s divorced they shouldn’t get Communion; I don’t believe that people who are gay shouldn’t be accepted into the Church… I’m pro-choice, I believe women should have that right.” She also said “women should have a larger role in the Catholic Church.”
What she does like about Catholicism, said Shriver, are its teachings on “compassion” and “social justice.”
Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:38 AM By Dan
Sounds like Maria is well-formed in the catholicism of the LA Archdiocese, and her husband as well.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:52 AM By Sister Act
I post no defense of cafeteria-style consumerism in the domain of religion, let alone in the domain of the one true Faith. *Haeresis*--the original Latin term for heresy--means to select in the style of pick-and-chose--and, yes, as we cannot help but notice, just this pick-and-chose style is the style that has been adopted by Maria Shriver and Arnold Scharzenegger as they rummage through the teaching of Holy Church picking and choosing what suits them--and, let us not overlook it, what suits their "reference group" (to borrow a term from the sociologists). It is absolutely impossible, however, to take the *catholon*--the whole of the Faith--out of Catholic Christianity. Catholicity is the true form of Christianity--nothing less. The whole of the Faith,
then, can never be parcelled out according to one's own measure. The attempt to do so, already moves one away from the living Faith to dead faith--from whence (grace shunted) one devolves from dead faith to infidelity itself.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:11 AM By BJ
'I consider myself a good Muslim but i reject its teachings'. How stupid does it sound when you apply it to any other religion?
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:36 AM By Ron
Sounds more like a "good chance of goin' to hell catholic" to me. But maybe that's just me. God Bless.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:59 AM By donj
Like maybe 50% of "catholics", not really the views of a person of FAITH but rather the views of a person of OPINION.
Once our opinion trumps a clear teaching of the Church we have lost our faith and don't even know it. Needs our prayers.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:22 AM By Fr. M.P.
One simple rule: Cafeteria catholic = heretic. Choosing your own opinion rather than God's revelation is worship of self opinion, pure relativism. Notice how these blind souls always consider themselves "good" (or "devout"). You see many of them posting here. Choosing evil is not good or devout - ever. And choosing evil is considered "social justice" and "compassion." Pray for her soul.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:46 AM By JLS
I ran into plenty of this type when I was in college. I was not Catholic, yet I recognized the hypocricy of these kids. The effect of their corruption is to block others who are searching for God, by presenting a false and deceptive imitation of where God is at. They serve to abort the movement of souls towards God.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:52 AM By R. G. Marcarelli
The Israelites also picked and chose what they wanted rather than follow God,s law. They received God,s wrath. Some so-called believers, believe they know better than the Almighty..We should pray for their enlightenment.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:55 AM By Joan of El Cajon
Gee, I wonder how much of Maria's "cafeteria Catholic" pillow talk has influenced her husband to embrace anti-life, anti-family positions since he became California's governor.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:09 AM By Central Valley
"Compassion" and "social justice".......What about the salvation of souls? Protection of life from the moment of conception? Sadly Shriver is the typical product of catholic education on the twentieth century. Cafeteria Catholic, Social Catholic, they liek the title Catholic but don't care to live the faith,
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:14 AM By Verdun Arnaud
Iknew your uncle Robert Kennedy.The people in New Orleans need your support.Many catholic churches are being closed unneccesarily so Good catholics are being persecuted.Also Fr. Roy Bourgeois needs help. He is about to be exccommunicated for no other reason than he wants to apply the gospels to his daily life. Thanking you in advance. Time is of the essence.!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:24 AM By Canisius
Is anyone really surprised by this at all. She is the living example of a true liberal Catholic, whose conscience is not formed by the Truth of the faith by their own "feelings. Of course she is a big fan of social justice, but has no use for Truth.. If her pastor was a true pastor he would ban her from communion until she confesses, but we know thats not going to happen.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:27 AM By john Zakharia
I have seen Ms. Shriver in Santa Monica at Saint Monica's Church which is the home of Cafateria Catholics and Pro-Choice Catholics. And the home of the Gay and Lesbian Support Group.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:48 AM By Lori (convert)
Well, divorced people ARE allowed to receive Holy Communion as long as they are not remarried or having relations with someone else other than their divorced spouse (which The Church still considers to be their spouse).
Maybe the reason she is a cafeteria Catholic is because she doesn't KNOW the actual teaching of The Church?
We need to pray for her. She is in the public eye, and this is an example of what others see---they think all Catholics are like her.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:55 AM By The original Frank
As quoted above, the First Lady's "disagreements" regarding divorced and gay people aren't disagreements with Church teaching, but with opinions stated by many commentors on these CCD pages. If she's a cafeteria Catholic, I'd be happy to pick up a tray and share a table with her. We could still disagree politely on the Pro-Choice issue.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:14 AM By Tim L
Am I missing something here? I am a divorced Catholic who joined the Church going through divorce. Not once was I denied communion simply because I was divorced. It is my understanding that if I had remarried without an anulment then I could not recieve communion. Just because you are civilly divorced, does not mean you cannot recive the Blessed Sacrament. This is only reserved for if you are not in a "State of Grace". And this is truly up to you to determine in your heart. If you do not do this properly, you will recieve His judgement on your day.
As to not accepting gays in the Church, again am I missing something? It is my understanding that we accept all people to our Church and that the only thing that is asked of each of us is to abstain from intimacy with our partner out of the bonds of marriage. Marriage being defined as between a man and a woman. As a heterosexual male, if I engage in sex with a woman, I am not in a state of grace, and as above, should not receive communion. Perhaps Ms. Shriver should consult with her priest as to the proper norms of the Church. If she is as involved as she said she is, then she should know all of this. I would certainly agree that she is a cafeteria Catholoic, I just wonder what small cafeteria she is "Eating at"?
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:20 AM By Ted
Typical Kennedy, isn't she? No rules apply to them if they disagree. Her pastor, instead of being her buddy, should correct her and require her to learn and abide by the teachings of the Church.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:40 AM By Miguel
Pray for your own salvation. You cannot be half Catholic. Please leave the church. You are setting a bad example for others. This is exactly what the church needs to purge. Downsize sell property whatever. The schism is near. We need to get back to the true church and stop condoning sin and bad behavior. You are only fooling yourself Maria.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:44 AM By Don Ragsdale
Maria Shriver shows herself to be misinformed about what the church teaches-gays in the church, divorced receiving communion, etc. She is absolutely wrong on the abortion issue. Life is a gift of God. Life starts at conception. Life is human if the parents are human. The killing this innocent life-this gift of God-is abolutely wrong and an extreme offense to God who authored this life. The Church that Jesus founded is our teaching authority and those who oppose it, do so at their peril.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:45 AM By Dan
Sigh...a perfect example of today's Catholic education. The Modernist attack or as Belloc simply put it..Spirit of Anti-Christ has done a good job in attacking the formation and education. My dear friends..it is going to call for perserverance, sacrifice, fasting and most of all prayer for all the souls whose consciences have been blinded by bad education these 40 some years...even if it means losing your friends, family members and acquaintances you have known all your life..(trust me. It has happen to me as well. ) I know i am doing God's work. I am angry but a righteous angry. Let us fight the good fight. as Fr. Frank Pavone has said, " our media is our streets."
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:49 AM By Sawyer
Will the bishop of Sacramento or Los Angeles do his duty and set Mrs. Governator straight?
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:22 AM By Greg
It's very discouraging to me, a Catholic who has come back home after a long absence, to see such a blatant disregard for Catholic teaching on such fundamental issues as abortion. We do not have the moral compass to pick and chose what is right and wrong. Christ left us His Church which is the pillar and bulwark of Truth to lead us into Truth. If we disagree with Church teaching on these issues we must ask ourselves why does the Church teach these things and form our conscious around these teachings. It is this egotistical and self centered attitude by so many Catholics that has left the Church with very little support. It is not the sex scandal that has caused the most damage but cafeteria Catholics steering the flock down a very dangerous path.
Relativism is the Devils best friend.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:22 AM By Laurette Elsberry
And I'm sure she is another Obama-ite.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:31 AM By Trinity 3
Unfortunitely we have alot of these "so Called Cafeteria Catholics" in our church, even the non-catholic Christians have that problem in their churches too, but they would be called "lukewarm". We are infested with them, they are worst than cancer, they are spreading, why do you think Obama won. It is these types of people in leadership that are bringing down our country and our church. Even the devil knows Jesus but that does not make him good. What appears to look good may not always be the case, look at what we have to deal with.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:34 AM By Humberto
Maria should “pick and chose” a new religion. It’s a shame that Catholics in the public eye do so little to promote their faith in the proper way. Would they dispute this with Jesus? Then why do they pick and chose what Our Lords established Church (Mathew 16:18)
Tim 4:3-5
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
I pray for all Catholics that they may return to the teachings of the Church. Check your pride at the door!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:40 AM By Fulminator Ski Ven
If, with full knowledge and consent, Mrs. Terminator persists unto death in the promotion of mortal sin, she is very likely to be toast, as they say.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:05 AM By Jim
It is not the divorce or a divorce that stops a person from being in union with the Church. Everyone has the choice to get on board.....active is the key...and you can not be and not be at the same time.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:06 AM By Richard
Wow! Shriver's a cafeteria Catholic! This is news?
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:19 AM By Judy
Maria.,The catholic church does not and never did say that divorced Catholics could not recieve Holy Communion. Now if you remarry without a anulment then you may not have the sacrament of Holy Communion. Secondly, gay people are accepted into the catholic but must remain celebate. On the life issues the church does not allow taking of any human life for any reason especially the innocent unborn.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:24 AM By James
I believe that the Church was set up by Christ to discipline us to Holiness and giving us the choice of being disciplined or giving into the carnal mind which leads us to corruptible
souls. I also believe that it is stated in the Word that it is hard for the rich to enter the Kingdom and people like Shriver are a good example of that.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:25 AM By Tanya
It's clear that Maria S doesnt pray for light to see how picking and choosing is not really catholic. Why does'nt she join some other denomination of "Christians" that agree with her point of veiw, opinion? There's a ton of them out their in good ol' Californication, pick and choose!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:33 AM By RealCatholic
The Catholic Church does not teach that divorced Catholics may not receive communion. It is re-marriage without a declaration of nullity of one's previous marriage that prevents you from receiving the Eucharist (because you are in an adulterous relationship, still seen as married to your spouse until proven otherwise). Also, homosexuals are not prevented from being accepted into the Church any more than heterosexuals living in a state of unrepentant sin (having sex with someone you're not married to). You are still a part of the Church but each or our sins affect the whole Church. If you live a chaste life and repent when you fall (just like anyone else who struggles with this sin), nothing prevents you from being Catholic. How can Ms. Shriver go to Catholic schools her "entire life" and yet be this ignorant of Church teachings? Statements like these from so-called Catholics are what make people hate Catholics and misunderstand our beliefs and views. It's time to dust off your Catechism of the Catholic Church and start reading. You'll be surprised how much what people believe about the Church is simply wrong.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:36 AM By St. Christopher
Simply put, Maria Shriver is no Catholic, and she has apparently taken a good Catholic, her husband, and, like Eve, induced him to follow his human weakness and sin. No Catholic can believe in what Shriver states she believes in and be a "Catholic in good standing." Of course, where are her pastor, and her bishop, and the Vatican, in responding to these outrageous statements. She should be publicly rebuked (after an invitation for private counseling with a chance to confess and do public penance) for causing scandal in the Church. Big Chance that this will happen. In fact, I will bet her pastor and bishop get a real charge about seeing her in the pew each Sunady and line up to give her communion. Shriver is no Catholic.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:39 AM By Humberto
Whats wrong with the Catholic Church today? Its the people that are not right with the Catholic Church. You cant pick and chose. The Church has had the same recipe for 2000 years and now these modern day cafeteria catholic want to change the recipe. I pray for unity of our Church.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:41 AM By ssoldie
Yes, a typical cafeteria catholic,and there are so many in the Church,and the Church has asked for this kind of thinking.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:43 AM By Rose
Why doesn't she find another church? The church isn't a democracy! Hello, you are helping destroy the church you claim to belong to. Please go start your own religion, as you seem to think you know better than God!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:44 AM By OneoftheSheep
I liken Maria to the blind man. Until she encounters the Risen Jesus and sees the light, Maria will be blind to the beautiful truths of our faith.
I cannot imagine meeting Jesus at the Last Judgment and telling Him that I myself have determined which truths He taught that were worthy of obedience.
I feel very sorry for all of her teachers, her pastors, and those who know her who have been unable or unwilling to impart the entire truth of our faith to her. Father, forgive them, Father forgive her. To receive the Eucharist is to say yes to Jesus, otherwise, she should cast the part of the host aside which she disagrees with!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:44 AM By June V
Yes, Maria you definitely are a "cafeteria" Catholic. We should all pray for you. You are a heretic.....definition meaining opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine. Perhaps you should seek out the Episcopalian Church, it is more in line with your thinking. I am sure your grandmother is turning over in her grave. But then, the Kennedy family have not exactly been role models of Catholic practice, except for Rose.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:57 AM By manolmontana
Let me give you a piece of my mind, Maria. If you can't be agreeable with some of the Catholic Magisterium's teachings then you are not just a cafeteria catholic but "half-baked". Your "pick and choose" standing is rediculous!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:03 AM By Michael II
Another example of a Catholic in name only. How long will the silence go on from the Local ordinary to let policians and such high figures say things like, I'm a good Catholic, but...
Maria you make a good But Catholic. We need Faithful Catholics who follow the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Maria please info yourself about what it is to be faithful, nowbody else is doing it around you or your superiors. Go out and buy a Catechism of the Catholic Church and look up Paragraphs like 898 & 899 and truly pray to God in the morning and ask Him if you are following His will. If not repent and BELIEVE!!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:09 AM By Life Lady
She seems to be a Cafeteria Christian. I have a hard time with even calling her a Catholic. I don't care if she did attend every Catholic school every day of her life, she is not practicing or living a Catholic life, so, I would not consider her a fellow Catholic. No wonder her husband is talking and doing what he is doing. What has happened to the Church that these kinds of people are allowed to call themselves Catholic. I think she and her husband should bow out, and leave the Church intact. They are causing a scandal.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:12 AM By Candice
“I don’t believe that if someone’s divorced they shouldn’t get Communion." Ok, it's very possible for someone to be divorced and still receive Communion. "I don’t believe that people who are gay shouldn’t be accepted into the Church." Ok, the Church accepts many gay people, including many who are priests and bishops too. "I’m pro-choice, I believe women should have that right.” Ok, everyone has the right to choose. For example, how can you vote without the right to choose? “Women should have a larger role in the Catholic Church.” Ok, be more active in the Church and your role with be larger.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:20 AM By Fr. M.P.
You will notice how those who deny dogmas of the Church always claim that they are following the Church teachings of "social justice" and "compassion" as if Church teachings are contradictory and they picked the best one. Even the devil quoted Scripture, so abuse of the Church teachings is nothing new for his followers.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:21 AM By Jack P
"I consider myself... "
That is testimony that she is her own church, and her own goddess. Her claim to being a Catholic in good-standing is false.
But what else could we expect when our shepherds so adamantly persist in their failure to uphold truth in order to appear to be of-the-world. They have polluted light with darkness, and remained silent.
Zechariah 11:15-17 The LORD said to me, “Take again for yourself the equipment of a foolish shepherd. For behold, I am going to raise up a shepherd in the land who will not care for the perishing, seek the scattered, heal the broken, or sustain the one standing, but will devour the flesh of the fat sheep and tear off their hoofs. Woe to the worthless shepherd who leaves the flock! A sword will be on his arm and on his right eye! His arm will be totally withered
And his right eye will be blind.”
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:32 AM By Linda
The reason you are a "Cafeteria Catholic" althought you may go to church... you don't KNOW the faith!
“I don’t believe that if someone’s divorced they shouldn’t get Communion." Truth - if you are divorced, you may receive communion.
"I don’t believe that people who are gay shouldn’t be accepted into the Church." Truth - the Church accepts many gay people, they ask you not to "act" on being gay. That is the sin.
"I’m pro-choice, I believe women should have that right.” Truth - everyone has the right to choose. The church is against abortion - your faith, you should follow.
With all things... there is a right choice and a wrong choice.
“Women should have a larger role in the Catholic Church.” Women have a LARGE role in the Catholic Church.
Just because you have the Kennedy name, doesn't mean you know everything. Get your facts straight before you down the Catholic religion.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:51 AM By OneoftheSheep
Can she afford to buy a copy of the Cathechism of the Catholic Church? Can she spend some time reading it? Does justice belong only to those we can see, hear and touch? Or, might social justice also apply to the innocent unborn in the womb who Maria is ignoring?
"He who would find God must accept discipline." Sirach 32.14
"The sinner turns aside reproof and distorts the law to suit his purpose." Sirach 32.17
"He who hates the law is without wisdom, and is tossed about like a boat in a storm."
Maria, the storms are a-coming! Cleave to the Church that you may board the Ark and not be left drowning in your own opinions.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:54 AM By Rachel
I am reminded of the fact that Catholics are Americans the way ethnic minorities are Americans - i.e., they're not. Maria is a member of that political family that is the only one so far to produce a president. Why? Probably because they separate law and morality, American style.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:02 AM By Dennis B
Suffice it to say that all those who posted comments know what Catholicism is; Maria does not. I would not like to be her pastor or bishop when the Final Judgement takes place. They'll find out what vincible and invincible ignorance mean.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:14 AM By joan
Pray for all the Kennedy's. Joe Biden and Ms.Pelosi and the Many people who still do not know Jesus. This is obviously true by the very fact that they could vote for abortion. Abortion is anti-Jesus.Very sad that Maria and Caroline still do not know Jesus Christ, the Lord of Life. God is Love and He said to ALWAYS choose life.....always!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:23 AM By The original Frank
I don't think the charge of "heresy" is appropriate to our First Lady. A proper heretic obstinately and publicly stands
by his false claims; I don't think this applies to this fine Catholic woman who honestly states her opinion in an
interview, especially when she identifies it as her own opinion, not God's. Honesty about one's struggle with doubt is,
IMHO, a clearer indication of deep Faith taken seriously than pious recitation of orthodox dogma.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:30 AM By MarkF
What's missing from all of this is how the cafeteria Catholics have separated personal holiness from social responsibility, as if the two have nothing in common. What is the single biggest cause of poverty in children in this country? Being raised by a single mother. Lack of personal holiness leads to all the other problems we have in the world - poverty, war, drugs, violence, etc. In America I would wager that there is more human suffering due to the lack of personal holiness than due to economic suffering and that more people suffer from spiritual problems like depression and lack of purpose than from lack of nutrition and housing. The liberals will tell us that we are hypocrites for insisting on "meaningless" things or "victimless sins" like adultery, birth control, homosexuality, divorce, etc. It is just the opposite. It is the liberals who are hypocrites who obsess about problems that are out of their hands largely - nuclear war, the environment, etc, while the sin in their own bodies and in their own family are considered to be irrelevant. They will harp on and on about the sins of other people, yet not their own. Holiness and social action are not opposed to one another, but it seems to me at least that all repentance should start at home, soul by soul, and from that core we act in the world. Maria Shriver is well intentioned, but just a poorly formed Catholic who doesn't seem to know what it is that she's against. However, her bishop should counsel her and forbid her communion until her conscience is fully formed.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:36 AM By Sharon
1. Maria, rosaries are not to be worn as jewelry. You should know that.
2. Maria, you are wrong. Divorced people CAN receive Communion. Its if they remarry that they can't.
3. You wrote a book for children who are grieving over the death of a loved one. What about the death of an unborn child? That should give you pause.
Yes, you are a cafeteria Catholic at best. Satan finds our weaknesses and gleefully finds that hole in our souls. You need to expound this evil from your thoughts, words, and deeds.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:38 AM By BETH J. FRANK
You are so right, Maria! Thank God most of us believe like you so elegantly expressed. Blind loyalty to any religion is not Jesus-like. Pro-choice for woman's rights, Gay rights, etc. is the true way of Jesus! STOP the HATE...
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:41 AM By manolmontana
I agree with you Joan....they (Maria and Caroline) and all the other Americans claiming to be catholics, of course they know Jesus, but their understanding of Jesus is very distorted. They love to parade and tell (in their own mouths!) that they are catholics but look at their deeds. Hmmmm, another example of "lip service". "Follow what I say but don't follow what I do". Very typical for nominal catholics in name.
God bless them!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:44 AM By michael g. batcho
Maria said: "Shriver spelled out some of her disagreements: “I don’t believe that if someone’s divorced they shouldn’t get Communion; I don’t believe that people who are gay shouldn’t be accepted into the Church… I’m pro-choice, I believe women should have that right.” --- but . . . Maria SHOULD know that 1. divorced people ARE ALLOWED to receive communion . . . and 2. gays ARE allowed and encouraged to belong to the Church and to participate at mass . . . and 3. and about "women should have that right"? which right is Maria referring to? the right to kill their pre-born babies????? Maria . . seems totally ignorant of The Catholic Faith and opperates on pseudo-assumptions which are either simply false or morally untenable by any believer who actually believes.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:49 AM By Mare
Irish Catholic here, and never could stand the Kennedys, they all seem above the law, God Bless Rose, you just cant tell a Kennedy anything they know it all, I never trusted any of them, with all the heart ache in that family you would think they would kling to Our Lord OH, No they only cling to themselves Amen and I say Amen(Mother was a Baptist)
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:58 AM By Sister Act
True, Maria Shriver "picks and choses" various tenets of the Catholic Faith, but nowhere is there any public notice that
the CCD editor of this website's posts has reserved to himself the right to march into a post and pick and choose what sentences he would like to see published and what sentences not. I do not object in principle to such an editing policy (a host of posts cry out for it), but in the case of my post at 12:54 AM, my entire initial point was removed, thereby distorting my on-the-one-hand/on-the-other-hand comment. In the meantime, the CCD editor leaves the most
garbled, incoherent, and spiteful posts untouched.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:01 PM By Elaine
I have one suggestion, agreeing with the Holy Father that a loss of cafeteria Catholics will make the Catholic Church stronger: As the sign says, "The Episcopal church welcomes you!"
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:18 PM By Elizabeth
Real Catholic and Judy are 'RIGHT ON'!!!!
The only thing I can add is on the abortion issue.....
Isn't she happy her grandmother Kennedy didn't believe in abortion?
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:36 PM By jean
Maria doesn't know her faith. So called "Cafateria Catholics" are not catholic. She is a pro-abortionist. It is so sad that so many persons in the public eye claim to be catholic, make statements that are not true.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:05 PM By Bridget
Actually, "cafeteria catholics" are protestants.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:06 PM By shane
I suppose all that can be said to the viewpoint of the "cafeteria catholic" is that they have clearly taken the easier position - it is far easier to engage in behavior that you prefer than what you don't prefer, or to hold an opinion that you prefer to hold...the problem of the "cafateria catholic", then, is that they really haven't got any faith at all, unless you count their faith in their own judgement. It would then follow that their judgement must be universally true, or universally irrelevant.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:07 PM By AL Quammultus2
Ms Shriver's comment on the Holy Catholic Church regarding “compassion” and “social justice” is flawed, these are second on its list of things to do; the Church is Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic that is it has been sent out on a mission which is redemptive and not soup kitchens.
Not to demean the importance of feeding the needy which has to be done and Christ calls us all to do this, but it is not the prime directive- which is to go out and teach all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son , and Holy Ghost.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:16 PM By KR
Truths will always be greater then opinions.
Opinions don't hold water because they change with the direction of the wind.
Embrace and defend your catholic faith...learn the magisterium - the teachings of the church...
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:17 PM By MAJRDAD
Mare: Right on and luv your sense of humor - I can relate because my paternal grandparents were both Southern Baptists - Dad converted at age 16!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:23 PM By Deacon Joe
Let's hope and pray that her pastor (Msgr. Lloyd Torgerson) who she claims is so important to her is at least making an attempt at fraternal correction....for the sake of both their souls.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:34 PM By Cyril Methodius
Hey Maria, How About being a Cafeteria-American... pick and choose. Why not believe in elections, but not a free press, and believe in free enterprise but not private property? You could say you believe in federal funding for education and then say you don't believe in paying taxes. It's just nuts. Maria Shriver is NO Catholic whatsoever.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:38 PM By Linh V.
Oh, God does the same. When the end time comes, he will pick and choose too. It's all up to us to be chosen or not.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:44 PM By Vin
Poor Maria. She bought the whole "let's think of ourselves first and God second" message of the new age. Why she goes to church and (God help her) communion is my question. There are so many other denominations that also worship Jesus without His restrictions. Go, Maria, go!!!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:45 PM By Trinity 3
I guess we shouldn't be surprised by this news. Do we not have anything better to write about? Hey about that wonderful priest in South Carolina who told everyone in his church that if anyone voted for Obama, that they need to go to confession. Right on! I love this priest, he is such a holy priest and I appreciate his message, I hope more priests would stand up and speak out for the faithful and the church!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:54 PM By bknd2anmls
If I have to choose between who I think is the wiser of the two between Maria Shriver and The Magisterium of the Catholic Church, I think I'll go with the Magisterium.
In the end, it doesn't matter what Maria Shriver thinks. She won't be the one to judge us when we die. That will be left to God and He is represented by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:58 PM By Shalon
Well, at least Maria has the guts to say it, which is more than I can say for the Bishops of the USCCB. As far as I'm concerned, with the exception, they are all Cafeteria Catholics, Bishops,Priests and Human Beings.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:02 PM By Vin
Maria is a perfect example of what having it all can do to your perspective. She thinks she can pick and choose what she and others can and still call herself a "Catholic". Imagine! To me it is the proof that evil is dominant in this world for us to use our God given freedom to do what we "ought", that is to choose good over evil. Ask those who have suffered over the milleniums because they would not do what comes so easy to Maria, deny the word of God.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:04 PM By ssoldie
As for me I will pray for Msgr Lloyd Torgerson.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:26 PM By Marilyn
She's not a Catholic. Why don't people who don't believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church just start their own religion. Let us be, please.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:43 PM By cnmarrelli
When the bishops step out of the shadows and publicly announce to the world that these high-profile persons are NOT Catholic because they have stepped outside of the Church. When that happens our bishops will again be apostles of Christ, and the self-styled "Catholics" would be so embarrased they would admit to themselves that they are not Catholic and would move on.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:47 PM By ally
St Christopher, what you wrote at 9:26 I second! Well stated! Maria, I think I will become a cafeteria Californian. I think my property taxes are too high so I won't follow the law to pay them. I will obey the laws against driving while intoxicated but I "feel" others have the choice to drink and drive if they so wish. Would your hubby say it is okay for me to "pick and choose" my laws to obey?
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:47 PM By garvan
It's bad enough to have people like the Schwarzeneggers pretending to be Catholics, but it's it's even worse to have people like Msgr. Torgerson of St. Monica's masquerading as a Catholic priest.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 2:53 PM By Darren
Wow. The way she said it makes me think she's never investigate the authentic teaching of the Church. Divorced Catholics can go to to communion, unless they are remarried in a civil ceremony. When was the last time you heard of a gay person being kicked out of the Church? When? Well, being pro-choice-I'll leave that to her Archbishop to deal with.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:16 PM By betty
I don't know why you post this kind of statement. I think all or almost all of us recognize this as the same kind of baloney that we have heard about a million times already. Reading it is just a waste of time. Responding to it is an even greater waste of time.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:19 PM By The original Frank
I like MarkF's comment pointing out how attention to social responsibility divorced from personal holiness contributes to poverty. On this point I agree entirely. With the Gospel accounts of Jesus as our example, we see that there is no genuine personal holiness without attention to social justice. They are like conception and death: you never get one without the other because they are two sides of the same thing. Mark's specific examples of homelessness, depression and malnutrition in fact are BOTH spiritual and material problems which cannot adequately be addressed by a (traditional) spiritual-only or (progressive) material-only approach. So it seems a little odd to complain "[Liberals] will harp on and on about the sins of other people, yet not their own" as if this page weren't already full of traditionalist rants about Other Peoples Sins, or indeed as if that very sentence didn't exemplify what it seeks to condemn.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:28 PM By Dr Craig Lowe
Amazing. . . She is lost. She should either walk in the faith or leave. She is a liberal secular progressive trying to tell us she knows better. I say excommunicate her and let her migrate to a liberal church. You can not be catholic and be pro gay, and pro abortion.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:36 PM By Phil
Hanging a Rosary around your neck does not make you Catholic, Maria, any more than saying "God bless you" when someone sneezes makes you a Baptist. Much less one "in good standing". What a pile of garbage. WHY don't these "cafeteria Catholics" simply leave the Church?? They aren't really Catholics, anyway. The answer is simple: They want to destroy the Church. It's as simple as that.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:47 PM By PT
There is NO excuse for any moderately educated "Catholic" to not know their faith. That is pathetic. Hey, Maria, it's called the "Catechism." You're a multimillionaire, you can afford to buy one. Look up divorce, homosexuality, and abortion. You might want to take a look at what it actually means to be a Catholic while you're at it. When it comes to the Sacred Deposit of Faith, there is no room for having an "opinion" that differs from Church teaching. If you don't accept it, you're not a Catholic. To be Catholic in reality and in practice is to accept both the authority and the teachings of the Magisterium. If you don't, you aren't Catholic. It is as simple as that, and all the "progressive" theologians, priests, "Catholic" educators, and web-site posters in the world cannot change that basic fact.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 3:59 PM By Ron
I will add Ms. Shriver to my prayer list. She is a very mixed up woman, who unfortunately is going to confuse many other people given her public status. There is no such thing as a "Cafeteria Catholic." You are either a Catholic, meaning you fully accept the teachings of the Catholic faith, or you are not Catholic. It really is that simple.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:10 PM By Mary Elizabeth
Woe to you Maria Shriver. The Kingdom of God only comes whole, not in part. If you're unwilling to accept it in its entirety, you're unfit to live in its final splendor. God have mercy on your sloppy soul.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:02 PM By Mark from PA
I am thankful that Maria goes to Mass every week. That is more than many Catholics do. I agree with her on some things but not abortion. Abortion is murder. I think Elizabeth made a good comment there. It would be wonderful if someone could "convert" Maria in that she would have compassion for our precious unborn children. I have actually never heard one word against gay people spoken from the pulpit or in 12 years of Catholic school. This was never mentioned. I think only a minority of Catholics hate homosexuality and gay people.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:18 PM By Dan G.
"WHY don't these "cafeteria Catholics" simply leave the Church?? " Phil, a very good question, IMO. I would rather they stay because it is fortunate to have the mission field walk through the doors each Sunday. One of these Sundays God may get through. I would put more blame on the preachers and teachers at St. Monica's who have helped form the lasse faire Catholicism of Maria, the Governator, and countless others. In the context of the culture wars, some battles will be lost, but some will be won as well. What it truly sad are church leaders who fight for the enemy.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:50 PM By Central Valley
Fear not, I am sure Cardinal Mahoney will set up some private meetings for Arnold and Maria so he can show them the true faith...............Yea right......Her husband wants to overturn the voice of the state on gay marriage and force it back into the courts and now we have Maria running her ill informed mouth. And all we have in Los Angeles is Cardinal Mahoney who will remain silent. God help us
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:01 PM By Victoria
Dan G., Until you have been elected Supreme Pontiff, you do not speak for GOD and HIS Church; and therefore, it is not for you to say who should, or should not, be a Roman Catholic. However, I do agree with you about what goes on at St. Monica's which, unfortunately will not change because of all the wealthy and powerful parishioners who rule there.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:30 PM By Ray'C55
Another "pro-choice, misguided catholic(small c intentional). Choice means preference and it is saying the same thing twice such as,"The NY Giants are the best team in football because no team is better. sorry Californian's about that ) They are missing the essential teachings of the Church, the difference between right and wrong, good & evil. Abortion is an infallible teaching of the Church an if her pastor Msgr. Lloyd Torgerson did not get his message through to Mr. & Mrs. Governator then he has failed his calling.."Pro-abortion and Catholic, you don't have that choice".
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:36 PM By Trinity 3
PT I love your post! PT what I learned is that alot of people lack spiritual sensitivity, that means that they lack the understanding of what is sin, then their inner-self, subconscious freely starts to embrace secular views and have no understanding of what sin is anymore, they lean towards their own understanding or of other influences, sin becomes their guidance and keep them blind. (Confession helps heal this, but how can someone confess something they don't feel repentant about? Humility and their free will to want to please God, His graces can help, we can pray for them as well for this). Instead of them growing in spirituality with God, they actually grow more spiritually blind and embrace only what they comprehend. They become slaves to sin. They stop growing, that is their own punishment for their lack of humility and obediance. The sad thing is, when one part of Christ's church suffers, then they bring the rest of Christ's church down with them. This can be corrected though, we hold hope for that.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:41 PM By JLS
I don't see how any of these government cafeteria catholics are really ill informed. Mal informed, yes, but not ill informed. I wonder when we'll clearly see some top government member who is possessed by a demon. Does history record any such clear cases? Rasputin supposedly was, although he was only a defacto government official.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:50 PM By ED
I hope, that you change your ways or it will be to late when ever you face your maker. Maria you and your husband are full of it. God Bless you both and change is not to late.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:05 PM By Maggie
In this great year of St. Paul, look at 2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4. As St. Paul very succinctly comments, " "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths."
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:09 PM By M!
You people from California, really need to repent!
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:35 PM By cjo
DAN HAS IT RIGHT [COMMENT #1] WELCOME TO THE CATECHISM OF THE 'LOST ANGELES' ARCHDIOCESE, WHERE "NEVER" TO WE CLARIFY CHURCH TEACHINGS !
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 7:42 PM By Maggie
In this glorious year of St. Paul, it is worthwhile to read 2 Timothy 3:16 to 4:4. St. Paul clearly states: "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths."
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:03 PM By Phyllis Sawyer
I am sure this has been said, but it is no wonder Ms Shriver does not agree with church teaching........she obviously doesn't even know what accurate church teaching is. Lord help us all!! With Catholics like her we need no other opposition.......
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 8:15 PM By Sister Act
In reply to St. Christopher: You write: "Simply put, Maria Shriver is no Catholic...." Not all things that are simply put are correctly put. In view of Maria Shriver's baptismal rights under canon law; in view of her specific baptismal right to the name *Catholic*, there is an alternative--and correct--way to put the matter. That formulation, St. C., would run something like the following: Simply put, Maria Shriver is a self-contradictory Catholic. With dispositive evidence, we are free to form such a judgment (so long as we avoid such speech-sins as detraction), but the right to judge
*entitlement to a baptismal right*--the right to judge entitlement to the name *Catholic*--belongs only to episcopal authority and only episcopal authority. You, St. C., as a layman, have--unilaterally--usurped this jurisdictional authority. So what, St. C., if you have won the denunciation contest staged here, you've done so at the cost of violating the Church's own (ad intra) speech ethics. Maria Shriver? We can say no more--but also no less--than that she is a self-contradictory Catholic.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 9:23 PM By Pax Christi
If Pope Maria had a chance to use her journalism skills to edit the Catechism to her liking, she'd get "The Gong Show" treatment for the insipid sound bites that'd be all that's left of it.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 10:29 PM By Jim
Why is it that those who consider themselves "cafeteria Catholics" only choose the desserts.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:19 PM By Georgina
Instead of telling our fellow Catholics to get lost, we should be trying to help them return whole heartedly to the Faith. It really slays me how so called, Devout Catholics, are willing to throw up their hands and write of those who, for whatever reason, have turned into, what they used to call, "Lite-foot" Catholics. Mother Angelica is famous for saying, "We are all called to be great saints". Yet I read comment after comment on this site & post after post of people quoting scripture, which they seem to know in their minds, but not in their hearts. WE have so much to learn about kindness and understanding. May I suggest you all STOP quoting scripture and start reading and feeling the words in that scripture.
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Posted Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:35 PM By Eileen
Maria Shriver believes that all women should be able to murder their unborn children if their not wanted or inconvenient. Maria doesn't bother herself with the trivia of their painful death because she's too busy being drawn to the teachings on compassion! Mr.and Mrs.Terminator need to repent and prepare their souls because Our Lord Promised "I'LL BE BACK!"
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:03 AM By sois
her dad, Sarge, now w/Alzheimers was a daily Mass-goer.
Her mother,Eunice, now ill, would be so sad to hear Maria's comments.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:00 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Cardinal Mahony gladly accepted the money for those horrible bronze doors from Maria and Arnold, and their names are posted on the so called honor wall. You can see this for yourselves by going to the CRCOA Website(I can no longer give the URL on these pages!).
The Rogmahal was built with a lot of BLOOD money! Rupert Murdoch, Richard Riordan, Gregory Peck who is now buried in the crypt, Wasserman and others. Go see for yourselves. Pray for Mahony's soul!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:24 AM By Paul Courfeyrac
In reply to Ray'C55: You claim that if a pastor "[does] not get his message through to [say, one particularly prominent couple in his parish], then he has failed his calling." One need only read Georges Bernanos's _Diary of a Country Priest_ to see the falsity of such a claim. Contrary to the French protestant Jean Calvin, who taught the irresistability of grace, Holy Church, as Bernanos understood, has always recognized that God's grace is something that can be resisted. A culpable failure to cooperate with God's grace, for Catholics, can never be imputed to the parish priest, however remissive he might be otherwise (say, in his doctrinal formation, holiness, etc.) No, God's proffered grace is something that can (God forbid) be resisted. The correlation (fine priest = fine parishioners) is only very roughly a correlation; it is not an equation, not even approximately. The notion that it is or should be an equation (or near-equation) is an error that derives from a semi-Calvinist concept of the clergy as first of all called to be effective educators. If they are not effective educators, it must mean--since according to Calvin grace is irresistable--that the priest has "failed in his calling." Holy Church, for her part, has rejected this error. The primary vocation of the Catholic priest--without scanting his educational pastoral--is to act as Christ's instrument in co-offerering with Christ the sovereign Priest the one and same Sacrifice as Calvary except now offered unbloodily to God the Father. If a neo-modernized parish, such as Santa Monica's, wants to recover from its malaise, the only way to do so is to recover true worship and true doctrine.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:27 AM By Kenneth M. Fisher
Arnold and I assume probably his wife Maria take Communion in one hand. We have pictures of this in our files! And Torgerson does nothing about it!
I can't wait to to read the comment from the libs on this site about what is wrong with that and I am being judgemental!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:20 AM By Patty
Maria is a cafeteria Catholic alright - she doesn't even know that a divorced person MAY receive communion, unless they are living with someone or if they are remarried without having received an anulment. In those two cases, they should not present themselves for Holy Communion.
She's also wrong about what the Church teaches about homosexuality. The church DOES NOT CONDEMN homosexuals - the church does condemn the homosexual lifestlye - BIG DIFFERENCE. Get with it Maria. Learn your faith before you start spouting off about what you disagree with. Take a lesson from Nancy Pilosi's ignorance on church teaching....
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:40 AM By gogo1970
Maria (and many other catholics) should pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance. Maybe then she will discover the truth. I will certainly continue to pray for her and our nation! How can our nation call abortion "Pro-choice?" The aborted babies are NEVER given a chance.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:03 AM By JLS
Yep, 2Tim3,4 give me a great idea. There's money to be made in brokering deals between itching ears and unsound teachings and myths. Oh wait, I think this idea has been taken ... sounds like movie theaters and politicians' offices.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:18 AM By Jake
Maria Shriver is just another American who has reformed Catholicism to fit perfectly with Liberal American culture, which is the child of Anglo-Saxon Protestantism, especially its more liberal forms (Unitarianism, Universalism, Quakerism, the Social Gospel, etc.). Don't expect the Bishops as a whole to bother to try to correct this scandal of such a highly Catholic spewing trash. They too are fully Americanized, which explains their glaring liberalism that marches in general accord with liberal Protestantism.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:31 AM By Osie
Maria sounds like a very good Christian but she is a "fallen away Catholic" which is the same as a "cafeteria catholic"
To be Roman Catholic means to be in obedience with the Magisterium of the church which is the teachings of the Pope and early Fathers of the church. John Paul II and Benedict have stated that they are not out to win over multitudes of people but good and faithful ones. Those who make statements such as being a "cafeteria catholic" and those who oppose the teachings of the church and especially those who speak out about it to influence others only hurt the church, so why would they consider themselves Catholics. I'm not picking on Maria because certainly our American Bishops have let the church down. Eight years ago i waited and prayed that our Pastors would speak out about the evils of abortion but just a small few did, and when they did members walked out. So for eight years people stewed with the idea that social issues were more important. Of course they are important but didn't Jesus say "you'll always have the poor with you" to open individual hearts, but murder inside a mothers womb---abomination. This year truly broke my heart to see that so many "cafeteria catholic" went so blatently against God and the church.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:42 AM By Trevor
Maria,
This is a direct quote from Pope John Paul II that will thwart you or any other 'Cafeteria Catholics' so called right to pick and choose teachings.
"It is sometimes claimed that dissent from the magisterium (church teaching) is totally compatible with being a 'good Catholic' and poses no obstacle to the reception of the sacraments. This is a grave error..." — Speech to U.S. bishops in Los Angeles, Sept. 16, 1987.
Please reconsider these errors of your conscience. Please take the time to pray a nine day rosary novena to Our Lady of Good Council, with the intention to be filled with truth.
The Church needs people who are in the public eye to step up and give good witness to our Faith. When people in the public eye witness in a way that does not echo our Faith, it is devastating to the whole Church. What you say about our Faith will be heard by thousands of people. You have the responsibility on your shoulders to be a good witness, and for this you need to be in communion with all Church teachings.
There is no room for the lukewarm. This is your eternal soul at stake. You are either for God (and follow all Church teachings), or against him. There is no in between.
GOD BLESS!
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:02 AM By Mike F.
Folks, let's be honest here. The blame should first and foremost be placed on bishops who are more managers than teachers and shepherds. And the priests by and large follow their lead. Should we be surprised when indulgent parents raise brats? Should we be surprised when shepherds who are afraid to offend, who are afraid to discipline, raise ignorant, self-absorbed "Catholics."
Dear Bishops, there is never an authority vacuum for long. Something else will (and has already) fill it.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:26 AM By Fulminator Ski Ven
It looks like I did not win the denunciation contest being staged here. It appears that I am not living up to my most recent screen name. :( I still like the word, though. I am going to stick with it for a while.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:46 AM By ralph
Who am I to judge anybody? Nobody! What anybody chooses to do and belief is up to them and their God. My problem with ms. shriver is she is attacking the teachings of the Church and she is not even updated, "know the Catholic Religion before condemning it!" Divorce people can receive Communion and gay people are welcomed in the Church. God made us all and we should always respect life, As for your pastor Msgr. Lloyd Torgersonone he must be diocesan. Remember, pray for each other. One day we will all answer to God and how we lived on Earth and at that time no one will be judge except that individual. God will not see what is politically correct but how we followed His teaching. God have mercy on us!
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:12 AM By MarkF
Isn't the real question what will her pastor and bishop say and do? She has publicly said that she thinks the Church is wrong on matters of faith and moral and says that she still goes to communion. That's the very definition of scandal. She, by her words and actions, is encouraging others to do this. I keep hearing it said, and I believe the holy father said this back around 1970, that we need to have a smaller but more faithful Church. And maybe it won't have to be that much smaller. There are a lot of fallen away Catholics out there in Protestant communities who left when the Church replaced the word of God with leftist politics, colored felt banners and watered down teaching. A lot of them would come back to a invigorated Church
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:27 AM By Dick
Sounds like this "cafeteria" might give her a good case of post-death "eeeeeeeeeeeeee" (and I don't mean e-coli)
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:26 AM By Edward
"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:29 AM By Gregory Solman
So-called "cafeteria Catholics" are not a members of the Church in good standing just because they think they are. In this case, Ms. Shriver doesn't even understand the menu. Divorced Catholics are admitted to Holy Communion; only those divorced and "remarried" without anulment are objectively living in a state of adultery because Jesus Himself established the permanency of marriage. Second, the Church hold homosexuals to exactly the same standard as all other unmarried Catholics or any age or inclination: They must remain chaste to be in good standing with the Church. But, since she supports the murder of the unborn as a "choice" she evidentally hasn't thought any of this through. She should know, though, that all churches, Catholic and Protestant, were firmly against birth control and abortion before the first part of the 20th Century. The Catholic Church is simply the only one that refuses to bend with every wind of social change. In fact, that's one of the ways you can infer that it is the true Church established by Jesus Himself (Matt 16:18). If Ms. Shriver doesn't want to be a part of it, no one is forcing her. But she shouldn't be trying to influence others to sin.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:14 PM By Fulminator Ski Ven
Whoa, Eileen, I like the comment that you posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2008 11:35 PM. You seem to be pretty cool.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 12:30 PM By Hope
Something needs to be clarified here. Why is that Catholics themselves, or other religions blame the Catholic church for HER teaching? Hello, out there, the Catholic Church does not create or make their own found whimsical rules for the Catholic Church. Don't any one, at this point, knows or understands that the Catholic Church teaches and repeats as a parrot JESUS CHRIST' OWN words? Come on cafeteria Catholics, by being a cafeteria you CANNOT call yourself Catholic AT ALL. Jesus wants for his teachings to be the WHOLE and not PICK AND CHOOSE!
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:04 PM By Dai Yoshida
So, if I pick and choose which laws I would follow, I would be a cafeteria American? Is that what you call criminals these days?
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:12 PM By Alice Allison
Why doesn't Roger Mahoney close the cafeteria?
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:20 PM By Alan
So Maria Shriver is a "cafeteria Catholic". Aren't all the Kennedys? Until local parish priests and their bishops have the spiritual courage to teach the faith, the American church will lose more people, close more schools, close more of the few convents that are left and have half-empty seminaries.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:36 PM By matteo
st. monica pray for us...
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:48 PM By marianne
Maria,I suggest that you start living your Catholic faith more seriously by following the TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS of THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. If you don't want to then why bother being called CATHOLIC???? Just to comment very briefly on 1 of the topics you mentioned was abortion. The Church teaches that abortion (murdering of the unborn/or born) is an intrinsic evil and is MORTAL SIN. Also, the Church states that anyone who votes for a pro-choice candidate carries the same sin on their soul as the doctor who performed the ABORTION. Maria, why would you want to say you are Catholic if you are supporting the killing of Jesus' creation, the unborn child?? You seem to be lost/confused in your thought pattern. Your thinking perhaps has become too influenced by the world and thus convoluted!!! Please Maria, change your ways and confess in the sacrament of Reconcilation that you support abortions, homosexuality,etc. and that you will not support these evils any longer (amend your life as it is stated in the Act of Contrition) so you can be freed of these sins and perhaps MORTAL-deadly-sin. Abortion, etc. are MORTAL SIN!!! Peace of Jesus and Our Lady, Marianne
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 2:01 PM By Donald
Those who call themselves cafeteria catholics are really CINO catholics--Catholics in name only. There is no such
thing as a freedom of choice in religion---you are not permitted to say that 2 plus 2 is 5 so why is there
freedom to pick and choose in religion?
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 2:50 PM By MarkF
I just wrote a letter to the pastor of St. Monic's asking him do something to stop the scandal given to the Church by Maria Shriver. I asked him to help her form her conscience but in the mean time to ask her to refrain from communion. The name of the pastor is Msgr. Lloyd Torgerson and the address of St. Monica's parish is 725 California Street, Santa Monica, CA 90403. Don't call them. Letters count much more.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:21 PM By Laurie
Thanks for the candid comments about the extent of your fidelity to the Church Maria but this is not something we did not already know.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:22 PM By Bevy
Absolutely amazing - doesn't it make you wonder why she doesn't go to something OTHER than the Catholic Church - what's the Bishop of her diocese have to say about her comment. B'c EVERYTHING she says is without compassion and social justice!!! imo!
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:42 PM By KATHIE
IF YOU DON'T BELEIVE IN ALL THE TEACHINGS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH YOU ARE NOT A CAFETERIA CATHOLIC....YOU ARE NOT A CATHOLIC PERIOD.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 4:24 PM By Phil
I think Maria Shriver along with her "Terminator" husband need excommunicated. What a disgrace for calling themselves 'Catholics' !
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:25 PM By KR
To Edward - Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:26 AM
Are you the one judging? God will ask us what did you do to stop the abortion? How did you help Maria? Did you encourage her or discourage her? Maria needs to be corrected before others will be blinded by her blindness.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:57 PM By Trudy
OH!!! POPE KATHIE HAS SPOKEN!!!!
I wonder how many catholics would be left if they all listened to Kathie??? What ever happened to, "Let He Who Is WIthout Sin", etc, etc??? I'm with Mark though. Someone is needed to reach out to Maria. Unfortunately, anyone with enough money can get a FREE PASS from Cardinal Mahony. And Marie and Arnold are Really, REALLY Good Buddies With Mahony.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:12 PM By Paul Jerra
Mark F., let me tell you what happened a few years ago. A friend of mine was in despair and, as she was driving around, she saw St. Monica's. She pulled over and parked, with the intention of speaking with a priest. As she walked onto the property, she did see a priest, sitting in a chair, reading a newspaper. When she asked if she could speak with him, he said, "Do you have an appointment"? She answered that she was very upset and needed to talk with someone. The priests answered, very curtly, "Didn't you hear me? I asked if you had an appointment. You can't speak to anyone without an appointment"! With that, he went inside the rectory and she drove off in her car. She said she later learned that the man (I won't call him a priest) who was so cruel to her was the pastor. It was a shameful episode on the part of this man and the church he represents. But I am certain that, if my friend had produced a fat wallet, there would have been no issue about an appointment. Money Talks, Especially In The Roman Catholic Church.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 6:16 PM By JLS
When I was becoming Catholic ... and even at the official moment of Catholicization, I intently and consciously committed myself to believe the whole Catholic faith, even though there was a lot of it I had not learned yet. In other words, when one believes God, then one does not reject parts of Him. It is possible that when learning God, there are parts of Him that one does not recognize as such, but this is why we study. Not to do so is slothful, a sin. Ignorance in the case of such a one as Mrs Governator or Governator is phony as a three dollar bill. Attitudes are not that difficult to read, and hers is in no way genuine. Those people neither care what Catholicism is nor desire to achieve it in their lives. It is a political tool for them to use, like their other toys.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:21 PM By JPeterman
California's First "Lady" is a phony and a faker just like her husband. She's not a Catholic, period. End of story.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:00 PM By Anne T.
The Catholic League website has the answer to Catholics like Kmiec and Maria Shriver who support pro-abortion Obama. The article on their site is "I am Catholic, Staunchy Anti-Racist and Support David Duke". It is "tongue in cheek", of course, but shows how wrong it is for pro-life people or Catholics to support pro-abortion candidates.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:10 PM By Maryanne
What Ms. Shriver fails to realize is that it really doesn't matter that she thinks she is in good church standing. This shows her pride and ego. You cannot be a faithful Catholic if you do not accept all the teachings of Holy Mother Church. After all, these are the teachings of Jesus who is Lord. I want to hear her tell Jesus when she meets him as Just Judge that she could pick and choose which teachings of His she had to listen to. Shame on her priest for not counseling her. After all Jesus said, we will be liable for the sins of others if we do not try and set them straight. And as to her priest, Jesus says that to who more is given, more is expected. Let's pray for their conversion.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 8:13 PM By Harvey
Just another politically correct liberal hypocrit. I hope she and the Governator get selected by Obama to be Secretary of Energy (news rumors) just to get both of these liberal democrats out of Californeea! Then hopefully we could get a truly conservative and honorable Governor.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:26 PM By JLS
Back a few years I would attend St Monica and I would see the pastor, then Fr. Torgerson. The impression I had is expressed well in the post by Paul Jerra. But, Paul J., that is not a representative Catholic Church. There is a greater wealth of Christ in Catholicism than can be imagined ... ask and you shall be answered, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you.
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Posted Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:53 PM By Janek
Gay rights this womens right that, abortion rights, enough already there is no such thing and stop saying Jesus does not judge he DOES, you silly liberals. Like the statements above if you don't like the rules of the Holy Roman Catholic Church please by all means leave it, there is plenty of room in the Episcopal sect since thousands of their former members are coming home to Rome. Shame on you Governer you were once a true Catholic and conservitive but look what your wife has done to you.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 7:22 AM By Mary
She is part of TYPICAL Liberal Kennedy clan, They are all invincible and on their high horses! She puts the teachings of the Catholic Faith second to her pro-abortion, pro-homo Hollywierd crowd she hangs with, OPRAH !
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 8:56 AM By Maria C
JLS praise God you heard your calling to become Catholic. Praise God you obeyed. God bless you always my friend. Unlike those who are cradle catholics, some always seem to walk the path that Judas walked and they keep betraying our Lord and His beautiful church. This faith is a gift and many tend to take if for granted and lean on their own understanding. There are consequences to disobeidance! In humility, keep walking in truth!
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 9:00 AM By Almond Milk
Bridget you are right they fall in the catagory of protestants. But more dangerous, at least other protestants left the church but these individuals stay and give us a bad name.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 12:00 PM By MarkF
Perhaps it's just because I only came back to the Church about a year ago that I'm still sort of naive about how weak many are in their understanding of the faith. When I called St. Monica's to get their address I asked the receptionist if there was a storm brewing over Maria Shriver's comments. She said that she hadn't seen any. But isn't that up to us then to cause that storm? Write letters people. Don't just sound off on here. I read on Damien Thompson's blog that it helps greatly to write brief, succinct and polite letters to Rome, to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. We can't just rail against the watered down faith, we have to act. I am very curious though to hear stories of how hard it's been so far and what obstacles people have run into. On some levels I feel luck that I'm in the relatively solid diocese of Arlington, VA. Yet I hear from the priests that almost all the married couples are on contraception, and how almost no one ever confesses it to be a sin.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 12:03 PM By Victoria
What most of you seem to miss is that Maria is operating on the Realistic Level. She's not saying one thing for show, and then doing another. She's speaking the truth. Looks like you folks either can't handle the truth, or, because you've been living in your Roman Catholic LAH-LAH Land for so long, you don't know what the truth is. You may not agree with Maria, but respect her for being an honest woman.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 1:38 PM By Janek
Victoria first of all yes we are living in our Roman Catholic land as you put it for we are in a Roman Catholic blog site, and second respect her for being an honest supporter of KILLING babies in the womb? Because that is what you are asking us to do, would you respect Adolph Hitler for his being HONEST about his hatred and murder of 6 million Jews and non Jews? Think before you state an opinion like that Victoria.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 1:56 PM By Elizabeth
Victoria,
I do appreciate Maria's truthfulness....
But, I can't and won't appreciate her for calling herself a 'Catholic' in good standing.......
That is NOT THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!
I will continue to pray for her and all the politicians/wifes who have sold their soul
for politician gain.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 2:34 PM By MarkF
Victoria, what is your point? I too do appreciate that Maria Shriver is at leas honest that she's a cafeteria Catholic. That is better than thinking that one's views are the Church's views as Nancy Pelosi does. But what are you getting at? What is the realistic level? Do we accept things that are wrong because they are popular and just give up? We believe that the Church teaches the truth, so if we are faithful to her we are living on the ultimate realistic level. If we give in the prevailing culture we are giving up on one of the three cardinal virtues, hope. I'm living proof of someone's hope. I do not know who prayed for me but someone did. If I can be brought back to the Church, anyone can. So what is it that you're trying to say?
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 3:32 PM By Almond Milk
Elizabeth very well said!
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 5:53 PM By Victoria
Good for you Elizabeth. All we can really do is to pray for each other. Prayers IS The Best Medicine.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 5:56 PM By W. Crawford
Along with a letter to Msgr. Torgerson and Cardinal Mahoney , I suggest cc the letters to the Apostolic Nuncio in the United States ,USCCB, and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome.,. Maria should definitly hear from you as well. .. Isn't it ironic her name was given to her by her parents in honor of Our Lady . Does she really think Our Lady is pro choice (death) ?
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 7:49 PM By JDiscerner
EXCOMMUNICATION! is she not a public figure? does she not deserve to be excommunicated? doesn't the Church say that excommunication is a chance for the person to recant and return to the Father? excommunication doesn't mean you're banned forever, it's a chance for you to w-a-k-e u-p, and shows the public that God is no joke and we mean business.
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 8:28 PM By JPeterman
Typical Hollywood intellectual and moral lightweight: "I don’t believe that people who are gay shouldn’t be accepted into the Church… I’m pro-choice, I believe women should have that right."
Ah gee Maria, EVERYONE IS ACCEPTED by Church, we just don't confirm them in their mortal sins, and a right to choose WHAT Maria? The right to choose to rib babies heads off?
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Posted Friday, November 21, 2008 9:28 PM By JLS
Pope Benedict XVI just gave a speech in which he said that Catholics are not to pick and choose.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:40 AM By Eileen
Victoria wants people to respect Maria Shriver for being an honest woman? Talk about existing in LAH,LAH LAND! Didn't Maria say that she likes the teachings of the church on compassion? How compassionate is a partial birth abortion or a saline abortion? Now, for Maria to be "completely honest" she SHOULD have said, "Not only am I a Cafeteria Catholic who is pro-choice, I am also a cold fish, when it comes to feeling the sufferings of those babies." Now, that would have been real honesty Victoria!
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 1:50 AM By John
The Catholic faith is a package, not a pick and mix. If you don't accept that then you are not a Catholic. The article also says that she had a rosary round her neck. Can someone please point out to her that the rosary is not a fashion accessory?
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:44 AM By Jon
The Catechism of AmChurch.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:42 AM By Janek
Kathie you are right on, it was once said by a Saint, better that there are few Catholics left than many Catholics who do not believe in the faith!!
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:17 AM By mark mitchell
grrrrr, I've had it up to HERE with these elitist, over money-stuffed rad-lib catholics who want to have us recognize & ratify their nauseating "cafeteria-style" catholicism. Here's my emerging conviction: the bishops should PUBLICLY identify these people, PUBLICLY EXCOMMUNICATE THEM, & then (this may sound a tad radical) station ministers of the Eucharist @ their parishes, & when they attempt to approach the Communion rail, gently but firmly DENY them the SACRED SPECIES! I'm really beginning to think that that's the only way to stop (1. SACRILEGE, by allowing these individuals to Communicate, & (2. PUBLIC SCANDAL, which causes much confusion among the faithful--if I'm wrong, please write & tell me where---MARKRITE
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:04 AM By Almond Milk
Thank you JLS for reminding these cafeteria catholics what our Pope said! I hope they listen with their hearts soon before it is too late for them.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 2:45 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Sister Act: You hit the nail on the head. A layperson has no right under canon law to read a fellow Catholic out of the Church; no right to declare a fellow Catholic "no Catholic" in derogation of her baptismal rights; no right to do so in the case of that fellow Catholic being a muddlehead; no right to do so in the case of that fellow Catholic being--as, Sister, you rightly stated--a "self-contradictory Catholic" (indeed, only on the occasion of an excommunicable offense could a self-contradictory Catholic be excommunicated); no right, furthermore, to read a fellow Catholic out of the Church because that person committed a mortal sin; and finally no right to do so when that mortal sin is apostasy (defined by Canon 751 as "the total repudiation of the Christian faith"). The latter might surprise, but for apostasy to have canonical effect, it must, in all strictness, be defined by a formal declaration to ecclesiastical authority on the part of the apostate. In this connection, let's remember: The term "ex-Catholic" is nowhere to be found in canon law; nor does any penalty *latae sententiae* attach to the sin of apostasy--and for good reason too, the gravity of the sin of apostasy notwithstanding. In sum and in (qualified) defense of Maria Shriver against the veritable onslaught against her: Only ecclesiastical authority, not lay vigilantes, have competence to regulate the baptismal rights of Catholics, not least the baptismal rights of "self-contradictory" Catholics.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 4:41 PM By Mark from PA
Excellent post, John F. McGuire. I never liked the custom of "shunning" which the Amish and other groups use. To me it is non-Christian. Better for people to give good example by their own Christian lives. Mark Mitchell, we surely do not want brawls at Mass with fights over who is worthy to receive the Holy Eucharist.
Peace to all - Mark from PA
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 6:35 PM By JLS
Mr. Maguire, nobody posting here has excommunicated Maria Shriver, the imitation Catholic, the anti-Catholic. These abortion promoting Catholics excommunicate themselves. And they are being both discerned as such and labeled as such by lay people. Not only by lay people, but by canon law, and by popes and cardinals. Hopefully, you have read the recent proclamations by these Church leaders.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 6:39 PM By JLS
I should add that, for the Church to provide in Canon Law the "latae sententiae excommunication" for abortion in any complicity, this is one example of how Mother Church protects Her flock from taking on any grounds for secular lawsuits. In other words, the Church desires Her members to discern the character and hearts of others as to whether they reasonably fit the qualifications of Catholic. And Mother Church wants them to be able to do this without incurring a vulnerability to the evil people who would seek to destroy those who seek the truth. This is an example of the "double edged sword" of Jesus Christ.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:16 PM By John F. Maguire
My comment on excommunication as applicable only where excommunicable offenses exist, was made above parenthetically. I did not discuss M. Shriver in relation to the question of excommunication. I agree--and never said otherwise--that "nobody here has excommunicated Maria Shriver"--well, first of all because no blogger here has the power to do so. See Canon 223, section 2: "In the interest of the common good, ecclesiastical authority has competence to regulate the rights which belong to the Christian faithful." As I made clear in my post, and as Sister Act made clear in hers, at issue is St. Christopher's statement, "Simply put, Maria Shriver is no Catholic." What I stressed, as did Sister Act, is the world of difference between (1) St. C's unwarranted statement and (2) the warranted statement that Maria Shriver is a "self-contradictory Catholic". Which is why I made the obvious point that not all "self-contradictory Catholics" are Catholics who have incurred an automatic excommunication. St. C's post, however, supposes just such an excommunication:
"Simply put, Maria Shriver is no Catholic." What's wrong with St. C's formulation? Let's ask a prior question: What is it that is actually said by the Church to persons who are indeed excommunicated if not: You have been cut off from the sacraments of YOUR FAITH. What is not said, JLS, is: You are NO CATHOLIC. The Church is careful to make this distinction; St. C. is not.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 9:29 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Mark from PA: As you suggest, the sectarian or sectiuncular practice of "shunning" (not to be confused with shunning in the evangelical sense of just necessity, i.e., just necessity of differential association) should--as a form of social and psychic brutality--be regarded as something diametrically opposed in spirit to excommunication as envisioned by canon law. This canonical spirit is indicative neither of pagan exile nor "shunning" in the sectarian sense; rather, it is indicative of a solemn, yet always charitable, invitation to reconciliation. ~ I want here to quote the first section of Canon 223 where in my last post I quoted the second section. I read the Canon 223, secion 1, as chiming with your conviction that "we surely do not want brawls at Mass with fights over who is worthy to receive communion." Nor do we want brawls on the Internet over entitlements to the baptismal right to the name *Catholic*. (No intelledtual sloth then: if someone holds a heretical teaching, we must needs point it out carefully and precisely, bearing in mind of course that there is a difference between theological error, on the one hand, and heresy proper, on the other hand.) It is indeed a worry over brawls that in part motivates Canon 223, section 1. Quote: "In exercising their rights, the Christian faithful, both as individuals and when gathered as associations, must take account of the common good of the Church and of the rights of others, as well as their own duties toward others."
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 9:41 PM By Almond Milk
Mark from PA by reading your posts, I have examined that you do not fully understand the fullness of truth. St. Paul has always taught in Holy Scriptures that one is not to receive our Lord if they are in mortal sin. To excummincate someone it is actually done in charity because there are greater consequences to a person in receiving our Lord when one has committed mortal sin, one can actually bring eternal death upon one's soul if they do not repent and confess before receiving our Lord. To excommicate is actually a good way to help the person to hopefully someday come in perfect union with our Lord and His church before it is too late. I hope that we can always have faith and trust in the Lord that people can convert and have a change of heart, but in the meantime we need to help them by charity and keep them away from condemning themselfves to eternal fires if hell. I know that you find this hard to believe but if you reach a higher level of spirituality then by God's graces, would help you understand His plan and His church better. We are always growing and needing to grow in the ways of the Lord Mark. Always, we need to or else become like Mrs. Maria Shriver, confident in her ways. Her ways are not fruitful in virtues because she picks and chooses, there can never be growth in the ways of the Lord in the path that she has chosen for herself. Taste the sweetness of the Lord, and understand that it may not always be what we imagined it to be. His ways are not our ways.
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Posted Saturday, November 22, 2008 9:45 PM By Eileen
Mark from PA, You never liked the custom of "shunning?" Then why did you shun the unborn and vote for Obama?
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:46 AM By JPeterman
JF Maguire, you are correct, only the Church has the right to excommunicate people like Shriver. Shriver uses her fame and a public forum to denounce the TRUTHS of the faith to lead others into sin. We have the right as Catholics to denounce these lies about the faith that this woman speaks. This in fact is our DUTY as faithful Catholics. We are not obligated to sit silently and passively while these public people spread lies about the one true faith.
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:02 AM By John F. Maguire
I take it that it is the inchoate, common-all-too-common apostasy of the ill-considered exclamation ("Oh, I reject all that stuff") to which no automatic excommunication attaches, whereas automatic excommunication does attach to the formally declared apostasy envisioned by the Pontifical Commission's self-declaration proviso, which, as I understand it, was introduced by way of an interpretation of Canon 1364, section 1 ("an apostate from the faith...incurs latae senteniae excommunication"). At least two questions remain: (1) Is this inchoate/formal distinction sound? (2) Is this distinction, taken by itself, practicable in the face of large numbers of apostates who would rather not--and so do not--declare their repudiation to episcopal authority?
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 1:47 PM By R. J. Keyes
In reply to St. Christopher: The question is, Why are you so embittered by Maria Shriver's canonical situation that you would go so far as to claim that California's First Lady is "no Catholic" tout court when you know, or should know, that Maria Shriver has at no time professed "total repudiation of the Christian faith" (Canon 751)?
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:10 PM By Mark from PA
Eileen, I actually discussed voting with the priest that I go to for confession several times before I voted. Actually Obama is the first Democrat that I have actually voted for President. I voted for pro-life Robert Casey for governor when he ran against pro-choice Republicans. I receive voting guides from pro-life organizations that I belong to and also from my union so I take these things into consideration. I consider myself pro-life and I do not shun the unborn. I hope that Obama will enact policies that will be more beneficial to the middle class and lead to further lowering in the number of abortions. I hope that Obama will back policies that will lead to health care for all children and expectant mothers in this country. This is long overdue. I had a very fruitful discussion about this with my priest.
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:27 PM By Anne T.
Mark from PA, I left the Democratic party a few years after they "cut the throat" of the saintly Governor Casey. I could not stomach what they did to him. Then they used his son to get rid of Senator Santorum, a very pro-life Catholic. As one friend of my said, "That's satanic." And his son continues to betray his father and let himself be used.
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:03 PM By JLS
Shunning is advised by St John who delivers the Seven Letters to the Seven Churches, in that he proclaims the utter folly of some churches to explore the depths of the demonic.
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:41 PM By Shar
For those who are "pro-life" and voted for Obama - my nephew put it very well. If you think there was no change for the unborn under Republican presidents, just wait for Obama. There will be change, all right. Even PP has (greedily) admitted that the number of abortions will greatly increase under FOCA - more teens having abortions w/out their parents' knowledge, more babies of the poor killed during government-paid abortions. So much for your compassion for the poor. I guess those poor mothers don't have feelings so they don't suffer from post-abortion syndrome. And maybe poor unborn babies don't feel pain when they are aborted, and maybe they are not suffering from social injustice with no due process as their lives are taken from them. Is that your idea of compassion for the poor? It's not mine. I'd rather help the mother and her baby to "choose life so that (she) and her descendants might live". I sincerely want to ask these pro-Obama "pro-lifers" - what are you going to do now for the unborn to counteract the effect of your vote? Democrats in the House, Senate and White House have not truly reduced the number of abortions through their social and economic policies. So what's your grand plan for justice for the unborn?
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:48 PM By MarkF
Guys, I think you're confusing excommunication with the denial of communion. Excommunication is greatly misunderstood. The real punishment from excommunication is that the person may not take part in the liturgy other than as a worshiper. They may not be a lector, extraordinary minister, or bring up the offeratory gifts. Being in a state of mortal sin bars the person from taking communion until they go to confession. People seem to often have this idea that excommunication is some horrible thing, when really the solution to it is to go to confession just like the rest of us do. In the case of Maria Shriver I don't think there's a way that she could be called a heretic. She's just misinformed and her conscience is not fully formed. That's not the same as if she had developed heretic views in a coherent manner. Heresy is punishable by excommunication. Being misinformed and lax is not. In those few cases where having an abortion leads to the person being excommunicated, that can be lifted by the bishop. But in most dioceses the bishop has granted that ability to the priests of that diocese. I wrote to the pastor of St. Monica's to ask that Maria Shriver be asked to refrain from communion. It's not nearly as much our business if her soul is in jeopardy so much as it her business and the business of her pastor. However, by her public comments she is encouraging other people to stray from the course of love and life, and that is all of our concerns. Oh, Mark from PA, when you say that you had a fruitful conversation with the priest, does that mean that the priest told you that you were wrong but that you did it anyways?
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Posted Sunday, November 23, 2008 9:09 PM By JLS
PA, the middle class is the wealthiest group of almost a billion people in America and Europe beyond any imagination in history. And the abortion rate is still horrendous. Obama could cancel all debt, increase all credit card limits, limit monthly payments to ten dollars no matter the balance, and end taxes::: still the abortion numbers would be horrendous.
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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 6:35 AM By JLS
Adolph Hitler was never convicted by a court of being a mass murderer, either. And Hermann Goebels was not a mass murderer until officially convicted, nor has Joseph Stalin ever been "canonically" categorized as responsible for the murders and tortures of millions of Russians, nor has Mao Tsung ever been convicted by a court in the United States of forcing millions of untold deaths and tortures in China. So, obviously Maria Shriver is as innocent as a dove of peace, since she has not been canonically adduced to amount to a case of inappropriate Catholicism. O woe is me for even suggesting any indiscretion on her part, or that of anyone else in her circle of raving abortion fanatics ... oops there I go again with my faux pas ... it must be a disease which I need treatment for.
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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 11:59 AM By james
I consider myself an ardent admirer of Ms. Shriver's but I don't admire her.
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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 3:07 PM By robin
Sadly,;0( Ms Shriver is an example of many who consider themselves Catholic today. That is what the problem with the Church in America. The USCCB MUST act to crack down on those who dissent with Catholic teaching. The Church does not need dead wood who make their own rules.
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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 3:21 PM By Anne T.
James, I admire your last statement. What she says is like the "tongue in cheek" article on the Catholic League website:" I am staunchly Anti-racist, and I Support David Duke."
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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 4:57 PM By JLS
james, that is understandable, and indubitably so.
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Posted Monday, November 24, 2008 8:17 PM By Mark from PA
No Mark F, the priest did not tell me that I was wrong. I even asked him for his opinion on who to vote for in several races but he didn't have an answer for me. I checked the pro-life guide for some of the people that I was not that familiar with.
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Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:01 AM By Anne T.
Yes, JLS, St. John did shun. It has been said that he refused to go into the bathhouses to take his bath when a certain heretic was there--I think a Gnostic.
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Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 11:11 AM By Fr. M.P.
John Maguire wonders about excommunication "practicable in the face of large numbers of apostates." To be more accurate, there are a much larger number of self-excommunicated heretics, with the vernacular being "cafeteria Catholic." Accepting the very concept of "I pick and choose what I want" is heretical regardless of the specific choices a soul makes. That is in fact the Protestant process, condemned at the Council of Trent. We see many of them posting here in addition to the announcement by Shriver. An apostate is a Catholic who leaves the faith for another religion, e.g. becomes Protestant or Buddhist, etc. Numbers matter not. Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it, and right is right even if no one is doing it. I think that was St. Augustine. Excommunication is actually charitable because, if followed, it prevents a person from bringing more condemnation on his soul for sacrilegious Holy Communions, and it helps shield the faithful from harmful influences (the "shunning" factor), and is a wake up call to repentance. Given the state of the world, I think God will start to make a big move in 2009 to clean up the place, and it won't be a pretty sight, until we get to the period of peace mentioned at Fatima.
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Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 2:26 PM By Eileen
Father MP, My response to your Nov 25, 2008 11:11 am response to John Maguire.....AMEN!
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Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 7:03 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Fr. M.P. I wasn't wondering about excommunication as such; I was wondering about the practicability of the Pontifical Commission's requirement of formal declaration of apostasy to the episcopacy so to distinguish between one set of apostate declarants ("I reject all that stuff," said to whomsoever), and another set of apostate declarants (those who really, truly and deliberately renounce the Faith, in which case the defined form of that apostasy would be a formal declaration to the episcopate), and yet another set of apostates, those who proceed within the Church all the while keeping their apostasy *in pectore*.
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Posted Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:39 PM By JLS
Jesus does not make it so difficult as a complexity of loopholes. He requires understanding to come about through faith. He appeals to men's consciences ... but consciences which have chosen to follow Him. Hope is not meant to be wasted on finding loopholes in His Gospel ... so what then is the benefit of such loopholes for?
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Posted Wednesday, November 26, 2008 8:57 AM By Fr. M.P.
John Maguire, the only difference between heresy and apostasy in the Church now and centuries ago is really the way prelates have handled it. When prelates and priests are a major part of the problem, like in the Arian heresy, then you don't see much disciplinary action. Ditto today. Someone formally renounces the faith when they join another - whether announced or not. Someone formally becomes heretical when they obstinately reject Church dogmas, or think they can choose at will. Behavior makes it formal or not. A lack of a formal public declaration of said errors does not mean there is no formal error, only that there is no formal declaration of the formal error. But there will be a major event which will begin the process of cleansing - that of the dogma of the Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix of all Grace and Advocate. This separation of sheep from goats, those who will accept versus those modernists who will reject said dogma, will begin the painful process leading to the period of peace mentioned at Fatima. To quote Cardinal Ratzinger from an Oct 1, 2001 interview: " To begin with, the Church 'will be numerically reduced.' When I made this affirmation, I was overwhelmed with reproaches of pessimism. ... The process of numerical reduction, which we are experiencing today, will also have to be addressed precisely by exploring new ways of openness to the outside ... We must take note of the decrease in our lines but, likewise, we must continue to be an open Church." As Pope B16 he said "a smaller, purer church." Coming soon. Just watch.
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Posted Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:15 AM By Maria C
Thank you father M.P. for our post for John Maguire. I hope it helps.
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Posted Wednesday, December 03, 2008 3:43 PM By Almond Milk
Yes Fr. M.P. I am thankful that you are here to help correct the error of some that post here or just to even answer questions that many may have. God bless you
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Posted Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:19 PM By John F. Maguire
In reply to Fr. M.P.: No pope is wont to write in unqualified approval of declining membership in Christ's Church; and Pope Benedict XVI is not writing in that register; nor is he proposing a puritan-style purging of the Church in the name of a faux-traditionalist we-happy-few. At all events, I doubt that the New Order of the Mass can sustain a steep reduction in Church membership. I would mention an alternative perspective: Only the diocese-by-diocese restoration of the traditional Latin Mass can possibly sustain a steep reduction in Catholic numbers. Still, there is no forgetting that the traditional Latin Mass normally correlates with high rates of conversion and high rates of responsivity to priestly vocations. In short, the traditional Latin Mass correlates with the expansion of Church membership.
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Posted Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:43 AM By Grizzly
I love that Maria Shriver has the courage to tell the truth regarding her personal beliefs and how those relate to being a Catholic. It is time that thinking and rational beings stand up and separate spiritual beliefs from stale rhetoric. If you can't question, you don't have belief, you have brainwashing. Get a grip.
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